Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: It *is* ok to pick on an old movie. It's *not* ok to pick on people for speaking out against racism. Re "speaking to the choir", which I let slide earlier when I shouldn't have: To what choir am I preaching when I say the solution for racism begins with being aware of it to someone who, as far as I remember, has never spoken out against it on this board, but keeps speaking out against those who do? The "KKK whackjobs" aren't the problem. They're the tip of the iceberg, and the worst, and there's very little chance that even one of them will change because people speak out against racism. There's a small chance that wannabe KKKs might reconsider. But none of them are the real problem. The problem is majorities of the population (in many countries) electing racists and white supremacists not because they themselves are actively racist (or even consider themselves racist), but because they don't consider it a problem, or aren't aware of how frequently it still happens, because they refuse to listen when others speak out. There is no neutral stance on Racism - you're either against it, or you're for it or at the very least not bothered by the fact that it happens. And if you consider yourself not racist but can't bring yourself to speak out against it, at the very least stop fighting those who do. I'd just like to fight weirdos with a chip on their shoulders about old movies and feel like it's their life mission to censor existing works of art just because it features outdated standards that they regard as an outrage to their safe space. A freaky deaky trigger warning is just as baffling since there's nothing wrong with the movie, it's just a depiction of the Old South. I mean, it existed. Will it be erased from the collective consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said: I'd just like to fight weirdos with a chip on their shoulders about old movies and feel like it's their life mission to censor existing works of art just because it features outdated standards that they regard as an outrage to their safe space. Not a bad reason, but I bet it's also just because you're a little bit racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Quintus said: Not a bad reason, but I bet it's also just because you're a little bit racist. Aren't we all? I saw that movie Crash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,222 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said: ...there's nothing wrong with the movie, it's just a depiction of the Old South. It's a distortion of the Old South. There's no reason for anyone to have an objection to HBO issuing a disclaimer acknowledging that distortion (except, of course, someone who likes to see the distortion perpetuated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said: It's a distortion of the Old South. There's no reason for anyone to have an objection to HBO issuing a disclaimer acknowledging that distortion (except, of course, someone who likes to see the distortion perpetuated). Nobody cared for 80 years! This is just a power play. If someone is upset by Windy's content, they'd probably never watch it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,222 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said: Nobody cared for 80 years! That's not true at all. Some people cared about it in 1939, and I expect the number has been increasing ever since. It's just now got to a point where distributors don't feel they can ignore it. 1 minute ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said: If someone is upset by Windy's content, they'd probably never watch it anyway. Lots of people who know that Gone with the Wind is a racist film are interested in seeing it, for one reason or another. Some other people will know little or nothing about it before they watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I dunno, I simply watched it and thought "Farrk Vivien Leigh looks hot in this movie". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I was mostly thinking that it’s a 3.8-hour soap opera. Not the genre I would voluntarily choose to watch for such an extended period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I was mostly thinking that it’s a 3.8-hour soap opera. Not the genre I would voluntarily choose to watch for such an extended period of time. What are you talking about? The Return of the King? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,470 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Censoring Gone with the Wind is just the beginning. In a few years, it'll be like: "The Godfather was directed, starred, written, produced and scored by white people, mostly men, therefore it's a racist, sexist movie. You can't watch it. Now, go see Black Panther again". Chen G. and Unlucky Bastard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Just now, Edmilson said: Censoring Gone with the Wind is just the beginning. In a few years, it'll be like: "The Godfather was directed, starred, written, produced and scored by white people, mostly men, therefore it's a racist, sexist movie. You can't watch it. Now, go see Black Panther again". Yes, slippery slope. Hardly anyone thinks of that. They reckon we just live in the perpetual present and how things are now are how they will always be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Curiously enough, i halfway agree with both, Marian and PuhgreÞiviÞm. I'm less concerned with a disclaimer in front of 'Gone with the Wind' than i am with a bunch of guys banging a pot to shrillingly alarm us and thus reduce old books and movies to a footnote in a #blacklivesmatter campaign. Suddenly GWTW, that certainly is an achievement, will be only be mentioned as 'that racist movie' that shouldn't be watched (even if it can be watched). It's a thin line. @Marian Schedenig i don't think the Astrid Lindgren translation is quite right, as the n...word is a hostile, degrading slur, while the old german translation refers to the english 'negro' much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Why are these kids so angry at things like Gone With the Wind? I believe that truthfully it is very much a vocal minority and there's a lot of knee-jerk PR saving of face by trying to avoid controversy while most people could care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, publicist said: i don't think the Astrid Lindgren translation is quite right, as the n...word is a hostile, degrading slur, while the old german translation refers to the english 'negro' much more. You're of course right. Lindgren used the Swedish word neger, which directly translates into negro, and that word was commonly used in Scandinavia without rasistic meaning well into the 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 When I watched Gone With the Wind the racist aspect wasn’t terribly apparent to me. Birth of a Nation, though... 