Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)

[Faleel 5,350]

Nah.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,350]

I am also unsure if the Warg theme is in DOS. I think that is actually part of Smaug's themes like in the BOTFA main titles.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,350]

It's the Warg theme! Sounds like it.

So does the bit in Fire and Water and Beyond Sorrow and Grief!

And in one of the Smaug tracks in DOS.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,364]

I am also unsure if the Warg theme is in DOS. I think that is actually part of Smaug's themes like in the BOTFA main titles.

Absolutely 100% the Warg's theme in the DOS main titles. No idea why you'd think otherwise.

Even if all of our ears didn't agree, Doug confirmed it.

It's the Warg theme! Sounds like it.

So does the bit in Fire and Water and Beyond Sorrow and Grief!

Timestamp? I don't hear Warg Theme in that track at all....

And in one of the Smaug tracks in DOS.

Which one?

[Faleel 5,350]

4:26 of Smaug.

0:23 and 0:53 of Fire and Water, 1:35 of Beyond Sorrow and Grief.

[Jay 37,364]

Yea I see the correlation now!

I am sure those moments are not meant to relate to the wargs, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Faleel 5,350]

And not to forget the moment in Flies and Spiders right before the Shire/Bilbo's Adventure theme.

BTW I a,m looking forward to the DVD/Blu-ray, the end credits had some unreleased music (the microedited bits of Ruins of Dale and Shores of the Long Lake)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

You think it's coincidence that in AUJ, in the film version of An Ancient Enemy, when Thorin says Azog died of his wounds, there is the same descending motif playing that appears in BOTFA, for example in Ironfoot, after Bard's new theme?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MedigoScan 324]

I am sure BB, that the Balin scene comes right before the chestnut scene in the movie

unless my showing moves scenes around for some reason

besides I think the start of 'Dragon Sickness' sounds like the kind of music you play when Bilbo is sneaking around outside

if any music from there was tracked to the Balin scene I cant remember, all I know is that the Balin scene had some music but not what

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Barnald 365]

Maybe the theme will score Bard's coronation in the EE? If it's tied to his leadership then that would make sense. Could it be a Bard/Dale theme?

[Jay 37,364]

Bard's coronation? He's not royal...

[Wojo 2,453]

The King of Dale is the hereditary title of the rulers of Dale after the refounding of the realm by Bard in TA 2941.

Kings of Dale (TA 2944 - FO ?)

1 Bard the Bowman(TA 2944 – TA 2977)

2 Bain(TA 2977 – TA 3007)

3 Brand(TA 3007 – TA 3019)

4 Bard II(TA 3019 - FO ?)

http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/King_of_Dale

He becomes the first king. Maybe they voted for him...

[Jay 37,364]

Ah, cool.

The film really needs a resolution showing who becomes kings of Erebor and Dale after the battle is over. Some kind of explanation for why the whole battle was even worth fighting - something about what defeating Sauron's forces meant for Middle-Earth would be nice too. Does Gandalf even tell anyone that the reason the orcs are there is because Sauron is in fact not dead, or does everyone who fought assume the orcs where there for some other reason?

[MedigoScan 324]

He said that the orcs were there because of the strategic value of Erebor and something about connecting its forces with Gundabad to gain dominance in the north

dont remember who he said this too though

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bard, I think.

But Sauron isnt mentioned anywhere.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

They put a lot of effort into making the North sound threatening and dangerous, only for it to never be heard of again in Lord of the Rings. Lame.

[MedigoScan 324]

what did the north do anyway in the books?

[Jay 37,364]

They put a lot of effort into making the North sound threatening and dangerous, only for it to never be heard of again in Lord of the Rings. Lame.

Yup, same thing I've been thinking about. Obviously with LOTR being made first and no guarantee they'd ever get to make TH, it wouldn't have made much sense for them to spend time in the LOTR films talking about Erebor, Thorin, Lake-town, etc etc.

But I am sure if they had made The Hobbit first and then LOTR, there would have been some mention of Beorn, Bard, Dain, etc during The War Of The Ring.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The only thing left in LotR is in the extended edition of Return of the King. There's a short scene with Legolas and Gimli sitting on horseback, watching the Rohirrim leave Edoras.

