Jay 37,374 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 What cue are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Jango's Escape.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'd like to hear something memorable that makes me want to listen to it over and over again. You know, the complete opposite of War Horse, Tintin, Indiana Jones IV and whatever else he's done in the last decade that I've forgotten about.In fairness, the complete "Jungle Chase (Alternate)", at 9:30, is as close to a sister track of "Belly of the Steel Beast (Complete)" as we're ever likely to get.Where can I find this?I edited this together using the 4 separate cues in the KOTCS recording session leak. The less mickey-mouse alternate Williams wrote to end the chase makes for a far more thrilling climax than the cartoony film version. I'd post it on YouTube but I'm currently stranded in Indonesia thanks to a volcano. True story! I like this cue. But that might have something to do with it being largely untouched in the film. Which was rare for prequels.KarolIt's surprising that it appears unedited in the film. I've grown to appreciate it but it's certainly not on my iPod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'd post it on YouTube but I'm currently stranded in Indonesia thanks to a volcano. True story!Yeah, right! crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'd like to hear something memorable that makes me want to listen to it over and over again. You know, the complete opposite of War Horse, Tintin, Indiana Jones IV and whatever else he's done in the last decade that I've forgotten about.In fairness, the complete "Jungle Chase (Alternate)", at 9:30, is as close to a sister track of "Belly of the Steel Beast (Complete)" as we're ever likely to get.Where can I find this?I edited this together using the 4 separate cues in the KOTCS recording session leak. The less mickey-mouse alternate Williams wrote to end the chase makes for a far more thrilling climax than the cartoony film version.I'd post it on YouTube but I'm currently stranded in Indonesia thanks to a volcano. True story!It's surprising that it appears unedited in the film. I've grown to appreciate it but it's certainly not on my iPod.End of this video. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,641 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 End of this video. KarolListening to this video reminded me of how limp KOTCS's action music could sound. Almost to the point where it doesn't sound like Williams. The aforementioned bit is nice though. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 End of this video. KarolListening to this video reminded me of how limp KOTCS's action music could sound. Almost to the point where it doesn't sound like Williams. The aforementioned bit is nice though.It's not the complete segment, though.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Can't blame Williams too much considering the material he had to work with. The abundance of alternates for "Call of the Crystal" is a clear sign JW was as clueless as the audience as far as what Spielberg was trying to accomplish with the film. An utter mess that only feels like an Indiana Jones score imitation until the Raiders March makes its customary cameo. Let's hope he took more inspiration from whatever JJ cooked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 4, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted November 4, 2015 I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's nothing "unfocused" about modern Williams action music. There's an immense level of unity and organic composition, the only difference being that the building blocks are small motivic cells or similarly elusive collections rather than easily spotted eight-bar themes. It demands more from the listener. Write it off as uninteresting intellectual masturbation, but it's the same John Williams that you've always loved. He's just gotten more brilliant. It's on us to either catch up or mope about it. After this many decades I won't begrudge him an evolving approach. Arpy, Jilal and Incanus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 We don't like Williams for his intellectual writing! We like him for his big heroic fanfares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Who is this "we" you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Everyone but you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I bet he can't even humm the Superman theme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 But I'm sure he can whistle all the themes from the super-brilliant The Book Thief!Oooh ooooh ooooh I can too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Of course, you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Music is a subjective thing. People don't simply "misunderstand his brilliance" if they don't like his modern action music.It can best be described as a relentless onslaught of minor motivic ideas moving from one part of the orchestra from note to note. Whether you like this or not is entirely up to the listener.It's like calling people who hate R&B music stupid because they only like pop. Different strokes, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 You just don't "get it", crumbs. You don't have "the Gift"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 No one called anyone stupid. I suggested that people not write the music off as something less than what it is. I don't care if you like it or not. No need to respond with vehement platitudes. You are not under attack. