blondheim 1,157 Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 Having not seen the film in a while, is there a rough chronological order to the tracklisting out there somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted May 27, 2021 Author Share Posted May 27, 2021 I'm just interested in knowing which cues lay over which scenes, the album is well-constructed as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 I think there are quite a few combined tracks, so it shouldn't be very straightforward. I love this score, I really must take some time to do a full score breakdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted May 28, 2021 Author Share Posted May 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Romão said: I think there are quite a few combined tracks, so it shouldn't be very straightforward. I love this score, I really must take some time to do a full score breakdown I love it too. I've also been considering working on something because I can't find enough information about this score and talk about a score that deserves such detailed analysis. It's the connection between Jurassic Park and A.I. that helped unlock a lot of Williams work for me during that period, including his second presidency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 All the cue names are available here. I don't think @BrotherSound ever posted which cues are in which tracks of the OST album, though blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 I watched the film recently and didn't go back to analyse the OST in great detail, but I did check that T13 Reunion and Finale is the final two cues of the film (overlap at 0:50, despite being separate cues in the film). T2 Hell's Kitchen is the end credits suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted May 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2021 On 5/28/2021 at 12:38 AM, Jay said: I don't think @BrotherSound ever posted which cues are in which tracks of the OST album, though Nope, I hadn’t done a breakdown of this one, but here goes: 1 Sleepers At Wilkinson 3:42 0:00-2:18 1M1 Sleepers 2:18-end 3M5 New - Last Night at Wilkinsons 2 Hell’s Kitchen 5:23 8M5 New - Hell’s Kitchen 3 The Football Game 4:10 3M3 New - The Football Game 4 Saying The Rosary 6:54 0:00-2:22 7M3 At Mass 2:22-end 6M5 Saying The Rosary 5 The Trip To Wilkinson 2:35 2M7+8 The Sentencing 6 Time In Solitary 4:24 4M2 Football Star 7 Revenge 2:47 7M4 New - Revenge For Rizzo 8 Michael’s Witness 4:09 7M3 New - The Crossexamination Of Ferguson 9 Learning The Hard Way 5:22 0:00-1:05 1M10 Lessons In An Alley 1:05-1:43 2M4 Down Subway Stairs 1:43-end 3M1 New - The Basement At Wilkinsons 10 Last Night At Wilkinson 3:51 3M5 New - Last Night At Wilkinsons 11 Father Bobby’s Decision 3:56 2M6 Talking to Father 12 Reliving The Past 3:41 0:00-0:11 unknown [dictated from podium?] 0:11-2:40 3M1 Life At Wilkinson’s 2:40-end 8M8 Father Bobby Reflects 13 Reunion And Finale 5:30 0:00-2:40 9M3 The Reunion 2:40-end 9M5 Finale So, no strictly chronological order is possible without editing, but a decent approximation would be something like 1, 9, 11, 5, 3, 10, 6, 4, 8, 7, 12, 13, 2. On 5/28/2021 at 1:36 AM, crumbs said: I watched the film recently and didn't go back to analyse the OST in great detail, but I did check that T13 Reunion and Finale is the final two cues of the film (overlap at 0:50, despite being separate cues in the film). T2 Hell's Kitchen is the end credits suite. That’s right, though the change between the old and new cue numbering (during which time the film must have been shortened significantly) doesn’t make it obvious. Ludwig, crumbs, Edmilson and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, BrotherSound said: That’s right, though the change between the old and new cue numbering (during which time the film must have been shortened significantly) doesn’t make it obvious. I had wondered why there was no cue after 9M5 for the end credits suite. Made me wonder what the slates were for the penultimate and final cues of the film proper. Mystery solved! Thanks @BrotherSound How unsurprising that the film's dramatic climax, Father Bobby's Decision, is actually represented on album in track 11 by a cue from reel 2 Reminds me of Grievous Speaks To Lord Sidious being the third last track on the ROTS OST! