Brónach 1,302 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Well, looking at TDKR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 It's sort of a different process, because Hans is there from the beginning. Well John is too, but I honestly don't think he's as integral to the filmmaking process as he is to simply the scoring process, if that makes sense.In the case of Nolan and Zimmer, they start discussing music and its function even before filming begins. So when it ultimately comes time to record and spot, most of the "handing over" has already taken place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 In the case of Nolan and Zimmer, they start discussing music and its function even before filming begins.And they still come up with scores like TDKR. What's the point of those discussions if it still results in a score like TDKR? They might as well not have a discussion.That a discussion took place earlier doesn't lend credence to a score. The proof of the pudding is in the eating as is the proof of the music in the listening. And based on that evidence, it just sounds like a load of worthless bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 To you. The fact that you think the music doesn't synch with the visuals in Nolan's Batman trilogy is proof that you probably aren't all that familiar with them.I'll be the first one to say that I felt Man Of Steel truly functioned as wallpaper in the film, but Zimmer haters have been saying that for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Actually MOS's score stood out as annoying, TDK scores didn't. They did their job and weren't obtrusive.At times I felt like I was watching a Sci-Fi Channel movie with a big budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 In the case of Nolan and Zimmer, they start discussing music and its function even before filming begins.And they still come up with scores like TDKR. What's the point of those discussions if it still results in a score like TDKR? They might as well not have a discussion.That a discussion took place earlier doesn't lend credence to a score. The proof of the pudding is in the eating as is the proof of the music in the listening. And based on that evidence, it just sounds like a load of worthless bollocks. I don't think Nolan is to blame about the stylistic choices of Zimmer's latest. Zimmer really admires Nolan and considers him one of the favourite directors he's worked with. I believe that Zimmer chooses to be as experimental as he can while coming up with these almost-gimmicky concepts for Nolan's projects. He tries to bring something new to their partnership each time. Sadly, what he comes up with is rarely all that new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 42 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The funny thing is that Zimmer kind of did do that "re-direction" with the Batman films in a way, overriding the nuanced variance of tones and story elements (the urban legend/mythical symbol element of Batman, the latent excitement of various action scenes) to bring the focus all on one main point: THIS IS SERIOUS, DAMMIT. Howard's family material was a breath of fresh air that was sadly absent from TDKR (when it would've been exceedingly appropriate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I just listened to the alternates of Superman The Movie. The alternate Main Title track is one of the most powerful pieces Williams ever did.The timpani underneath, pounding out the triplet-ostinato is so badass that it kicks the crap out of Zimmer's pseudo-powerful drum circle. While there are certain aspects to the Title March that are inappropriate for Man Of Steel, a slightly altered version would have worked completely. You'd be a fool to underestimate the timelessness of Williams' theme. Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Cue of his career contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The different effects with the ostinato are insane. Fucking nailed it. The music says "Wait for it, this is gonna be badass. Wait for it this going to be even more badass! Hey, you actually haven't seen nothing yet!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook1991 10 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The thing I never understand is why composers don't put music in the correct order on CD's kinda drives me crazy!! lol! Florian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Many do have a preference for correct order though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The thing I never understand is why composers don't put music in the correct order on CD's kinda drives me crazy!! lol! Thor....GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 We don't have time for such flimsy explanations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 YOU SHALL NOT VALUE THE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDEROVER THE LISTENING EXPERIENCE!!! Incanus and crocodile 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,722 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 By Thor's hammer you shall be avenged oh Listening experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 crocodile and Brónach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 GO BACK TO ASGARD! I HAVE AN AXE AND THERE'S FOUR OF ME! You shalt not break the chronological order of the listening experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Thor hath a hammer, not an axe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I AM OBVIOUSLY NOT THAT WHOM THEY CALL THUNOR, DUH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 215 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 So I listened to the whole thing on a long drive yesterday, the Limited Edition version.I'll be honest and say I enjoyed it. I didn't love it in the film, but on album it worked, at least for background music. Especially the quiet material, it's lovely. And I really do get a sense of optimism and hope from the quiet stuff, and the flight theme. I don't know, I think I actually get what Zimmer was going for. I expected to hate it, but I found it good, uplifting at times.I'm not a Zimmer fan, Spirit: Stallion of the Cimmaron, Muppet Treasure