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 You are not under attack.Exactly what an attacker preparing an assault would say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted November 4, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm really tired of people mistaking the memorability of a theme with its quality.The POTC theme is very much widely recognized today. As for its quality... Arpy, Taikomochi and Not Mr. Big 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Hum... Déjà vu... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 But there's good memorable and there's stupid memorable. You need to be a gifted and skilled composer to achieve the right balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think some people are guilty of mixing up 'memorable' and 'catchy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Methinks some people are mixing up 'catchy' and 'crafty'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 If Williams wrote the POTC theme and performed it with a full symphonic orchestra people would laud it on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Where did the "John Williams wrote BTTF" myth begin? I remember seeing it for the first time in 2000 when files on Napster would show up saying "John Williams - Back to the Future - Theme" and I thought maybe people tagged it with Williams' name instead because they thought it would show up better in people's search as they might not necessarily know who Alan Silvestri is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think the people sharing the file on Napster just put the name of the only film composer they knew, and thanks to the magic of the Internet, the rumor spread around the globe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think it's Steven Spielberg's fault for assuming the actual score was a Williams temp track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Where did the "John Williams wrote BTTF" myth begin? I remember seeing it for the first time in 2000 when files on Napster would show up saying "John Williams - Back to the Future - Theme" and I thought maybe people tagged it with Williams' name instead because they thought it would show up better in people's search as they might not necessarily know who Alan Silvestri is.You just answered your own question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 If Williams wrote the POTC theme and performed it with a full symphonic orchestra people would laud it on here!"Wow, what swashbuckling fun from Maestro Williams! A pirate's life for me, indeed!""Oh, Zimmer? How boring. Where are the woodwinds? What a depressing sign of the times, proof that everything definitely was better back in my day." crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,293 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Where did the "John Williams wrote BTTF" myth begin? I remember seeing it for the first time in 2000 when files on Napster would show up saying "John Williams - Back to the Future - Theme" and I thought maybe people tagged it with Williams' name instead because they thought it would show up better in people's search as they might not necessarily know who Alan Silvestri is.You just answered your own question.The Spielberg association probably added to it as well.It may have been deliberate but I also think when it comes to big popular themes for blockbusters of the 70s-90s, when in doubt people just tend to default to JW without thinking. It's like how every parody (or even just comedy) song gets attributed to Weird Al Yankovic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 If Williams wrote the POTC theme and performed it with a full symphonic orchestra people would laud it on here!The Carl Davis conducted version always made me think exactly that. But John Williams fans are generally dicks, so it's always been something else for me to shrug indifferently about. crumbs and Dixon Hill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I prefer the Imperial March: KarolThis is by Chopin, Funeral march from the piano sonata in B flat minor!!! Not Mozart!!! How could the uploader make such a mistake? It is worse than crediting Williams for Back to the Future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Just look at how many themes Williams wrote for Tintin, War Horse, Lincoln... he's been pretty theme heavy lately! I've forgotten all those themes. Yeah. There were obviously themes in those movies, but they were almost more like motifs than strongly defined themes. Williams hasn't really written an old-style, theme-driven score since HARRY POTTER 3.This is just categorically untrue! How can you possibly think that's true????Because for me, it is. We don't disagree that there are themes. We disagree that the post-HP3 scores have the same kind of developped, "hummable" (if you will), well-defined themes of yesteryear. That's a purely subjective thing. Your take is no more or less "true" than mine.I like a lot of JW's post-HP3 output, but it's a rather different territory. The more rhythmic, harmonic exploration-type things he did with stuff like SLEEPERS and A.I. (and to an extent, the SW prequels) have been developped further and nurtured more consequently in the last 10 years. Personally, I think this "new" Williams (sort of) was one that returned on the scene in 2008 after a 3-year break from film scoring.I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. This is a case of your own interests in film music changing, not John Williams' writing. War Horse and Lincoln are filled with extremely long-lined, highly melodic themes. Tintin had a great long-lined theme for Haddock and a cracking theme for the scrolls, but I'll give you that his themes for Tintin, Snowy, and the Thompsons are fairly short. Anyways, I dunno what it can possibly be that