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted May 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2021 You can hear the Island's Voice just around the corner with that descending synth line that seems to represent the suffering at Wilkinson. The first three notes aren't inherently ominous but then it suddenly descends and abruptly ends. I suffer from it and for me, it echoes the micro-traumas of PTSD flashbacks very well. These flashbacks sneak up on you with nostalgic memories of the past that flip quickly. I'm relatively sure the effect was not intentional but it shows me that if you spend enough time over the years sympathizing and musicalizing characters, perhaps you gain insights into sections of the human condition you haven't had the misfortune to explore. I would never assume whether John Williams has and the point is it doesn't matter anyway. All the transient melodies in this score do seem to express never quite feeling comfortable, anywhere, even especially at home or church, or any other place where one should feel safe. There is a sharp sense of the bitter in this score's bittersweet. There is a saying that resentment is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die. I think this score embodies that idea. crumbs, Jay, Taikomochi and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Great work again @BrotherSound, thanks for that! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted May 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2021 Updated with a couple I missed (thanks, @Jay!): Looks like there’s about 21-22 minutes unreleased (assuming it was all recorded, of course): 1M4 Hell’s Kitchen 0:33 1M8 Teaching Revenge 1:35 3M2 New - Muffled Cries 1:07 4M2 Insert #1 0:30 4M2 Insert #2 0:10 4M3 New - Harlem Source 2:30 5M1 New - King Benny’s Sleepers 0:45 5M1A New - The Old Fire Hydrant 1:00 5M4 New - Michael’s Plan 3:15 5M4 New Insert 1:15 5M4 New - The Fat Man’s Speech 1:05 7M1 Remembering Wilkinsons 2:11 7M1 New - Ferguson’s Entry At Court 0:31 7M2 New - Remembering In Court 0:34 7M4 Michael And Carol 1:09 9M1 New - Passing The Tickets 2:30 9M2 Not Guilty 1:41 Doesn’t appear to be a case like The Patriot or Amistad with any major missing highlights, though. Incanus, Raiders of the SoundtrArk and Edmilson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,453 Posted May 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2021 I watched the movie recently on Netflix. It was a profoundly moving experience, and one of the reasons for that was John Williams' score. It's scores like this one, Schindler's List, Born on the Fourth of July and Empire of the Sun show that Williams can score suffering, tragedy and trauma with great care and empathy. BrotherSound, Incanus and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,658 Posted May 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Edmilson said: I watched the movie recently on Netflix. It was a profoundly moving experience, and one of the reasons for that was John Williams' score. It's scores like this one, Schindler's List, Born on the Fourth of July and Empire of the Sun show that Williams can score suffering, tragedy and trauma with great care and empathy. I would add Angela's Ashes and Rosewood to this list. People who claim Williams is all bombast and sentimentality are dumb (or perhaps deaf). BrotherSound, blondheim and Incanus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I think it is mostly because people don't care so much to venture beyond the big name scores for big name movies, movies they may not care for anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 15 hours ago, blondheim said: You can hear the Island's Voice just around the corner with that descending synth line that seems to represent the suffering at Wilkinson. The first three notes aren't inherently ominous but then it suddenly descends and abruptly ends. I suffer from it and for me, it echoes the micro-traumas of PTSD flashbacks very well. These flashbacks sneak up on you with nostalgic memories of the past that flip quickly. I'm relatively sure the effect was not intentional but it shows me that if you spend enough time over the years sympathizing and musicalizing characters, perhaps you gain insights into sections of the human condition you haven't had the misfortune to explore. I would never assume whether John Williams has and the point is it doesn't matter anyway. All the transient melodies in this score do seem to express never quite feeling comfortable, anywhere, even