Does anybody ENJOY Star Wars anymore?

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

But then it should only be available as a limited edition blu-ray.

[Schilkeman 964]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yes, but I think its only right that the film should be preserved in the form in which an audience FIRST ever saw it, which would be the limited-release edition.

Given how few theaters it was in, it has been so far impossible to find prints from that limited run. Also, that is how the vast majority of people first saw it. The initial run was about 40 theaters, I think. 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

The five disk bladerunner box even contains the preview version of the movie.

[Andy 4,138]

35 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Star Wars was first shown in a limited release. Between it and the wide release, Lucas changed the composite of the skies above Yavin and intensified the flashes from the laser blasts in the two scenes involving a spaceship chase.

There were also several changes in the audio. Different voice for Beru. Additional lines in the Death Star.  
 

This makes it more complicated when people ask for the original version. Well which original?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

The five disk bladerunner box even contains the preview version of the movie.

 

... which is not worth watching, by the way.

It has archival value, only.

It's like listening to two hour's worth of demos. No thanks; I'll listen to the finished article.

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 minute ago, Andy said:

Well which original?

 

Seems simple to me: the very first version that an audience ever laid eyes on.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

We need the four-hour work print.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

1 minute ago, Andy said:

There were also several changes in the audio. Different voice for Beru. Additional lines in the Death Star.  
This makes it more complicated when people ask for the original version. Well which original?

 

The version that was released on Wednesday May 25th, 1977, I guess.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

The first international galactic release.

[Holko 9,529]

The one with the actually finished audio. The mono.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Seems simple to me: the very first version that an audience ever laid eyes on.

 

All things being equal, you are correct. All things, however, are not equal.

In STAR WARS' case, numerous audio changes were made to the prints, as the film was released, from exclusive engagements, to wide. Who knows what version the UK got, on December 27th, 1977.

In the case of BLADE RUNNER, I saw the International Version, on its first weekend in London, in September, 1982. By that time, it had been on release in the USA, since June.

It's a good point, though.

Will the 4K restoration of THE ABYSS have the full Beenie/breathing fluid scene? Watch this space.

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 minute ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

In STAR WARS' case, numerous audio changes were made to the prints, as the film was released.

 

Right, and as I pointed out there were also a couple of reworked effects shots.

 

But there was a version that was first shown on 25 May. By all rights, we should have THAT version of the movie available for viewing.

[Holko 9,529]

The version with the misaligned stereo TIE Fighter Attack can never be taken as the default!

[JTN 2,030]

I have some bad news and some good news for you:

 

The “bad news” is George Lucas decides which version of STAR WARS is considered the “definitive” one. And it’s not the one audiences saw in 1977. 
 

The “good news” is Mr. Lucas does have the original theatrical release of STAR WARS remastered in 70mm and even gave permission for a special screening of it in 2019 at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

You can read about it here:

https://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/news/star-wars-special-edition-original-screening-70mm-rare-lucasfilm/

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

35 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

By all rights

 

Which rights? It's private property.

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

5 minutes ago, JTW said:

The “good news” is Mr. Lucas does have the original theatrical release of STAR WARS remastered in 70mm and even gave permission for a special screening of it in 2019 at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

He sure likes to tease...

 

Anyway, the closest we may ever get to the "original" in a remastered format is "Harmy's Despecialized Edition". Harmy's supposed to be currently working on v3.0, using the 2019 UHD Blu-ray source and 4K theatrical print scan.

 

Haven't seen it myself, cuz I've been too lazy to jump through the hoops required to obtain a copy, but it pretty much has unanimous praise as the best thing outside of Lucas' vault.

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Anyway, the closest we may ever get to the "original" in a remastered format is "Harmy's Despecialized Edition".

 

which doesn't use the special effects shots of the May 1977 version, and generally just can't hope to look anything like a proper 4K restoration should look (much the same is true of the 4K77 project).