Island, Lion King, At World's End, Frost/Nixon, I love those and I'm luke warm on the rest, but I really liked this one. Go figure. alicebrallice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Your frame of mind is similar to my own it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,416 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 I still think it's really boring and repetitive.All the action cues sound the same.Compare it to something like The Empire Strikes Back. The Battle of Hoth sounds nothing like The Asteroid Field sounds nothing like This Is No Cave sounds nothing like the ending Bespin action material. Yet you can tell they are all from the same score.MOS uses the same basic ideas for all its action material, whether it's Supes holding up a metal rig, Jor-El flying around on avatar creatures, Zod destroying things, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Speaking of TESB, do you think we should be grateful that Williams did not score Superman II? In the Blue Box booklet, I read that the studio was doubtful Williams could make room in his schedule, as he was scheduled to do TESB just a little later. Would Superman II, especially with Lester, have taken away some creativity from TESB?By the way, "Flight" is just a terrible piece of music for Superman. Bah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 42 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yeah, I didn't get it. I listened to the OST today, and realized that the flight music is a theme from the Krypton sequences, almost like some kind of tribute/lament/elegy for Krypton. I guess he was trying to tie the development into Superman's roots, but...that doesn't have anything to do with the actual flying scene itself. It's like he's trying too hard to be clever and get under the surface of things, so much that he didn't realize "hey, this scene is about Kal having a chance to embrace his powers and have fun with it. Superman theme it is!" Seriously, the trailer 3/"What Are You Going to Do..." (Superman?) theme was the way to go there--he even builds up with it and then just switches over to the "Oh God, he's finding himself, this is a serious epic moment" bullshit. Dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Zimmer is odd this way for me. He keeps talkinig about finding the true emotions, yet I find Zimmer is, of all composers, the one who relies on the fakest emotions of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Caught the film on Saturday, and I've got to say - Zimmer did a hell of job. Really enjoying this score in a way I didn't expect. Love those celestial Lydian chords, white note clusters, the LFO motif for Zod using ZebraHz's resonator, and the delayed piano theme for Lois Lane (somewhat reminiscent of the beaning of 'Arthusa' from Barry's KING KONG). The percussion isn't fresh. its the same rhythms we've heard all throughout his career, augmented by more drummers. That's not true. No previous Zimmer score has explored 12/8 hemiolas to this extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I still think it's really boring and repetitive.All the action cues sound the same.Compare it to something like The Empire Strikes Back. The Battle of Hoth sounds nothing like The Asteroid Field sounds nothing like This Is No Cave sounds nothing like the ending Bespin action material. Yet you can tell they are all from the same score.MOS uses the same basic ideas for all its action material, whether it's Supes holding up a metal rig, Jor-El flying around on avatar creatures, Zod destroying things, whatever.Couldn't have said it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Conventional thinking, traditional bias.The score is very repetitive, but I don't see why that is a flaw by default. Especially in a bubblegum soundtrack like this one. A lot of music is repetitive and simplistic by design, like trance or techno for example. Both of which I can have a mood for.Perhaps peeps might shake the preconceptions of what they think film music should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,722 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I still haven't heard anything from this score outside the music from the trailer. The discussion here isn't exactly enticing me to take a listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Is the thread lacking in lengthy analysis essays, Incy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,722 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Is the thread lacking in lengthy analysis essays, Incy? Nah, I don't think that an analysis of any length could persuade me to appreciate Zimmer's recent output. I have become strongly allergic to his sound. I am glad some of you can appreciate it though. I think the last score I actually liked enough to purchase it was The Da Vinci Code, which had enough pros to override the cons (the nice themes and soloist moments VS the unisono synth sounding real horns (how does he do it?!), so thick soupy sounding basslines you need a hacksaw to cut through them etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Tbh this is literally the first Zimmer score since Hannibal to do anything for me. He's 99% boring nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 42 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Haven't seen Sherlock Holmes, but I like "Discombobulate." I actually very much like Inception; I like the pseudo-Vangelis stuff, I really enjoy the dream motive, and I think it's just an all-around great fit with the film as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,027 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I've said it before, but what makes me buy Zimmer's music these days is that he seems to be less interested in doing an orchestral traditional music, something he's not that good at. Sure, there are plenty of enjoyable works of his that do it the old way (sort of). But now he's doing something else. Mind you, not complex or equivalent, but different. He seems to have embraced the fact he's not an orchestral composer. And in this light his more recent works are interesting. Much closer to people like Vangelis.What bothers me, though, is something else. Not his approach and/or or level of sophistication. It's that he doesn't seem to have any storytelling going on. It's supposedly a decent enough idea repeated over and over. His last Batman score is the biggest offence of this sort so far. Not only does it not help the film, it manages to make it feel worse than it actually is.Man of Steel at least manages to provide his main Superman idea (the one from the trailer) some sort of simple development throughout the story. Whether just by using a fragment of the phrase or applying different instrumentation, at least it's there.