filmmusic 1,843 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Harry-Gregson Williams:Dear all,I would like it to be known for what it's worth that the 'score' for Blackhat maybe credited to me, but contains almost none of my compositions. I attended the premiere of the movie at the end of last week and discovered, to my horror, music that shocked and surprised me...quasi emotional (synth) string pieces that I'd never heard in my life before. I knew of at least one other composer, a good one at that(!), that had put in months of work on this movie just as I had, but this appeared to me to be in addition to both our contributions. To be honest, I'm not sure, as I'm having a hard time understanding what I heard and why it was there and I can say nothing for certain except that I was not the author of most of what is now in the movie. I feel like I want to point this out for anyone who like me cares about these things, as my name is right there listed as the lead composer and one would expect that credit to mean something, but it doesn't. And I do care about that.I therefore reluctantly join the long list of composers who have had their scores either sliced and diced mercilessly or ignored completely by Michael Mann. This is his film and these are his decisions and I do respect that, but see no reason to have people mistake this score for one that I composed, or in any way approved of musically. The 90 minutes of score that I did write and deliver is, as I've said, mostly unused.I would still encourage you to check out his movie, as you may enjoy it.Harryhttp://www.ibtimes.co.uk/blackhat-composer-accuses-director-michael-mann-slicing-dicing-his-score-1483210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Last Of The Mohicans all over again!Any idea who the other composer is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,843 Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Last Of The Mohicans all over again!Any idea who the other composer is?I think it's Atticus Ross?Or is it, it's his music that substituted Williams'?I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums§ion=findpost&pid=1082693 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Michael Mann responds to Gregson-Williams' criticism:http://variety.com/2015/biz/news/michael-mann-responds-to-composers-criticism-1201406396/“Harry’s a talented composer whose music needed editing and remixing to fit the very contemporary subject and ambitions of my picture,” said Mann. “He was one of four composers who contributed to the score – along with Atticus and Leo Ross, Ryan Amon and Mike Dean. It would have been preferable to me, too, if the delivered music could have been used as it was.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Is there an Allen Smithee pseudonym equivalent for film composers?If not, who wants to help me come up with one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hans Zimmer? Think about it.... Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Michael Mann responds to Gregson-Williams' criticism: http://variety.com/2015/biz/news/michael-mann-responds-to-composers-criticism-1201406396/“Harry’s a talented composer whose music needed editing and remixing to fit the very contemporary subject and ambitions of my picture,” said Mann. “He was one of four composers who contributed to the score – along with Atticus and Leo Ross, Ryan Amon and Mike Dean. It would have been preferable to me, too, if the delivered music could have been used as it was.” No surprise there. Mann is another an William Friekin. In other words, an arrogant cunt with a God complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Has this movie been embraced by the critics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 “Harry’s a talented composer whose music needed editing and remixing to fit the very contemporary subject and ambitions of my picture,” said Mann. “He was one of four composers who contributed to the score – along with Atticus and Leo Ross, Ryan Amon and Mike Dean. It would have been preferable to me, too, if the delivered music could have been used as it was.”Doesn't compute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hans Zimmer?Think about it....Does not compute. There's already a Hans Zimmer. An ACTUAL Hans Zimmer. Bibliography, pictures, interviews, and everything..........What are you saying? That "Hans Zimmer" is not a person, but a pseudonym for film composers who are completely unsatisfied with the way their product is used in the final cut of a film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yeah. Not his first time doing this, either. Arrogant cunt indeed. He could learn a thing or two about respecting one's collaborators from Chris Nolan, who I hope thinks twice about praising Mann after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 This is nothing new. Last Of The Mohicans anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 “Harry’s a talented composer whose music needed editing and remixing to fit the very contemporary subject and ambitions of my picture,” said Mann. “He was one of four composers who contributed to the score – along with Atticus and Leo Ross, Ryan Amon and Mike Dean. It would have been preferable to me, too, if the delivered music could have been used as it was.”Doesn't compute.Atticus and Leo are the same person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ah, so they're conjoined twins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ah, so they're conjoined twins?Or just schizophrenic.Hey, that reminds me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 This is nothing new. Last Of The Mohicans anyone?Exactly. Welcome to Hollywood. HG-W could cry on Alex North's shoulder, and listen to his story about 2001.Still, that doesn't justify the behavior. Mann (and other such directors) could at least do the composer the courtesy of informing them that their music has been rejected, or recut to fit the film, and remove their name from the credits (it would piss me off to hear crappy music attributed to me, too).The fact that four composers contributed to this film also