Jay 37,368 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Howard Shore's theme is on youtube, probably illegally, so save it before it takes taken down But it's the first 1 1/2 minutes of this video, currently: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 That’s pretty decent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 This is doing a lot for me. Is that some kind of Indian/Chinese instrument heard in the Númenor theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Pure middle earth shore. Shame the show will not have a score like this. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,718 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 This is lovely. My guess is we just heard the best this show is going to get. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max 141 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 On 16/8/2022 at 5:53 PM, Jay said: Howard Shore's theme is on youtube, probably illegally, so save it before it takes taken down Ha, the video got taken down during my 5th listen — it went black halfway through. I’ve never seen that happen before Did anyone else get a Rivendell vibe from the opening arpeggio of Shore’s theme? I loved it, but every time I heard it, my brain was expecting the rest of the Rivendell theme haha Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 At about 1:30, wasn't that Bear's Galadriel theme? Is that where Shore's theme ends then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 9 minutes ago, Max said: Did anyone else get a Rivendell vibe from the opening (ostinato…?) of Shore’s theme? I loved it, but every time I heard it, my brain was expecting the rest of the Rivendell theme haha Of course, the first motif introduced practically plays around with the Rivendell shapes and chord progressions. This is not gonna fit in one page... 4 minutes ago, Barnald said: At about 1:30, wasn't that Bear's Galadriel theme? Is that where Shore's theme ends then? Yeah this was quite shoddily mixed together, so we probably haven't heard the whole thing. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Max said: Did anyone else get a Rivendell vibe from the opening (ostinato…?) of Shore’s theme? Seems to be the same music, yeah... But there seem to be other ideas weaving through this, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 I did my best in a hurry, might be some errors Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Monoverantus said: Is that the Ring's signature interval hiding in there? Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Is that the Ring's signature interval hiding in there? The rising line from the first teaser do start on the same notes, but I suppose you're thinking about the C#-D in the middle. What's funny about that one is that it coincides with a F#m-Gm progression, the same half-steps apart minor chords of the History of the Ring Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Am I wrong in saying that this intro seems to include allusions to all the major cultures of Middle Earth? We have the Dwarven fifths, the Ring's half-steps, the Elven arpeggios, the Mordor "chords", the Hobbits' rising scale, the "nature" progression, etc? JNHFan2000 and Monoverantus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,718 Posted August 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2022 59 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Dwarven fifths the Ring's half-steps Elven arpeggios Mordor chords the Hobbits rising scale -Haiku courtesy of Chen G. Bilbo, Monoverantus and Chen G. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Indeed, it's almost funny how well this simple tune manages to encapsulate almost everything "Shoreish" about LotR without explicitly stating ANY of his themes. Underrated comparison, but the first composition it reminded me of is the godly moment that Bilbo comes over the tree-tops in Mirkwood. Jim Ware and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I don't hear any allusions to the musical world of mankind in it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I don't hear any allusions to the musical world of mankind in it, though. Really? The first seconds, when the horns deliver the arpeggios, do it for me. In LotR, Elves and Men were kept apart until the third movie, when "Minas Tirith" (Mankind's brass) joined with the Rivendell arpeggios. Here, giving us Rivendell-like arpeggios in Mankind's brass feels like the perfect portrayal of old, faithful Númenor. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Oh, orchestrationally, sure. But compositionally? Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 On 17/08/2022 at 1:38 AM, Chen G. said: Is that the Ring's signature interval hiding in there? It is, but not in the place you probably think. The opening bars, the arpeggio outlines the, let's call it Ring chord. In Lord of the Rings, the signature Ring sound is a minor chord with the opening pitches of the theme taking an augmented 4th up a semitone to the 5th. So, in F minor, the chord tones would be F Ab C, and the opening pitches are B (instead of Bb) C. In the Rings Of Power theme, the opening outlines the Ring chord in major instead of minor, so C-E-G-F#. When it goes back to this figure later in the piece, after the descending lines, Shore takes the major moded Ring chord back to minor: C-Eb-G-F#. Some people refer to this as a modified Rivendell arpeggio, but it's really the opening bar of the Ring theme in a different form. Since Shore's Middle-Earth music is really clever, my take is this: Let's say it is a precursor to what the Rivendell/Weakness and Redemption theme would later become in LotR. The arpeggio reaches upwards, but gets corrupted by the Ring theme. Once Sauron has returned in ROP and gets destroyed, the arpeggio theme in FotR/AUJ has been transformed through war into a bittersweet beacon of hope and sacrifice, reaching upwards, but never fully. As far as I see it, Shore's ROP opening arpeggio is the Weakness and Redemption arpeggio flipped upside down. Instead of reaching upwards a semitone, it recedes downwards a semitone to form the Ring harmony. