So Ridley Scott is directing a Prometheus sequel... (The official Alien: Covenant Thread)

[Hurmm 91]

Not just that, he seems to have sped up the life cycle of the alien - the chestburster now bursts out after what feels like an hour or so. And it is immediately vicious like a Rottweiler, and grows to full size in no amount of time at all. In the original, the chestburster was a helpless little thing that was probably in its most vulnerable state, and you get the feeling that if the crew weren't so shell shocked at John Hurt's open chest they could have killed it. And even though it grows quick, there is still a sense of a passage of time. 

 

Covenant just bulldozes through it in a hurry. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

10 minutes ago, RPurton said:

What made Alien and Aliens so effective was how the Xenomorphs were used and shown - we mainly see them only when the characters can, or off screen. As soon as you flat-out have them in full view and moving around, they lose most, if not all of what makes them terrifying.

 

Back in 1979-86, audiences didn't really care about seeing the creature/s. They just wanted a good scare and thrill. But today, studios feel under pressure to show everything so fanboy audiences feel like they get their money's worth.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Back then, the best look you got at the aliens was the Kenner toys.

[Arpy 4,145]

Just now, Selina Kyle said:

Back then, the best look you got at the aliens was the Kenner toys.

They're probably better than the real Xenomorph suits

[Naïve Old Fart 9,557]

Originally, the was meant to be a fourth section of the life-cycle, in between chest burster, and full grown xenomorph. That, I'd like to see.

[crocodile 8,020]

7 hours ago, Hurmm said:

 

So did you think this was better than Prometheus? I think it was marginally better, maybe.

 

"Marginally" and "maybe" are two good words indeed. In some respects it might be. Ultimately, though, this film is very much a fan-service non-effort that tries to please everybody and that actually makes it worse than Prometheus. So I don't know...

 

What I also find to be quite strange is that we spend a lot of time in the first part of the film meeting the characters and learning some stuff about their relationships. But... it doesn't really ever pay off in any way. Nor does it make you care. Doesn't really matter who doesn't like whom and for whatever reason. Completely irrelevant to the plot it seems and they spend almost an entire hour setting it up.

 

And why, on Earth (pun!), wouldn't they be wearing space suit while exploring this new planet they know nothing about? So much of this film doesn't make any sense. Ridley Scott seems to think scientists are the biggest morons out there, based on those two films.

 

Karol

[Nick1Ø66 4,727]

18 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

The franchise's been worn out since the third film.

 

Aliens took the universe and story into a completely different direction, and that's why it worked. But all the sequels after that have been retreads of the original film, repeating the same pattern with little to no (interesting) variation.

 

All the films since Aliens have sucked to one degree or another. I'd say Prometheus is the best of that lot since it tried to do something different, but that's not saying much.

 

That said, I haven't seen the new film yet, though my hopes aren't high (though happily I think things are looking up for Blade Runner 2049).

[Thor 7,533]

*sigh*

 

Someone wake me up when there's a positive post on COVENANT.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Are you certain you'll live that long?

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

I liked the film....

 

Anyway it feels like a third film in a trilogy...as if we were missing part ii.

[crocodile 8,020]

13 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I liked the film....

 

Anyway it feels like a third film in a trilogy...as if we were missing part ii.

There it is.

 

 

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

On 5/12/2017 at 6:12 PM, Godzilla said:

Is it as bad as Independence Day Resurgence?

 

Compared to Independence Day: Resurgence, Alien: Covenant is probably better than the original Alien.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It turned out pretty good!

[crumbs 14,320]

I'm definitely interested in discussing Covenant.

 

BIG SPOILERS AHEAD (do we need to hide these?)

 

I saw it last night and truthfully... and I'm not yet sure whether I liked it or not. Like others, I need to stew on it for a few days because there's a lot to take in. Suffice to say, that ending is incredibly dark.

Spoiler

You sort of expect the David/Walter swap to happen as soon as David decides to cut his hair, but it still comes as a shock by the end (despite the behavioral clues that something's changed to Walter).

 

Spoiler

 

That he now has 2000 helpless humans at his disposal for xeno-experimentation is about as dark an ending as I can remember Ridley doing. You knew something horrible had to go wrong on the Covenant; chronologically, the colony mission had to fail because the events in this film were clearly never reported back to Earth (although there's still debate over whether Ash/Weyland knew about the xenomorph's existence pre-Alien).

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

My theory for Prometheus 3: these 2000 colonists will inevitably become the thousands of eggs in the derelict ship on LV-426. Oregai 6 (or whatever their destination is called) will be terraformed by David into LV-426. By the time we open the next film, most of the colonists will be dead and our main characters will probably come from a hypersleep malfunction that sees them wake up before David can mutate them. At some point, David will probably stumble upon another Engineer outpost and they will steal his eggs (bringing the cycle of creation full-circle -- Engineers > Humans > Androids > Xenomorphs)

 

Spoiler

 

Also, that med-bay sequence was as thrilling as you could expect. Ridley's direction was in superb form, which absolutely delivered on the gore, brutality and tension. Overall I thought the film's direction was good, but the visuals were a bit dark. There's so much great production design we just couldn't see due to the visual style.

