Star Wars is better than everything

[ThePenitentMan1 754]

44 minutes ago, Presto said:

I have to say I think your edit was incorrect, we have the revised crossover insert clean ending and openings from the Radio Drama, and I think you left some of it in.

 

 

 

"Incorrect" is a strong word for it.  There's only so much I can do with what the albums give us.

 

But thanks for these, I appreciate it!

[Chen G. 3,990]

16 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Let's ask George...or the next best thing: Chen. 

 

Well, I mean... Coruscant is a city-planet, and strictly speaking, Bespin is a huge city, too.

 

But I'm afraid our esteemed colleague is looking at it in terms of rhyming stanzas with Episode II, which... yeah, I don't buy it.

[Schilkeman 986]

17 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Well, I mean... Coruscant is a city-planet, and strictly speaking, Bespin is a huge city, too.

 

But I'm afraid our esteemed colleague is looking at it in terms of rhyming stanzas with Episode II, which... yeah, I don't buy it.

They're both, literally, cities in the clouds (as presented in Episode II). It's so obvious it's stupid. The structure of the films very clearly "rhymes." You have to want to not see it.

[Chen G. 3,990]

You know what this rhyming stanzas remind me of? In the 1930s there was a music theorist called Alfred Lorenz who decided to analyse The Ring (and also Tristan, Meistersinger and Parsifal) as a huge, 16-hour AAB structure based around key centers.

 

Guess how highly those theories are thought of today?

[Schilkeman 986]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

You know what this rhyming stanzas remind me of? In the 1930s there was a music theorist called Alfred Lorenz who decided to analyse The Ring (and also Tristan, Meistersinger and Parsifal) as a huge, 16-hour AAB structure based around key centers.

 

Guess how highly those theories are thought of today?

I don't know enough about that to comment, but what this reminds me of, is the endless videos digging into every piece of minutia and nuance in Shore's LotR scores that I've seen, or has been shared. Because music is partially, and certainly in the way Shore uses it, mathematical, it is easily provable through analysis. But when we try to do that with Star Wars? We're reading too much into it. 

 

At it's absolute most most basic, we have.

 

Episode I - Episode VI

Start above arboreal planet, end in celebration on arboreal planet (for both)

 

Episode II - Episode V

Start on city in the clouds, end in battle on barren planet (mirrored in V)

 

Episode III - Episode IV

Start with battle over a planet that is a city, end on Tantive IV and Tatooine.

Start on Tantive IV over Tatooine, end with battle over a city that is a planet.

[Chen G. 3,990]

Star Wars (I refuse to call it Episode IV) and Episode VI also "rhyme" extensively, which kind of mucks things up...

 

All this basically amounts to is building a grand theory out of the use of callbacks, and a wonky one at that: looking especially at Episode III, I see just as many callbacks to the previosu two prequels as to anything in the classic trilogy. And some of it is just generic similarities.

 

Curious to see if anyone else here believes in this rigorous "Ring" theory, especially to the extent that you propose Lucas implemented it as.

[Nick1Ø66 4,742]

I'm a bit sceptical of the whole rhyming thing. I think some of it is clearly there, and intentionally so, but I think a lot of it is revisionist history, on the part of both Lucas and the fans.

 

That said, unlike Rian Johnson with The Last Jedi, one thing I'll give Abrams credit for is the "rhyming" of the film titles with regard to their respective places in each trilogy...i.e. The Force Awakens follows nicely from The Phantom Menace & A New Hope, and similarly The Rise of Skywalker from Revenge of the Sith & Return of the Jedi.

 

 

[Schilkeman 986]

46 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Star Wars (I refuse to call it Episode IV) and Episode VI also "rhyme" extensively, which kind of mucks things up..

It doesn’t muck things up at all. Episode I-III, I-IV, and IV-VI create “minor” structures, or “rings,” inside the larger ones. Their connections tend to be more in the “callback” style as you call it, but some in the structure. Certainly Episodes I and IV have a similar opening following the two protagonists, repeated again in III, which is probably where you are getting the similarities to the previous episodes from (although nothing from II comes to mind). The similarities between IV and VI have been noted for decades.
 