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 It is interesting that the arpeggio - which, based on the Rivendell association, I definitely take as a paean to Elvendom at its peak - contains both the shape associated with the Ring (inverted) AND the shape associated with the Fellowship right next to one another. It also seems to me that all these scale patterns hint at the music of both the Hobbits and of mankind, and some of the chords underneath remind me of Beorn and the world of nature. There are some parallel fifths/fourths hiding in there, too: Its like a precis of the entire Middle Earth palette, it seems to me. Monoverantus and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 On 22/08/2022 at 10:58 AM, Chen G. said: It is interesting that the arpeggio - which, based on the Rivendell association, I definitely take as a paean to Elvendom at its peak - contains both the shape associated with the Ring (inverted) AND the shape associated with the Fellowship right next to one another. It also seems to me that all these scale patterns hint at the music of both the Hobbits and of mankind, and some of the chords underneath remind me of Beorn and the world of nature. There are some parallel fifths/fourths hiding in there, too: Its like a precis of the entire Middle Earth palette, it seems to me. Do you have a timestamp or such where you hear the Fellowship? The nature chords are underneath the descending line after the arpeggio, though in different order, F - Am - F#m Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 18 hours ago, TolkienSS said: Do you have a timestamp or such where you hear the Fellowship? You can't really hear it, but the "There and Back Again" shape is definitely contained in the arpeggios. 18 hours ago, TolkienSS said: The nature chords are underneath the descending line after the arpeggio, though in different order, F - Am - F#m F-Am is the progression under Beorn, so it works. What key does the piece cadences on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted August 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 24, 2022 The more I hear the main title, the more I like it and the more convinced I am that it is greater than any other ninety second segment released so far. The people calling it generic and forgettable: I just don’t hear what you are hearing. Chen G., Bilbo and TolkienSS 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Think about it: in terms of the storytelling order of Howard Shore's "cycle" we have this piece and then the music of the Hobbit announcement trailer, and between those two we basically have a brilliant little overture for 20 hours of music. And some of us are still holding out for a Howard Shore War of the Rohirrim score! blondheim and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Think about it: in terms of the storytelling order of Howard Shore's "cycle" we have this piece and then the music of the Hobbit announcement trailer, and between those two we basically have a brilliant little overture for 20 hours of music. And some of us are still holding out for a Howard Shore War of the Rohirrim score! the music of the Hobbit announcement trailer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 45 minutes ago, blondheim said: The more I hear the main title, the more I like it and the more convinced I am that it is greater than any other ninety second segment released so far. The people calling it generic and forgettable: I just don’t hear what you are hearing. If you mean from a musicology/technical perspective, perhaps. From a pure listening pov, it's got a reasonably memorably central theme and then a couple of statements of a fairly unremarkable descending motif. It's fine - it just feels overshadowed for me in terms of overall memorability by McCreary's material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Richard Penna said: If you mean from a musicology/technical perspective, perhaps. From a pure listening pov, it's got a reasonably memorably central theme and then a couple of statements of a fairly unremarkable descending motif. It's fine - it just feels overshadowed for me in terms of overall memorability by McCreary's material. I could hear its connections right away, the sheet music only proving what my ears had already told me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 The moment you mentioned sheet music you lost me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, blondheim said: the music of the Hobbit announcement trailer? The announcement trailer had Howard Shore music: a pretty nice exposition of some of the major ideas of the score, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Just now, Chen G. said: The announcement trailer had Howard Shore music: a pretty nice exposition of some of the major ideas of the score, honestly. Wow. I hadn’t ever noticed it was an original piece. I’ll add it to my release prayers. I hope we get more Hobbit music some day. It will be a damn shame if we don’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 minute ago, blondheim said: I’ll add it to my release prayers. Warners had it downloadable as an isolated score track back in the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Well then, it’s off to search I go! Perfect timing for the revelation because I am deepening my appreciate for the Hobbits currently. I’m halfway through a dedicated listening of the whole trilogy. For those saying otherwise, this is barely a half step down from LoTR quality. Shore produces some incredible moments in each of these scores that are only less memorable because the scenes they accompany are, I suspect Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 58 minutes ago, blondheim said: The more I hear the main title, the more I like it and the more convinced I am that it is greater than any other ninety second segment released so far. The people calling it generic and forgettable: I just don’t hear what you are hearing. I'm having the exact same experience. I found it uninspired first, but I can't get the arpeggio out of my head. That's what a slight modal touch does to themes. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 I had forgotten how much Shore can do with so little and why that made him the perfect choice for this series. It was all lean, no fat TolkienSS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: You can't really hear it, but the "There and Back Again" shape is definitely contained in the arpeggios. F-Am is the progression under Beorn, so it works. What key does the piece cadences on? Yes, the shape is there, but with the Ring's half-step. I think the There And Back Again figure is a whole step? The piece is full of Shore's chromatic mediant tendencies, so it's hard to tell what key it's in, if any, but the progression of the middle descending line theme is F - Am -F#m - Gm - Eb (or Cm7) - Gm - G Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark 316 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 24/08/2022 at 1:02 PM, Chen G. said: Warners had it downloadable as an isolated score track back in the day... Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 I'm writing a video on Howard Shore's Main Titles. Now that we've seen the opening credits, what do people think of it? On one hand, it's not what I expected. I can understand people feeling a bit underwhelmed, with both the music and the visuals. On the other hand, I appreciate the restraint in a show that clearly put high priority on spectacle and visuals. If this article is to be trusted, one could even say it's quite clever. https://screenrant.com/lotr-rings-of-power-opening-credits-explained/ Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 I think the sequence itself is a little underwhelming, visually. The music, however, is not. True, its not some big swashbuckling, fanfarish thing like people are used to with the openings of big TV shows, but that's just not Shore's style. I can't offhand think of a single Shore score that opens ostentatiously. One fortunate byproduct of the underwhelming title sequence is that the music doesn't become associated with any specific visuals: it really operates as a piece of absolute music, and as an anticipation of musical elements that will engender important themes that - within the order of the musical storytelling - are yet to come in Shore's movie scores. Monoverantus and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted September 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 4, 2022 I loled the main titles very much. Musically it screams lotr very loudly Monoverantus, blondheim and bored 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Has anyone done a detailed analysis of Shore's 90 seconds of glory main title? I am have been listening to it on a loop today. It took me a while but I now thing it is stunning. It is more sophisticated than anything Bear has though I do like Bear's stuff. But there is a sense of majesty and texture to Shore's piece which is quite beautiful. He also has several different themes in his piece. Maybe some of them could be used in the score proper too. Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Has anyone done a detailed analysis of Shore's 90 seconds of glory main title? @Monoverantus is already on the case. Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Has anyone done a detailed analysis of Shore's 90 seconds of glory main title? I am have been listening to it on a loop today. It took me a while but I now thing it is stunning. It is more sophisticated than anything Bear has though I do like Bear's stuff. But there is a sense of majesty and texture to Shore's piece which is quite beautiful. He also has several different themes in his piece. Maybe some of them could be used in the score proper too. The repeating theme that starts the piece outlines a major moded Ring theme, and implies C Lydian. It's the very same harmony and chord progression The Prophecy cadences on 00:38 into the piece. In FotR, it's F Lydian - Am, and here it's C Lydian - Em Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I hear a lot of stuff in there besides just associations with the Ring, though: the shape conjures-up for me associations of Rivendell and Elrond, the Lydian feel of the piece immediately conjures-up the world of mankind, there's some chords underneath straight out of music connected with Beorn (so, the world of nature), etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 The way I see it 0:01 Major Theme: Conveys to me the majesty of the age, or maybe of the primary location - Numenor. Sounds bold and imposing. 0:12 Major Theme: Repeated with some softer textures, elven voices perhaps. Representing some other kingdoms of majesty - like Lindon or Eriador. 0:24 Romantic Phrase: Sounds to be like the melody of a character of immense grace and beauty - may be Galadriel. 0:34 Choral Bridge: Sounds very elven. Boy soprano leads a chorus to a crescendo and beyond. Maybe represents the elves and Valinor and the two trees - an eternal spring. 0:54 Major Theme returns: But with harsher textures, with a deep male chorus, ominous. Perhaps representing the eventual corruption and downfall of Numenor. And the machinations of Sauron. 