especially at home or church, or any other place where one should feel safe. There is a sharp sense of the bitter in this score's bittersweet. There is a saying that resentment is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die. I think this score embodies that idea. I think it's all very much intentional. The film is about the loss of innocence, so a dark and foreboding mood permeates most tracks - although it's slightly more upbeat in the first half (the first half - prior to the accidental murder - is about recreating a sense of nostalgia for a lost time, anyway, as Levinson almost goes all ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA in the mise-en-scene of 60s New York). The throbbing synth figures as the camera pans through the basement of Wilkinson - with the molestation off-screen - and eventually segues into the time jump to the 80s, is IMO the darkest Williams has ever been. As in "real life" darkness, not fantasy darkness. Fantastic stuff. Whereas something like SCHINDLER'S LIST often feels like a dour experience to sit through, and hence more mood-dependent, I often return to SLEEPERS for this beautiful middle tone between misery and optimistic nostalgia. Romão and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 It's great if you have difficulties falling asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Sorry there isn't enough brassy fanfares and timpani rolls for ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Apology accepted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 6 hours ago, Thor said: I think it's all very much intentional. The film is about the loss of innocence, so a dark and foreboding mood permeates most tracks - although it's slightly more upbeat in the first half (the first half - prior to the accidental murder - is about recreating a sense of nostalgia for a lost time, anyway, as Levinson almost goes all ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA in the mise-en-scene of 60s New York). The throbbing synth figures as the camera pans through the basement of Wilkinson - with the molestation off-screen - and eventually segues into the time jump to the 80s, is IMO the darkest Williams has ever been. As in "real life" darkness, not fantasy darkness. Fantastic stuff. Whereas something like SCHINDLER'S LIST often feels like a dour experience to sit through, and hence more mood-dependent, I often return to SLEEPERS for this beautiful middle tone between misery and optimistic nostalgia. That's how I feel as well. Maybe it's my own personal experience, but I find this score very affecting. The only moment with any real hope comes towards the end of Finale, which isn't even part of the score proper in a way. Even that is very quickly turned back around to uncertainty, melancholy. Almost self-defeating, the way negative thought loops return. "Maybe things are getting better." Then the other voice scoffs, "Yeah, right." Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 18 hours ago, Edmilson said: I watched the movie recently on Netflix. It was a profoundly moving experience, and one of the reasons for that was John Williams' score. It's scores like this one, Schindler's List, Born on the Fourth of July and Empire of the Sun show that Williams can score suffering, tragedy and trauma with great care and empathy. Well said. I've really enjoyed discovering some of these older films JW scored throughout the 80s and 90s over the past year. Scores I never listened to and only had a cursory knowledge of the theme suddenly came to life. The Reunion and Finale track from Sleepers never struck me as anything particularly extraordinary... until seeing the film. Suddenly the piece took on whole new meaning; I was struck by the last half in particular. Without understanding what it represented in the film, it might just sound like a lesser JW heroic ending, but with the added context of the harrowing experiences which befall our characters, the music takes on an unexpectedly bittersweet, heartbreaking resonance. Incanus and thx99 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Some really great thoughts and insights in the recent surge of posts. Thank you all, it is great seeing this score getting some attention and very thoughtful and enlightening analyses. thx99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 6 hours ago, crumbs said: The Reunion and Finale track from Sleepers