The Desolation of Smaug SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[Jay 37,376]

As it now it, the character seems a bit pointless, the film could have just as well have opened with the company arriving at Mirkwood.

Yup.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The rather fast pace of the first part of the film may also be a leftover from the original 2 film setup, where these scenes were part of film one, and therefore would have been building towards a climax

[Bilbo 3,709]

That shot of Azog climbing over the battlements that was in pretty much EVERY trailer and TV spot wasn't in the film in the end.

Was his role switched with that of Bolg's by any chance?

[crocodile 8,020]

Yeah, it seems like it.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Quite likely.

Crtl + alt + replace

[Barnald 365]

I think the Beorn and Mirkwood sequence were heavily truncated as Jackson was mindful of the widescale (and entirely undeserved, IMO) criticism of the 'slow' (again, not a term I'd use) beginning to AUJ. It's possible he was even told by Warner to get to the first big action set-piece (spiders) ASAP. Another long sequence at a house discussing the past and future plans would have played right into the hands of critics. Ditto for another long prologue (hence why the Thrain flashback sequences were cut)

Part of me feels irked that Tauriel and Legolas got so much screen time compared to Beorn and the completely absent Thrain, but I think they were unlucky in that they came at the start of the film (and in Thrain's case, once you've cut those, you have to remove the rest of the arc). I trust the EE will rectify this by giving Beorn a good 5 minutes more, and of course restoring the entire Thrain arc, which will in turn enhance the Gandalf storyline.

[Jay 37,376]

Honestly it felt to me like every single scene with Bolg and Azog was a new reshoot and not part of the original plan.

BTW, what location was Azog supposed to be in, in that shot that was in all those trailers?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The Woodland Realm gate on the river.

[Incanus 5,716]

Honestly it felt to me like every single scene with Bolg and Azog was a new reshoot and not part of the original plan.

BTW, what location was Azog supposed to be in, in that shot that was in all those trailers?

This film also proves Azog could have easily been changed with Bolg in AUJ and there would have not been significant change in the plot. Gandalf could have provided some exposition to smooth over that Bolg was the one hunting for the dwarves and the revelation that Bolg was Azog's progeny would have been more effective than it was in AUJ as everyone in the audience figured out immediately who the leader of the warg riders was. In other words Azog is story wise pretty much useless contrivance as I have always thought.

[KK 3,307]

Yeah, the fact that Azog doesn't do anything in this film just goes to show how interchangeable both characters are.

[Barnald 365]

I like having two big baddies for the third film. Gives something for Beorn and Dain to do at the Five Armies (I'm guessing, since these characters will need these feats).

[Lewya 360]

Do we know anything about the extended edition yet? Will Bombur fall into the river, and will Thrain be in it? Anything else? I read it something about it somewhere but I can't remember.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This film also proves Azog could have easily been changed with Bolg in AUJ and there would have not been significant change in the plot. Gandalf could have provided some exposition to smooth over that Bolg was the one hunting for the dwarves and the revelation that Bolg was Azog's progeny would have been more effective than it was in AUJ as everyone in the audience figured out immediately who the leader of the warg riders was. In other words Azog is story wise pretty much useless contrivance as I have always thought.

I disagree completely. There was no need to have Bolg. They introduced an impressive enemy in AUJ and then casually shove him aside in the next film.

Bolg isnt nearly as impressive looking as Azog.

[Faleel 5,365]

I liked the film, the Mirkwood scenes (when they left the path) was pretty sickening.

Oh and a few bits of unreleased music.

Also, I immensley disagree with Thor statement about there being travel shots that have low meandering strings, most of the "travel" shots were parts of chase scenes, there was not alot of time to stop and look at the scenery.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah I only remember one real travel shot, when they first reach Erebor.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There were ones before that Dude

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Do we know anything about the extended edition yet? Will Bombur fall into the river, and will Thrain be in it? Anything else? I read it something about it somewhere but I can't remember.

In the last couple of days, someone (I think Phillipa Boyens) has been quoted as confirming that the Thrain scene will be in the extended edition (of The Desolation of Smaug).

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

But actual slow, sweeping shots as opposed to fast paced running ones? I don't remember really.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

There were about two shots of the Company travelling from Beorn's to Mirkwood.

[Faleel 5,365]

Which were scored with forboding music, because of the forest...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

THE FOREST! BEWARE THE FOREST!!!!

[Jay 37,376]

Wow, so as originally written and shot it was Azog that chased the company down the river. That makes so much more sense than Bolg... Ugh. It seems like PJ was still mostly sane while filming, and then has totally lost it in the post production of these things...

[Incanus 5,716]

This film also proves Azog could have easily been changed with Bolg in AUJ and there would have not been significant change in the plot. Gandalf could have provided some exposition to smooth over that Bolg was the one hunting for the dwarves and the revelation that Bolg was Azog's progeny would have been more effective than it was in AUJ as everyone in the audience figured out immediately who the leader of the warg riders was. In other words Azog is story wise pretty much useless contrivance as I have always thought.

I disagree completely. There was no need to have Bolg. They introduced an impressive enemy in AUJ and then casually shove him aside in the next film.

Bolg isnt nearly as impressive looking as Azog.

What I meant was that Bolg could have been the villain (with a better design) from the start with very little change in the story with no need of Azog to be "resurrected" from the dead. He might have been avenging his father and still could have been serving the Necromancer and thus gathered the army to assault the mountain (because the film makers want to blame that on Sauron too).

