Older film score fans vs New film score fans

[King Mark 3,631]

My theory.

Older film score fans : Primarily ORCHESTRAL music lovers, but like more thematic material than what is found in classical music. This is why they like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner....etc...

New film score fans: Primarily POP MUSIC fans , but they might prefer instrumental arrangements. This is why they like Zimmer and RCP with lots of rhythmic drums.

This is why arguments often clash in film music forums because the basic preference in music is different

[KK 3,307]

I only dug into film music about 4 years ago. And yet I largely prefer the works in your first category (John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner...etc) over those of the latter (modern Zimmer, droning RCP, drums, bwaaaamms, etc).

What does that make me?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I like both. Oops. Sorry your sweeping generalization didn't work out!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

What does that make me?

An oddity.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well I said primarily. I guess your one of the few that got into orchestral music today.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Today? Maybe before you did, whippersnapper.

[KK 3,307]

What does that make me?

An oddity.

So I'm special, right?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

No. Just odd.

[KK 3,307]

Well I said primarily. I guess your one of the few that got into orchestral music today.

In all fairness, I got into classical music before film music (though not by that large a difference in time).

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

And besides, how do you know I would be one of only a FEW?

[KK 3,307]

No. Just odd.

Well, I like to think odd is the new cool.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

It's not.

[Faleel 5,363]

See Radagast.

[KK 3,307]

Looks pretty cool to me.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,522]

My theory.

Older film score fans : Primarily ORCHESTRAL music lovers, but like more thematic material than what is found in classical music. This is why they like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner....etc...

New film score fans: Primarily POP MUSIC fans , but they might prefer instrumental arrangements. This is why they like Zimmer and RCP with lots of rhythmic drums.

This is why arguments often clash in film music forums because the basic preference in music is different

Could be you have a point, but there are loads of exceptions. I'm relatively young (36), got into film music in the early 90's, but like all kinds of stuff from all eras and in all styles. I can go from Franz Waxman to Cliff Martinez in a heartbeat.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Does classical music really suffer from a deficiency of thematic material (in comparison with film music)?

[Faleel 5,363]

No.

Its just that its written somewhat differently.

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm 36 and I'll listen to old and new music, regardless of its construction, as long as I think it's good music.

[Bespin 8,484]

Yesterday while watching Elysium, I was saying that it must difficult for a composer to score a movie, since directors have no more the sense of great "scenes".

You know, a continuous scene between actors, with a beginning and a climax...

Today everything is cutted with a frenetic montage... and the abuse of flashbacks and parallel scenes.

Because today's movies scenarios are weak, so there are the scores.

[King Mark 3,631]

Does classical music really suffer from a deficiency of thematic material (in comparison with film music)?

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium. So it's not that I prefer film scores out of ignorance for classical music

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'm 36 and I'll listen to old and new music, regardless of its construction, as long as I think it's good music.

Precisely.

If this sentiment means nothing to you, I prescribe some John Cage writings. Sound is sound.

Yesterday while watching Elysium, I was saying that it must difficult for a composer to score a movie, since directors have no more the sense of great "scenes".

You know, a continuous scene between actors, with a beginning and a climax...

Today everything is cutted with a frenetic montage... flashbacks, parallel scenes, cutt-offs, etc.

Because today's movies scenarios are weak, so there are the scores.

Again, precisely. Film music is not the only thing in film that's "not as good as the old days." Aesthetics have changed. That affects every element of a film. You simply can't score many modern films in anything but a modern way. Whether it moves you or not is one thing - but it's not inherently worse because it is new.

Does classical music really suffer from a deficiency of thematic material (in comparison with film music)?

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium. So it's not that I prefer film scores out of ignorance for classical music

That's your fault, not the music's.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

I also like a fair amount of older music, and I'm younger than Quint by a whole fortnight.

[publicist 4,643]

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium.

Pesky classics had the disadvantage of not being connected to E. T. flying over the moon or giant star destroyers plowing through space.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It depends on who's offering what.

[Faleel 5,363]

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium.

Pesky classics had the disadvantage of not being connected to E. T. flying over the moon or giant star destroyers plowing through space.

This.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yes, God forbid we should have to extract our own meaning from music. Too much work, am i right?

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium.

Pesky classics had the disadvantage of not being connected to E. T. flying over the moon or giant star destroyers plowing through space.

No doubt the connections were there in the composers' minds. Who nowadays could believe that Beethoven didn't envisage the door of that vault sliding open as he was scribbling away?

[King Mark 3,631]

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium.

Pesky classics had the disadvantage of not being connected to E. T. flying over the moon or giant star destroyers plowing through space.

This.

I don't think that's true. I like Williams music for how it sounds as pure music not connected to the film. It's the way the instruments sound

[Trent B 337]

Born in 1981 I grew up during a time of period where good scores were composed and released. So I guess I'm with the first option.

[Faleel 5,363]

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium.

Pesky classics had the disadvantage of not being connected to E. T. flying over the moon or giant star destroyers plowing through space.

This.

It's the way the instruments sound

Ah, so the mixing/recording.

[Quintus 5,399]

KM adores the unmistakable Williams aesthetic. As do most of us.

But then there's the other divide: the Williams wet vs dry divide.

I'm wet all over. Ooo yeah, give me that wet orchestration any day of the week. Work it baby.

