GAME OF THRONES

[Quintus 5,399]

"We have to start trusting each other." 

[Jay 37,368]

Lots of possibilities of where the Northern storyline will go next year!

 

And just when things are settled, Bran will show up to tell Jon he's a Targaryen and next in line for the throne and mix it all up again!

[Bilbo 3,709]

That was te best episode of the who series IMO. So well done in every respect and so much pay off. 

[Jay 37,368]

In the previous episode, Tyrion told Daenerys about how the Mad King hid wildfire under all the major parts of King's Landing including the through-ways, etc.  Since it took ~20 years for anybody to find it, do we think the little birds only found a stash under the Sept of Baelor but not any other stashes?  Or was the Sept's stash all that was left?  Or did they find it all, but stockpiled it all under the Sept to make the biggest possible explosion and now there's none left?

[Bilbo 3,709]

There's wildfire stashed all over the city isn't there?

[Jay 37,368]

That's... literally what I just said!

[Bilbo 3,709]

You were asking was there only stuff under the sept.

 

 

As far as I'm aware, there's wildfire all over the city still. 

[Jay 37,368]

That's... I know.... did you read my entire post?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Lots of possibilities of where the Northern storyline will go next year!

 

And just when things are settled, Bran will show up to tell Jon he's a Targaryen and next in line for the throne and mix it all up again!

 

Bran is now the Three Eyed Raven. Will he ever even return?

[Jay 37,368]

Why else did Benjen bring them back to the wall?

 

 

 

 

 

Where will the three dragons sleep during the journey west?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Maybe they won't need sleep

[Quintus 5,399]

Is Benjen undead? He looks like he's under some sort of Walker magic.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If you paid attention a few weeks ago you would have remembered he is undead, but the Children Of The Forest prevented a full conversion to a Zombie

[Quintus 5,399]

That's interesting. Nice one, I'll probably rewatch that moment again on YouTube. 

[Jay 37,368]

1 hour ago, Lonnegan said:

Is Benjen undead? He looks like he's under some sort of Walker magic.

 

You don't remember him telling Bran that the Children stuck dragonglass into his heart as he was dying and it brought him back to life?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I actually didn't remember that either.  A moment of lapsed attention can cost you with this show.  All the more reason to do a full rewatch before next season,

[Jay 37,368]

I think I will rewatch all six seasons this winter myself

 

 

 

Anyways here is the Benjen scene again

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La72fWRTHvI

 

Hmmm, why dont youtube videos embed anymore

 

 

[Jay 37,368]

Benioff and Weiss: There's only 10-15 episodes left in the show.

 

It’s two more seasons we’re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now. What Dan says is really true, but it’s not just trying not to outstay your welcome. We’re trying to tell one cohesive story with a beginning, middle and end. As Dan said, we’ve known the end for quite some time and we’re hurtling towards it. Those last images from the show that aired last night showed that. Daenerys is finally coming back to Westeros; Jon Snow is king of the North and Cersei is sitting on the Iron Throne. And we know the Night King is up there, waiting for all of them. The pieces are on the board now. Some of the pieces have been removed from the board and we are heading toward the end game. The thing that has excited us from the beginning, back to the way we pitched it to HBO is, it’s not supposed to be an ongoing show, where every season it’s trying to figure out new story lines. We wanted it to be one giant story, without padding it out to add an extra 10 hours, or because people are still watching it. We wanted to something where, if people watched it end to end, it would make sense as one continuous story. We’re definitely heading into the end game now.

 

No word yet on how many will air in 2017 and how many in 2018.

[Quintus 5,399]

Bah, that's possibly two shorter seasons with still the full 12 months gap in between then. If the story is entering its 'end game' from next year then it shouldn't be drawn out over 2 further years for audiences. That in itself can be damaging to momentum; if they are being honest when they say they're trying to wrap it all up satisfyingly. If it all kicks off next season then there will be an expectation of finality, at least from me. I don't want to see them return to Bag End. 

[crocodile 8,017]

9 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Bran is now the Three Eyed Raven. Will he ever even return?

It looks this way. It's really interesting to see how all the Ned Stark children growing and developing their talents. They're like Westeros' Avengers now... The Three Eyed Bran, The Sneaky Sansa, Creepy Assassin Arya and King Snoooow. They will all be back together.

 

Karol

[Bilbo 3,709]

58 minutes ago, crocodile said:

It looks this way. It's really interesting to see how all the Ned Stark children growing and developing their talents. They're like Westeros' Avengers now... The Three Eyed Bran, The Sneaky Sansa, Creepy Assassin Arya and King Snoooow. They will all be back together.

 

Karol

 

Theyre all immortal now in true MCU fashion!

[Incanus 5,715]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

It looks this way. It's really interesting to see how all the Ned Stark children growing and developing their talents. They're like Westeros' Avengers now... The Three Eyed Bran, The Sneaky Sansa, Creepy Assassin Arya and King Snoooow. They will all be back together.

