Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Achingly beautiful. Wow. Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Oh I love this one. Great album.KarolIt's a favourite of mine. And still the best among Gordon's works to me.Indeed. Incredible score. I'm also quite a big fan of his contributions in Master and Commander. Very unusual, highly effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I haven't heard it outside of film (Master and Commander), but Gordon's score was chilling in context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Its a score most soundtrack fans hated as the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Gordon, even with these few works under his belt, is a favourite of mine. His harmonic language, located in this no man's land between past and present, keeps my attention; the prototype of the modern Hollywood composer often fails miserably in that regard - even though i wearily accept that pleasing my musical sensibilities may not rate that high on the agenda. Take the following cue: a hardly essential romantic drama, the music (probably not much more than an afterthought laid on in post production) is minimalist, sweet and simple, and yet if you listen to this cue, the dramatic high point, there's real musical thought and craftmanship behind it. Out of a haunting violin soliloquy that slowly intensifies and finally releases the pleasant main theme, there is real dramatic breadth and a strong sense of storytelling (parts of it not unlike JNH's THE VILLAGE). Shame the guy does so little. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Of the two Zorro's this is my preferred without question.Why? Most of the cues re-appear in the sequel anyway, which sounds exactly like this and adds some new cool tracks on top. I re-listened the first ZORRO recently and found the second half rather disappointing, especially this long 13-minute whopper finale cue that hops from place to place lacking musical structure. Give me TRAIN over this any minute!To clarify: Legend is a sequel score that IMO doesn't improve on the groundwork laid in Mask. If I lay them side by side the parts that appear in both scores I will always prefer in Mask over Legend. I wouldn't call Legend lazy in this regard, quite the opposite, it's a good fun score, but Mask just keeps me entertained throughout. Even 'Leave No Witnesses' which you say has no direction is for me the perfect Horner action finale. The Train is awesome too but before that cue appears there's a bit too much uninteresting filler material. I don't have that issue with Mask. Besides you would prefer a score where he recycles bits and pieces over one where it's fresh and original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The Mask Of Zorro is a score I should love, but don't for some reason. There is something about that turns me off. Maybe it's the recording Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yes. There is a wonderful little spanish fanfare in LEGEND, as is the noble Statehood theme, both sadly getting backseat treatment. MASK has boring cues like 'The Mines' and i think i side with Stefan here: it's somehow middle-brow even when it's brimming with ideas. The theme is a rather weak kissin cousin to EL CID, the shakuhachi blasts seem off - it gets high marks for the sheer enthusiasm (no given with Horner) but it's a bit on the OK side.LEGEND may be no masterpiece, but there are little surprises and the swashbuckling even in minor cues, i. e., 'Just one drop of Nitro' is too much fun to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The Shakyhachi moments, coupled with the danger motif just make it sound like warmed over Willow on several occasions. And while the love theme/pop song idea worked well for Titanic, it just feels a bit too corny here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The best film score of 1999:Star Wars: The Phantom Menace - John Williams Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,018 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Not Angela's Ashes or even The Matrix?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 TPM is better then those Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,018 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I don't know to be honest. It has more interesting highlights but just as much aimless filler in between.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 More aimless then The Matrix's aimless dissonance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I will be the square one and say i prefer all 3 Goldsmith scores of that year to PHANTOM MENACE. It's written splendidly but there is a certain aimlessness about it that affects even the few set pieces (DOTF to me is a hokey piece of music). I even prefer the underscore that can be found on the ultimate edition because there is always something going on texturally that hints at greater things which sadly never come.Really the movie's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I agree. JW worked his ass off on a hollow, empty movie that gave him little to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,018 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 There is not a wasted note in there. And that has nothing to do with listenability actually. Just watch the film again and tell me I'm wrong.In TPM, a lot of the score (Coruscant, most of Tatooine) just kind of "is". They might as well leave some of those scenes unscored. It also doesn't seem to have any dramatic structure or thematic consequence. Sorry but this score is a mess. I rarely listen to it, it lost its appeal somewhere around 2001 for me.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 There is not a wasted note in there. And that has nothing to do with listeability actually. Just watch the film again and tell me I'm wrong.MATRIX, you mean? I adore its audacity but it's nothing i ever would put on. Don't agree about TPM, it has some of the best written filler music i have ever heard though of course it's in aid of a dramatically lousy movie. Still, 1999 was a great year. All of these composers put out something of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The Matrix, while being more spartan then its sequel scores is very much an example of style over substance music.Much ado about nothing Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,018 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 No, there is a very unique symbiosis between images and music in there. Somethat that was somewhat lost with two (otherwise very really good) sequel scores. I'm not talking about albums specifically, guys.