you're not hearing in War Horse. That's as classic of a Williams score as we've gotten in 20 years! Arpy and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Jason, please stop being a ridiculous fanboy. Tintin, War Horse and Lincoln...great? They are cookie cutter Williams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The third one there is as eloquent as Williams has ever been. Taikomochi and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,521 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. This is a case of your own interests in film music changing, not John Williams' writing. War Horse and Lincoln are filled with extremely long-lined, highly melodic themes. Tintin had a great long-lined theme for Haddock and a cracking theme for the scrolls, but I'll give you that his themes for Tintin, Snowy, and the Thompsons are fairly short. Anyways, I dunno what it can possibly be that you're not hearing in War Horse. That's as classic of a Williams score as we've gotten in 20 years!I would appreciate it if you stopped using terms such as 'nonsense' and 'untrue'. We're talking subjective evaluations here; let's try to be more constructive.I adore WAR HORSE for many reasons (especially the pastoral writing which he always does well), but that doesn't change the fact that I think that -- as well as all his scores after 2005 -- don't have the same kind of thematic writing as before. You may not agree with that, and think it's as classic John Williams as it gets, but I don't share that view. Composers constantly evolve, and I think this last decade has seen Williams moving into slightly different territory with his concert works, and some of that has seeped into his film writing as well. He seems very keen on exploring harmonic variations, to an extent I've never seen before, as well as all things 'rhythmical'. The strong themes of yesteryear only appear marginally, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It DOES, however, make you wonder what "Finn's Theme" or any other new theme in the STAR WARS film will sound like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 It is neo-JWFan doctrine that any who hold opinions at odds with those of the regime must be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 You said John Williams hasn't written a long-lined theme since 2005; I said he did for War Horse and Lincoln. This isn't a matter of opinion, its a fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Very glad to hear this news. I was terribly disappointed when there was no Fin Theme in Jaws. Not Mr. Big and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 You said John Williams hasn't written a long-lined theme since 2005; I said he did for War Horse and Lincoln. This isn't a matter of opinion, its a fact!Jor-el! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I do agree with Thor. But I would argue that this trend started before Prisoner of Azkaban. That was already a very different score.A.I. must have unlocked a completely different part of his brain!The Adventures of Tintin. War Horse, Lincoln and The Book Thief are yet another thing. As many have notes, Williams started to develop multiple smaller themes for these films and it's often hard to identify the "main one" (hail. Hydra?). I find this very interesting.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Of course his writing in the 2010s is different than in the 2000s, 90s, 80s, etc - no one is debating that.But War Horse has long-lined, developed, and melodic themes! That's all I'm saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,293 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The Adventures of Tintin. War Horse, Lincoln and The Book Thief are yet another thing. As many have notes, Williams started to develop multiple smaller themes for these films and it's often hard to identify the "main one" (hail. Hydra?). I find this very interesting.I would agree with that. In terms of the kinds of tuneful melodies, orchestral sweep, and emotional directness that characterize "vintage" Williams, though, I do think there's plenty of that in War Horse....I'm mixed on the score in context with the film and I don't think it's a perfect album or anything overall, but it's weird to me to think of a typical JW fan not getting anything out of "The Homecoming" suite if nothing else. Those 8 minutes showcase so much of what I've always loved about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 But War Horse has long-lined, developed, and melodic themes! That's all I'm saying!Yes, they are. Of course they are. But because there are so many "important" themes in the score, it's hard to really decide which is "the theme". The big John Williams tune, if you will. And that's also visible on Tintin. Yes, he does have a developed theme. But it doesn't seem to be the main driving force behind it all. Williams basically treated this film as if it was "just another Tintin adventure".With Lincoln, it's probably slightly different. Given that most of the album material is a not even in the film was merely presenting various attempts of Williams trying to crack the code (I should listen to this one more).Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Tintin's theme is actually pretty bad by Williams standards. Meanwhile, I'm listening to Harry Potter 1 and Williams constantly comes up with these one-off bits of music that are strong to enough to be themes that carry an entire score. Tintin's theme should have been one of those moments (and it would've been a mediocre one at that), not the fucking theme. But what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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