The structure of Episode II as it relates to Episodes IV V, and VI boggles my mind. Once you start seeing them this way, it’s very clear there is barely a scene in these films that doesn’t have an “answer” in one of its corresponding episodes.

 

And it is useful to note, particularly with regards to Lucas, that this style of story telling does not require a grand plan, and can be a post hoc addition as the series progresses, which is certainly his style.

[Chen G. 3,990]

12 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I think some of it is clearly there, and intentionally so

 

Oh, for sure! But on the level of isolated beats, not to the extent that it dictates the structure of entire swathes of the individual entries, as is suggested here:

 

2 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

it’s very clear there is barely a scene in these films that doesn’t have an “answer” in one of its corresponding episodes.

[Schilkeman 986]

I don’t expect many will read all of this, but it’s fun for me. This is rough and off the top of my head, but here goes
 

In Episode II we have an opening on cloud-coved Coruscant, and an act of deceit puts our protagonist in danger.

After a scene in a high rise dwelling, complete with rising elevators, we get a chase with a bounty hunter through the city, which leads to a bounty hunter getting away.

 

This corresponds with the end of Empire.

 

After some expository scenes, the film is split in two paths: Obi-Wan trying to find a mysterious planet, and Padme and Anakin in hiding.

 

Following the first path, Obi-Wan finds his wayward planet, a water covered planet, symbolizing life, and meets strange aliens who tell him about the clone army.

 

Minus the cave scene, which I will address later, this is a parallel story with Luke searching for Dagobah, a planet teeming with life, and his meeting Yoda.

 

Following Padme and Anakin, we have a journey to and on Naboo. Once on Naboo, we have five scenes meant to move the love story forward, they are “where are you staying,” the lake scene (kiss), the waterfall scene, the fireplace scene, and the morning scene.

 

This is mirrored almost exactly with Han and Leia’s scenes on  the falcon, which are “don’t get excited,” “the kissing scene,” The mynock scene, and the “where are we?” scene.

 

But I hear you asking, what about the cave scene, and the asteroid chase? 
 

These were flipped. Obi-Wan, corresponding to Luke, gets the asteroid chase (complete with garbage dump), and Padme and Anakin, corresponding to Han and Leia get the cave scene, which is the fireplace scene.

 

After this, it gets more complicated. Once on Tatooine, Anakin’s story, with the character now of the appropriate age, parallels Luke’s in episode IV. We have a table scene, a reverse binary sunset, the rushing off to find his mother (complete with twin suns symbolism), finding his mother, and the aftermath.

 

Thus has Anakin pre-peated both of his children’s stories in the same film.

 

Back to Obi-Wan, he “finds that bounty hunter” and follows him to Geonosis. A barren world full of caves, where he is subsequently captured (even suspended above the ground) and, in need of rescue.

 

This parallels Luke’s wampa adventure on Hoth.

 

Now the structure gets even more complicated. 
 

A land battle will ensue on the barren planet, just as it does at the beginning of Empire, but before that we get a, ahem, Burroughs-ish fight with creatures. This is not dissimilar from Luke’s fight with the wampa, but is much closer to his fight with the rancor in length and style.

 

But I can hear you say, that’s Episode VI, dummy. 
 

Well, if we look at Episode VI, with its “movie inside a movie” opening, it is fact the conclusion to the cliffhanger ending of Empire. The start of VI is the end of V. With Luke infiltrating Jabba’s palace, fighting the rancor, and rescuing Han.

 

Similarly, the opening of Sith is a movie inside a movie, which follows the ending of Clones. The start of III is the end of II, or more accurately, the end of II is the beginning of III, with Anakin and Padme infiltrating the droid factory, fighting the creatures in the arena, and rescuing Obi-Wan.

 

So in review, we have Obi-Wan’s story, which starts on “cloud” city, moves to the “life” planet, and ends on the barren planet. This mirrors Luke’s story.

