Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'm shocked by the criticism of the score. Not just here, but seemingly everywhere. Would we have preferred Hans Zimmer or MIchael Giacchino? A score that sounded like the RCP trailer music?? No, really, people are complaining that the score didn't sound like the trailer music or that the trailer music wasn't on the OST. This actually happened. Jesus H. Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Most people here like the score, even if they expected it to be better.I think you're just referring to the average moviegoer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I must admit I've fallen off most of the threads after they "took off". When it was only me and a couple of others who had seen it, it was more manageable to keep up. This place is so active!In either case, it's a bit early for me to land on a proper judgement.First impressions are still a bit on the disappointed side, due to its "whimsical" nature. To me, it sounds like someone approximating a sound he left behind a long time ago, but has no energy or desire to properly get right. It SOUNDS Williams, but it doesn't FEEL Williams (I'll copyright that last sentence).I guess that's why "Rey's Theme" is the strongest, the theme that is closest to his contemporary stylings (WAR HORSE, THE BOOK THIEF).But I've only seen the film once, and heard the soundtrack twice. I need more time. Ricard and gkgyver 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Having listened to the CD release many times and seen the film once, the score is definitely very good but lacking some elements I have come to know and love from Star Wars scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Seriously? It's a far more energetic score then Williams' last two ventures into a beloved franchise (ROTS and KOCS).It isnt as immediately gripping on album as much of his Golden Age stuff is, but that been the case since the mid-90's, with a few rare exceptions.The exceptional complexity of his music often don't shine through at first and it takes patience and time to slowly unfold these aspects. There is less to latch on to at a first listen. Modern John Williams music is NOT for the casual, easy listening soundtrack enthusiast! obiwan71 and Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Hester 0 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Just got back from seeing the film. My first thought is that I'm torn. More call-backs to original themes than I had expected, which was good I suppose. Disappointed with the new themes ... I literally cannot recall one of them. As a kid I left the theater humming the Imperial March, and all the other themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 It's a far more energetic score then Williams' last two ventures into a beloved franchise (ROTS and KOCS).Energy isn't everything! I think ROTS is a vastly superior score for many reasons. I'm not sure how I would put it compared to KOTCS yet. Maybe a bit weaker, or same.I'm well aware that Williams has developped. That's why I think he's currently stronger with material of a different kind, where he gets to explore more textural things in a less "retrospective" fashion.But it's great that so many of you don't share my initial skepticism, and embrace this with open arms! As I guessed, reactions to this would be wildly different. gkgyver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 ROTS is one of his weakest big blockbuster scores. Not by lack of trying, but by lack of having anything substantial to work with. KOCS was stodgy and dull for the most part.TFA has far more life to it. Yes the new themes aren't as hummable as the beloved old ones, but that's a criticism that's been leveled at JW since...The Lost World?He doesn't write like that anymore with only some very rare exceptions. And it's more noticeable in these socalled "retrospective" works where he is required to mix old with new. Jacck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think ROTS is one of the strongest scores he's written in the last 15 years -- for blockbusters or otherwise. Definitely in my Top 5, post-2000. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Musically, ROTS is very beautiful and satisfying. It has the unfortunate task of having to portray a darker emotional palette, and as a result is not as energetic as the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think that's one of the reasons why I like it so much. I'm not all that obsessed with "energy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Revenge of the Sith has some epic tragic and villainous music. It's fantastic for at least a solid 40 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 It has loads of what I call "delicious darkness" -- a sound I care very much about. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think that's one of the reasons why I like it so much. I'm not all that obsessed with "energy".Don't latch one to one aspect of my opinion in an attempt to ridicule me. Im not disrespectful of your opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think ROTS had more to work with in terms of culminating the entire Star Wars saga (at that time). So much of the score has the sound of finality to it. I think JW really wrote it like it was going to be the last Star Wars score he would ever write, and the movie had the right material to support that kind of music. TFA is a new beginning and issues with the score aside, it's not the right film for that kind of epic, culminating, celebration of all things Star Wars with years of story and characters to wrap up that the ROTS score had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think that's one of the reasons why I like it so much. I'm not all that obsessed with "energy".Don't latch one to one aspect of my opinion in an attempt to ridicule me. Im not disrespectful of your opinion!Sensitive much?I was not ridiculing your opinion. I'm saying "energy" isnt' necessarily an aspect that I put in the high seat, like you and others. I veer more towards other aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Revenge of the Sith has some epic tragic and villainous music. It's fantastic for at least a solid 40 minutes.The action music is the least of the Prequels. The tragic elegy type stuff feels like it's going though the motions rather then actually portraying drama and loss, and I don't like Battle Of The Heroes.Sure there is good stuff there, but not enough for me to sustain interest. dead_lizard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Modern John Williams music is NOT for the casual, easy listening soundtrack enthusiast!I absolutely agree. "Nothing hummable" seems to be all people care about and well, I kind of get what they mean. A simple, catchy melody can be the easiest connection between the story, its characters and the general audience. And Williams is pretty much known for his mastery in making these connections, so they have expectations.Williams' writing has definitly gotten more and more refined in the last 15 years and it's not that he isn't as melodic as in the 1970s/80s, but his style has evolved and the themes have a "complex simplistic" quality, as opposed to a simple simplicity..Don't know if that makes sense...So in short: I REALLY love that score. Score and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 6 posts to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 The reactions to it are pretty extreme.I see a trend of it being praised the most by those who enjoy his non-film concert works the most on this boardI have mitigated feelings about it, but for now it ranks below all the Prequel scores (I love RotS). I also like Crystal Skull better too I think. I don't hear anything that comes close to the complete Jungle Chase in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yeah, the reactions are all over the place -- from wild, unadulterated praise to indifference to mild disappointment to out-right bashing. As expected, I would guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I love the score and I don't listen to his concert output all that much.Also, reactions