never struck me as anything particularly extraordinary... until seeing the film. Suddenly the piece took on whole new meaning; I was struck by the last half in particular. Without understanding what it represented in the film, it might just sound like a lesser JW heroic ending, but with the added context of the harrowing experiences which befall our characters, the music takes on an unexpectedly bittersweet, heartbreaking resonance. I had the exact same experience, @crumbs!! “Bittersweet” is the perfect descriptor. The scene goes from the temporary victory to a bit of a gut punch, though the characters’ fates are somewhat inevitable. Incanus and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I have many issues with this film, and especially with the novel on which is based. There seems to be a lot of fiction despite the author said it's based on true events (but never brought proof that what he told actually happened). IMO, the film is quite heavy-handed and it over-simplifies incredibly treacherous stuff like sexual abuse on kids and PTSD, boiling the whole story down to a Hollywood-esque tale of revenge and atonement. It strives to be a grim Scorsese-like movie, but it ends up more like a TV-Movie-of-the-week drama if it weren't for the all-star cast appearing on the screen. Anyway, it's far from a really bad movie and I think Williams caught the overall tone perfectly with his music score, which I always looked at as a sort of continuation/evolution of his Oliver Stone drama style, but also a sort of homage to Leonard Bernstein's On the Waterfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 We just watched the film yesterday! It really felt like they included the entire first act of the story, the entire third act of the story, but completely omitted the entire second act of the story The first act was pretty compelling, with 1960's Hell's Kitchen vividly realized, and a nice juxtaposition of how events in the world around this time like the Vietnam War and rise of feminism had no impact on these particular characters, they were just images on the TV that didn't affect their lives. The scenes in Wilkinson's were actually less graphic and visceral than I was expecting; Shawshank Redemption from two years earlier had a much more vivid depiction of prison rape and violence. After the first act ended, I wasn't sure where the story was going, and though it was pretty sloppy how it goes right into the murder of Kevin Bacon by 2 of the 4 boys, and then right after that we learn that Brad Pitt has spent 15 years coming up with a revenge plan. If the film had an actual second act we would have seen these characters grow and adapt a bit during this 15 year prior, see those 2 become killers, see Brad Pitt decide to go to law school come up with this plan, see Dustin Hoffman become a drunk and Brad Pitt realizing he could be useful one day for his plan, all the other pieces being put into motion, etc. Instead we just jump right into the third act and have his entire plan just play out as he intended, with barely any roadblocks or on-the-fly adjustments to be made. The only real drama is whether Robert De Niro will lie for them on the stand or not, which didn't take a rocket scientist to see that of course he would. The ending was pretty good though, the 4 of them finally getting together after having "won", immediately juxtaposed with the fact that 2 of them would be dead in a few years and one flew the country forever. In the end its a pretty good depiction of how sexual and physical abuse and other trauma can effect your life, but also feels a bit reserved, like there wasn't enough monologues and top-tier acting to really sell it. It's a bit Hollywood-glossy. I'm sure the book is better. I almost forgot who was in this movie and kind of wish the opening credits didn't list everybody, because Brad PItt, then Minnie Driver, then Dustin Hoffman show up so late in this film! I think a better way to adapt this story would be a modern premium channel miniseries, something like 6-8 one-hour parts that really delve into things and actually show the 15 year gap. Oh right, the score. It was great! Listening to the OST album now. I'll type up some comments about the complete set of cues since the movie is fresh in my mind Romão 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted June 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2021 Since the film