 

We also have Padme and Anakin, who start on “cloud” city, move to the “hiding” place, and end up on the barren planet. A mirror of Han and Leia. The only part that is different is Anakin’s sojourn on Tatooine, which has been explained.

 

Thank you for your time. If anyone cares, I can do the other Episodes. If not, I’ve made my case.

[Chen G. 3,990]

Okay, lets have a show of hands: who here thinks this rigorous kind of "rhyming stanzas" - controling basically the structure of the entire film - is or isn't reading too much into this?

 

I'll start: Reading WAAAY too much into it.

[Schilkeman 986]

I love when people present a reasoned and thorough argument, and someone replies, "meh, I don't think so." Put a comma in there, and have some fun.

 

Look, arguments on the internet are never for the people arguing, they're for the people reading. I doubt anything I say can change @Chen G.'s mind. He seems determined to not like these movies, which is his prerogative. I feel the same way about the Hobbit films. Though, I would argue he's in the wrong goddamned thread.

 

Just don't give in to blanket anti-intellectualism insisting that anything intricately made must be too far up its own ass to worry about, or take seriously. I could write stuff just as in-depth about any John Williams composition, and no-one here would bat an eye.

[Tallguy 3,421]

25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Okay, lets have a show of hands: who here thinks this rigorous kind of "rhyming stanzas" - controling basically the structure of the entire film - is or isn't reading too much into this?

 

I'll start: Reading WAAAY too much into it.

 

My first reaction is agreeing with @Chen G.. But then I wonder how much of George sniffing his own farts actually translates into action? COULD he have fooled himself into writing an actual structure that echoed the OT? Maybe? In that level of detail? Ehhhhh... I think he repeated some broad ideas (asteroids) and then mythologized it saying "It rhymes!"

 

@Schilkeman - First off none of that gets me to care about Attack of the Clones.

 

I know it was directed at Chen, but I was never "determined to not like these movies". I remember the weeks before the film. I had my friends who got off the train after Phantom Menace (which I found tolerably watchable). "No!" I said. "This was just the open! And George will have his sea legs back now. This is going to be amazing!" Especially with the rather unexpected ad campaign that focused on the star crossed lovers Anakin and Padme. This could be interesting. With the opening scene in the clouds and fog and the assassination of Padme's decoy I felt vindicated. But by the time we got to the extended speeder chase that echoed all of the worst parts of the mine cars from Temple of Doom I was concerned. Then we had the heart of the movie, Anakin and Padme... I still can't even describe what they were doing there. By the time Threepio was being reassembled while making one liners I was out. (There was a brief moment when Padme gave her "I die every day" speech and I got a little choked up. "This movie does not deserve this scene." I thought.)

 

Then we got to Yoda as Bob Barker from Happy Gilmore. Done and done.

 

Where I really break with @Schilkeman's analysis is where you make the jump to include Jabba's palace as more of a coda to Empire. I really don't see Lucas giving it that much thought. I also think Jabba is far more in keeping with the tone of Jedi than Empire and also follows the pattern of the other two movies of having an early nearly unrelated adventure.

 

[Chen G. 3,990]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

then I wonder how much of George sniffing his own farts actually translates into action? COULD he have fooled himself into writing an actual structure that echoed the OT? Maybe?

 

Oh, he definitely would!

 

Not just on the level of this "rhyming" business, either. For instance, after 1980 George Lucas was all about his hi-flautin sources and "reading the epics." And then, by the time we get to the prequel trilogy you see that there IS a bit (but never more than a bit!) more of an attempt to channel Kurosawa in Episode I, and there are suddenly more nods to "prestigious" historical epics, and by the time we get to Episode III there are also absolutely shades of Oedipus Rex to the thing. So he definitely felt he needs to "own up" to some extent.

 

And the "yeah, I definitely wrote it all out of one giant script." Again, when Lucas started scripting the prequels he DEFINITELY and for quite a long period of time intended the write them all at once and shoot them back-to-back. It didn't pan out, but he still wanted to at least deal with Episode I and then do the other two back-to-back (which also didn't pan out).  But you can see the attempt.