 

Karol

Don't forget the most important Stark, Tony.

[crocodile 8,017]

They will end the show the same way Battlestar Galactica ended. Fast forward into the future... as Tony Stark and his Avengers prepare to face Frost Giants of Jotunheim!

 

Karol

[crumbs 14,317]

I hope they at least get to a nice rounded number like 75. I'm sure HBO will budge on budget, they would surely be pushing for another 20 episodes rather than 13.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The way the story is progressing I really don't see another 20 eps. 15 sounds about right.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Just caught up with this thread.

 

Great finale.

 

Everyone assumes Jon's lineage is now confirmed, but is it really? We now know who his mother is and that his father isn't Ned Stark (a potential bomb laid under all the alliances paid to "Jon Snow, son of Ned Stark" in the following scene), but Lyanna's whisper to Ned about who the baby's father is was entirely inaudible. I almost felt like they did a South Park switcheroo on us.

 

Great music this episode as well. It's a pity it took six damn seasons for the score to reach this level, but what we got was wonderful.

 

And I too understand the confusion about timelines. Jaime going from Riverrun to King's Landing must surely have taken some time. But then when he got to King's Landing, there was still smoke rising from the ruins of the Sept, so must have arrived not long after the events that opened the episode. It's fine for producers to come out and explain that not everything show runs entirely chronological, but I find the show's editing and storytelling doesn't help to make this clear.

 

I'm looking forward to the last two seasons!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

One thing very noticeable this season, since Martin's writings had been mostly surpassed is that the subtle political machinations of the earlier seasons are now completely gone.

The plotting and character motivations are now far more obvious and outspoken. For instance it's actually a bit out of character for Little Finger to quite brazenly reveal his naked ambition to sit on the Iron Throne.

 

So after all these years Uncle Benjen is back, and all he does is take Bran to a tree near the wall and pisses off. I assume there will be more?

 

I agree that Jon's lineage isnt stated outright. But it is heavily suggested. They seem to be gunning for Jon as the true King of Westeros, not just the North.

This would actually lend some dramatic weight to a resurrection that at this point has been nothing but an easily resolved cliffhanger.

[crocodile 8,017]

I actually don't think the score was that remarkable. It does help to srt the mood but the composition itself isn't really that impressive. It's just another Philip Glass/Korzeniowski/Zimmer combo. We've heard this stuff before. If you want to check out sonething bit more interesting, listen to Djawadi's Warcraft which has some nice fantasy moments, apart from generic action music.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wouldnt say the writing was extraordinary, but it was just right. Probably for the first time. It truly enhanced the episode without calling any undue attention to itself.

[Quintus 5,399]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

I actually don't think the score was that remarkable. It does help to srt the mood but the composition itself isn't really that impressive. 

 

Agreed. It has simply been elevated on this occasion because it's otherwise normally utter rubbish and instantly forgotten. No doubt Djawadi is bathing in the plaudits he's likely receiving for this meagre highlight though and taking it to mean his entire work on the show is somehow beloved by all. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He's the new John Williams!

[Incanus 5,715]

1 hour ago, Lonnegan said:

 

Agreed. It has simply been elevated on this occasion because it otherwise normally utter rubbish and instantly forgotten. No doubt Djawadi is bathing in the plaudits he's likely receiving for this meagre highlight though and taking it to mean his entire work on the show is somehow beloved by all. 

Quite.

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

5 hours ago, Lonnegan said:

Bah, that's possibly two shorter seasons with still the full 12 months gap in between then. If the story is entering its 'end game' from next year then it shouldn't be drawn out over 2 further years for audiences. 

 

They've found it increasingly difficult to get ten episodes produced on schedule, and expect the final stage to be the most demanding with the amount of post-production work that will be required. I think this is the main reason they've given for choosing to wrap it up in two smaller bursts.

[Quintus 5,399]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

I think I will rewatch all six seasons this winter myself

 

 

 

Anyways here is the Benjen scene again

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La72fWRTHvI

 

 

 

 

Cheers for the link. I don't think it's particularly implied that Benjen is changed in that scene, or that he is the living dead. To me it more just comes across that he was near 'death' due to injury until the Children saved him (and nursed him back to health).

[Jay 37,368]

8 hours ago, Lonnegan said:

Bah, that's possibly two shorter seasons with still the full 12 months gap in between then. If the story is entering its 'end game' from next year then it shouldn't be drawn out over 2 further years for audiences. That in itself can be damaging to momentum; if they are being honest when they say they're trying to wrap it all up satisfyingly. If it all kicks off next season then there will be an expectation of finality, at least from me. I don't want to see them return to Bag End. 