seemingly got re-balanced mid-scoring and you can't rely on just sorting by reel/part number to get the chronological order, here it is: 1M1 Sleepers [OST 1 "Sleepers at Wilkinson" 0:00-2:18] 1M4 Hell's Kitchen [unreleased] 1M8 Teaching Revenge [unreleased] 1M10 Lessons in an Alley [OST 9 "Learning The Hard Way" 0:00-1:05] 2M4 Down Subway Stairs [OST 9 "Learning The Hard Way" 1:05-1:43] 2M6 Talking to Father [OST 11 "Father Bobby's Decision"] 2M7-2M8 The Sentencing [OST 5 "The Trip To Wilkinson"] 3M1 Life at Wilkinsons [OST 12 "Reliving The Past" 0:00-2:40] 3M1New The Basement at Wilkinsons [OST 9 "Learning The Hard Way" 1:43-end] 3M2New Muffled Cries [unreleased] 3M3New The Football Game [OST 3 "The Football Game"] 4M2 Football Star [OST 6 "Time In Solitary"] 4M2 Insert #1 [unreleased] 4M2 Insert #2 [unreleased] 3M5New Last Night at Wilkinsons [OST 10 "Last Night AT Wilkinson" in full, also appears partially in OST 1 "Sleepers at Wilkinson" 2:18-end] 4M3New Harlem Source [unreleased] 4M4New Michael's Plan [unreleased] {manuscript accidentally says 5M4New} 5M1New King Benny's Sleepers [unreleased] 5M1ANew The Old Fire Hydrant [unreleased] 5M4New The Fat Man's Speech [unreleased] 5M4New Insert [unreleased] 6M5 Saying The Rosary [OST 4 "Saying The Rosary" 2:22-end] 7M1 Remembering Wilkinsons [unreleased] 7M3 At Mass (Chorus A Cappella) [OST 4 Saying The Rosary 0:00-0:48] 7M3 At Mass (Chorus & Orchestra) [OST 4 Saying The Rosary 0:48-2:22] 7M4 Michael and Carol [unreleased] 7M1New Ferguson's Entry at Court [unreleased] 7M2New Remembering in Court [unreleased] 7M3New The Crossexamination of Ferguson [OST 8 "Michael's Witness"] 7M4New Revenge for Rizzo [OST 7 "Revenge"] 8M8 Father Bobby Reflects [OST 12 "Reliving The Past" 2:40-end] 9M1New Passing the Tickets [unreleased] 9M2 Not Guilty [unreleased] 9M3 The Reunion [OST 13 "Reunion And Finale" 0:00-2:40] 9M5 Finale [OST 13 "Reunion And Finale" 2:40-end] 8M5New Hell's Kitchen [OST 2 "Hell's Kitchen"] So a rough chronological order of the OST album without doing any in-track editing would be 01 Sleepers at Wilkinson (3:41) 11 Father Bobby's Decision (3:56) 05 The Trip to Wilkinson (2:35) 12 Reliving the Past (3:40) 09 Learning the Hard Way (5:21) 03 The Football Game (4:09) 06 Time in Solitary (4:23) 10 Last Night at Wilkinson (3:51) 04 Saying the Rosary (6:53) 08 Michael's Witness (4:09) 07 Revenge (2:46) 13 Reunion and Finale (5:30) 02 Hell's Kitchen (5:23) While a full chronological re-edit would be 01A Sleepers at Wilkinson [0:00-2:18], retitle to "Sleepers" or "Main Titles" 09A Learning the Hard Way [0:00-1:43], retitle to "Lessons in an Alley / Down Subway Stairs" 11 Father Bobby's Decision (3:56), retitle to "Talking to Father" 05 The Trip to Wilkinson (2:35) 12A Reliving the Past [0:00-2:40], retitle to "Life at Wilkinson" 09B Learning the Hard Way [1:43-end], retitle to "The Basement at Wilkinson" 03 The Football Game (4:09) 06 Time in Solitary (4:23) 10 Last Night at Wilkinson (3:51) 04B Saying the Rosary [2:22-end] 04A Saying the Rosary [0:00-2:22], retitle to "At Mass" 08 Michael's Witness (4:09) 07 Revenge (2:46), can retitle to "Revenge for Rizzo" 12B Reliving The Past [2:40-end], retitle to "Father Bobby Reflects" 13 Reunion and Finale (5:30) 02 Hell's Kitchen (5:23), can be retitled to "End Credits" or "Hell's Kitchen (End Credits)" OST 01 2:18-end is just a repeat of the end of track 10 and isn't needed. MrJosh, Romão, BrotherSound and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted June 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2021 I wrote a little description of each cue and noted all the source music: 1M1 Sleepers [OST 1 "Sleepers at Wilkinson" 0:00-2:18] The opening titles, just white text on black background, interrupted briefly in the middle by adult Shakes narrating a bit about the 4 main characters' fates while we see footage of their young versions dancing around. Actually, the film version is longer than the album version, so maybe that middle part was edited in after scoring and is tracked music? "Walk Like A Man" by The Four Seasons plays directly after this, so is probably 1M2 1M4 Hell's Kitchen [unreleased] Young Shakes comes home after his father beats his mother, adult Shakes narrates about Hell's Kitchen as we see footage of various events "The Warmth of the Sun" and "Good Vibrations" by The Beach Boys are heard next so account for 2 out of 1M5,6,7 1M8 Teaching