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: The Return of the King? It all comes down to genre preferences. It’s not that Gone With the Wind can or can’t hold its running time, it’s that it’s not a genre I enjoy watching for so long (other examples include Doctor Zhivago, Vidor’s War and Peace, Ryan’s Daughter). But an action-adventure fantasy movie? That I can watch for much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,222 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I first saw The Birth of a Nation in its UK TV premiere in the mid-90s. It was preceded by a short introduction acknowledging the film's racism as well as its cinematic merits. That didn't cause a problem as far as I could tell. Of course, there wasn't much in the way of social media at the time, so maybe I was just oblivious to the outraged mob denouncing the introduction as another case of political correctness gone mad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Birth of a Nation is a bit jarring. Again, I can acknowledge it’s merit (Griffiths was on another level) but the racism certainly creates a distancing effect. Intolerance always was the better film, anyway; it’s mind-blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,018 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Watched Spielberg's War of the Worlds last night after many many years. It's not a perfect film by any means. It feels rushed because it was actually rushed. But some of that energy works for the movie. I does lose some of it towards the end but I actually like the basement sequence. One of the aspects of the film that I really admire is the autumn/winter look and the natural ordinary down to earth feel. There's something eerie about it for some reason and it's nicely presented on the new UHD disc. I can forgive many of the film's flaws because I like that so much. The sound design is also top notch. And the score is great but mixed quite low. It's not a classic, and some of it doesn't quite work, but it's still better than most people think. Some of the images really stay with you. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 9 hours ago, crocodile said: but I actually like the basement sequence. Goddammit! Why does everyone see it as the highlight of the movie?! To me, it felt like early Shyamalan, the one that pats himself on the back, directed the basement sequence. There is something very self-conscious about it (and self-conscious in a way that I don't like). Anyway, I'm not a fan of the movie, I only like the beginning, before all hell breaks loose. KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 It's mentioned so often, it now has entered the Star Trek/Star Wars/LOTR pantheon of wtf? messageboard perennial favourites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 What's your favorite Shyamalan movie, pubs? Let's talk about it. Yep, it's that time of the year again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,551 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Mine is SIGNS. There, I said it. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The Sixth Sense This is not an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,551 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Yes, it is, and, no, it's not mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Mine is SIGNS. There, I said it. It certainly has the best score. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,551 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Yes. SIGNS and THE VILLAGE are two of JNH's very best. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I like Signs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The score to The Village never clicked with me. It's mostly boring background music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 War of the Worlds is one of Spielberg's top 3 worst movies IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 You mean it's one of his bottom three movies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I like to put really shit films (from otherwise great directors) on a pedestal so that I can point at them an sneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Alexcremers said: What's your favorite Shyamalan movie, pubs? Let's talk about it. Yep, it's that time of the year again. The Visit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,363 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Used Cars - car-lot rivalry forms the basis of this Kurt Russell and Jack Warden-starring black comedy, directed and co-written by Robert Zemeckis and exec-produced by Spielberg (back when him doing that actually meant something). Pretty funny. How I Spent My Summer Vacation - Mel Gibson ends up in a Mexican prison (which operates more like a ghetto) and 'The Gringo' sets about planning his escape, helping out a 10 year old he's befriended and setting the wheels of revenge in motion against his robbery partner who betrayed him. Grittier than the sort of thing you might have seen from Gibson in the 80s and 90s, this still has a nice streak of humour and well-staged action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said: How I Spent My Summer Vacation Is that the British title? I know it as Get the Gringo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, publicist said: The Visit Either that one or Unbreakable. I have to revisit The Visit before I can say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I'd say Bird Box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said: Grittier than the sort of thing you might have seen from Gibson in the 80s and 90s, this still has a nice streak of humour It was co-written by Gibson, to which I think you could attribute much of the humour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Did he incorporate his beaver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,207 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 18 hours ago, publicist said: @Marian Schedenig i don't think the Astrid Lindgren translation is quite right, as the n...word is a hostile, degrading slur, while the old german translation refers to the english 'negro' much more. 18 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: You're of course right. Lindgren used the Swedish word neger, which directly translates into negro, and that word was commonly used in Scandinavia without rasistic meaning well into the 2000s. True, I could have picked a better translation (and I don't know what word is used in the actual English translation, but I'm sure