 

And then you have the "rhyming" business. I think you could make the argument it started in a way in Return of the Jedi, which absolutely replicates large portions of Star Wars - either Star Wars as we have it, or early drafts thereof. Heck, the opening shot is recreating the shot compsition at the beginning of the original (with a Death Star replacing a moon). While I think the primary reason is a creative low-ebb, I think the argument could be made that Lucas like the idea of creating "book-ends" to the trilogy, partially because that's what also happened (however serendipitously) in Indiana Jones.

 

I think the notion of a more rigorous "ryhming" came after Lucas mapped-out Episode I, which was basically ported over from an early draft of the original. So its something you mostly see in Episode II, strictly (to my mind) to the extent that its also a love-story, and in that for inspiration Lucas turned to ideas from the Empire Strikes Back story conferences in terms of planets (that's where an ocean planet first emerges) and certainly in inserting an asteroid chase into the piece.

 

Then, in Episode III, originally the big confrontation between Sidious, Dooku and Anakin was going to rhyme very overtly with the confrontation in Episode VI, a symmetry that was broken when it was moved to the film's opening.

[Nick1Ø66 4,742]

52 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Oh, he definitely would!

 

Not just on the level of this "rhyming" business, either. For instance, after 1980 George Lucas was all about his hi-flautin sources and "reading the epics." And then, by the time we get to the prequel trilogy you see that there IS a bit (but never more than a bit!) more of an attempt to channel Kurosawa in Episode I, and there are suddenly more nods to "prestigious" historical epics, and by the time we get to Episode III there are also absolutely shades of Oedipus Rex to the thing. So he definitely felt he needs to "own up" to some extent.

 

And the "yeah, I definitely wrote it all out of one giant script." Again, when Lucas started scripting the prequels he DEFINITELY and for quite a long period of time intended the write them all at once and shoot them back-to-back. It didn't pan out, but he still wanted to at least deal with Episode I and then do the other two back-to-back (which also didn't pan out).  But you can see the attempt.

 

And then you have the "rhyming" business. I think you could make the argument it started in a way in Return of the Jedi, which absolutely replicates large portions of Star Wars - either Star Wars as we have it, or early drafts thereof. Heck, the opening shot is recreating the shot compsition at the beginning of the original (with a Death Star replacing a moon). While I think the primary reason is a creative low-ebb, I think the argument could be made that Lucas like the idea of creating "book-ends" to the trilogy, partially because that's what also happened (however serendipitously) in Indiana Jones.

 

I think the notion of a more rigorous "ryhming" came after Lucas mapped-out Episode I, which was basically ported over from an early draft of the original. So its something you mostly see in Episode II, strictly (to my mind) to the extent that its also a love-story, and in that for inspiration Lucas turned to ideas from the Empire Strikes Back story conferences in terms of planets (that's where an ocean planet first emerges) and certainly in inserting an asteroid chase into the piece.

 

Then, in Episode III, originally the big confrontation between Sidious, Dooku and Anakin was going to rhyme very overtly with the confrontation in Episode VI, a symmetry that was broken when it was moved to the film's opening.

 
I’m convinced George Lucas must have said something mean about Wagner.

[Chen G. 3,990]

I am genuinely surprised Lucas never made that parallel.

 

Wagner sorta wrote The Ring backwards - Lucas feigns to have written Star Wars in a similar fashion

 

Wagner was definitely interested in creating certain symmetries (e.g. Rheingold being regarded a Vorabend to mimic the form of Gotterdamerung itself), and then we have Lucas with his "Rhyhming stanzas."

 

Wagner wrote about (knowing, deliberate) incest between twins, and Lucas' "it was all planned!" would posit that the same happens between Luke and Leia.

 

Wagner swore by philosophers, most notably Schopenhaur (whose works he actually read too late to be much influence on The Ring), in much the same way that Lucas swears by Bettelheim and Campbell

 

It would write itself, had Lucas decided to make the parallel. ESPECIALLY since the Jahrhundertring started literally one years before Star Wars released. I'm assuming Wagner is a little beyond him... Certainly, beyond superficial similarities, the two cycles could not be more different.