Gimli: "Horsemen! I wish I could muster a legion of Dwarves, fully armed and filthy."

Legolas: "Your kinsmen may have no need to ride to war. I fear war already marches on their own lands."

I always liked that exchange, but I see why it was cut from the theatrical version. It raises more questions than it answers.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Even in the book the full extent of the War of the Ring is only made clear in the Appendices.

The biggest battle is the one that is featured the least in these films. The Last Alliance between Elves and Men!

The events of LOTR and the Hobbit are a mere footnote in the annals of the Ring.

[Jay 37,364]

Yup!

[gkgyver 1,645]

What's it supposed to score?

It belongs where it is on album, immediately after the arrow pierces Smaug. I could hear a snippet of it last time I saw the film. It's 90% drowned/cut however.

They put a lot of effort into making the North sound threatening and dangerous, only for it to never be heard of again in Lord of the Rings. Lame.

The threat of Angmar was crushed in BOTFA with the army defeated, and Azog and Bolg dead. The threat in LotR comes from Mordor obviously, which is set up in Dol Guldur. A threat from Gundabad doesn't exist in the LotR movieverse anymore.

The movies are separate entities, always were.

You can call these writers many things, but not stupid.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I didn't gather that from BotFA at all. The movie is very unclear on the battle's actual outcome.

[crocodile 8,017]

There is a battle but it's soon abandoned in favour of that sequence with Thorin and gang. Is Bard even in the final part of this film?

Karol

[MedigoScan 324]

I think he was there to listen at the blowing of the horn, but without speaking lines

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,364]

How weird would it be if all the biggest score highlights are in EE cues

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MedigoScan 324]

well i dont mind that Laketown doesnt get miraculously repaired overtime in the movie

but they do need some sort of happy closure

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The same thing happened in ROTK if I recall correctly

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,364]

With LOTR, the films placed so much emphasis on The One Ring, we as viewers know once it's destroyed that everything will be right in Middle-Earth. Seeing a bunch of other battles doesn't matter.

With The Hobbit, the films place an emphasis on Thorin reclaiming Erebor and then defending it, but he dies, his 2 closest relatives (Fili and Kili) die, and as far as the viewer knows (in the TC) Dain dies, so there's really no resolution to the main story at all. Only Bilbo gets an ending.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep. the Hobbit trilogy lacks a unified goal and purpose.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,350]

I thought the goal was for Bilbo to get there and back again?

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I thought the goal was for Bilbo to get there and back again?

I thought so too until I saw the big Erebor prologue tacked onto AUJ.

[Faleel 5,350]

I thought the goal was for Bilbo to get there and back again?

I thought so too until I saw the big Erebor prologue tacked onto AUJ.

As opposed to tacked onto the Misty Mountains song?

And I have no problem with PJ trying to "noble up" the Dwarves in TH, seeing how much Jerks (More Mim than Gimli) they can be in the book sometimes.

[Jay 37,364]

Was thinking about this today. Since it seems like Dragon Sickness is indeed film cues after all and not a theme presentation, does anyone want to volunteer any guesses for why Shore would choose to include it in the bonus track section rather than in the flow of the main score, like he did with The Trollshaws for AUJ and The Necromancer for DOS?

I'm sure the quick answer would be "listening experience", but does anyone want to venture any more specific possible reasons?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Yep. the Hobbit trilogy lacks a unified goal and purpose.

lol

What?

Reclaiming Erebor and slaying a dragon isn't a unified goal then?

[Kühni 485]

.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yep. the Hobbit trilogy lacks a unified goal and purpose.

lol

What?

Reclaiming Erebor and slaying a dragon isn't a unified goal then?

But after they've achieved this, there's still over two hours of film to go. If the goal of the trilogy was to slay the dragon and reclaim Erebor, what was the point of everything after the third film's opening credit?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

Yep. the Hobbit trilogy lacks a unified goal and purpose.

lol

What?

Reclaiming Erebor and slaying a dragon isn't a unified goal then?

But after they've achieved this, there's still over two hours of film to go. If the goal of the trilogy was to slay the dragon and reclaim Erebor, what was the point of everything after the third film's opening credit?

$$$

There's easily hours worth of redundancy in the entire trilogy, but MGM don't give a shit about that.