 

2 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

 

They've found it increasingly difficult to get ten episodes produced on schedule, and expect the final stage to be the most demanding with the amount of post-production work that will be required. I think this is the main reason they've given for choosing to wrap it up in two smaller bursts.

 

Exactly this.  So far they've managed to write, shoot, edit, and create special effects for 10 episodes every year, always premiering in March/April.  As they reach the end game, it takes longer to shoot then every before - with the more and more elaborate battles they've been including - and longer to post-produce than ever before - with all the special effects needed for dragons, white walkers, wights, cgi armies, etc.

 

So the choice is between:

 

-Still write shoot and produce 10 episodes, but the show won't be ready to premiere in April next year - it will be more like the fall sometime

or

-Write, shoot, and procude a smaller amount of episodes, in order to keep up the "a new season starts every April" schedule they've had since 2011.

 

IOW, it's going to take them as long to make the next 7 episodes as it took them to make any of the previous 10.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

7 hours ago, crocodile said:

I actually don't think the score was that remarkable. It does help to srt the mood but the composition itself isn't really that impressive. It's just another Philip Glass/Korzeniowski/Zimmer combo. We've heard this stuff before. If you want to check out sonething bit more interesting, listen to Djawadi's Warcraft which has some nice fantasy moments, apart from generic action music.

 

Karol

 

I think he was even using Zimmmer's own favorite piano and synth organ!

 

The Sept sequence was well scored though.  And between Pryce and Dormer realizing what was happening, quite haunting.  

[Jay 37,368]

7 hours ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

Everyone assumes Jon's lineage is now confirmed, but is it really? We now know who his mother is and that his father isn't Ned Stark (a potential bomb laid under all the alliances paid to "Jon Snow, son of Ned Stark" in the following scene), but Lyanna's whisper to Ned about who the baby's father is was entirely inaudible. I almost felt like they did a South Park switcheroo on us.

 

Yes, its confirmed.  The Tower of Joy isn't like "Lyanna Stark's favorite hiding spot" or something.  It's a tower way down south, in Dorne, by the Red Mountains, and was one of Prince Rhaegar's favorite places (it was him who named it The Tower Of Joy).

Furthermore, the whole point of the scene is not just "Hey Ned I'm dying, so take my baby will you?", but "Hey Ned, Robert is killing all Targaryen babies, so since my son here is Targaryen, you have to hide him from Robert too.  Promise me, Ned".  Honorable Ned kept his promise and lied to everyone, including Catelyn, and said the baby was his, to protect the child from Robert.  Don't forget, Robert had Gregor Clegane murder Rhaegar's other 2 children (before raping and murdering their mother too) and all other Targaryens died in the war apart from Viserys and Daenerys who escaped to Essos, and Aemon who remained Maester at Castle Black.

 

Further furthermore, the whole reason there was 3 Kingsguards outside the tower that Ned, Howland Reed, and their men had to fight against before he could even get up there was because the baby inside was Targaryen.  The Royal Kingsguard would have absolutely no reason to be there protecting Lyanna in the Tower if she got knocked up by some random.  No, they were there because Prince Rhaegar instructed them "no matter what is happening in the war, stay here and protect my wife Lyanna and my unborn child."  After all, if the child is a male (which he ended up being), he would be next in line for the Iron Throne if the Mad King, Rhaegar, and Aegon (Rhaegar's first son from Elia Martell) all died - which they eventually did.

 

 

 

This is why I think it was a big mistake to split up the Tower of Joy storyline over 2 episodes (which were 6 episode apart from each other at that) instead of including them both together at the same time.  Then it would have been more obvious to see Ned and Howland defeat Rheagar's Kingsguards and them go inside and find his baby right away.

 

 

In fact, I think it would have been better to show all this last season, just before Jon "died" !  Imagine it, Bran is training with the 3ER, he sees this whole Tower of Joy scene, the audience goes "holy shit!" as the baby's face transitions to Jon's face... as he's sitting thinking in his quarters after the Hardhome battle.  Then Olly comes in and tells him Benjen has returned, and he goes outside and is stabbed to death.  That would have been good - as soon as you learn Jon is actually king, he's dead!  Would have made his resurrection even more interesting, as this whole season we'd know he's King, even though he doesn't yet.  And they still could have saved the HODOR moment for this season.  And both seasons could have features Bran learning a lot more stuff.

Oh well.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I mean, Benioff/Weiss aren't writing this series like every viewer frequents message boards and Reddit trawling for Game of Thrones theories. The bombshell here isn't that Rhaegar is Jon's father, but that Jon's father isn't Ned. They're saving the Targaryen reveal for next season.

[Jay 37,368]

But it's already revealed.  Why else would Rhaegar's Kingsguard be there in the first place, protecting the tower, willing to fight Ned's men to the death to keep anyone out?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just using what has been in the show itself, Jon's parentage is implied but not explicit. I'm not saying they'll pull a quick one and someone else will be the father, but clearly they made the part of Lyanna's dialogue where she tells Ned the father inaudible for a reason. Not every viewer will have connected all the dots.