are hardly extreme. People either think its OK, but a bit underwelming, or they love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yeah, the reactions are all over the place -- from wild, unadulterated praise to indifference to mild disappointment to out-right bashing. As expected, I would guess.To be able to craft a piece of art, that evokes so many diverse reactions is a pretty remarkable achievement by Mr. Williams in itself, I guessI love the score and I don't listen to his concert output all that much.Also, reactions are hardly extreme. People either think its OK, but a bit underwelming, or they love it.Only among filmmusic fans, other SWfans (non trolls just fans) seemto find it rather weak from what I have read online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think some of the cues have the vibe of his concert works, like Music for Brass...etc..I can see Williams put a lot of work into it and it's definitely NOT autopilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think many people want it to sound more 80's then it does.It's a typically modern JW score. Closer to the Prequels then the OT overall, but with a bit more heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think many people want it to sound more 80's then it does.It's a typically modern JW score. Closer to the Prequels then the OT overall, but with a bit more heartDon't forget the lighter more adventurous tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Usually theres more cues I want to play on repeat endlessly. Even Book Thief had someAlso it doesn't have that big JW moment like the end of Plowing from War Horse. Jedi Steps kind of tries to get there but stops short Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think there is a general consensus that it is a good score, not the best Star Wars score, lacks easily hummable themes, and takes many listens to appreciate. For me, the only knocks I have against the score heard in the film is the lack of great action cues, too many uses of the force theme, and some out of place flourishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yeah, the action cues in the first half of the score are weaker than the Grevious material in Sith (the weakest part of that score)I voted "not sure yet" until I see the filmIF I am obsessed with the complete score and finding unreleased cues in videogames, then it will equal RotS, AotC and IJKOTCSRight now it is on par with Tintin in my books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I don't know why people say Rey's melodies aren't hummable or memorable. I love that kind of writing.I wanted, like... more diverse themes, but that might have to do with the film in part, I don't know.The score is enjoyable as hell. It made me realize too that I barely listen to the prequels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I see a kind resignation that it's not great in a lot of people's posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_vader 534 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I like the score, Rey's Theme is beautiful. Kylo Ren's motif is perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Me too.To be fair, I'm guilty of imagining way too many things about the score before listening to it.The OST is better than the Crystal Skull OST but if I have to go with what Jay says that might be simply because that OST was poorly assembled.The Tintin motif would fit in this score. I don't know why I keep thinking that. Like there's that bit in I Can Fly Anything that makes me think that.The Resistance theme still sounds like villain music to me. But that might be the general war/military vibe of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I see a kind resignation that it's not great in a lot of people's postsYou seem to be eternally petrified about what other people think.I care about other opinions, but not over my own. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yeah, the action cues in the first half of the score are weaker than the Grevious material in Sith (the weakest part of that score)I voted "not sure yet" until I see the filmIF I am obsessed with the complete score and finding unreleased cues in videogames, then it will equal RotS, AotC and IJKOTCSRight now it is on par with Tintin in my booksWhile I kind of agree with the Tintin comparison, I think the thematic material for Rey, Kylo Ren, and the Resistance give this score more depth than the Tintin score. That score I find to be kind of mindless fun without any emotional material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think it echoes what I really think about it instead of forcing myself to like it of falsely convince myself it's a masterpiece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Me too.To be fair, I'm guilty of imagining way too many things about the score before listening to it.Thats a problem many Williams fans have, especially when it comes to sequel scores of stuff he scored in his Golden Age.He doesn't write like that anymore! Let it go and enjoy what we have in its proper context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 and why don't you like RotS then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think it echoes what I really think about it instead of forcing myself to like it of falsely convince myself it's a masterpieceWell you convinced yourself KOCS is a masterpiece, and ROTS. Both are inferior to this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Me too.To be fair, I'm guilty of imagining way too many things about the score before listening to it.Thats a problem many Williams fans have, especially when it comes to sequel scores of stuff he scored in his Golden Age.He doesn't write like that anymore! Let it go and enjoy what we have in its proper context.No no that's not it. I entirely expected the sound of Tintin and War Horse, and I said that several times before I think. Hell, I wanted that because they're awesome. I meant I imagined more diversity and extremes in tone and thematic writing. Not that it would sound 'old'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 and why don't you like RotS thenTrust me, i wanted to love ROTS. I loved TPM, and AOTC. But the magic just went away with ROTS for me. I tried and tried.I blame Lucas, obviously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'm also disappointed by the renditions of the old themes in this score, none of them are specially inspired (Han and the Princess for example)The force theme in Farewell and the Trip is good though (by the way that's one of my favorite tracks) Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'm also disappointed by the renditions of the old themes in this score, none of them are specially inspired (Han and the Princess for example)The force theme in Farewell and the Trip is good though (by the way that's one of my favorite tracks)I've read this criticism of the Han and the Princess material a lot but I don't get it. The music works really, really well for those scenes and is very fitting. I feel like JW made exactly the right decision with those scenes and people hoping for something bigger or more creative aren't considering that those scenes are very quiet and can't support that kind of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Han Solo and the Princess sounded dissapointing in ROTJ too. The problem is that after TESB the theme is only really used in dialogue scenes, not in sweeping action or adventure stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Han and the Princess had at least 2 good renditions in RotJ, like when Han is unfrozen. It was kind of weird in the Land of the Ewoks cue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I kind of found it disappointing that in ROTJ its only ever played on woodwinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 It is played by full strings in Han Solo Returns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Nobody voted no.It's hard to hate, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well this is JWFan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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