[Brónach 1,302]

it's a very interesting project but i've already seen the movie

Just now, Chen G. said:

 

which doesn't use the special effects shots of the May 1977 version

 

now now, clearly we should have both, the unfinished first release and the finished one months later with the special effects and audio things

[Tallguy 3,398]

  

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yes, but I think its only right that the film should be preserved in the form in which an audience FIRST ever saw it, which would be the limited-release edition.

 

I take some exception to this because it means that the version that I  saw is not that one. Being a "purist" is complicated around these here parts.

 

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

 

which doesn't use the special effects shots of the May 1977 version, and generally just can't hope to look anything like a proper 4K restoration should look (much the same is true of the 4K77 project).

 

Honestly, who HAS seen the May 25th cut? (I DID see the original ESB.) Is that even what they showed at the Marcia Lucas event?

 

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

The five disk bladerunner box even contains the preview version of the movie.

 

It seems nuts to me that a film as lauded and influential as Star Wars does not get that kind of super deluxe all singing all dancing treatment.

 

1 hour ago, Andy said:

There were also several changes in the audio. Different voice for Beru. Additional lines in the Death Star.  
 

This makes it more complicated when people ask for the original version. Well which original?

 

Right. One of the revelations to me in the past five or ten years was that the Story of Star Wars record (which was how I experienced Star Wars FAR more than the four times I saw it in the cinema) used the mono mix! Which didn't seem odd because the four times I saw it would ALSO have been mono.

 

But the version that the most people saw (Not counting the SEs I suppose) is the VHS.

 

 

[Holko 9,529]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Anyway, the closest we may ever get to the "original" in a remastered format is "Harmy's Despecialized Edition". Harmy's supposed to be currently working on v3.0, using the 2019 UHD Blu-ray source and 4K theatrical print scan.

Why would those be closer than the actual original print scans, 4k77/4k80/4k83? They were a good holdover when we didn't have anything better but now they'll be just another fanedit.

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

6 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

It seems nuts to me that a film as lauded and influential as Star Wars does not get that kind of super deluxe all singing all dancing treatment.

 

 

 

[mstrox 6,651]

I’m zen about the Star Wars movies now.  Make any changes you want - everything that I don’t like is just a pleasing reminder that it’s a movie for children and not 40 year old guys like me.

[JTN 2,030]

52 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

It seems nuts to me that a film as lauded and influential as Star Wars does not get that kind of super deluxe all singing all dancing treatment.

It’s because Lucas is the kind of author who, upon “improving” on his art, destroys all previous drafts/versions. To him only the last version is THE (definitive) version, nothing that came before it, matters. Too bad. He doesn’t seem to understand that a piece of art, after the audience has seen it and has gotten fond of it, belongs to them just as much as it does to the author. The author has the right to change it, yet in a certain way they don’t, because once a piece of art has been made public, it belongs to the world, and people want to see it as it was originally presented to them, regardless of its flaws and imperfections, some of which only the author sees and is bothered by.
It’s an interesting matter for sure, and both sides have a point.

That’s why Lucas should allow for people to see all versions of his films and let people decide which version they want to watch. He can make it clear which version he considers “final cut” that represents his original and complete vision, and let people choose for themselves the version they prefer.
What Ridley Scott did with BLADE RUNNER is truly exemplary.

[Schilkeman 964]

When I watch the OT, it’s either the most recent Lucas versions, or the 4k77 etc. versions, which are beautiful, and much closer to what people actually saw in the theater in 1977 than would be a cleaned up original negative scan. 
 

I also respect the artist’s right to say fuck you, that version’s dead to me. Die mad about it. I may not always agree with it, but it’s punk, and I respect it.
 

Also, that mono mix was fantastic.

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

Somewhere, right now, Lucas the author is tortured with the question of whether he should put Luke's scream back in...

 

GL: "I mean, that's a long way to fall... I think I'd scream... But screaming doesn't sound very heroic. It's a self-sacrifice, so he probably would try not to scream... On the other hand, that's a long way to fall!"

 

 

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

He should scream YAAAAHoooooooo like Goofy, I'm sure that was Lucas intention, he just couldn't get the rights.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

He could just use the Wilhelm scream for Luke. 