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 EXPLORERS - GOLDSMITHI haven't gotten the expanded (but I listened to it) because I think this short album is perfect as it is and a superb presentation of all that Explorers has to offer.Once again it shows what an incredible creative genius this man was. Hardly a track goes by where something interesting happens. The themes are keepers and the synth additions a lot of fun.I'm also fond of the songs which bookend the album. Takes me back to that most perfect time full of memorable catchy tunes.As much as I love Williams and Horner, it has to be said Jerry has constantly written the most fun film scores for films that not always deserved it but were improved greatly by his input alone. publicist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Not Angela's Ashes or even The Matrix?KarolNah, I really like both of them but not that much. I think the balance between the calmer parts and the action is very good and the underscore is extremely well written, I never get bored of it, it always has interesting stuff going on even in the 'aimless' parts. By far my most listened score from the year. The Mummy is probably my second favorite score of 1999, I am also a fan of Snow on Falling Cedars. I almost forgot that Mulan was 1998, I almost mentioned it instead of The Mummy... Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,207 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The Mask Of Zorro is a score I should love, but don't for some reason. There is something about that turns me off. Maybe it's the recordingWhat's wrong with the recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I don't know. But there's something about it that turns me off. Rare for Rhodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The Matrix, while being more spartan then its sequel scores is very much an example of style over substance music.Much ado about nothingCare to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I could post a lengthy diatribe, but since its you, and you love filmtracks, i urge you to check CC's review.It's reflects my pov fairly well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I rather like the antiquated look of his site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Thirteen Days by Trevor JonesFar From Heaven by Elmer BernsteinThe Shawshank Redemption by Thomas NewmanThe Green Mile by Thomas NewmanThe Shipping News by Christopher Young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I could post a lengthy diatribe, but since its you, and you love filmtracks, i urge you to check CC's review.It's reflects my pov fairly wellNo, I'd like you to post a lengthy diatribe, because CC's negative comments ultimately land down to 'I CAN'T TAKE THE RELENTLESS DISSONANCE!" There is nothing there dismissing the score as style over substance, in fact in one paragraph he suggests disappointment at the score not sounding like the trailer cue "The Eyes of Truth" by Enigma (whereas the sequels score move closer to that sound). Shoe-horning that in would be asking for more style over substance!Fact is, THE MATRIX is an incredibly tightly wound and interconnected stand alone score. There are dozens of motifs and thematic cells--the haunting canon for high strings and flutes associated with the distortion of time; the fugato-style perpetuum mobile figures for strings and winds; the Trinity and Neo Love Theme; the famous 'clashing' horns and trumpets chords associated with reflections and duality; the chromatic canons for trumpets for the machines and Agents, Bugs and Docbots; the chromatic triplet motif for the Agents (often projected as a tone pyramid); the 16th note accumulating clusters for the fight sequences; and the minimalist 7/8 'fate' motif (C-D-Eb-C-F-C-G). Marian Schedenig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 BATMAN FOREVER - GOLDENTHALThis is just one giant mickey mouse scoring job, but in his particular exuberant style and gothic sensibilities and I find it absolutely totally awesome to listen to.I say mickey mouse because all Elliot seems to do is attach music to the particular moment in the scene, without making much sense in a narrative way.Yet he does it with so much grand themes and zany orchestral power it's impossible to be not impressed by it all. Even when it becomes a bit overbearing.The LLL presentation is excellent. I wasn't a fan of Batman Forever's album back in the day but since hearing this set I'm blown away by Goldenthal's work on it.His unique sound is greatly missed, I'd be happy to take just him to return to Hollywood to replace all the generic wannabe's.The Matrix, while being more spartan then its sequel scores is very much an example of style over substance music.Much ado about nothingI find it a very interesting score. Definitely not style over substance. Maybe in equal measures.I rather like the antiquated look of his site.I used to like it too but nowadays it just hurts my eyes. Luckily there's a printer friendly button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Sharply got there before I did.CC's review for that score remains his less insightful ones. But even there, he expresses his admiration for it, he just doesn't view it as a pleasant album experience. CC's reviews have always been geared more towards pleasant, tonal and accessible album presentations anyway. But jeer does he claim its a score of style over substance as you do.The Matrix stands among the most intelligent examples of film scoring, whether you like it on album or not. It's not just a matter of tying together post-modern concert trends with electronica and various other genres of the late 90s. But creating an entirely unique sound for the franchise that remains one of the most iconic and effective yet. That is more than what most film composers can claim to have done. On top of that, for the more traditionalists that look for themes, there are several motifs and thematic elements that Davis weaves together. But I'd genuinely like to hear why you dismiss it so easily. If you don't like the dissonance or the avant-garde nature of it, that's fine. But you haven't really provided any solid reasoning for the "style over substance" claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 You and Sharky are right on. Sounds like you're talking about the best score of 1999 actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I miss Goldenthal, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,207 