speaks volumes to the fact that Mann can't seem to figure out how to collaborate intelligently with the musicians he needs to create a score. Initial scoring attempts are often set aside for an alternative, but four? That's on the director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I agree. Total communication breakdown = scoring disaster for the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Gregson-Williams should have hired another director. I blame him for not doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 They just needed a really comfy leather settee during the spotting sessions, that's all this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 “Harry’s a talented composer whose music needed editing and remixing to fit the very contemporary subject and ambitions of my picture,” said Mann. “He was one of four composers who contributed to the score – along with Atticus and Leo Ross, Ryan Amon and Mike Dean. It would have been preferable to me, too, if the delivered music could have been used as it was.”Doesn't compute....Four! Our four chief composers are: Harry Gregson-Williams, Atticus and Leo Ross, and Ryan Amon... and Mike Dean! FIVE! Among our FIVE composers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 They just needed a really comfy leather settee during the spotting sessions, that's all this is.And some masseuses on stand-by. Never underestimate the motivating power of getting touched by a woman.Then again, it might prove more distracting than motivating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Michael Mann has worked like this for years. He tends to have 3 or more composers write original music, and then picks and chooses what he likes to combine with songs.With Last Of The Mohicans, wasn't it just a case of there not being enough time for Trevor Jones to write everything? The sad part is that bringing on Edelman disqualified the score for an Oscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 That was not the case. First Jones worked on the film, did his music, then Edelman was brought in. Apparently without Jones's knowledge.It was Edelman who produced the OST even though most of the music on it wasn't his.He did insist on having both their contributions segregated so there could be no doubt as to who wrote what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I believe it. Anybody seen the Public Enemies recording sessions list? That was a mess - I wouldn't find it at all hard to believe if I heard Goldenthal refused to work with Mann again. Anyway, what happened to Harry Gregson-Williams? He had Kingdom of Heaven and The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe in 2005, two awesome scores, and just piles of crap since (with the exception of Prince Caspian). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Michael Mann should stick to using his own CD collection for his films. I think he'd make good use of it and it would save everyone a lot of bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 This incident has stirred up a lot of very amusing chatter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Michael Mann should stick to using his own CD collection for his films. I think he'd make good use of it and it would save everyone a lot of bother.But if he'd always done that, we wouldn't have the excellent score from Heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,915 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Déjà vu (starting at around 9:30 to the end) Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 But if he'd always done that, we wouldn't have the excellent score from Heat.And even with lots of thematic material missing from the CD, we should be grateful for what's heard in the film. I wager there's even MORE unused material barely heard in the DVD supplements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 This boring ass POS Michael Mann schlock demanded 4 composers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Alas not all directors are collaborative and even then some are fidgety second guessers who in their insecurity about the movie put a lot of fault to the music and then tinker relentlessly with it to improve their film even though the problems might lie elsewhere. Scoring by a committee is nothing new nor are rejected scores though. Sadly some directors use the composer's output as a part of a raw material storage they can raid to be used in a film where ever they want so that there is no trace of the composer's skill and artistry as a film composer in play in the resulting hodgepodge of a musical collage. In other words library music would have sufficed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Has this movie been embraced by the critics?They are calling Blackhat a misfire from Mann. The audience agrees, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Harry-Gregson Williams will feel vindicated then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Alas not all directors are collaborative and even then some are fidgety second guessers who in their insecurity about the movie put a lot of fault to the music and then tinker relentlessly with it to improve their film even though the problems might lie elsewhere. Scoring by a committee is nothing new nor are rejected scores though. Sadly some directors use the composer's output as a part of a raw material storage they can raid to be used in a film where ever they want so that there is no trace of the composer's skill and artistry as a film composer in play in the resulting hodgepodge of a musical collage. In other words library music would have sufficed.Which is exactly what happened to Alien (and its sequel, even under a different director), as karelm cited above. It's scoring from a pool rather than by spotting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal_Ozzel 36 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I guess it would have been preferable if Mann had delivered a film that could be enjoyed as it was. fommes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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