Which iconic theme do you prefer?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Mark and Jason can find out who the others are.....

[Trent B 337]

Mark and Jason can find out who the others are.....

That they could. Those who voted for Zimmer's "He's A Pirate" is a traitor to us. Just kidding.

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm not sure which recording you're referring to, Chaac, but I wouldn't want to hear that piece slowed down. It needs to be fast. As for that MV sound, I'm not sure how much you can get rid of that. Part of it is the way it's orchestrated and recorded, yes, but a big part of it is just endemic to the way it's written.

There's an excellent RPO performance available and its tempo is perfect. I think it's on iTunes.

If by RPO you mean the Prague recording, it's absolute shit. No one has successfully rerecorded Hans to date. Not even the man himself! That live album of his isn't very good.

I voted for He's A Pirate.

No, not Prague. I think it appears in Spotify as Main Themes (From "Pirates...") from the album Greatest Film Classics.

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm not sure which recording you're referring to, Chaac, but I wouldn't want to hear that piece slowed down. It needs to be fast. As for that MV sound, I'm not sure how much you can get rid of that. Part of it is the way it's orchestrated and recorded, yes, but a big part of it is just endemic to the way it's written.

There's an excellent RPO performance available and its tempo is perfect. I think it's on iTunes.

If by RPO you mean the Prague recording, it's absolute shit. No one has successfully rerecorded Hans to date. Not even the man himself! That live album of his isn't very good.

I voted for He's A Pirate.

ROYAL PHILARMONIC ORCHESTRA ie: the orchestra which recorded the LotR scores.

They know what they're doing.

[Datameister 2,056]

I'm sorry, but based on the samples, that sounds like yet another awful film score re-recordings compilation. EDIT: Actually, some of them sound good. Quite a mixed bag.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'll seek out the recordings. The problem with rerecording Hans, though, is that they don't take into account that the music isn't composed for orchestra, it's composed for synth and orchestra. So their recordings sound flat and hollow.

[Brónach 1,302]

Many Zimmer cues sound flat to me in their original form. I like many of his melodies a lot, though.

[Luke Skywalker 1,799]

I'll seek out the recordings. The problem with rerecording Hans, though, is that they don't take into account that the music isn't composed for orchestra, it's composed for synth and orchestra. So their recordings sound flat and hollow.

a good orchestrator could translate zimmer to full orchestra and make it sound correct.

ie: Williams' take (or his orchestrator's) on Vangelis' chariots of fire, vastly supperior to the original.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yeah, I didn't mean to say it's impossible, just that the rerecordings that exist now fail to achieve the same level of oomph.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm not sure which recording you're referring to, Chaac, but I wouldn't want to hear that piece slowed down. It needs to be fast. As for that MV sound, I'm not sure how much you can get rid of that. Part of it is the way it's orchestrated and recorded, yes, but a big part of it is just endemic to the way it's written.

There's an excellent RPO performance available and its tempo is perfect. I think it's on iTunes.

If by RPO you mean the Prague recording, it's absolute shit. No one has successfully rerecorded Hans to date. Not even the man himself! That live album of his isn't very good.

I voted for He's A Pirate.

ROYAL PHILARMONIC ORCHESTRA ie: the orchestra which recorded the LotR scores.

They know what they're doing.

But Nic Raine doesn't.

Everything he rearranges, becomes middle of the road. Too slow, slapdash performances, little to no passion, weak acoustics etc...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Nothing Iconic about zimmers crap

[Datameister 2,056]

Wrong answer. The debatable part is whether we like them, not whether other people do. His music appeals to a lot of people.

[indy4 155]

Easily Superman Theme, but I do enjoy listening to "He's a Pirate," as much as I recognize its unoriginality. It's a fun piece of music.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Wrong answer. The debatable part is whether we like them, not whether other people do. His music appeals to a lot of people.

+1

[Hlao-roo 389]

Wrong answer. The debatable part is whether we like them, not whether other people do. His music appeals to a lot of people.

Yes, but does his crap?

[Thor 7,559]

Nothing Iconic about zimmers crap

Whether it's iconic or not is not something you can decide. It either is or it isn't -- based on the extent to which is appears and is referenced in popular culture. So it is definitely iconic in that sense.

Whether you like it or not is another question altogether.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are being far to rational.

[Thor 7,559]

We could do with a little rationality now and then!