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 42 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Indeed. But that potential on display with the gradual development (the bus rescue is a great example of this) just makes its flaws that much more frustrating. For starters, revealing the theme with full gusto over the final title is not a satisfying payoff for that development. You've got plain bad scoring (the flight scene, which SHOULD have been the big reveal), and a lack of attention to effect of the score on an already relentless film. The score (like the Batman scores) fails to acknowledge the variances in tone and importance from scene to scene and character to character. It also provides little relief from or temperance of the bludgeoning that the film gives you; even when the action isn't quite as overwhelming, there's an incessant self-importance about the music, as Zimmer is still plagued with the need to have every moment be hugely significant. It simply gets tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,027 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 You're right, of course. But I also forgot to say I was referring to the album.The film... I shall not speak of it anymore. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yeah yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Loved the film, BTW, but then I've always been a Snyder fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Damn, I just noticed that the Flight cue as heard on the album is an alternate. The cool pirouetting strings are missing, which are partly what made the cue so good. Hmm, needlessly annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanner251 17 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I keep wondering when Hans Zimmer is going to stop pretending to be a talentless hack composer. He is actually much better than his past 10 years can show for it, but his name carrying him, coupled with a decreasingly musically astute bunch of executives, has caused him to regress beyond measure.I think he has become merely an opportunist. This is very evident in the Pirates of the Caribbean series, of which the first has Klaus Badelt's name on it. Zimmer obviously couldn't be bothered with it because the idea of a film named after a Disneyland Ride would never make it. After it was a huge success, Zimmer made sure that his own name was on it from that point forward. It is clear that he just wants a piece of every epic film he can get his hands on, hence the large group of minions and the willingness to do 10 films a year at times. It is too bad he isn't serious about the craft because he could really be great, I think.I'm sure that he could take what I've said here and laugh all the way to the bank. Someone should throw down the gauntlet and re-score some of the movies he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Actually, Zimmer was contractually not allowed to score PotC 1, which is why Badelt got the credit. Zimmer was responsible for all (or almost all of the themes) and quite a bit of the action music--Badelt merely arranged and orchestrated Zimmer's ideas.In fact, a demo Zimmer wrote before Badelt was even involved ("Pirates, Day One, 4:56 AM") can serve as a "highlights" track or medley of the score's best moments.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go357RKjabk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Yes, wanner's whole post is pretty much conspiracy BS. Dixon Hill and Florian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Why wasný Zimmer contractually allowed to score POTC? Was he working on something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannhauser 101 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The last samurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Sounds like Poltergeist all over again! It's most telling that Zimmer didn't take out a page spread in a national newspaper to play down his involvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Poltergeist is like [Mr Plinkett voice] "a combination movie" between Spielberg's wider style and themes and specific Hooperisms scattered throughout. POTC is a score that's just slapped together from Zimmer's sound library. I always laugh remembering the kids at Mugglenet forums suggesting Badelt as their preferred composer for any future Potter flicks based on POTC. His effort on The Time Machine maybe, but it's unlikely they would have heard that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 In hindsight it's a shame that once legendary face rip off in the mirror wasn't jettisoned in another cut. Because it's literally the only scene in the movie which badly dates the movie - guffaws all round teenage circles makes me sad. That movie was an amazing ghost story in its day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanner251 17 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 OK, well if it was a contractual issue, that makes sense... I realize that Zimmer actually WROTE the music, I knew that already, but not having his name on it didn't make sense. It doesn't make him any less of an opportunist. 12 scores in a year? I wonder how many more he's done that don't have his name on them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 I always laugh remembering the kids at Mugglenet forums suggesting Badelt as their preferred composer for any future Potter flicks based on POTC. His effort on The Time Machine maybe, but it's unlikely they would have heard that.RESCUE DAWN was a fine score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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