 

When the show wants to make something very explicit for the viewer, they ain't usually subtle.

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

I don't think that Lyanna mentioned the father (and I doubt that Ned would have to have been told who it was).

 

What she whispered was the name of the baby.

[Jay 37,368]

BTW, the reason why Dany's fleet was so massive is because it wasn't just Greyjoy ships + the ships she got from the other city's slave masters.  There were also Martell and Tyrell ships in the fleet!

 

Martell sigil: 

 

Tyrell sigil: 

 

And just because, Greyjoy sigil: 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

10 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Just using what has been in the show itself, Jon's parentage is implied but not explicit. I'm not saying they'll pull a quick one and someone else will be the father, but clearly they made the part of Lyanna's dialogue where she tells Ned the father inaudible for a reason. Not every viewer will have connected all the dots.

 

When the show wants to make something very explicit for the viewer, they ain't usually subtle.

 

I agree. Jason has long since read up on all the possible theories of the show because he has a knack for this sort of thing (OCD).

There will be many to whom the revelation of Jon's parentage was a complete surprise and possibly a shocking one.

It's good that GOT's writers seem to cater to the general public rather then just the nerds (I'm looking at you Doctor Who!)

[Jay 37,368]

6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Just using what has been in the show itself, Jon's parentage is implied but not explicit. I'm not saying they'll pull a quick one and someone else will be the father, but clearly they made the part of Lyanna's dialogue where she tells Ned the father inaudible for a reason. Not every viewer will have connected all the dots.

 

When the show wants to make something very explicit for the viewer, they ain't usually subtle.

 

She told Ned the name of the baby, which seems by be something like Aerys or Jaehaerys or something like that.  It's possible we'll find out next year, who knows.

 

 

1 minute ago, Glóin the Dark said:

I don't think that Lyanna mentioned the father (and I doubt that Ned would have to have been told who it was).

 

What she whispered was the name of the baby.

 

Everyone already knows who the father is guys.  Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna after choosing her as Queen of Love and Beauty at Tourney of Harrenhal instead of his own wife.  It's a story everyone knows and the reason Robert started Robert's Rebellion which ended up unseating the Mad King.  Lyanna was bethrothed to Robert but then ended up with Rhaegar instead.  She didn't bed down with anyone else!

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Everyone already knows who the father is guys.  Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna after choosing her as Queen of Love and Beauty at Tourney of Harrenhal instead of his own wife.  It's a story everyone knows and the reason Robert started Robert's Rebellion which ended up unseating the Mad King.  Lyanna was bethrothed to Robert but then ended up with Rhaegar instead.  She didn't bed down with anyone else!

 

Not sure if that's a response to my comment specifically; if so then, yes, that's what I meant by saying that Ned wouldn't have to have been told (i.e., he would have just known). My point was merely that it was the baby's name, not the father's, which Lyanna whispered.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jason is just being an ass again. He doesnt like alternate theories on stuff he delved deeply into.

[Jay 37,368]

Stefan.  Why would Rheagar's Kingsguard's be posted outside the Tower of Joy if Lyanna was not pregnant from Rhaegar?  What do you think, the Mad King raped her?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I never argued any of your points Jason. Just your behaviour seems a little bit over the top. Like you are personally insulted that not everyone got out of it what you got.

 

It's unbecoming, to be frank.

[Jay 37,368]

7 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

 

Not sure if that's a response to my comment specifically; if so then, yes, that's what I meant by saying that Ned wouldn't have to have been told (i.e., he would have just known). My point was merely that it was the baby's name, not the father's, which Lyanna whispered.

 

Right, exactly.  Ned went up there already knowing Lyanna and Rhaegar had been together for over a year (perhaps Ned already knew it was true love and not a kidnapping, I dunno).  There'd by no reason for Lyanna to say out loud "so I'm married to Rhegar, and here's our son".  Just by her saying "Here's my son, his name is ___", Ned already knows its Rhegar's son too - and already knows that Robert would have it killed if he knew it existed, which is why he pretended it was his own son, even though he knew his wife would hold it against him forever.

 

 

Interesting that way back in Season 1, before Jon left for the wall, Ned told Jon that he'd tell him who his mother was the next time he saw him.  I believe Ned - I think he thought that once Jon took the black, he'd be safe from Robert's wrath, much like how he let Aegon live up at Castle Black..... not to mention it was now 17 years later and Robert's hold on the crown was secure and they didn't have to worry about Targaryen usurpers any more (until they later find out Visery and Danaereys are active again).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The fact that we didnt hear the name out loud could suggest that Ned is the one who named him Jon, and that his real name is maybe of Targaryan origin, which would put the child at risk.