The Classical Music Recommendation Thread

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Right, so now that my complete Pinnock DG set is here, I’ve fallen under the spell of box sets and am in need of guidance. I’m obviously thrilled to have this one and will work my way through it bit by bit, but now I’m worried that the box sets I would like to listen to in the future might go out of print. I’m not at all worried about owning them physically, but some of them, well, can’t be obtained through other means and I’m not going to be one of those people who pay €2000 on Discogs for a set that started out as €200.

 

My most pressing wish list is:

Gardiner on Erato and DG

Harnoncourt on Sony

I Musici on Philips (why is that one called the analogue years, though?) Is a digital set forthcoming?

Muti on Warner, though, again, is an opera one coming?

Norrington on Erato

Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG

 

Now, the question: Should I just bite the bullet and buy these one per month using my savings? I can totally afford it at this point, but will need to look at storing space. Or is it safe to space them out and not touch my savings, wait until Pinnock is done and take it from there? As far as I know, thee is no LLL-style out-of-print alert system for these sets.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

If the box has been out for a couple of years or more, there's a chance it will go OOP soon. Most of these boxes are quite new, but Harnoncourt/Sony is possibly already OOP. Regarding Norrington... are you sure it's worth the money?

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Yeah, dunno about Norrington... I just want to hear what all the fuss is about and am too lazy to go for individual things I guess...Some of his Stuttgart stuff definitely intrigues me, so that's a box to look forward to. Good point about the release dates, though.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Of course, most of Norrington's output is available on Spotify. 

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Of course, but I refuse to stream. Digital downloads or physical copies only.

[Schilkeman 964]

Well, I'm a freakazoid who goes out of my way to buy single releases, so take my opinion lightly, but that Gardiner set has probably the best cycle of Mozart operas and piano concertos going. It would be worth it just for those. I wish Phillips would do a set for him. A lot of good stuff there.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Philips/Decca need to do Hogwood and Marriner too. Marriner would be an instabuy.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

15 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Marriner would be an instabuy.

 

Oh yes. There was a big ASMF from Universal a few years ago, but that was only a selection.

 

 

16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Philips/Decca need to do Hogwood and Marriner too.

 

There's six Hogwood boxes of around 20 CDs each that recently went OOP.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Yeah, but I don't suppose that having these six would make up a complete set of his recordings for that label, right? I'd rather wait for one big one.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

31 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Yeah, but I don't suppose that having these six would make up a complete set of his recordings for that label, right? I'd rather wait for one big one.

 

I doubt they'll release one box with everything he did for Universal, as it would be huge.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Hmm, would it be more than that huge Karajan DG/Decca monster?

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Probably not, but I doubt Hogwood would get such a treatment.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

I'm wanting a decent recording of BELSHAZZAR'S FEAST.

I'm verging on the Andrew Preview/LSO, from the early 70s, with John Shirley Quirk, but I'm open to all opinions.

Any suggestions?

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Naxos has a good one at a decent price:

 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/apr04/Walton_Belshazzar_Naxos.htm

 

https://www.europadisc.co.uk/classical/34222/Walton_-_Belshazzar’s_Feast,_Crown_Imperial.htm

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I'm wanting a decent recording of BELSHAZZAR'S FEAST.

I'm verging on the Andrew Preview/LSO, from the early 70s, with John Shirley Quirk, but I'm open to all opinions.

Any suggestions?

As @Jurassic Shark suggested, the Naxos one is a good price and is a very fine recording. I also have it on Chandos with the RSNO conducted by Gibson which is also excellent. Our choir master at school wanted to do this but, despite our school choir being really pretty good, it was just a bit too challenging unfortunately so after a couple of run throughs we had to abandon the idea alas. A friend of mine was in our local youth orchestra and they did Walton's Symphony 1 and he said it was one the most difficult things he'd ever played. The choir had the same issue with Bernstein's Chichester Psalms - those syncopated rhythms are difficult when you're used to more trad choral music.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I'm wanting a decent recording of BELSHAZZAR'S FEAST.

I'm verging on the Andrew Preview/LSO, from the early 70s, with John Shirley Quirk, but I'm open to all opinions.

Any suggestions?

 

The Naxos is alright, but in the end it still made me go back to the first version I heard: Rattle & Hampson with Birmingham, nicely coupled with the 1st symphony:

 

Although I just realised that I also have a recording by Litton, Terfel, and Bournemouth. I think I've only listened to it once or twice, and the only memory I have of it is that I believe I though it was good. I'll give it another try, maybe I just never went back to it because I'd completely forgotten that I have it. It's coupled with the Mathieson-arranged suite from Henry V.

1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Our choir master at school wanted to do this but, despite our school choir being really pretty good, it was just a bit too challenging unfortunately so after a couple of run throughs we had to abandon the idea alas.