 

The funny thing is, Wagner also did the kind of revisionist history Lucas is doing. He would have us believe his musical education mostly came down to six months of learning counterpoint with Theodore Weinlig: we now know it was over three years! Very similar to Lucas and his "I sorta fell into film." Makes them seem like savants.

[Faleel 5,400]

"Both Rings were round and there the resemblance ceases"... err wait, wrong quote!

[Mr. Hooper 1,854]

I guess, then, Jakku was meant to "rhyme" with Tatooine? I think Lucas saw it less as rhyming and more as copying and a lack of creativity, and criticized 'The Force Awakens' for not showing us new, interesting worlds.

 

Anyway, I agree that some of this rhyming might be intentional, and the rest is fans looking to draw parallels. But it makes for lively discussion...

[Chen G. 3,990]

Jakku was conceptualised and to some extent designed still under Lucas. It was always a junkyard, desert planet.

 

Basically, yet another Barsoom.

[Mr. Hooper 1,854]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Jakku was conceptualised and to some extent designed still under Lucas. It was always a junkard, desert planet.

Ah. I heard that he criticized TFA (or maybe it was the sequel trilogy in general) for recycling ideas. But if they're actually his as you say, then we'll just say they rhyme.

[Tallguy 3,421]

Doing Tatooine 2.0 seemed like an unforced error. There's lots of wasteland you can do without sand dunes. The defining trait of Jakku struck me as it's garbage and it's poverty. (At least the Rey part. I don't know what the Ming part was supposed to be.) But they made it a sandy desert and everyone thinks "Tatooine" and suddenly you get "It's a shot for shot remake of Star Wars."

[Chen G. 3,990]

Tatooine was also a junkyard in places: certainly Mos Eisley looked like that.

 

Lucas already prefigured that repetition with Geonosis: I always find the cross-cutting in the middle of Attack of the Clones very unsatisfying because you're cutting from Obi Wan on a desert planet to...Anakin on another desert planet and it honestly sometimes takes me a moment to remember which one we're now on... And if Tatooine and Jakku are Barsoom equivalents, then Geonosis...

[Mr. Hooper 1,854]

If they weren't intentionally going for Tatooine vibes with Jakku, they certainly didn't mind if the audience made that positive association with something they fondly remember...

 

But on the subject of creativity, I guess there are basically only so many different environments they can show: arid desert planet, lush forest/jungle planet, planet covered in water, city planet, canyon planet...

[greenturnedblue 372]

The Jakku in the Force Awakens concept art book had a lot more to it than what was put to film. There was a lot more emphasis on the scrapyard and wasteland components

 

The scrapyard as seen in Andor was a lot more intriguing

[Chen G. 3,990]

16 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

Andor was a lot more intriguing

 

[Schilkeman 986]

7-9 don’t count in the scheme, although I’ve seen some people try. He never made them, the treatments were short, and I’m sure would have been changed drastically if he actually got around to making them, which he wouldn’t have. The story was done. He wrote the treatments to sell to Disney. 
 

A shame we never got the dark times show. 
 

All I’ll say about why he hasn’t promoted the structure more is that he has hinted at it from time to time, his infamous “It’s like poetry, it rhymes,” but also:

 

The interesting thing about Star Wars—and I didn’t ever really push this very far, because it’s not really that important—but there’s a lot going on there that most people haven’t come to grips with yet. But when they do, they will find it’s a much more intricately made clock than most people would imagine.

 

And he’s right. It ultimately isn’t that important. We can follow the story just fine without it, but it’s a nice extra layer, and it does create moments of rather profound resonance.

 

I think the reasons why he brings up Kurosawa and Campbell are not as wholly self-serving as they get made out to be, and more to the point, his talk on the prequels has been much more consistent than the sometimes apocryphal statements he’s made on the OT.

[Faleel 5,400]

4 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Ah. I heard that he criticized TFA (or maybe it was the sequel trilogy in general) for recycling ideas. But if they're actually his as you say, then we'll just say they rhyme.

