Star Trek is better than everything

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

Dear All,

A quick question:

What is the timescale between TMP and II, IV and V, and V and VI?

Thanking you in advance 

[Giftheck 1,034]

TMP: The actual year is never stated in any source, but it does take place in the 2270s.

WOK: 2285

TVH: 2286

TFF: 2287

TUC: 2293. For bonus points the prologue of Generations also takes place in 2293.

[Andy 5,216]

This is bloody brilliant 

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

It's even got the TAS music!

[Andy 5,216]

The subtlety of the rotoscoped movement when Riker charges forward is perfection. 

[Tallguy 4,569]

I love that they have a Kzinti at con!

13 minutes ago, Andy said:

The subtlety of the rotoscoped movement when Riker charges forward is perfection. 

 

It's the TAS charge!

[Andy 5,216]

Yep, and the grapple with the Borg was used not only for TAS, but also for Filmation's Flash Gordon series too.  The person who made this was paying attention.

[Tom Guernsey 2,739]

2 hours ago, Andy said:

This is bloody brilliant 

 

 

That is brilliant, they even have the slightly awkward pacing down to a tee. Is it disturbing that I knew which episode it was before the Borg even appeared just based on Riker's dialogue about leaving the nebula?!

[Tallguy 4,569]

2 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

That is brilliant, they even have the slightly awkward pacing down to a tee. Is it disturbing that I knew which episode it was before the Borg even appeared just based on Riker's dialogue about leaving the nebula?!

 

Nope. But then, I might not be a reliable judge.

[Tom Guernsey 2,739]

5 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Nope. But then, I might not be a reliable judge.

Haha, I feel very reassured now ;-)

[Tallguy 4,569]

One night my wife decided to watch Star Trek after I had gone to sleep. I heard one note and shouted into the pillow "City on the Edge of Forever!" She was oddly unimpressed.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

I'd get another wife, mate, if I were you.

[Andy 5,216]

Your goal should be to get the wife to shout Star Trek titles into the pillow!

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

I've heard of "pillow biter", but that's ridiculous! 

[Andy 5,216]

"Turnabout Intruder!!!!!"

"Corbomite Maneuver!!!!!"

"Where No Man Has Gone Before!!!!"

[Holko 10,401]

"SPOCK'S BRAAAAAAAAIN!!!!!!"

[Tallguy 4,569]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

"Turnabout Intruder!!!!!"

 

That's not an episode I have memorized.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

Nor should it be. It's terrible.

[rough cut 1,744]

Call me crazy, but I’ve had a craving for 90’s TV:s charm lately (so does my wife apparently, who is rewatching Charmed).

 

So I turned to Star Trek The Next Generation.

 

Oh, dear, whatever has become of me! I remember watching reruns after school, 12 years old, on the living room floor in front of the telly, waiting for my mom to come home.

 

So, where to start? I’m not about to embark on a 176 episodes long (or 134 hours non-stop) journey.

 

So I googled, and found this. 25 essential episodes.

 

www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-the-next-generation-essential-episodes/

 

The list didn’t include S01E01 Encounter At Farpoint, so I’ve cheated and started with that.

 

I was pleased to see that the episodes streaming are the ones with updated FX, since I’ve not seen them before.

 

The FX are great. The music is great. It’s campy, but I’ll be damned if the actors aren’t great and the whole thing is just a guilt pleasure-bomb.

 

Looking forward to the “next” episode!

[Tallguy 4,569]

I find the first season of TNG to be nearly unwatchable. But I still adore Encounter at Farpoint. Weird, huh?

[Andy 5,216]

8 hours ago, Holko said:

"SPOCK'S BRAAAAAAAAIN!!!!!!"

[Positivatee 327]

3 hours ago, rough cut said:

 

So I turned to Star Trek The Next Generation.

 

Oh, dear, whatever has become of me! I remember watching reruns after school, 12 years old, on the living room floor in front of the telly, waiting for my mom to come home.

 

So, where to start? I’m not about to embark on a 176 episodes long (or 134 hours non-stop) journey.

 

So I googled, and found this. 25 essential episodes.

 

www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-the-next-generation-essential-episodes/?amp

 

The list didn’t include S01E01 Encounter At Farpoint, so I’ve cheated and started with that.