[mrbellamy 6,298]

Ended up seeing this again today. The aspects that I liked, I liked even more, and the aspects I didn't stayed about the same. As for the song, I still think that the a cappella introduction prevents it from seeming completely out of place. If it had immediately gone right into that acoustic singer-songwriter sound, it would have been kind of an awkward fit for the film, but I don't think that a solo voice singing out "Oh misty eye of the mountain below" is out of place at the end of a Middle Earth movie.

Also a couple points from Jason's review I wanted to comment on...

Speaking of Kili, I kinda didn't mind his injury and that 3 dwarves stay behind with him instead of going into Erebor. But I think PJ should have chosen a different Elf to be the one that flirts with Tauriel, Kili and Fili should be in the mountain with Thorin as his closest kin. Silly move.

I like that it's Kili who stays. I think any particular resonance as to their kinship would have been lost on the audience or possibly even gone completely unmentioned otherwise, and depriving Kili of that opportunity to be with Thorin as they reach Erebor helped to garner even more sympathy for him. I think it's one of the most emotionally charged moments in the movie, actually. It also helps to further establish Fili and Kili's bond, which is always a good thing since it's important that the two of them stand out as much as possible. I thought it was a nice move and accomplished a surprising amount with very little (practically unheard of elsewhere in the movie ).

I don't believe Legolas's name is ever once mentioned on screen. Tauriel calls him by an Elven name at one point but that is it.

Thranduil and Tauriel both do mention him by name in their conversation after they lock the dwarves up ("Legolas has grown very fond of you" "He sees me as no more than a warrior" etc.) but yeah, I think that's it.

Oh yea, the Arkenstone! It was the focus of much of Bilbo and Smaug's encounter, with Bilbo constantly running after it and trying to pocket it. But then...... we never find out if he got it! We see Thorin ask him about it, he avoids the question.... and then that's it! WTF? Why don't we the audience know if he got it or not? I didn't get it...

Both times, I was definitely under the impression that he didn't actually get it. I think that's the most obvious implication and I'll be annoyed if it turns out he did grab it after all, because why wouldn't he have shown it to Thorin when he first ran into him? Plus, in the book, I don't think he picks it up until after Smaug leaves anyway, right? It would make more sense to have him pick it up at the beginning of Film 3 and then start hiding it from Thorin, after seeing how aggressive and threatening he had gotten over it.

[Jay 37,376]

Yea, I agree.

So I guess his reluctance to answer Thorin's question is more out now embarrassment for not succeeding in his task then.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Do we know anything about the extended edition yet? Will Bombur fall into the river, and will Thrain be in it? Anything else? I read it something about it somewhere but I can't remember.

http://atolkienistperspective.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/dos-major-editorial-changes/

[Jay 37,376]

Wow, that's a lot of stuff cut. The DOS EE could easily have the most footage added of all three films.

[publicist 4,643]

Ended up seeing this again today.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Should be going for round 3 tonight!

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Went for round 3 last night. I'll probably manage a few more before the theatrical run finishes.

[publicist 4,643]

You are all fucking freaks.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

True. And I don't even like the film all that much...

[publicist 4,643]

WB and Peter Jackson love you all the more, then...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why see a movie you don't love several times in the cinema?

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

WB and Peter Jackson love you all the more, then...

I guess they must!

Why see a movie you don't love several times in the cinema?

Because I am, nevertheless, extremely interested in the whole project - in many of its aspects, from the use of the score to the outcome of the high frame rate experiment. In the three times that I've watched The Desolation of Smaug so far, I don't think there's been a moment when my mind hasn't been intently engaged with it - but with a complex mixture of positive and negative reactions. I do think that there is much to admire in it.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I just really, really enjoy these movies!

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

After attending two different 48fps screenings yesterday and having profoundly different reactions to each of them, I'm wondering if the mixed responses to the format which people have been reporting this year and last are purely down to the nature of HFR or whether they are partly caused by differences among theatres' equipment and/or their settings.

Don't think that's the case really. My friends and I watched both at the same theatre, and both times I liked the HFR and they didn't.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Response to HFR seems to vary radically from person to person.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I saw it with two other people (HFR). One like me loved it instantly and the other wasn't sure what to make of it. I think that it just takes some getting used to. Some are faster than other to grasp it. I'm sorry to have missed AUJ in HFR now! Hopefully they'll release the HFR versions for home media at some point.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Would that not require that your player and your TV is able to handle the format?

So far HFR is NOT a successful format

[Quintus 5,399]

HFR has been a mini disaster for these movies. It has distracted from the main draw of the movies themselves far too much and through word of mouth has murkied the broader perception of their quality.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well HFR was marketed heavily for An Unexpected Journey, but for Desolation, I haven't seen it mentioned at all.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Would that not require that your player and your TV is able to handle the format?

So far HFR is NOT a successful format

I'm not sure of the technical specs tbh. It's something I'd be interested in upgrading to in a few years though.

Well HFR was marketed heavily for An Unexpected Journey, but for Desolation, I haven't seen it mentioned at all.

Yet I've read it is opening in HFR in more theaters than AUJ.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's possible, I would not know abut that.

[Bilbo 3,709]

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2013/12/09/hobbit-sequel-high-frame-rate-theater-count-goes-way-up

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

750 theaters world wide still isn't much.

[Bilbo 3,709]

No that's US. Should have looked harder and not gone with IGN, my bad!

http://www.thewrap.com/hobbit-sequel-steers-clear-high-frame-rate-controversy/

about 3,250 worldwide. Not massive but a significant increase on last year.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

Looks like Stefan's fears weren't unfounded.

I wonder what his post might have looked like had he not "gave up".

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

In other news, the sun appeared in the sky again today.