Wasn't that James Cameron?

[Schilkeman 986]

6 hours ago, Presto said:

Wasn't that James Cameron?

Bob Iger said that George's response to seeing TFA was, "There's nothing new.," and to Charlie Rose he said, "I worked very hard to make them completely different, with different planets, with different spaceships – you know, to make it new." 

14 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I’m convinced George Lucas must have said something mean about Wagner.

Please, I like the man enough. Finding out he hates Wagner would be icing on the cake.

15 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Then, in Episode III, originally the big confrontation between Sidious, Dooku and Anakin was going to rhyme very overtly with the confrontation in Episode VI, a symmetry that was broken when it was moved to the film's opening.

Lightsaber fights are one of those things that do not fit the mirrored rhyming scheme (mirrored, as in ABCCBA, not parallel as in ABCABC) as they are always at the end of the film (except for Sith, where they seem to happen every 10 minutes, lol).

 

The III-VI ring is minor, so where it takes place in the film is less important than having a throne room scene somewhere. Obviously, the symmetry with fights in III and VI are the Obi-Wan/Anakin and Luke/Vader duels. The Dooku duel is a trifle, meant to show Anakin's increased power. A bit like the Sail Barge fight in Jedi.

 

The opening of Sith is doing quadruple duty, calling back to the start of TPM, with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon on the droid ship, fulfilling the "movie-within-a-movie" sequence from RotJ, finishing off the story started in AotC, and, most importantly to the scheme, mirroring the Death Star battle from ANH. None of which touches on the character development happening in these scenes. And does it all in under 25 minutes. I find it a wonder plot mechanics and efficient storytelling.

 

To clarify further, TPM and RotJ are parallel, not mirrored. Unlike the other two. This is signified by the pan up at the start of AotC. Actually a lot is signified by that pan up, but that's another topic.

 

TPM/RotJ and AotC/ESB are very strong, and easy to analyze in this way. Admittedly, RotS/ANH is a little messier. RotS's connection to RotJ is stronger than, say, TPM to ANH, and its role as the climax of the series gives it more import and complication than ANH, but the broader plot mechanisms are more or less in place.

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,854]

51 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

his talk on the prequels has been much more consistent than the sometimes apocryphal statements he’s made on the OT.

Yeah, I'm much readier to accept what Lucas says about the prequels as fact. He had a clearly defined vision for them, while 'Empire' and 'Jedi' grew out of the runaway success of 'Star Wars', and he had to grope and find his way through... But when you're held up as a visionary storyteller, it doesn't sound great to admit that, so he's been prone to embellishing.

[Schilkeman 986]

16 hours ago, Tallguy said:

First off none of that gets me to care about Attack of the Clones.

I wasn't trying to. Just stating a thing I think is cool. It's totally fine to understand something, and not like it, or even respect the craft with which it was made, and not like it. I don't need a show of hands to see who agrees with me. I've been a prequel fan for 25 years. The hate has nothing for me.

[Schilkeman 986]

17 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Where I really break with @Schilkeman's analysis is where you make the jump to include Jabba's palace as more of a coda to Empire.

The opening segments of Sith and Jedi have pretty hard stops when they finish. I think you could maybe argue that Empire does after Luke is rescued, but I don't think ANH stops at all.

[Tallguy 3,421]

2 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

I wasn't trying to. Just stating a thing I think is cool. It's totally fine to understand something, and not like it, or even respect the craft with which it was made, and not like it. I don't need a show of hands to see who agrees with me. I've been a prequel fan for 25 years. The hate has nothing for me.

 

I didn't mean you trying to get me to care about AotC. I meant George.

[Gabriel Bezerra 308]

15 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

The Jakku in the Force Awakens concept art book had a lot more to it than what was put to film. There was a lot more emphasis on the scrapyard and wasteland components

So... Bracca from Fallen Order?

 

[Tallguy 3,421]

Fallen Order is good all around. But that opening intro and level is just amazing world building.