 

I read through that list. It hits on all the essential TNG episodes, and omits all the stinkers. 

 

Encounter at Farpoint *is* on the list... The author simply pairs it with the series finale at the end of the list. I'm sure that watching it bookended with All Good Things... would make it more compelling for the trial story. 

 

The list can't include every episode. Notable omissions include Elementary Dear Data/Ship in a Bottle, The Pegasus, and Relics. Personally I would include The Next Phase as well. Fortunately, the count of Wesley episodes is low. 

[artguy360 1,910]

6 hours ago, rough cut said:

Call me crazy, but I’ve had a craving for 90’s TV:s charm lately (so does my wife apparently, who is rewatching Charmed).

 

So I turned to Star Trek The Next Generation.

 

Oh, dear, whatever has become of me! I remember watching reruns after school, 12 years old, on the living room floor in front of the telly, waiting for my mom to come home.

 

So, where to start? I’m not about to embark on a 176 episodes long (or 134 hours non-stop) journey.

 

So I googled, and found this. 25 essential episodes.

 

www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-the-next-generation-essential-episodes/?amp

 

The list didn’t include S01E01 Encounter At Farpoint, so I’ve cheated and started with that.

 

I was pleased to see that the episodes streaming are the ones with updated FX, since I’ve not seen them before.

 

The FX are great. The music is great. It’s campy, but I’ll be damned if the actors aren’t great and the whole thing is just a guilt pleasure-bomb.

 

Looking forward to the “next” episode!

Such a great show. I feel like there are so many good/great episodes that don't get represented on best of TNG lists.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

Sub Rosa.

Don't. Just... don't.

[rough cut 1,744]

On 15/04/2022 at 12:25 AM, Positivatee said:

I read through that list. It hits on all the essential TNG episodes, and omits all the stinkers. 

 

Encounter at Farpoint *is* on the list... The author simply pairs it with the series finale at the end of the list. I'm sure that watching it bookended with All Good Things... would make it more compelling for the trial story. 

 

The list can't include every episode. Notable omissions include Elementary Dear Data/Ship in a Bottle, The Pegasus, and Relics. Personally I would include The Next Phase as well. Fortunately, the count of Wesley episodes is low. 

 

Thanks for the input!

 

On 15/04/2022 at 2:55 AM, artguy360 said:

Such a great show. I feel like there are so many good/great episodes that don't get represented on best of TNG lists.

 

You know, as both of you suggest, after watching Farpoint, I couldn’t help but wondering what I would be missing (oh, my God, is FOMO a real thing!?). So I decided to do a quick comparison to other Best of-lists. There are a a lot consistencies, but they’re always about 30-50 % different. So I decided to add the ones that Den of Geek might’ve missed.

 

I ended up with 5-12 episodes per season (62 episodes all in all, which is about 1/3 of the entire show) + I decided to add the 4 movies that exist to the list.

Number of episodes per season:
 

Spoiler

 

So… looking at the large amount of content considered “best”, the aggregated list isn’t a quick guide to the essential episodes - it’s too lengthy for that (a testament to the high quality of the show, I guess) - but rather a compromise between only watching one of the lists of 10-30 episodes truly considered to be essential and watching the entire thing.

 

Here’s the updated list:

 

Spoiler

Star Trek TNG - Best of, according to

• Den of Geek
• ScreenRant
• Looper
• SlashFilm
• Collider
• Bonus (added by me)

Season 1

DoG: Season 1; Episode 1 & 2 - Encounter At Farpoint

Collider: Season 1; Episode 9 - The Battle

Bonus: Season 1; Episode 10 - Hide & Q

Collider: Season 1; Episode 13 - Datalore

DoG: Season 1; Episode 25 - Conspiracy

DoG: Season 1; Episode 26 - The Neutral Zone

 

Season 2

Collider: Season 2; Episode 3 - Elementary, Dear Data

DoG: Season 2; Episode 9 - The Measure Of A Man

Collider: Season 2; Episode 10 - The Dauphin

DoG: Season 2; Episode 16 - Q Who

DoG: Season 2; Episode 20 - The Emissary

 