That would be funny.

 

[Andy 4,138]

[Tallguy 3,398]

@Andy the laughing icon does not do this justice.

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

Variety is the spice of life

[Tallguy 3,398]

Just now, Gabriel Bezerra said:

Variety is the spice of life mines of Kessel.

 

[JTN 2,030]

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Somewhere, right now, Lucas the author is tortured with the question of whether he should put Luke's scream back in...

Great point. When I first saw the trilogy as a kid back in the 80s I accepted everything and nothing bothered me. I liked everything. Little did I know that Lucas disliked so many things about those films I loved with all my little heart and soul. I even liked Luke’s death scream. 
 

The only thing I agree with is changing the victory celebration music in RotJ, it’s more fitting imho and the transition between the tribal music and the full symphonic end credits music is amazing. 

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

4 hours ago, Andy said:

There were also several changes in the audio. Different voice for Beru. Additional lines in the Death Star.  
 

This makes it more complicated when people ask for the original version. Well which original?

 

Throwing my two cents in.

 

All an official release of the Original Theatrical Star Wars would have to do is mimic the fanmade editions like Despecialized and include every audio option:

 

The '77 Dolby (the original, "plain" mix; technically two different mixes, Stereo and Six-Track, but they're nearly identical to each other, content-wise)

The '77 Mono (which includes all of those changes you were talking about, and is the ONLY mix that introduces brand-new dialogue content)

The '85 Stereo (content-wise, it's the '77 stereo with a single Mono line added)

The '93 Stereo (Most common version thanks to being used with the 2006 GOUT DVDs, it's the '77 Six-Track with some Mono sound effects, plus additional sound effects as well)

 

At that point, the question of "Which original?" becomes moot, since the end user can pick their preferred version for themselves.

 

Even if they didn't want to Mike Matessino it and include all five English audio options, you could still get a pretty definitive release with just the '77 Mono Mix and one of the "plain" '77 Dolby mixes (preferably the Six-Track).

 

Throw in the 1981 ANH Crawl as a seamless branching option, and you'd have an original Star Wars release that includes the complete '77 Wide Release/Dolby version, and the most significant pre-'97 changes made to the film (the '77 Mono Mix and the '81 ANH Crawl).

 

All you'd miss out on, content-wise, would be the limited release visual effects (to my knowledge, they aren't substantially different) and the added '93 sound effects (IIRC they're already in the SE anyway).

[Schilkeman 964]

8 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

Throwing my two cents in.

 

All an official release of the Original Theatrical Star Wars would have to do is mimic the fanmade editions like Despecialized and include every audio option:

 

The '77 Dolby (the original, "plain" mix; technically two different mixes, Stereo and Six-Track, but they're nearly identical to each other, content-wise)

The '77 Mono (which includes all of those changes you were talking about, and is the ONLY mix that introduces brand-new dialogue content)

The '85 Stereo (content-wise, it's the '77 stereo with a single Mono line added)

The '93 Stereo (Most common version thanks to being used with the 2006 GOUT DVDs, it's the '77 Six-Track with some Mono sound effects, plus additional sound effects as well)

 

At that point, the question of "Which original?" becomes moot, since the end user can pick their preferred version for themselves.

 

Even if they didn't want to Mike Matessino it and include all five English audio options, you could still get a pretty definitive release with just the '77 Mono Mix and one of the "plain" '77 Dolby mixes (preferably the Six-Track).

 

Throw in the 1981 ANH Crawl as a seamless branching option, and you'd have an original Star Wars release that includes the complete '77 Wide Release/Dolby version, and the most significant pre-'97 changes made to the film (the '77 Mono Mix and the '81 ANH Crawl).

 

All you'd miss out on, content-wise, would be the limited release visual effects (to my knowledge, they aren't substantially different) and the added '93 sound effects (IIRC they're already in the SE anyway).

4K77 has all of this, and is, and I can't stress this enough, not at all difficult to get a hold of.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

2 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

4K77 has all of this, and is, and I can't stress this enough, not at all difficult to get a hold of.