[ThePenitentMan1 754]

On 10/01/2024 at 11:24 PM, Presto said:

we have the revised crossover insert clean ending and openings from the Radio Drama

 

 

 

New edit is done!

 

 

[DarthDementous 1,060]

I don't buy Ring Theory. Especially with the way Schilkeman tried to explain it by having all these different ridiculously convoluted caveats whenever it didn't fit the pattern, it smacks of confirmation bias and bending the movies over backwards to fit in that narrow perspective. It's especially telling how varying amounts of vagueness the comparative texts can be, stripped back just enough so it can superficially resemble whilst ignoring the wildly different contexts and details.

I believe that there's intentional rhyming, I do not believe that it's as rigorous or fixed of a structure as Ring Theory makes it out to be.

[Schilkeman 986]

32 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

It's especially telling how varying amounts of vagueness the comparative texts can be, stripped back just enough so it can superficially resemble whilst ignoring the wildly different contexts and details.

The different context is what gives the repetition it’s resonance and meaning. Without it, we just get the same movie backwards.

[Mr. Hooper 1,854]

This had me guffawing.

 

 

[Schilkeman 986]

I love the first 20 and last 40 minutes of Jedi, but will admit I find it the weakest overall of the main six. I will, however, always love it for the gift it was to the EU. It broadened the galaxy in a way the first two simply didn't, or couldn't. I don't think Star Wars would have been kept alive in the 90s without it. It was my first Star Wars love, and I find myself appreciating it again, despite its faults.

[Gabriel Bezerra 308]

Have any of you read The High Republic? I don't usually read much but I went for it with Light of the Jedi and now I'm halfway through Rising Storm and picked up the main comics too, as some characters from LotJ continue there.
 

Of all the books and comics, The High Republic seems like an obvious project to make a soundtrack album like Shadows Of The Empire. Come on Disney, call Joel McNeely, let him do his thing... I don't want to hear a random theme from Flash (1990) coming into my head anymore when the Nihil pop up. I fear who they'll choose as a composer for Acolyte.

[JTN 2,152]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/2FNHkblBEa0

[Chen G. 3,990]

On 14/01/2024 at 12:16 PM, DarthDementous said:

I believe that there's intentional rhyming, I do not believe that it's as rigorous or fixed of a structure as Ring Theory makes it out to be.

 

Its also a different format. The "rhyming" idea is that Episode I most closely resembles the original (it better, being that its based on one of its early drafts), Episode II resembles Episode V, and Episode III resembles Episode VI. And, as you say, its in the broadstrokes, not something that controls the specifics of the each entry. "Ring" theory suggests that Episode I corresponds, rather, with Episode IV, and Episode III corresponds with the original.

 

And, most importantly, how any of it makes any of the films or the series any more enjoyable is beyond me.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,524]

Tough situation.

 

Ewan McGregor Talks Making ‘Panned’ ‘Star Wars’: ‘It Was Weird to Be in a Film That Was Hammered, and We Still Had to Make Two!’

[JNHFan2000 2,975]

 

[Edmilson 7,524]

Obi-Wan season 2?

[Bespin 8,495]

1 hour ago, JNHFan2000 said:

 

 

They'll probably announce that the title of Obi-Wan Kenobi season 2 will be "Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon", and that it will be a movie instead. 😄

[Tallguy 3,421]

Well, Ewan has been very chatty about how "he doesn't know anything" lately.

 

Do you know how many YEARS of "Hello there" memes I went through before I realized that was supposed to be a callback to Ben's entrance in Star Wars?

[Nick1Ø66 4,742]

Ah. An announcement announcing an announcement. I suppose once we started getting trailers for trailers, anything became possible. And to think someone in another thread said this wasn't the greatest time in history to be alive.

 

No matter. I always look forward to the next Disney announcement for a project that will never be made.

[mstrox 6,658]

It’s Empire.  I’m sure it’s a “The Future of Star Wars” piece or issue. and not some grand reveal.

[Chen G. 3,990]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Obi-Wan season 2?

 

Obi two!

 

Yeah, I'll show myself out...