Season 3

SR: Season 3; Episode 2 - The Ensigns of Command

DoG: Season 3; Episode 4 - Who Watches The Watchers

SR: Season 3; Episode 6 - Booby Trap

Collider: Season 3; Episode 7 - The Enemy

Looper: Season 3; Episode 10 - The Defector

SR: Season 3; Episode 11 - The Hunted

Bonus: Season 3; Episode 13 - Deja Q

DoG: Season 3; Episode 15 - Yesterday’s Enterprise

DoG: Season 3; Episode 16 - The Offspring

DoG: Season 3; Episode 17 - Sins Of The Father

DoG: Season 3; Episode 23 - Sarek

DoG: Season 3 and 4; Episode 26 and 1 & 2 - Best Of Both Worlds / Family

 

Season 4

Collider: Season 4; Episode 3 - Brothers

DoG: Season 4; Episode 7 - Reunion

CB: Season 4; Episode 11 - Data’s Day

DoG: Season 4; Episode 12 - The Wounded

SR: Season 4; Episode 15 - First Contact

Bonus: Season 4; Episode 20 - Qpid

Looper: Season 4; Episode 21 - The Drumhead

SlashFilm: Season 4; Episode 22 - Half A Life

DoG: Season 4 and 5; Episode 26 and 1 - Redemption

 

Season 5

DoG: Season 5; Episode 2 - Darmok

DoG: Season 5; Episodes 7 & 8 - Unification

SR: Season 5; Episode 14 - Conundrum

DoG: Season 5; Episode 17 - The Outcast

SR: Season 5; Episode 18 - Cause And Effect

Collider: Season 5; Episode 19 - The First Duty

DoG: Season 5; Episode 23 - I Borg

Looper: Season 5; Episode 24 - The Next Phase

DoG: Season 5; Episode 25 - The Inner Light

Looper: Season 5 and 6; Episodes 26 and 1 - Time’s Arrow

 

Season 6

SlashFilm: Season 6; Episode 4 - Relics

Bonus: Season 6; Episode 6 - True Q

DoG: Season 6; Episode 10 & 11 - Chain Of Command

Looper: Season 6; Episode 12 - Ship In A Bottle

DoG: Season 6; Episode 15 - Tapestry

DoG: Season 6; Episode 21 - Frame Of Mind

Looper: Season 6; Episode 25 - Timescape

 

Season 7

Looper: Season 7; Episode 11 - Parallels

Looper: Season 7; Episode 12 - The Pegasus

DoG: Season 7; Episode 15 - Lower Decks

SR: Season 7; Episode 19 - Genesis

DoG: Season 7; Episodes 25 & 26 - All Good Things

 

Movies

Bonus: Star Trek Generations

Bonus: Star Trek First Contact

Bonus: Star Trek Insurrection

Bonus: Star Trek Nemesis

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

GENERATIONS?! The best TNG film???!!!

LMFAO! 

[rough cut 1,744]

I just added all of them. Seems that if I ever get to the end of S7 (after 45.5 hours if you follow my list), I might as well watch the four movies that exist.

[Docteur Qui 1,575]

Didn’t look like the movies were ranked in quality, just chronological order?!?

[rough cut 1,744]

Adding the movies adds about 7.5 hours in viewing time, and I’ve no idea if it’s “essential viewing” in terms of TNG-lore, but my reasoning is “if they thought it was good enough to be worthy of a cinematic release, it ought to be worthy of a watch - and at least be able to match the top 1/3 of the series.”

 

And there seems to be some iconic moments in there - for example Picard meeting Kirk in Generations.

[Giftheck 1,034]

First Contact expands on the Borg lore, in a manner that has stretched through both Voyager and Picard.

[Disco Stu 15,503]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

GENERATIONS?! The best TNG film???!!!

LMFAO! 

 

Generations is indeed the best TNG film

[Positivatee 327]

57 minutes ago, Stu said:

Generations is indeed the best TNG film

 

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

 

Generations is indeed the best TNG film

Again... 

[Disco Stu 15,503]

It's kinda funny how it follows a somewhat similar trajectory of the first two TOS cast films.  The first one that actually has ambition to be consciously "artful" and about something important, which disappoints commercially, and then a followup that is a back-to-basics action flick with one of their respective series' most iconic villains.