Revenge [unreleased] Shake's father (Bruno Kirby) tells the 4 boys the story about how King Benny slowy exacted revenge by waiting 8 years to cripple a guy that had broken his front teeth "All Alone" by Doris Days plays immediately after this so would be 1M9 1M10 Lessons in an Alley [OST 9 "Learning The Hard Way" 0:00-1:05] Young Shakes gets his first job for King Benny delivering money to crooked cops, but gets stopped in an alleyway on his way by some thugs and is saved by another man "Little By Little" by Doris Day, "Hurdy Gurdy Man" by Donovan, and "Bang, Bang" by The Joe Cuba Sextet, "Alone Again, Or" by Love, "Catch A Wave" by The Beach Boys, and "Gimme Some Lovin'" by The Spencer Davis group are heard next and would account for 1Mwhatever and 2M1,2,3 2M4 Down Subway Stairs [OST 9 "Learning The Hard Way" 1:05-1:43] The fateful incident where they let the stolen hot dog cart fall down the subway stairs and almost kill an innocent guy 2M5 was probably reserved for background source music to be played for the scene where Shake's father yells at him 2M6 Talking to Father [OST 11 "Father Bobby's Decision"] Young Shakes talks to Father Bobby as they prepare for mass following the incident. The OST album's track location and title make you think it's the music for the end of the film when he has to decide whether to lie or not, but there's actually no decision being made in this early cue and his decision later in the film is scored by 8M8, which is on the OST elsewhere. 2M7-2M8 The Sentencing [OST 5 "The Trip To Wilkinson"] Follows directly after the previous cue, the 4 boys get their sentences by the court, all being remanded to Wilkson's, intercut with the footage of them getting on the bus to go there - with Young Shakes setting up the concept of Father Bobby telling a "good lie" to his parents that he's doing OK there - continuing on as they arrive at Wilkinson's 3M1 Life at Wilkinsons [OST 12 "Reliving The Past" 0:00-2:40] Shakes narrates about the guards at Wilkinson's as we see footage of them all, then continues to narrate about what life at Wilkinson's is like as we see a big montage of their daily lives there, ending with the start of the cafeteria incident 3M1New The Basement at Wilkinsons [OST 9 "Learning The Hard Way" 1:43-end] After the cafeteria incident, the guards take the boys down into the basement and rape them, afterward Shakes narrates about how their parents weren't visiting them but Father Bobby was 3M2New Muffled Cries [unreleased] Young Shakes hugs Father Bobby, then Shakes narrates about the muffled cries of pained anguish heard when the guards visited the boys in their rooms 3M3New The Football Game [OST 3 "The Football Game"] The boys, beat up by the guards, are thrown into solitary, then footage of them in solitary is intermixed with blue-filtered flashbacks that show the build up to the football game (getting Rizzo on their side), then game itself. The OST track doesn't line up with the film, so either it was edited down from a longer recording, or the film was re-edited after scoring 4M2 Football Star [OST 6 "Time In Solitary"] Continuing directly on, Shakes narrates more as we see Young Shakes in solitary, with flashbacks to Hell's Kitchen, eventually the boys get out of solitary and into the infirmary where they learn the guards killed Rizzo. The OST track is much longer than the film scene so some footage must have been cut 4M2 Insert #1 [unreleased] 4M2 Insert #2 [unreleased] These are probably the inserts used to shorten the cue after the scene was re-edited 3M5New Last Night at Wilkinsons [OST 10 "Last Night AT Wilkinson" in full, also appears partially in OST 1 "Sleepers at Wilkinson" 2:18-end] The following spring, they agree to never talk to each other or anyone else what happened to them when they get out. Some time later, Young Shakes is alone in his room on his last night when Noakes comes to visit one last time. The 4 guards take the 4 boys down to the basement to rape them one last time, then we jump to 1981 where adult John and Tommy enter McHale's bar "Witchi Tai To" by Everything Is Everything is the source music playing inside McHale's bar, who knows what the reel/part number would be There is a brief bit of ethereal music that plays over "Witchi Tai To" when Tommy sees Nokes eating there, that might be tracked in from a Williams score cue "Boogie Bands and One Night Stands" by Kathy Dalton is the next source