 

Is the version that includes the new '81 Crawl scan out yet?

[Schilkeman 964]

1 hour ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

Is the version that includes the new '81 Crawl scan out yet?

Not as far as I'm aware, but they have a lot cooking over there. I think that is stated to be a part 4K77 2.0, and has been the works for over a year, and which a beta is available. 4k80 is in the final phase of color correction, but they're already working on a 2.0 for that. They have a scan of Phantom Menace and Sith to get cleaned up, and someone is doing a one person scan and cleanup of an Attack of the Clones print.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

14 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

Throwing my two cents in.

 

All an official release of the Original Theatrical Star Wars would have to do is mimic the fanmade editions like Despecialized and include every audio option:

 

The '77 Dolby (the original, "plain" mix; technically two different mixes, Stereo and Six-Track, but they're nearly identical to each other, content-wise)

The '77 Mono (which includes all of those changes you were talking about, and is the ONLY mix that introduces brand-new dialogue content)

The '85 Stereo (content-wise, it's the '77 stereo with a single Mono line added)

The '93 Stereo (Most common version thanks to being used with the 2006 GOUT DVDs, it's the '77 Six-Track with some Mono sound effects, plus additional sound effects as well)

 

At that point, the question of "Which original?" becomes moot, since the end user can pick their preferred version for themselves.

 

Even if they didn't want to Mike Matessino it and include all five English audio options, you could still get a pretty definitive release with just the '77 Mono Mix and one of the "plain" '77 Dolby mixes (preferably the Six-Track).

 

Throw in the 1981 ANH Crawl as a seamless branching option, and you'd have an original Star Wars release that includes the complete '77 Wide Release/Dolby version, and the most significant pre-'97 changes made to the film (the '77 Mono Mix and the '81 ANH Crawl).

 

All you'd miss out on, content-wise, would be the limited release visual effects (to my knowledge, they aren't substantially different) and the added '93 sound effects (IIRC they're already in the SE anyway).

I would consider that version the original version, which won the oscar for best picture.

 

[Tallguy 3,398]

My daughter is home sick. And to my surprise she's watching Star Wars. (Disney+. I'm not going to argue with a sick teenager about the SE. She knows that Han shoots first and this is stupid. Do you realize how much licensed SW material makes fun of that?)

 

So I'm experiencing something that never happens anymore: Star Wars is on. I didn't play it. I didn't seek it out. It's just playing somewhere in the house. Which means I'm just going about my business and I can hear the mouse robot. Or "Cut the chatter, Red Two!" Or (of course) the music.

 

It's a well known trope (or I just read or listen to lots of people with this opinion) that if someone is flipping channels and The Godfather is on that they'll watch it.

 

I don't flip channels and haven't for decades now. But I realize that if Star Wars is on, I have a hard time not watching it.

 

Hell YES, I still enjoy Star Wars.

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

8 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Hell YES, I still enjoy Star Wars.

[Groovygoth666 670]

Quote

Does anybody ENJOY Star Wars anymore?

 

Yes, I still enjoy the original trilogy, choosing to watch the Project 4K releases as they're the best looking to me of the fan releases of the theatrical cuts. As for everything else, well no. Especially the live action shows (except Andor) and sequel trilogy, the prequels don't really do anything for me either. The animated show's I have enjoyed, but probably wouldn't watch them again anytime soon. 

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

On 13/10/2023 at 8:17 AM, Tallguy said:

I don't flip channels and haven't for decades now. But I realize that if Star Wars is on, I have a hard time not watching it.

 

Hell YES, I still enjoy Star Wars.

Similarly, some days I get back from work and my mom is watching something (Rogue One and Tales of the Jedi were the recent ones) and that feeling of "you didn't wait for me?!" floods my mind, it's a funny feeling that is indeed a good reminder.

[Faleel 5,355]

On 13/10/2023 at 7:17 AM, Tallguy said:

Which means I'm just going about my business