 

Anyway, I understand not loving Generations as much as I do, but I don't see how its laughable that I do.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

It's just a bit of fun, Stu. GENERATIONS has never ceased to divide critics and fans alike. I can't talk; my favourite TNG film is NEMESIS (yes, really!).

 

[rough cut 1,744]

I can reveal that I actually saw that one in the theaters back in the day!

[Tallguy 4,569]

I could easily make the argument that the best TNG movie is Generations. I could just as easily (and with more popular support) argue for First Contact. But that's it, any other consideration is nonsense.

[Disco Stu 15,503]

4 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I could easily make the argument that the best TNG movie is Generations. I could just as easily (and with more popular support) argue for First Contact. But that's it, any other consideration is nonsense.

 

I'll go to bat all day for Insurrection being pretty darn good though (obviously not the best one).

[Tom Guernsey 2,739]

56 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I could easily make the argument that the best TNG movie is Generations. I could just as easily (and with more popular support) argue for First Contact. But that's it, any other consideration is nonsense.

Generations just isn’t as good as it should be and has lots of weird moments like the pointless Picard family tragedy which is shoehorned in to make the nexus seem even more appealing to him. But the plot is one of the worst for logical inconsistencies (like firing a subsonic rocket to a sun and it taking minutes to get there, it’s not like they could easily have used some standard Star Trek tech to make it more plausible). Plus there’s no reason for it anyway. Kirk’s death is still pretty meaningless. But the Enterprise D looks amazing (save for the shots they recycled from the tv stock footage which sticks out like a sore thumb) and the crash sequence is superbly realised. I have always really liked Dennis McCarthy’s score. He’s no Jerry or James Horner but not many people are. And it’s a lot more fun than Nemesis’s score which probably goes down as Jerry’s least interesting Star Trek effort. Then again he has precisely zero awe and wonder to score which he did so well in the earlier films.

 

So which TNG film has the best score?!

[Naïve Old Fart 10,530]

28 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

So which TNG film has the best score?!

Imho, and speaking personally, like the films, the scores get better as they go on.

[artguy360 1,910]

I enjoyed Stewart's performance as Picard in Generations. He explored some more emotional sides of Picard. 

[Giftheck 1,034]

I feel like Generations feels more like a two-part episode stretched out into a movie. It's not bad, it's far from the 'worst' of the franchise (looking at you, Into Darkness) but I personally wouldn't rate it the best of the TNG films.

 

As for the best TNG film score: I personally like First Contact's score the most, though Nemesis' score comes a close second. It was criminal not to use Goldsmith's theme for Generations though.

[Disco Stu 15,503]

I have a big 'ol soft spot for the beautiful pastoral music Jerry wrote for the Ba'ku in Insurrection.  It's not my favorite TNG score, but it is my favorite opening cue for a TNG score.

 

Plus he nails the best scene in the movie:

 

 

[rough cut 1,744]

So, I think I just encountered the first episode I’d like to scratch from the list of essential TNG:

• Season 1; Episode 25 - Conspiracy

While the plot surely was intriguing, and it had some unexpected FX (gore!), I was disappointed that it ended on a cliffhanger… nothing wrong with that, the plot almost seem to demand it, but it was unsatisfying to find out that the larger storyline hinted at, is unresolved. While the immediate mystery and threat is dealt with, the insinuated larger threat, looming deep in the vastness of space, is never seen or heard of again (is what google tells me, at least).

 

I was genuinely shocked at the level of gore in a cookie-cutter show as this. Click on the spoiler if you don’t believe me! It’s not so graphic so that it takes you out of the story, just a bit unexpected is all.

 

Gore:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Judged as a stand-alone episode it’s very good, so maybe I’m being overly harsh, judging it with the eyes of someone expecting far and deep reaching plot lines á la what is common practice today.

 

Still, that is what will cause this episode to be cut out of the essential list. Such a high-stakes premise - the federation infiltrated and the top brass mind controlled by a previously unknown alien race who is still out there and who also knows the location of the Earth, and it’s just a matter of time before they arrive - and then to never mention any of it again in any further episodes, seems to me like the writers didn’t care enough about the story, or knew what to do with it. So why should the viewer?

 

But I guess there is no lack of alien threats in the TNG universe, so onto new adventures!