music playing at McHale's 4M3New Harlem Source [unreleased] When adult Shakes meets adult Michael in Queens, there is some faint source music heard in the background, another bit of that ethereal sound, but I think this source cue by Williams is the one with prominent percussion that appears when they walk through a graffitied neighborhood 4M4New Michael's Plan [unreleased] {manuscript accidentally says 5M4New} Michael relays his plan to Shakes, showing him all the files on the guard he's spent years building. We transition to a montage Shakes narrates showing various elements of the plan going into place "Memories Are Made Of This" is the source cue playing in King Benny's bar as he instructs Danny to be the lawyer for John and Tommy 5M1New King Benny's Sleepers [unreleased] Shakes narrates about how King Benny was in on their plan and will have his Sleepers continue to bad-talk Michael but not kill him 5M1ANew The Old Fire Hydrant [unreleased] Shakes sees the fire hydrant across the street while talking to Fat Mancho, and has flashbacks to his youth in Hell's Kitchen. Later he goes to visit Carol "Oh What A Night" by The Four Seasons and then "My Eyes Adored You" by Frankie Vallie are heard in Carol's apartment and are presumably 5M2New and 5M3New 5M4New The Fat Man's Speech [unreleased] Fat Mancho gives a speech while we see a montage of 1981 Hell's Kitchen. 5M4New Insert [unreleased] This might be the music that plays as Shakes talk to King Benny on a bench about the remaining witnesses, and then Michael gives his opening statement in court. Or, this might be an insert used in the above cue, and the bench scene's music is unreleased and not in the sheet leak (or, is tracked music) 6M5 Saying The Rosary [OST 4 "Saying The Rosary" 2:22-end] Shakes has an uncomfortable dinner with his father, then goes into church and begins praying the rosary as we see more flashbacks of what happened to them at Wilkinson's with the guards. Leaving the church, he meets Carol who says he knows who to use as a witness that will say he was with John and Tommy at the time of the murder, and they go see Father Bobby together. 7M1 Remembering Wilkinsons [unreleased] Shakes tells Father Bobby (and Carol) the story of what happened to them at Wilkinson's There seems to be a 7M2 unaccounted for in the sheet leak (and not on the OST album), covering the scene where Shakes meets up with two dirty cops to set up one of the guards 7M3 At Mass (Chorus A Cappella) [OST 4 Saying The Rosary 0:00-0:48] 7M3 At Mass (Chorus & Orchestra) [OST 4 Saying The Rosary 0:48-2:22] Shakes goes to mass and receives communion from Father Bobby, then we see Michael interrogating witnesses in the courtroom 7M4 Michael and Carol [unreleased] Carol meets with Michael on a subway car to tell him Father Bobby is their only hope for a witness, and that Carol knows their story now "I'll Never Stop Loving You" by Doris Day is heard when Shakes meets with King Benny at his bar "Early In The Morning by The Gap Band is heard when King Benny meets with Little Caesar at his place 7M1New Ferguson's Entry at Court [unreleased] Michael calls Ron Ferguson to the stand, he arrives and swears the oath as the 4 main characters all deal with seeing him again 7M2New Remembering in Court [unreleased] Danny's cross-examination causes Ferguson to vividly remember some of what he did and saw at Wilkinson's. 7M3New The Crossexamination of Ferguson [OST 8 "Michael's Witness"] Danny's cross-examination continues as Ferguson remembers more and eventually admits to his wrongdoings 7M4New Revenge for Rizzo [OST 7 "Revenge"] Ferguson is excused and is advised not to stray too far from home. Shakes narrates about Michael's continuing plan, Little Caesar's men kill one of the guards "Tainted Love" by Soft Cell plays as Shakes plays handball with Fat Mancho, so that's probably 8M7 8M8 Father Bobby Reflects [OST 12 "Reliving The Past" 2:40-end] Father Bobby prays in church, Michael stares at the ocean remembering his youth. 