[fommes 154]

Yes but it's false iconic, isn't it? Play any Remote Control anthem in front of that pop culture crowd, and they'll shout out it's "He's a Pirate".

[crocodile 8,033]

The truth is the same applies to John Williams. People know the tunes, but often can't quite locate the source.

Karol

[Thor 7,559]

The truth is the same applies to John Williams. People know the tunes, but often can't quite locate the source.

Karol

Indeed. Something I experienced lately when I made a music quiz with, among other things, two Williams themes - SUPERMAN and STAR WARS. People confused them, as well as saying stuff like INDIANA JONES, 2001 and whatnot.

[fommes 154]

No doubt, but they were written 30 years ago. I don't think you had that confusion back in the 70s/80s.

Let's play the "He's a Pirate" thingy for some pop culture crowd 25 years from now. Quick, to the time machine mobile!

[Quintus 5,399]

JWFan is a freakin' merry-go-round of inane ramblings.

[crocodile 8,033]

Something I experienced lately when I made a music quiz with, among other things, two Williams themes - SUPERMAN and STAR WARS. People confused them, as well as saying stuff like INDIANA JONES, 2001 and whatnot.

Many people would even confuse JW with Zimmer. Or Edward Scissorhands with Star Wars. There is an orchestra in there after all. The only thing that we can glean from this is that there is a larger world out there and that we can't call things iconic based solely on the fact 10,000 people take them for granted. Most people don't care for the Great Renaissance of Film Music in the 70's any more than they care for the ever changing trends in fashion every year.

And those who do... well, they know these things anyway.

The real question should be: what ringtones are they using?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well the theme from Superman is basically redo of the Star Wars opening

[Sandor 798]

Well the theme from Superman is basically redo of the Star Wars opening

Why dance around it all the time? Just get it out man: you LOVE He's A Pirate and part of you hates to admit it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I always had a fondness for it.

[Sandor 798]

I always had a fondness for it.

There you go.

[gkgyver 1,646]

JWfan, a therapeutic place for people who need to come to terms with their bottled-up fondness for music other than John Williams'.

Wrong answer. The debatable part is whether we like them, not whether other people do. His music appeals to a lot of people.

Define "people".

[Quintus 5,399]

My definition of 'people' is those who don't give a flying fuck about what you might have to say

[gkgyver 1,646]

So, typical Remote Control fanboy:

[Quintus 5,399]

Big fan of the tv remote, yes.

[Sandor 798]

But in all seriousness: the reason I'm into film music is because I'm highly attracted to the combination of strong melodic writing AND profound, rich supporting arrangements/orchestrations. That's just me ok? If one of those components is lacking it doesn't really appeal to me. I love John Williams, Goldsmith, Morriconne, etc. because they are not only gifted composers on a pure melodic level, but equally interesting from an arranger's perspective.

The Superman Theme is strong on both fronts and that's why I prefer it all the way. He's A Pirate has strong melodic content, but its arrangement just doesn't do it for me. It's not the kind of film music I like, for the same reason I'm not into new age music.

Again; that's just me. Other film music fans have a broader perspective.

[Quintus 5,399]

Why do you feel the need to qualify your comments in such a stupid thread, Roald?

There's nothing to compare between these two tracks. Superman ANNIHILATES He's a Pirate on every level. Those who have voted otherwise are utterly clueless.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Superman is probably my least favourite heroic fanfare by John Williams. Give me Star Wars or especially Indiana Jones any day.

On the other hand, He's a Pirate is probably my favourite MV/RC theme.

But then of course Cutthroat Island blows it out of the water and then blows the the wreckage into smithereens and then blows the smithereens into oblivion.

[Sandor 798]

Why do you feel the need to qualify your comments in such a stupid thread, Roald?

There's nothing to compare between these two tracks. Superman ANNHILATES He's a Pirate on every level. Those who have voted otherwise are utterly clueless.

I'm just helping my friend Stefan out here. I know he's looking for the right perspective on this.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Nothing Iconic about zimmers crap

Whether it's iconic or not is not something you can decide. It either is or it isn't -- based on the extent to which is appears and is referenced in popular culture. So it is definitely iconic in that sense.

Whether you like it or not is another question altogether.

it's not iconnic, it's not everywhere, it's only being heard now because a 3 sequel is upon us.

to compare it with Superman is an insult to John's iconic Superhero score. It's superior to his star wars theme Stefan, and it's hardly a reworking of it. It says Superman in the music. Star Wars only says it when Bill Murray sings it.