[Positivatee 327]

We can blame two things. According to various sources, Gene was a very hard taskmaster in S1, so a lot of writers were fired or quit. Also, there was a writers' strike in S2 that left it shorter than the others. After the dust settled, I don't blame them for deciding to not revist the horror story and gross-out elements of the Conspiracy bugs. The writer credited for the story also came up with s1e18 Home Soil; Conspiracy was his last Star Trek episode. The script writer left the show in Season 2. It's possible these were casualties of the strike and Gene. 

 

The S1 season finale The Neutral Zone introduced a plot device of bases being dug out of planets in both Federation and Romulan space, which became season 2's Borg. So writers picked and chose which plot devices would continue. 

 

The concept of bodysnatching aliens who infiltrate Starfleet Command and influence policy would be used HEAVILY in Deep Space Nine, but they would be shape-shifting Dominion Founders instead of insects. (To a lesser extent, Voyager uses the same plot device when Species 8472-867-5309 simulates SF Command for a planned invasion.) 

 

Unfortunately, the great promise of the Conspiracy bug aliens is never seen again

 

Although beardless Riker is very willing to eat worms here, yet bearded Riker hesitates when served gagh on the Klingon exchange ship in season 2. Inconsistent writers as TNG got its legs. 

[Giftheck 1,034]

5 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

Although beardless Riker is very willing to eat worms here, yet bearded Riker hesitates when served gagh on the Klingon exchange ship in season 2. Inconsistent writers as TNG got its legs. 

 

Or, as Q put it: "Oh, you're so stolid! You weren't like that before the beard!"

[artguy360 1,910]

13 hours ago, rough cut said:

So, I think I just encountered the first episode I’d like to scratch from the list of essential TNG:

• Season 1; Episode 25 - Conspiracy

While the plot surely was intriguing, and it had some unexpected FX (gore!), I was disappointed that it ended on a cliffhanger… nothing wrong with that, the plot almost seem to demand it, but it was unsatisfying to find out that the larger storyline hinted at, is unresolved. While the immediate mystery and threat is dealt with, the insinuated larger threat, looming deep in the vastness of space, is never seen or heard of again (is what google tells me, at least).

 

I was genuinely shocked at the level of gore in a cookie-cutter show as this. Click on the spoiler if you don’t believe me! It’s not so graphic so that it takes you out of the story, just a bit unexpected is all.

 

Gore:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Judged as a stand-alone episode it’s very good, so maybe I’m being overly harsh, judging it with the eyes of someone expecting far and deep reaching plot lines á la what is common practice today.

 

Still, that is what will cause this episode to be cut out of the essential list. Such a high-stakes premise - the federation infiltrated and the top brass mind controlled by a previously unknown alien race who is still out there and who also knows the location of the Earth, and it’s just a matter of time before they arrive - and then to never mention any of it again in any further episodes, seems to me like the writers didn’t care enough about the story, or knew what to do with it. So why should the viewer?

 

But I guess there is no lack of alien threats in the TNG universe, so onto new adventures!

There are some very good Star Trek retrospectives that explain some of the production issues that cause the inconsistencies in season 1 and 2 of TNG, if you are interested. You can discard the overwhelming majority of season 1 and 2 from any best of TNG list. Maybe 3 truly great episodes tops from both seasons combined.

[rough cut 1,744]

No need for me to have extended info on any inconsistencies, I’ll take it for what it is.

Found another stinker in the list:

• Season 2; Episode 10 - The Dauphin

Wesley falls in love with a girl after meeting her for about five minutes, and then it turns out she is actually a man in a monkey suit with bug eyes. The script also tries to make us believe that it was true love which is just very hard to believe.

 

Spoiler

 

On the other hand, I also watched ‘Q Who’ that introduces the Borg and it’s bonkers how good it was.

[GerateWohl 5,160]

I don't remember many details about The Next Generation. I watched it, when it came out on TV here in Germany.

I just remember, that I thought, it became quite good when the kid Wesley Crusher vanished from the show.

Nothing against Wil Wheaton, but I didn't like his character in the show.

[Tallguy 4,569]

5 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I don't remember many details about The Next Generation. I watched it, when it came out on TV here in Germany.

I just remember, that I thought, it became quite good when the kid Wesley Crusher vanished from the show.

Nothing against Wil Wheaton, but I didn't like his character in the show.

 

That's more than halfway through the show.