9M1New Passing the Tickets [unreleased] The basketball tickets make their way from a church bible to Father Bobby through Fat Mancho. In court, the defense calls Father Bobby to the stand, and he enters and swears his oath on the bible 9M2 Not Guilty [unreleased] After Danny and Michael cross-examine Father Bobby, Shakes narrates about Father Bobby having told "the good lie" and later the jury finds the defendants not guilty. Michael goes to buy a hot dog from a hot dog stand 9M3 The Reunion [OST 13 "Reunion And Finale" 0:00-2:40] Shakes talks with Michael outside the court. Shakes' narration describes the aftermath of the case as we see the 4 men and Carol reunite in the backroom of a bar. 9M4 would be the group's a cappella rendition of "Walk Like A Man" 9M5 Finale [OST 13 "Reunion And Finale" 2:40-end] The group singing and enjoying their reunion is intercut with footage of all their fates , as well as footage of happy parts of their youth (including the same dancing seen in the middle of the opening credits) as Shakes' narration wraps up the story 8M5New Hell's Kitchen [OST 2 "Hell's Kitchen"] On-screen text explains how this is supposedly based on a true story, and then the end credits roll. rough cut, Incanus, Romão and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,453 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 This is great, thanks! But how come 3M5 comes after 4M2? It doesn't make any sense if in reel 4 they're still at Wilkinson but on 3 they're getting released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: the film seemingly got re-balanced mid-scoring Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Jason, thank you so much for this. Any rough estimate of the total length of the unreleased music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 18 hours ago, Romão said: Jason, thank you so much for this. Any rough estimate of the total length of the unreleased music? On 5/30/2021 at 6:27 PM, BrotherSound said: Looks like there’s about 18-19 minutes unreleased (assuming it was all recorded, of course): 1M4 Hell’s Kitchen 0:33 1M8 Teaching Revenge 1:35 3M2 New - Muffled Cries 1:07 4M2 Insert #1 0:30 4M2 Insert #2 0:10 4M3 New - Harlem Source 2:30 5M1 New - King Benny’s Sleepers 0:45 5M1A New - The Old Fire Hydrant 1:00 5M4 New - Michael’s Plan 3:15 5M4 New Insert 1:15 5M4 New - The Fat Man’s Speech 1:05 7M1 New - Ferguson’s Entry At Court 0:31 9M1 New - Passing The Tickets 2:30 9M2 Not Guilty 1:41 Doesn’t appear to be a case like The Patriot or Amistad with any major missing highlights, though. Although for some reason BrotherSound's list doesn't include 7M1, the other 7M3, or 7M2New And of course doesn't mention the "probably 7M2" dirty cop cue I mentioned that isn't in the sheet leak (unless that cue is tracked music I didn't recognize) Romão 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Of course, my bad Thanks again, Jason So a theoretical expanded release would still fit in one cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I *think* so, yes. The film is long, but there's a LOT of scenes scored by source music. Most of the unreleased cues are fairly short, but I didn't note any timings down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: 7M3 At Mass (Chorus & Orchestra) [OST 4 Saying The Rosary 0:00-2:22] 7M3 At Mass (Chorus A Cappella) [unreleased] Shakes goes to mass and receives communion from Father Bobby, then we see Michael interrogating witnesses in the courtroom Both OST and film use a version with orchestra, but it appears an a cappella version was recorded too It's all one cue: 7M3 At Mass (Chorus A Cappella) is just the first 48 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 oh OK, that makes more sense!! I'll fix up my post later when I have time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 43 minutes ago, Jay said: Although for some reason BrotherSound's list doesn't include 7M1, the other 7M3, or 7M2New Updated: Jay and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 Nixon and Sleepers expansions, please. Romão 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted June 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2021 OK I fixed the 7M3 part in my write-up After seeing the film, I have a newfound respect for the score - it's a really damn good one! The way he uses those low thumping tones for the evils of Wilkinson's and brings them back in later in the movie when the characters are thinking about what happened is really cool, especially when it undercuts the otherwise sort of triumphant reunion music. I love the "modern" elements of the score too. This is a real gem of a score, and I hope it gets a complete release some day! blondheim, Romão and Edmilson 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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