1:12 Romantic Phrase returns: Reasserts some beauty and grace but dwindles into nothingness - perhaps showing the disappointment of the elves, their weariness and their eventual passing into the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Its the arpeggio idea alternating with rising and falling scales. I'd say if the arpeggio is meant to conjur up associations with anything its primarily with the Elves, as a kind of paean to Elvendom at its peak. Scales more readily evoke the Hobbits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Monoverantus 363 Posted September 6, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2022 I am indeed working on it, and thought I'd try to make a score reduction. This isn't the final edition, there's still a lot that I'm unsure of (including some outright errors). A Theme in C Lydian. The obvious comparison is the Rivendell arpeggios (Weakness and Redemption in major), with the final half-step going down instead of up, but the clear horn calls remind me of Mankind's brass. The open chords and rising scales appear several times throughout, classic Shore staples. A Theme again, with richer orchestration. The Rivendell resemblance is more pronounced, especially coupled with female voices. The lyrics are uncertain, but I think they're from "Namarië" (see pic 4) B Theme in F, starting on the major third. The downward direction contrasts against the previous rising scales and arpeggios. (The arpeggios are wrong, and I'm unsure that the orchestra even includes all the triad pitches) B Theme Development. The stepwise-falling contour of the B Theme is twisted around; starting on the minor thirds of F#m and Gm. Then it's changed again to start on the root of Eb Lydian. A nice discovery, the lyrics seem to be from "Namarië", though I'm not 100% on the "-time ve ramar" bit. Also, we get a classic Shore pyramid cluster! A Theme in C minor #4, now with Evil brass (low horns/trombones). There's definitely Black Speech here, but the lyrics are just guesses. This corruption of the A Theme, along with the opening credits, gives clear parallels to the Ainulindalë. A Theme in C minor, starting from the minor third. The "ishi krimpatul" is the only Black Speech lyrics I'm 100% certain of. (Trumpets are wrong) B Theme in original F major form, but the second motive starts an octave lower. The B Theme returns one final time from the root of A5, giving the last motive a sadder, more unsure feeling. (Arpeggios still wrong) Safe to say, there are plenty of paralells to Shore's LotR score to be found, but the more I listen, the less interested I become in finding these potential hints. To me, it's far more rewarding to realise what ideas and orchestrations make up the "LotR sound", and how little Shore needs to tap into it. bored, Chen G., Barnald and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 The C Lydian juxtaposed with the Cm #4 seems to be just in line with the duality of things in Lord of The Rings, pitting the major moded Ring theme/chord against the minor moded Ring theme/chord that would eventually win the battle and go on in LotR. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 1 hour ago, TolkienSS said: The C Lydian juxtaposed with the Cm #4 seems to be just in line with the duality of things in Lord of The Rings, pitting the major moded Ring theme/chord against the minor moded Ring theme/chord that would eventually win the battle and go on in LotR. I'm gonna be completely honest with you, I personally don't hear this relation to the Ring. The first time I heard that opening arpeggio, my mind immedately went to the Weakness and Redemption theme even if I could tell that it was different. I'd probably not considered a resemblance to the Ring had you never mentioned it. Sure, there are plenty of variations on the Ring's rising half-step resolving from the sharp fourth to the fifth: it's heard over major chords, it's mixed with other themes and at least once played from the fifth up to the flat sixth. But as far as I know, it never inverts (though I'm happily disproven). I might go so far as to say it then seizes to be the Ring motif, instead moving into the down-and-up territory of The Fellowship or Isengard. To me, the Weakness and Redemption comparison is plausible because it's only one step removed from the original form, and in the exact same shape. But your analysis is two steps removed: first you have to arpeggiate the chord and make it part of the melody, then invert the core motif. With that logic, you can justify comparisons to all kinds of themes, like Éowyn's theme, The Dark Places of the World, or Tauriel and Kili's theme, etc. All that said, I'm past the initial enthusiasm of finding LotR themes in this track, preferring now Chen's approach of viewing it as absolute music. And I do vibe with the major/minor duality point you make, although not necessarily in relationship to the Ring, but to the entire Legendarium-spanning conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Monoverantus said: preferring now Chen's approach of viewing it as absolute music. That...wasn't exactly my point. I think the theme is and had been very intentionally composed to allude to all these basic melodic ideas that go on to engender the various themes that comprise Shore's Middle Earth music. My point about it being a piece of absolute music is something that's always true of leitmotives which is that we hear them before we can possibly know what they "mean." Even if we take the scores purely in the order in which they were written, when we first hear that preliminary form of a theme that will become associated with the destruction of the Ring, we couldn't possibly say what this music "means" - its not used for reminiscene (erinnerung), its used for presentiment (ahnung). The Wagnerian in me cannot resist the prototypical example of this, which is that when Wotan concieves of assembling dead heroes in Valhalla (thus naming it as such), we hear a theme that will become associated with the sword, Nothung. But we won't see the sword or hear about it until some 40 minutes into the next opera in the cycle. Its just there to anticipate it. Same here, when a new listener hears the arpeggio, hears the inverted half-step, hears the scales, they can have no idea what to associate these ideas with. But when they hear them in the themes in the entries "that are to come", the fact that a seed had been planted will count for something! Think of it like an overture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 The identical nature to FotR's prologue isn't coincidental. Is it? @Doug Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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