 

 

Spoiler

Also, very disappointed that nothing really came of Shaw's story, other than vagueness about her ultimate demise (was that her vivisected on the table in David's laboratory?) 

 

Spoiler

David's line to Daniels, "I'm going to do to you exactly what I did to her," leads me to believe Shaw was a failed Xeno experiment and Daniels will be V2 of whatever David was trying to create (surely the inevitable outcome here is a Queen?) Perhaps we will see exactly what hapened between Shaw & David at the start of the next film?

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Spoiler

 

After all the thrashing this movie's received so far, I was expecting the worst. But it turned out to be a fascinating odyssey into creation, paternalism, and continues David's Pinocchio-like story into some dark and unimaginable directions.

 

It's like he's accepted what he is, resents humanity and the engineers, therefore "destroying God", and creates his own abomination, harvesting humans to create his own master race. He's a very twisted and disturbed android who draws like HR Giger!

 

This is all getting too theological for my liking, but is David the Alien universe's figurative equivalent of the Devil? He wants to harvest humans, destroy the creators, murdered the only one who showed any care for him (in contrast to Weyland, who just wanted his damn tea and treated him like a house servant).

 

 

[crumbs 14,320]

I loved that moment with the tea. Even amongst all the mayhem and blood, Ridley still delivers lots of interesting sci-fi pondering. I was worried the film would jettison all the interesting stuff in favour of gore, but it really delivers on both fronts.

 

The trilogy ultimately feels like David's story. That he's grown

Spoiler

to disdain humanity and now seeks to destroy us

is an interesting clarification of direction from his murkier motivations in Prometheus. I can't wait to read the theories on his apparent "love" of Shaw,

Spoiler

despite clearly murdering her.

Is he showing feelings of guilt or was it all an elaborate ruse to convince others of his story? We know now that he's capable of lying, as evidenced by his "it's perfectly safe" line about the eggs (he was just vague about things in Prometheus but never actually lied), so it seems like he's becoming sentient?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Spoiler

Yeah I wondered why he carved a gravestone for her. When her corpse actually does show up, it reminded me of Michael Shannon in Batman vs Superman, where he's there, but not there - maybe it was a dummy of the actor?

 

And David seems to love the aliens because they're his creations (akin to Satan's fallen angel army), but also willing to sacrifice one of them to maintain his facade as Walter.

 

Is the next film 100% confirmed and in production or are we to expect several more years of development hell that's been a curse for these movies?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,557]

Spoiler

Made you look 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

A big game changer in Alien: Covenant is 

Spoiler

this is finally the movie that completely contradicts the AVP movies. People kept saying Prometheus already did, but it didn't really. Peter Weyland might have been Charles Weyland's grandson for all we knew. And the protoalien at the end of Prometheus wasn't some declaration that those AVP movies no longer exist.

 

But David's creation of the xenomorphs as a byproduct of Engineers, Elizabeth Shaw and the bioweapon goo completely knocks the AVP movies off the shelf.

 

Unless of course David had knowledge of the incidents in Antarctica and that small town in the US and tried to recreate the creatures as described in historical records.

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Ridley Scott talks Alien: Covenant sequel, 'Alien: Awakening', filming begins in 14 months!

 

If he can replicate the care and high quality he put into Alien: Covenant, I'll be so glad!

[A24 4,349]

Drax's new passion! First it was Trump! Then it was The Fast And The Furious! Now it's Alien Covenant.

 

 

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yule luv it!

[crumbs 14,320]

There were some extremely spoilery set leaks a few days before the international release. This particular element of the film was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment in the final cut, so for anyone curious about exactly WTF happened to a certain character... behold:

 

WARNING: HUGE SPOILER

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

I don't remember seeing all that alien gunk coming out of Shaw's head in the final film, but it was such a random and fast shot among all the chaos in the third act, I couldn't actually process what I'd seen. Was this how she looked in the final film? I remember her entire body being vivisected as well, further proving that David murdered her and used her for experimentation.

 

You can actually see the film version of this in the theatrical trailer, if you look closely:

 

Spoiler

 

And if anyone thinks this looks familiar, here's the Giger artwork that clearly inspired it:

 

Spoiler

 

[firasd 1]

I thought it was pretty good. I actually liked Prometheus (although it was very ambiguous) so I like that Fassbender and the themes related to him are back. But this tim the plot is tighter and leaves fewer open-ended questions.

 

I was actually worried from the trailers that this would instead just be a rehash of Alien jump-scares but (although scary) they aren't the point of the movie.

 

I've also been thinking of quotes from the movie and the music used as motifs in it... might watch it again. Is it great film-making? No. But it has enough of flashes of attempted excellence.

