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The Return Of The King COMPLETE RECORDINGS 4CD set


sandman609
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is this the same as the booklet that we'll get with the CR?

This (as well as the other files from the other two movies) is the Cue by cue breakdown.

The booklet in the CD package is the thematic analisys.

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Still, Stewart McIlwham, LPOPO’s principal piccolo, will always remember the orchestra’s participation in this monumental production. “The Lord of the Rings project is probably the biggest film score that the LPOPO will ever take part in. Just in the sheer numbers—in the three films, plus the extra DVD music you are getting close to 200 three-hour sessions. Having worked with John Williams on Star Wars: The Phantom Menace it was interesting to compare how Howard Shore approached the creation of this score. With Williams all themusic was completed, orchestrated and ready to be put down in a relatively short time.

With The Lord of the Rings, director Peter Jackson was on hand at most of the sessions, so he and Howard worked in a totally different way. We would record a four or five minute piece, then they would listen to it with the movie. Sometimes we would spend the rest of the session subtly refining just this one cue. Howard would change the orchestration, adding a different instrument here, sometimes removing a whole violin section

there.

hmmm if Lucas onlywould have done it that way... well guess it's easier just recording them and then recutting them.. :dance: *sheeee*

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Why?

I prefer Williams way of Working.

That way he composes coherently...for the 1st draft of the movie he sees... If we could get the complete scores its always his version.

With shore its a mix of his version and what Jackson wanted.

And it seems Williams is more confident on what he writes. Shore is more unsure... (though the alternates of Williams are done this way..so i dont think that musician is speaking all the truth...)

And the 6 two hour SW movies have almost the same amount (or more?) of music than the 12 hour LOTR ones.

Plus, there are lots of edits and dialing outs in these (LOTR) movies too, specially ROTK. So in the end having the director and the rescores 'in session' did not worked either...

And really isnt orchestrating and meddling 'in situ' a waste of time and money (the musicians have to be hired for more hours...)?

Reading the booklet i noticed that the eagles music i was looking for is part of 'for frodo' and not 'the eagles'. :dance: I noticed the two cues were way too sepparated... but i dint make the connection with the other eagle scene...

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hmmm if Lucas onlywould have done it that way... well guess it's easier just recording them and then recutting them.. mellow.gif *sheeee*

It would probably result in an even better score if Lucas didn't enter the recording stage at all :dance:

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With shore its a mix of his version and what Jackson wanted.

Which is what it's supposed to be. They're collaborators after all, and the composer is under the director's supervision.

Plus, there are lots of edits and dialing outs in these (LOTR) movies too, specially ROTK. So in the end having the director and the rescores 'in session' did not worked either...

I think Jackson wasn't present at the RotK sessions. They had an uplink to New Zealand where he could here the music in surround sound in real time and give his directions from there.

At least I remember something like that being on the EE extras.

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Why?

I prefer Williams way of Working.

That way he composes coherently...for the 1st draft of the movie he sees... If we could get the complete scores its always his version.

With shore its a mix of his version and what Jackson wanted.

And it seems Williams is more confident on what he writes. Shore is more unsure... (though the alternates of Williams are done this way..so i dont think that musician is speaking all the truth...)

And the 6 two hour SW movies have almost the same amount (or more?) of music than the 12 hour LOTR ones.

Plus, there are lots of edits and dialing outs in these (LOTR) movies too, specially ROTK. So in the end having the director and the rescores 'in session' did not worked either...

And really isnt orchestrating and meddling 'in situ' a waste of time and money (the musicians have to be hired for more hours...)?

Reading the booklet i noticed that the eagles music i was looking for is part of 'for frodo' and not 'the eagles'. :) I noticed the two cues were way too sepparated... but i dint make the connection with the other eagle scene...

I think LotR afforded Shore and Jackson to collaborate in a deeper fashion. The process of creating this music was a one long period where ideas were exchanged and those evolved into new things. They worked on this project for more than 4 years. Time or the lack of it is one factor that interferes with the compositional process a lot. LotR recording sessions lasted for a month or so compared to the shorter recording times afforded to e.g. Williams in SW or in most scores these days. So Williams' music had to be fully ready for the recording sessions. They could not spare any time for making longer tweaks to the music. In part this results all those tracking issues in the Prequels as Lucas changed something in the last minute and Williams didn't even have the chance to score the new scene or a new version of the scene.

I do not think the fact that PJ and Howard were continually writing new things has anything to do with insecurity on either's part. It was a long and continuous creative process which in RotK's case was longer than in the previous films. I am sure Shore was prepared for the scoring sessions in a normal fashion but in RotK he had to accomodate constanly the filmmakers' changes, new scenes, extensions to the scenes that kept coming even in the latest stages of the post production. PJ did not make it easy as he was meddling (he would say perfecting) with the picture untill the last minute. As we know Shore had to write 6 minutes of music a day while at the scoring sessions which is a daunting challenge. Yet he rose to the occasion and wrote some of the most brilliant music in the whole trilogy. Even if Shore was very drained by the experience he was allowed to score those scenes which is not the case for JW with SW.

And is there a truly unedited score in any film in existence?

Plus there is a great difference how PJ and Lucas collaborated with the respective composers. PJ and Shore were continually exchanging ideas whether via satellite or in person. Williams spotted the film went away and wrote the score and then came to the recording sessions (this example is from Phantom Menace but I guess it could be applied to the Prequels in general). So we don't know how the music for the SW films would have changed if Lucas would have been on hand to give JW feed back on the music at regular basis.