it's not "nigger"). "Neger" also wasn't seen as a slur in German at the time, but the bigger issues are that Pippi's (non-Black) father becomes the king of a Black tribe (in the 20th century, mind you) and Pippi says that she wants to have "negro servants" when she grows up. That last one seems bothersome even in its original context. In any case, pointing it out won't hurt anyone (and is doubly important since it's a children's book). Changing the words without changing what they're used for mainly tries to disguise the real issue in this case*. If it were written like this today, without reflection, I'd object to it, but as a product of its time, it is what it is. The same goes for GWTW (to be fair, I don't remember much of it other than that it was way too soapy for my taste; from what I remember, the racism that was there didn't seem unauthentic, though I also didn't get the impression that the production found anything wrong with it in contemporary terms). And in both cases, pointing out these issues won't hurt anyone (but not pointing them out might, in the long run). *) Like it's deliberately done in the German dub of Starship Troopers, where much of the original hardcore fascist satire is "toned down" and "normalised". The result is less hardcore, but still fascist, just not presented as satire anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said: Starship Troopers A great score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,207 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 18 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: I believe that truthfully it is very much a vocal minority and there's a lot of knee-jerk PR saving of face by trying to avoid controversy while most people could care less. That's exactly the problem minorities face when they're ignored. If you couldn't (!) care less, why complain? And if it does bother you that at least some people do care for minorities, then why does it? 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: A great score! And film. But I do consider the German dub dangerous. Because it really does feel like active fascist propaganda, and at the same time it's a fun and "cool" film. 16 hours ago, crocodile said: Watched Spielberg's War of the Worlds last night after many many years. It's not a perfect film by any means. It feels rushed because it was actually rushed. But some of that energy works for the movie. I does lose some of it towards the end but I actually like the basement sequence. One of the aspects of the film that I really admire is the autumn/winter look and the natural ordinary down to earth feel. There's something eerie about it for some reason and it's nicely presented on the new UHD disc. I can forgive many of the film's flaws because I like that so much. The sound design is also top notch. And the score is great but mixed quite low. It's not a classic, and some of it doesn't quite work, but it's still better than most people think. Some of the images really stay with you. I still think that the crowd panic scenes are an unqualified highlight. They remind me of The Last of Us (especially the prologue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Quintus said: War of the Worlds is one of Spielberg's top 3 worst movies IMO. I'm not the biggest fan of the movie, but the whole Intersection scene sequence is terrific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 45 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: And film. Really? I found it quite mediocre, but then I haven't seen it in about twenty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 41 minutes ago, Romão said: I'm not the biggest fan of the movie, but the whole Intersection scene sequence is terrific I really enjoy the opening salvo of the film and I think that's why I hate the movie so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,470 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The Village OST is missing some exquisitely beautiful cues. I'd say most of the best parts of the score aren't on the OST. This is why it needs an official expansion ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,551 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I find WAR OF THE WORLDS a quietly desperate, and quietly powerful, piece of work. Strip away all the fireworks, and you have a story of an average Joe, trying to reconnect with his children. He tries to hold the family together, but he realizes that he just doesn't know how. His half-assed attempts at befriending his son, are laughable, as are his efforts to discipline his daughter. In the end, and despite his attempts to hold on to him, he has to let his son go, even though he knows that he probably won't see him, again, which is a heartbreaking decision for any parent - to let them go their own way. I view WOTW, in the same way that I view SIGNS: a "long, dark night of the soul" allegory. The end scene of WOTW is muted, yet poignant. As someone who has worked with children (many of whom are estranged - for whatever reason - from their parents), I sympathise with all three main characters. WOTW might just be Spielberg's love-letter to his children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Naïve Old Fart said: He tries to hold the family together, but he realizes that he just doesn't know how. During the end of days and amidst unspeakable horror, all they had was each other. But for some strange and unknown reason, they didn't function as a family. Heck, they even couldn't stand being together and the brother wanders off. It's good that it worked for you, Richard, but I didn't buy it, not even for a dollar. Spielberg is a good salesman but he didn't won me over this time. Something was missing from his sales pitch (story). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,207 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Really? I found it quite mediocre, but then I haven't seen it in about twenty years. As a satire, I consider Starship Troopers to be almost on the same level as Planet of the Apes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Though i don't remember the dub being particularly whitewashing, in 1997 in german cinemas it quite came through what the movie was (is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,363 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 23 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Is that the British title? I know it as Get the Gringo. It is indeed. 22 hours ago, Chen G. said: It was co-written by Gibson, to which I think you could attribute much of the humour. Yup. His bits of narration are nicely sardonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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