Zimmer has never truly written a great piece of music, he's a hack and a terrible composer, just because people like him is only proof that people settle for mediocrity.

[Brónach 1,302]

For some reason I prefer many other heroic themes by Williams before Superman because they sound less triumphal and more adventurous, to me. Indiana Jones and Jurassic Park come to mind.

Other than that, the theme is awesome. But to me, what makes it awesome is the ostinato or the five notes -three notes melody (name?), more than the theme itself. The buildup makes the theme better.

[Thor 7,559]

it's not iconnic, it's not everywhere, it's only being heard now because a 3 sequel is upon us.

Well, I don't know how it is where you live, but in my experience, I've seen the theme appear on dance floors (in remix versions), cellphone ringtones, commercials, tracked into tv programs, sports arrangements etc. It's without question one of - if not THE - most famous film theme from the 2000s. It's far more prevalent than the SUPERMAN theme, which is also pretty ingrained in popular culture. Only time will tell if it will keep its iconic status.

Zimmer has never truly written a great piece of music, he's a hack and a terrible composer, just because people like him is only proof that people settle for mediocrity.

He, he...why don't you tell us what you REALLY feel, Joey?

Seriously, though, you're free to think whatever you want of him and his music. Personally, he's one of my favourite composers of all time, a brilliant musician who gets to the core of all the films he's scoring. I'm probably listening to more Zimmer these days than I do Williams. But I'm getting kinda tired of defending Zimmer in this place.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

I think with some proper orchestration the main theme of Pirates would be better. The barebones down to the melody of He's A Pirate simply has more potential and it's more catchy.

The Superman melody sounds a little awkward without anything else to it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Maybe I shouldn't have done, but I've been referring to the Superman March, when drawing 'comparison'.

[josefsuma 9]

He's pirate is song from Klaus Badelt ... or not? =-P

[Datameister 2,056]

It's officially credited to Badelt, but Zimmer was the one responsible for most of that score's themes, and the rest were highly derivative of his work anyway, and they were composed by people in his studio (Media Ventures), so it's basically a Zimmer product.

[tharpdevenport 4]

Hey, I got a poll, too! Which do you prefer:

A kick in the nuts?

or

a kiss?

[Thor 7,559]

I think with some proper orchestration the main theme of Pirates would be better. The barebones down to the melody of He's A Pirate simply has more potential and it's more catchy.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Zimmer's power anthem approach - of which POTC is part - is not based on classical symphonic composition, but more on a prog rock idiom that utilizes orchestra (both sampled and acoustic) as colour. So orchestrating it further would do it more harm than good, as if you were orchestrating a more traditional pop song. LSO tried that with their "LSO Plays Classic Rock" albums in the 80's, and while a few of them worked reasonably well, most of them were very cheesy. Basically because the compositions were not receptive to that type of arrangement.

What often DOES work, though, is arrangements more geared towards rock, pop and electronica. These are based on the ideology and style of the compositions' own terms.

[Quintus 5,399]

Hey, I got a poll, too! Which do you prefer:

A kick in the nuts?

or

a kiss?

[gkgyver 1,646]

Hey, I got a poll, too! Which do you prefer:

A kick in the nuts?

or

a kiss?

How about a kiss to the nuts?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

But I'm getting kinda tired of defending Zimmer in this place.

I gave up a looong time ago.

[Faleel 5,384]

I'm not sure which recording you're referring to, Chaac, but I wouldn't want to hear that piece slowed down. It needs to be fast. As for that MV sound, I'm not sure how much you can get rid of that. Part of it is the way it's orchestrated and recorded, yes, but a big part of it is just endemic to the way it's written.

There's an excellent RPO performance available and its tempo is perfect. I think it's on iTunes.

If by RPO you mean the Prague recording, it's absolute shit. No one has successfully rerecorded Hans to date. Not even the man himself! That live album of his isn't very good.

I voted for He's A Pirate.

ROYAL PHILARMONIC ORCHESTRA ie: the orchestra which recorded the LotR scores.

They know what they're doing.

Wrong orchestra, the LONDON philharmonic orchestra, recorded LOTR

[Quintus 5,399]

Oops. Honest mistake - I'd confused the two, my bad.

They still know what they're doing.