[crumbs 14,320]

Just in regards to my post above, from reading around the interwebs it appears:

Spoiler

the version of Shaw's body in the final cut is actually normal, human Shaw. For whatever reason, Ridley removed those Xeno elements from her head in the final version of the film. Either he found it too grotesque or wanted to leave Shaw's fate more ambiguous? The Xeno elements are an instant giveaway that David murdered and fucked with her DNA, while the final cut never explicitly explains what happened to Shaw after the bombing sequence (the closest we come is David's line to Daniels, "I'm going to do to you what I did to her.")

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Spoiler

Dumb broad should never have sown his head back on.

 

[crumbs 14,320]

I'm guessing she needed David to control the Juggernaut ship and pilot it towards the Engineer homeworld. She didn't have much choice but to trust him, unless she wanted to remain stranded on that last planet.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

5 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

5 hours ago, crumbs said:

Just in regards to my post above, from reading around the interwebs it appears:

  Reveal hidden contents

the version of Shaw's body in the final cut is actually normal, human Shaw. For whatever reason, Ridley removed those Xeno elements from her head in the final version of the film. Either he found it too grotesque or wanted to leave Shaw's fate more ambiguous? The Xeno elements are an instant giveaway that David murdered and fucked with her DNA, while the final cut never explicitly explains what happened to Shaw after the bombing sequence (the closest we come is David's line to Daniels, "I'm going to do to you what I did to her.")

 

 

As far as I can remember, these elements did appear in the final film.

 

Spoiler

I remember thinking "What's that around her head?" when that shot was shown.

 

[Thor 7,533]

Spoiler

The laboratory scenes are where the film is close to ALIEN: RESSURECTION. Love it!

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

  Hide contents

The laboratory scenes are where the film is close to ALIEN: RESSURECTION. Love it!

 

 

Spoiler

Reminded me of Dr Mengele's lab!

 

[A24 4,349]

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I just pre-ordered the soundtrack, the novelisation, and the art and making of book. Can't wait to hear this on album.

[A24 4,349]

Interesting review. 

 

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170505-film-review-is-alien-covenant-as-good-as-the-original

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Hmm, I guess I hate the movie now.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

And The Bold and the Beautiful!

[Thor 7,533]

I'm relieved to see that, unlike here, the first responses to the film over on FSM (which is almost as 'grouchy' as this place) are positive. I've just now come back from my second viewing, and my love of the film was cemented. The small 'issues' I have are mostly cosmetic.

 

OK, gettin' down to writing! There's a LOT to cover here, both the deeper philosophical issues and the 'surface' values.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,533]

Are we reading the same thread? I've mostly seen negative replies over the last two pages -- both from people who HAVE seen it, and, amazingly, those who have not.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He might not know I'm Drax.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Hurmm 91]

I thought the android scenes and themes were well done too, and were easily the best part of the film. And yes, the action setpiece at the end was a rushed condensing of the second half of the Alien movie without any of its quality. It felt like the movie at as trying to emulate the surprise second endings from the first two movies (xenomorph on escape shuttle and alien queen slashing Bishop in half), but this just felt flat, because honestly no one thought the movie had ended by then. 

 

I think part of what makes David's story more 'grand' is that his machinations involved something as notorious and iconic to audiences, which then kind of imbues a certain gravitas to the whole back story. Even if we didn't want to see the origin of the xenomorph, the very act of surrounding the his evil deeds with it provides the proceedings with a certain grandiose. 

 

Ok the flip side, it strips the alien of its unquantifiable mystique. Zero sum game. 

[A24 4,349]

About the BBC review, the thing I find interesting is how the crew of Covenant belongs in a modern blockbuster where characters constantly talk about themselves (their dreams, their hopes) while in Alien you knew nothing except that they wanted more bonus. I haven't seen Covenant but I already know that it's going to bother me.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

2 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

About the BBC review, the thing I find interesting is how the crew of Covenant belongs in a modern blockbuster where characters constantly talk about themselves (their dreams, their hopes) while in Alien you knew nothing except that they wanted more bonus. I haven't seen Covenant but I already know that it's going to bother me.

 

Dan O'Bannon talked about this in the 2003 Alien commentary, saying he didn't write back stories for any of the characters because he didn't care about any of that and it wasn't relevant.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

33 minutes ago, Thor said:

I'm relieved to see that, unlike here, the first responses to the film over on FSM (which is almost as 'grouchy' as this place) are positive. I've just now come back from my second viewing, and my love of the film was cemented. 

 

Translation: The more you guys say you hate it, the more my steely resolve to vocally love it will develop. For no particular reason other than to be defiant. 

[A24 4,349]

3 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

 

Dan O'Bannon talked about this in the 2003 Alien commentary, saying he didn't write back stories for any of the characters because he didn't care about any of that and it wasn't relevant.

 

And he's a 100% right. It's way more interesting to learn about characters by their actions then by bits of dialogue.