[Trent B 337]

BTW it was actually the score for Star Trek The Motion Picture that got me into film scores in the first place. I will admit my very first CD was Star Trek III The Search For Spock.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Personally I think it does. My dad played countless classical music pieces in the home and it never grabbed me like film scores, despite both using an orchestra as a medium.

Pesky classics had the disadvantage of not being connected to E. T. flying over the moon or giant star destroyers plowing through space.

This.

I don't think that's true. I like Williams music for how it sounds as pure music not connected to the film. It's the way the instruments sound

Try some Bartok.

[King Mark 3,631]

I like some classical music , but it's the rare odd piece here and there

[Bespin 8,484]

From Immortal Beloved (1994):

Ludwig van Beethoven: [in reference to "Violin Sonata in A Major, Op. 47" - "Kreutzer"... ] Do you like it?

Anton Felix Schindler: Shh!

Ludwig van Beethoven: I cannot hear them, but I know they are making a hash of it. What do you think? Music is... a dreadful thing. What is it? I don't understand it. What does it mean?

Anton Felix Schindler: It - it exalts the soul.

Ludwig van Beethoven: Utter nonsense. If you hear a marching band, is your soul exalted? No, you march. If you hear a waltz, you dance. If you hear a mass, you take communion. It is the power of music to carry one directly into the mental state of the composer. The listener has no choice. It is like hypnotism. So, now... What was in my mind when I wrote this? Hmm? A man is trying to reach his lover. His carriage has broken down in the rain. The wheels stuck in the mud. She will only wait so long. This... is the sound of his agitation. "This is how it is... ," the music is saying. "Not how you are used to being. Not how you are used to thinking. But like this."

[Once 605]

I'm 19. I think I'm just a fan of music in general. I enjoy the Beatles and Amy Winehouse as much as I enjoy Herrmann and Morricone. I like Coldplay and Tchaikovsky. John Barry and Johnny Cash. Tom Jones, Norah Jones, Danny Elfman, Gnarls Barkley. It depends on the mood I'm in. I don't put the music I like in categories, I just like what I like.

In my world Williams is the master of them all, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy pop music.

Now I'm gonna go listen to Let It Be followed by In Search of Unicorns.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I don't really like music at all; I just enjoy bashing John Williams.

My theory.

Older film score fans : Primarily ORCHESTRAL music lovers, but like more thematic material than what is found in classical music. This is why they like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner....etc...

New film score fans: Primarily POP MUSIC fans , but they might prefer instrumental arrangements. This is why they like Zimmer and RCP with lots of rhythmic drums.

This is why arguments often clash in film music forums because the basic preference in music is different

Blah blah blah blah blah.

It's all very simple.

Older film score fans like music.

Newer film score fans like noise.

No exceptions.

</thread>

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It's all very simple. Anyone younger or older than me is out of touch.

[Quintus 5,399]

A witty fellow you are I've noticed. We'll keep you.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I first saw Johnny Williams name on Gilligan's Island. I loved his music for Lost In Space. I always had an ear for other film music/tv music. I can accept some of the music that is used as scores for tv and film. On rare occasion it succeeds. Lets face it not all past scores even from those in my birth era was a masterpiece. There have always been levels of quality. Today there are even more levels of quality, more levels of inequality.

Would I be wrong to say that the very best from Zimmer does not approach the very best from Williams. The Zimmites may disagree, hell even the Williams fans might.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You'd be wrong because your criteria is likely which moves you more, and that is irrelevant outside your own mind. If you want to go by musical complexity, and assume that more complexity equals better music, then yes, the best of Zimmer doesn't approach the best of Williams. But that assumption about complexity is of course wrong.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

You tell me I'm wrong then you tell I am right. Seriously Sybil make up you're mind.

Of course I have no idea if you're a Zimmite or not. But I'm clearly not a fan of his style or his end product.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Sorry for the confusion. You're wrong in both cases.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Oh my God you're utterly cluless wink. I am absolutely correct, death, taxes, and John Williams is better than Zimmer. If I let go of a hammer I do not have to see it fall to know that John Williams is better. I can simply play Superman and then google or you tube man of steel, only one is great.

I could substitute Giacchino for Zimmer. The equation is not altered.

Now the debate becomes interesting when your turn it upside down and pits J against J.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You have my pity.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Save it for yourself. How dare you say John isn't superior. It's sad and disgusting.

John is the reason to be here. He's made film music accessible to the people hell to the people who make axmockery of film music today. Even Hans knows he's inferior.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You'll note that I've said nothing about superiority or inferiority. Such distinctions in music are worthless. Things move you or they don't. You can be moved in different ways. How dare you be so obtuse?

[Wojo 2,453]

I prefer new scores, personally. Old scores just...I don't know. It's like the technology wasn't good enough back then to tell the point musically. They had to improvise using all these instruments and subtle techniques. Now that they have all these synthesizers and digital techniques and all these collaborators putting their thoughts together, it's so much newer and technologically superior to what came before, you know? It's hard to go back to the old-fashioned way of writing music. I really can't stand nostalgic film scoring. I listen to Zimmer and Tyler and Jablonsky and Trent Reznor and I know that in ten years, their current work will be so outdated by what they'll be able to do next. We really live in exciting times!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Zimmer moves me! To turn off that awful noise. But each to his own. I'm only 22 but definitely fall into the first category.