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I don't know. But there's something about it that turns me off. Rare for RhodesHm. I haven't listened to it in a while, but I always rather liked it, and as far as I remember it sounds quite spectacular. The song is extremely syrupy of course, but I think it still works better than Titanic's.The first two Matrix scores are of course brilliant. The only boring bit of underscore in the first one is the source music for the restaurant scene, and that's basically inaudible even in the iso score.The Matrix stands among the most intelligent examples of film scoring, whether you like it on album or not. It's not just a matter of tying together post-modern concert trends with electronica and various other genres of the late 90s. But creating an entirely unique sound for the franchise that remains one of the most iconic and effective yet.I don't think it's all that unique. For films, yes. But assemble a concert programme out of 65% Kernis, 25% Adams and 10% Glass, and the Matrix score will fit in seamlessly. It's great the way it is, of course, but I think the emphasised techno blend in the sequel is more original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 There's a bit more to it than those three - I'd include Webern or Berg, Ligeti or Penderecki. But yeah it is a synthesis like most film music. He didn't invent the language from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 You're right of course Marian. I was just referring to how unique it was in film music. The sound is a clear amalgamation of the language of the post-modern concert hall. But that isn't to say you don't hear Davis' own voice shine. And the blend of the electronica is a unique trait too. Marian Schedenig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 There's a bit more to it than those three - I'd include Webern or Berg, Ligeti or Penderecki. But yeah it is a synthesis like most film music. He didn't invent the language from scratch.Along with Sessions, Gerhard, Searle, Druckman and a few other 50s/60s/70s Anglosphere composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 KK, I could make a long post about The Matrix score but in the end of the day its just a matter of personal taste I guess.It's good music, but not really the music I generally go for, or listen to for my enjoyment.Ive had various releases of the score and never really feel the urge to play it.I reconize that its complex, well composed music. It has a distinctive style and supports the film very well. But it's doesn't interest, move or involve me enough.I listen to selections from its sequel scores though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It doesn't move me either, but then, it's not the music I go to when I want to be moved. It's dense, psychotic, kinetic. The sequels have a few more moving or warm moments, and cool electronic crossovers, but are overall less interesting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I've never listened to any of them away from the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 There's nothing in the sequels that move me, whereas this does: The greatest film cue from 1999. Shades of Morricone's THE UNTOUCHABLES at 2:49. "I think I'll have a drink." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It's moving in the context of the film but it doesn't give me goosebumps on its own.Speaking of these scores, you mentioned them being recorded at WB. How do you know this/any photos or footage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It's moving in the sense that I find 'The Shawshank Redemption' from THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION MOVING. Maybe arousing it's a better term...Just looked the studio up... turns out I was wrong.Music composed, orchestrated and conducted by Don DavisRecorded at the Newman Scoring Stage, 20th Century Fox StudiosMusic scoring mixer Armin SteinerSynthesizers mixed by Larry MahFilm editor Zach StaenbergMusic editors Lori Eschler-Frystak, Jordan Corngold and Brenda Heinshttp://dondavis.net/films/matrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 That's what I thought, but it would have made sense at WB considering the studio. Just checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 What's your opinion on the Newman Scoring Stage? Too dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Steef, that's fair and totally understandable.Maybe arousing it's a better term...That's the perfect word I think. I find large portions of the score arousing. From those low woodwind ostinati in the opening titles to the "al tallone" triplets for the Agents, to the meditative Adams-esque minimalist layers in cues like "The Lafayette Mirror", I find myself nodding to a lot of those crazy moments.There's nothing in the sequels that move me, whereas this does:The greatest film cue from 1999. Shades of Morricone's THE UNTOUCHABLES at 2:49."I think I'll have a drink."I prefer this, excluding the whole Horner fantasy bit in the first minute or so: That last minute does it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The last few tracks of that OST are the ones I return too most often when it comes to music for this franchise. From Neodammerung to Navras.Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What's your opinion on the Newman Scoring Stage? Too dry?Not too dry but maybe lacking the same character that Sony and WB have. Of course nothing beats Todd-AO.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Scoring stage fetishism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Steef, that's fair and totally understandable.Maybe arousing it's a better term...That's the perfect word I think. I find large portions of the score arousing. From those low woodwind ostinati in the opening titles to the "al tallone" triplets for the Agents, to the meditative Adams-esque minimalist layers in cues like "The Lafayette Mirror", I find myself nodding to a lot of those crazy moments.There's nothing in the sequels that move me, whereas this does:The greatest film cue from 1999. Shades of Morricone's THE UNTOUCHABLES at 2:49."I think I'll have a drink."I prefer this, excluding the whole Horner fantasy bit in the first minute or so: That last minute does it for me.Forgotten about that. The three minutes are lovely (even if it's essentially the same idea in the cue I posted), but the earlier material is too sugary for me, and the kind of thing that turns me off the sequel scores. Too many big Hollywood, Wagnerian cliches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now