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I think LotR afforded Shore and Jackson to collaborate in a deeper fashion. The process of creating this music was a one long period where ideas were exchanged and those evolved into new things. They worked on this project for more than 4 years. Time or the lack of it is one factor that interferes with the compositional process a lot. LotR recording sessions lasted for a month or so compared to the shorter recording times afforded to e.g. Williams in SW or in most scores these days. So Williams' music had to be fully ready for the recording sessions. They could not spare any time for making longer tweaks to the music. In part this results all those tracking issues in the Prequels as Lucas changed something in the last minute and Williams didn't even have the chance to score the new scene or a new version of the scene.
As we know Shore had to write 6 minutes of music a day while at the scoring sessions which is a daunting challenge. Yet he rose to the occasion and wrote some of the most brilliant music in the whole trilogy. Even if Shore was very drained by the experience he was allowed to score those scenes which is not the case for JW with SW.

Williams managed to rescore TPM battle for a second film edit.... Unfortunately what we have is a 3rd or 4th film edit...

As i said, in the end ROTK ended edited, tracked and dialed out. All that collaborative work for what? The score in the movie was treated more or less like like any other movie.

PJ did not make it easy as he was meddling (he would say perfecting) with the picture untill the last minute.

heh, that reminds me of some unnecked director in San Francisco.

So we don't know how the music for the SW films would have changed if Lucas would have been on hand to give JW feed back on the music at regular basis.

Mmm possibly worse?

IMO, putting that quote in the liner notes is misplaced. It just tries to bash Williams-Lucas, and in the case of Williams its very ill placed. On the other hand it fails miserably in the 'magical collaboration' aspect. Just remember King Kong.

With shore its a mix of his version and what Jackson wanted.

Which is what it's supposed to be. They're collaborators after all, and the composer is under the director's supervision.

And then happens that the Nature reclamation theme is associated with rohan for the rest of the trilogy, since Jackson wanted it for theoden in TTT...

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Please somebody agree with him that Star Wars is the superior, best-made, most original saga among all over filmic sagas ever and that we are all being hypocrites when bashing it because it's objectively superior, and be done with it.

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Please somebody agree with him that Star Wars is the superior, best-made, most original saga among all over filmic sagas ever and that we are all being hypocrites when bashing it because it's objectively superior, and be done with it.

Am i saying that?

I'm just critisizing the usage of that quote, for Williams sake.

Fuck lucas in this matter.

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Really?

You mean this quote?

Having worked with John Williams on Star Wars: The Phantom Menace it was interesting to compare how Howard Shore approached the creation of this score. With Williams all the music was completed, orchestrated and ready to be put down in a relatively short time.

It's a harmless comparison, Manuel.

Get over it already.

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Really?

You mean this quote?

Having worked with John Williams on Star Wars: The Phantom Menace it was interesting to compare how Howard Shore approached the creation of this score. With Williams all the music was completed, orchestrated and ready to be put down in a relatively short time.

It's a harmless comparison, Manuel.

Get over it already.

Others didnt seem to think that:

Did I just hear Manuel groaning?

I didnt thought that it harmed Williams, in the other hand it praised his craftmanship. But this is not the intended purpose of the quote...

I can get over it. but incanus reponded with a long post, and i could not leave the matter without responding.

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This very quote was on TTT annotated score too. ;) I thought i read it. becuase i remember the 'howard divisi' part

It seems i didnt take it offensive then...

Stefan corrupted my mind. He is true sith lord afterall...

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Please somebody agree with him that Star Wars is the superior, best-made, most original saga among all over filmic sagas ever and that we are all being hypocrites when bashing it because it's objectively superior, and be done with it.

Well, what can I say except "Hell no"?

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The annotated score encouraged me to listen to the OST again (which I haven't done for almost a year), and I completely forgot about some alternate takes that are beautiful. Especially the alternate beacon music!

And the extended choral piece in "Anduril" is certainly in the Top 5 of LotR's most chilling vocal parts.

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And the extended choral piece in "Anduril" is certainly in the Top 5 of LotR's most chilling vocal parts.

Sounds thrilling. Anduril has always been one of my favourite LOTR cues to begin with.

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Cool observation: when we see Mount Doom explode, the choir sings the lines:

Beneath the ground

Swollen hot with anger

Orodruin releases all its ruin

from the poem "The Mountain Of Fire".

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Cool observation: when we see Mount Doom explode, the choir sings the lines:

Beneath the ground

Swollen hot with anger

Orodruin releases all its ruin

from the poem "The Mountain Of Fire".

Very cool indeed. This is another layer in LotR scores I love so much. The lyrics are actually woven into the story scene by scene just like in opera. They are not just random words the choir is singing but they have actual meaning and relevance in the film even if the audience does not register them. As with many things in this trilogy there has been work that is done to do justice to the novel even if people won't acknowledge it. (e.g. sets being full of stuff we do not even see on the film but they are there to create a complete atmosphere).

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SHAMELESS PLUG TIME. If you can't wait until Nov 20th to get your The Return of the King Complete fix then check out my show for a sneak peak!

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - The Complete Recordings program is now on-line. Go to...

http://www.geocities.com/cinematicsound/

...to hear the show. On the program this week we will be presenting close to two hours of music from the forthcoming THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING - THE COMPLETE RECORDINGS 4 CD set which is due out on November 20th. We will also be presenting music from THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING and THE TWO TOWERS COMPLETE RECORDINGS during Hour 3. A big special thanks goes to Beth Krakower at CineMedia Promotions. Without her this show would not be possible.

Playlist

http://www.geocities.com/cinematicsound/pl.../nov_13_07.html

If you have any problems listening the show please e-mail us at cinematicsound (at) yahoo.com.

Enjoy!

-Erik-

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Cool observation: when we see Mount Doom explode, the choir sings the lines:

Beneath the ground

Swollen hot with anger

Orodruin releases all its ruin

from the poem "The Mountain Of Fire".

that's a spoiler... for the people who didnt want to read the anotated score...

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