 

Singing Belshazzar would be a dream come true for me, but it's scale is totally out of scope for our choir. Currently we're 22 active singers, which is great for some works, but probably to small even for a piano & choir transcription of the massive Walton epic.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Where I come from it's common to combine choirs for large works.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

4 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

The Naxos is alright, but in the end it still made me go back to the first version I heard: Rattle & Hampson with Birmingham, nicely coupled with the 1st symphony:

 

Although I just realised that I also have a recording by Litton, Terfel, and Bournemouth. I think I've only listened to it once or twice, and the only memory I have of it is that I believe I though it was good. I'll give it another try, maybe I just never went back to it because I'd completely forgotten that I have it. It's coupled with the Mathieson-arranged suite from Henry V.

 

Singing Belshazzar would be a dream come true for me, but it's scale is totally out of scope for our choir. Currently we're 22 active singers, which is great for some works, but probably to small even for a piano & choir transcription of the massive Walton epic.

I second the recommendation of the Rattle version too. The kind of work he excels at. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Listened to the Litton, and it's very good as well (can't find a complete playlist on YouTube):

 

Both more intense and more reserved in different parts compared to the Rattle. Terfel has a clearer voice than Hampson, but overall Rattle still seems to have the more rounded approach and ultimately more drama and impact. This seems like a good second version if you already have the Rattle.

 

Interesting detail: My version has the same cover, except that the secondary works differ - mine has Crown Imperialand the above mentioned Henry V suite (sans choir, unfortunately, but with the battle music; the latter is nice to have, but because of the choir I still prefer the Davis version - or Marriner with Plummer if you want the long version). Bought for 2 quid at Music & Video Exchange near Notting Hill Gate.

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Where I come from it's common to combine choirs for large works.

 

Yes, and we've done that (though it's usually littered with artistic compromises, especially when it's not our own project). But I imagine that for the Walton, you'd have to combine two *large* choirs, plus a large orchestra. If anything, we could provide support for an existing project as a third choir.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

Ok, folks, regarding the Walton conundrum, I've decided upon...drum roll, please...

the Rattle/CBSO. It has the Symphony #1, as well, so I couldn't pass that up.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

2 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Ok, folks, regarding the Walton conundrum, I've decided upon...drum roll, please...

the Rattle/CBSO. It has the Symphony #1, as well, so I couldn't pass that up.

 

I'm sure it's a good choice! Is it still in print or are you buying a used copy?

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm sure it's a good choice! Is it still in print or are you buying a used copy?

 

I originally had a CDR copy from the library and later found a used version, years ago, when it seemed to be out of print. I think it came back later, because I used to see it for a regular price for a while, but it may well be OOP again by now.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

It's second hand, but I don't mind.

In my music-buying experience, there are, invariably, two types of music CDs that are well looked after: classical, and jazz.

Both genres seem to attract serious, and dedicated, collectors.

[Schilkeman 964]

6 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It's second hand, but I don't mind.

In my music-buying experience, there are, invariably, two types of music CDs that are well looked after: classical, and jazz.

Both genres seem to attract serious, and dedicated, collectors.

Speaking of which, is there a “recently listened to/recommended/purchased” jazz thread around here? Because I recently listen to a lot of jazz

[Trope 527]

Recommendations based on some recent listening:

 

- Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 5

- Britten: Four Sea Interludes

- Copland: Quiet City; An Outdoor Overture; The Tender Land Suite

- Pärt: Berlin Mass

- Adams: Shaker Loops

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

16 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Speaking of which, is there a “recently listened to/recommended/purchased” jazz thread around here? Because I recently listen to a lot of jazz

 

There is a "Jazz Thread", but you have to search for it.

[Schilkeman 964]

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

There is a "Jazz Thread", but you have to search for it.

It’s a shame it isn’t more popular around here, given JW’s skill at performing it, and how influential it is on his composing, even today.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Discovered this performance by Hans Vonk on an old CD my dad has. Can't get over the energy at 0:34.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

How does it compare to Marriner's take on his album of Mozart overtures, or on his complete recording on Philips?

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

I still think it's hard to beat Jacobs's energy:

Those fortepianos!

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Then I raise with this:

 

 

 

Btw, anybody familiar with the 30CD Bayreuth Edition of Wagner operas?

 

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/the-bayreuth-edition/hnum/10661704

 

@Marian Schedenig

@Chen G.

@Nick1Ø66

[Chen G. 3,950]

Not as such, but I'm familiar with a lot of the performances its comprised of: a very fine Tristan, a very fine (although bizarrely-produced) Lohengrin, and I remember enjoying the first act of this Walkure.

 

By chance - and to help further the Wagnerian hold on this place  - I was enjoying this pretty good Tristan: 

 

 

Interesting to compare it to the Mehta from a few pages early: I prefered Mehta's conducting, but this has a better Brangane and a far, far better Tristan, and the production is much better. Stemme is excellent, but my heart belongs to Meier in this role, wild top notes be damned!

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Not as such, but I'm familiar with a lot of the performances its comprised of: a very fine Tristan, a very fine (although bizarrely-produced) Lohengrin, and I remember enjoying the first act of this Walkure.

 

Thanks. The performances seems to have gotten quite mixed reviews.

[Chen G. 3,950]

5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The performances seems to have gotten quite mixed reviews.

 

I mean, its hard to find a production that's without fault nowadays. I find the "rats" Lohengrin utterly bizarre, but I'm a simple man, and having Annette Dasch there...

 

 

The Walkure has the odd quirk of putting Wotan on the scene in the first act. I'm fine with the incest, but when the father is activelly acting as matchmaker...

 

I guess my point is, if the musicianship and drama are good enough, they supercede the production, at least for me.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Well, with this box I won't get annoyed by any visuals...

[Chen G. 3,950]

My own position is that music-drama is made to be watched, rather than purely listened to...

 

The Mehta Tristan is a great example: Meier was never as succesful on recordings as she was on video. Her sound, in and of itself, was not that attractive. But she was so compelling on the stage, one felt one had watched a great Shakespeare performance.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

My own position is that music-drama is made to be watched, rather than purely listened to...

 

I'm inclined to agree, but sometimes you don't have the time to reserve your eyes in addition to your ears for four hours...

[Chen G. 3,950]

I'm as guilty of this as the next man, when I listen to Wagner while doing work... But its usually from a production I already saw, so I have the visuals in my mind's eye...

 

I think a great example of this is the Centenary Ring: nobody will pick those Walsung twins as ideal for a recording, but as the complete package, I don't think there's been a better Siegmund and Sieglinde before or since. Once you have them in your head, though, you can just listen to it.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Too bad the blu-rays of these performances are so expensive.

[Chen G. 3,950]

Yeah,  assuming they were the Blu-rays I thought you were JWFan's Top Wagnerian! 

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Hehe, the big box is "only" CDs. 

 

Have you seen this Met production from about ten years ago? 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Then I raise with this:

 

 

Very energetic, but a touch too… Romantic-traditional for my used-to-Jacobs ears? There's something about Jacobs's lean period ensemble that makes it sound like a band

 

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Btw, anybody familiar with the 30CD Bayreuth Edition of Wagner operas?

 

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/the-bayreuth-edition/hnum/10661704

 

Familiar with quite a few of the names, but none of the recordings. I'm generally sceptical of these types of box sets that don't have a unifying artistic vision. Sure, there's a certain continuity to performances by the same orchestra, but usually big name conductors make a significant difference (or they don't deserve their big name, I suppose), and in the case of opera of course the singers are another factor. It's confusing enough to have a connected Ring cycle with different Brünnhildes, or Siegfrieds, or Wotans. But the concept of a set of Wagner operas (beyond the Ring) by entirely different conductors is something I don't quite trust.

 

I have heard several of the performers in similar roles in Vienna over the years. During the 00s, Watson was one of the Brünnhildes in the previous Ring staging at State Opera. From what I remember she was… serviceable.

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

My own position is that music-drama is made to be watched, rather than purely listened to...

 

Ain't nobody got the time for that. Well, not always. I certainly recommend seeing an opera at least once if either the story or the staging are worthy, and I've seen the whole Ring live multiple times and before COVID used to attend a Rosenkavalier and an Ariadne once almost every year. But it also helps being able to listen to it without devoting an entire evening to doing nothing else, or even to let the music and lyrics (if you can follow them) do their own staging in your head. I've *heard* the Ring much more often than I've seen it, and after some 20 years I'm still discovering it. If I had a rule of only *watching* it, it'd take me a lifetime to get to where I'm now, and a second one to go beyond that.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

12 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

How does it compare to Marriner's take on his album of Mozart overtures, or on his complete recording on Philips?

No idea. Is this complete overtures album also on Philips? (Still waiting full of excitement for that big box.)

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

1 minute ago, bollemanneke said:

No idea. Is this complete overtures album also on Philips? (Still waiting full of excitement for that big box.)

 

It's on EMI. Not exactly complete, but it has the most well known overtures.

 

 

[Chen G. 3,950]

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Have you seen this Met production from about ten years ago? 

 

 

I have, its a mixed-bag. Chintzy staging and costumes, okay conducting, and a variable cast: an expectedly-passable Siegfried notwithstanding, I like the main roles (Wotan, Brunnhilde, Alberich) well enough, but the smaller roles vary. The Gibichungs are pretty good in this, as far as I can remember!

[Brónach 1,302]

12 hours ago, Chen G. said:

My own position is that music-drama is made to be watched, rather than purely listened to...

 

i want to watch with subtitles and i don't know where i'm getting into

 

but i also want recordings. why choose.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

I want to hear recordings with subtitles!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

Eejit.

[Chen G. 3,950]

3 hours ago, Brónach said:

i want to watch with subtitles and i don't know where i'm getting into

 

There are lots of operas on video with subtitles, especially Wagner. The Rattle Tristan I shared had subtitles. For a begginer, I'd go with either a subtitled Lohengrin like this one:

 

 

Or the first act of Die Walkure on its own (its often performed by itself as a concert). I actually think starting with a non-staged performance would be less distracting, and I really like this one:

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The Gibichungs

 

What?