Lincoln FILM Discussion Thread

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

or his music...

You love horner... (i thought you meant it in a artistical way... )

[Quintus 5,399]

I love his music, as I do Williams', yes. I don't listen to much from either nowadays, but that doesn't mean I've lost respect or appreciation for them.

[King Mark 3,631]

Even a totally shameless score like FOR GREATER GLORY, which not only rips but is drenched in overloud pathos and grandioso but undeserved musical gestures somehow lands on my playlist time and time again and i have not yet figured out what it is i like about it...

Not sure about comparing it to Williams, but For Greater Glory will get a lot more playtime from me then The Last Guardian. There's a few cues that build to some really beautiful music instead of Desplat's far in between "well those last 15 seconds kinda sounded nice but it's gone now"

[King Mark 3,631]

Again not a hint of Williams music in the TV commercials.Only stock power anthems. Again it's as though they're ashamed of the score or think people will not go see the film if they hear orchestral music

[Faleel 5,348]

Or the music is not intense enough for a trailer (really KM, if they played Race to the House, it would feel very comedic)

[chuck 154]

I don't know if this was posted already and I'm too lazy to search:

[media=]

[Incanus 5,714]

Thanks for the link. Nice if brief comments from the film makers. Sally Field should tone her "advertisement" voice down a bit. She is like an automaton doing her sales pitch.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

You don't agree with her about Tony Kushner's magnificent text and the unbelievably superb shepherdship of Steven Spielberg?? (even without the enunciation that's a bit of a mouthful...)

[indy4 155]

Why is JW grooming the mic like it's his beard?!

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I just got this via mail on Friday. Generally, I am more of a fan of the adventure Williams stuff. For instance, I prefer Williams' Tintin queues over the War Horse queues.

However, Lincoln was a great surprise. It's the slower Williams stuff, but I am really digging it. Wonderful music.

I really hope JW can stay healthy so he can keep churning these puppies out. There is not much in the way of fine art these days. JW may be one of the few real artists out there. IMO at least.

[Quintus 5,399]

You really ought to post more. I enjoy your video game website style.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Great shot from the film:

Speaking of Spielberg's iconic shots, check also this interview with Janusz Kaminski:

http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/how-steven-spielberg-cinematographer-janusz-kaminski-got-these-shots.html

[crocodile 8,012]

Very interesting. Thank you.

Karol

[Jay 37,364]

That's one of the very last scenes in the entire film

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Thanks for the spoiler.

[crocodile 8,012]

Does he die?

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[indy4 155]

I tried to see Lincoln tonight but they were all sold out. I don't think I've ever been turned away from a movie theatre before (of course, for popular movies I've bought tickets online, I just didn't think I would need to for this one).

[Trumpeteer 302]

The movie is excellent, Day-Lewis is incredible and Spielberg's direction is quite interesting. The lighting in the film is questionable. Too many shots of Lincoln in shadows mixed in with shots of bright light streaming in through the windows (a Kaminski trademark).

As for the music, it's very sparse. I think one or two reels went by with no music, or about one minute of transition cues. Of course, there is little action to score, and I commend Spielberg and Williams for not wanting to write music for the sake of underscoring any of the "secret" White House meetings to keep the audience aurally engaged. (The bluegrass music for the "lobbyists" was fun.)

That said, I wasn't wowed by the theme for Lincoln. After JFK, Nixon and John Quincy Adams, I was expecting another great presidential theme. But, on more reflection, it's very subdued and introspective, much like the way Day-Lewis played the president.

I am extremely happy Williams did not score the scene when the spoiler alert bill was passed. Most composers and directors would need some music here, but there was just cheering and shots of people in tears (followed by that superb shot of Lincoln and his son hearing the bells). The song the House sang shortly after was very rousing and I am glad that was used (not sure if it's historically accurate, but I bet it is).

The end credits, sadly, do not measure up to "Arlington" from JFK, which is one of the greatest compositions Williams has ever written, but it did have a beautiful piano melody at the end. I was surprised that so many people sat through the entire credits, and were mostly quiet during the credits.

Unfortunately, subdued scores rarely win Oscars (see: Brokeback Mountain), so I am not predicting Williams' name being called on Oscar night. But I'm not sure of any other scores that will have the same exposure this year, outside of maybe "The Master," if Johnny Greenwood didn't pull the same ineligibility issue he had with "There Will Be Blood."

[King Mark 3,631]

Hmm, still on the fence about seeing this film

[indy4 155]

Finally saw it. I thought it was a great film, in so many ways. It's not the greatest thing in the world for a JW fan, because the music is really sparse and subtle, never really breaking free until the end credits. Acting was stupendous--I wonder if somebody will finally win an acting Oscar for a Spielberg film?

The film was also an optimistic stance on the often frustrating process of American politics. I felt its message was VERY relevant right after our election. I'm curious to see how accurate it was.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Tony Kushner on writing Lincoln

Very interesting interview.

[Incanus 5,714]

Thanks for the link to the Kushner interview Maurizio! Really interesting to hear him opening up the evolution of the script with all that it entailed.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

Just saw the movie, and I have to say, I think the movie could have done with even less music. It did work beautifully for the most part, but sparse as it is, much of the movie is so quiet and static that even a gentle piano or clarinet solo to indicate a scene transition could be a bit jarring. For me, his music worked best with the montages, like the comedic moments with the lobbyists and especially the voting on the amendment. A great, exciting, moving sequence, quintessential Spielberg/Williams.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

For those interested in Lincoln the real man, here's my favorite picture of him. Because he looks more real in this photo than any other.

Sitting with General George McLellan at Antietam. Three years before the events of the film.

[indy4 155]

His beard was much more impressive then than in the movie.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The presidency basically obliterated him.

[ST-321 4]

Thanks for posting this pic.

I just saw the film tonight. It was magnificent.

[indy4 155]

The author of Team ofRivals won the Kennedy Center Honor

[Jay 37,364]

The fine people at Sony asked me to pass long the link to this book about the Lincoln film

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/lincoln-steven-spielberg-film/id577194510?mt=11

Sounds interesting. Anybody check it out?

[Wojo 2,453]

The presidency basically obliterated him.

And JW Booth totally obliterated him.

[Neimoidian 14]

Ironically, these days with such a look Lincoln would most definitely lose the election.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

For the Kushner fans: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-tony-kushner-books-lincoln-angels-in-america-20121204,0,3768705.story

[JamieC 13]

I was able to see Lincoln yesterday. It's astonishing; not just DDL but the entire organisation of the material in all respects. Hollywood entertainment at full capacity. The JW soundtrack is absolutely a very thorough collection of the music in the movie.

[Incanus 5,714]

I have more than a month to wait before I get to see this film as it lands here in Finland on 25th of January. I can't wait.

[JamieC 13]

It's worth the wait. It's as involving and dramatically taut as Munich.

I am very interested to know what the new screenplay is about that Tony Kushner has said he is writing for Steven Spielberg . One assumes it's a screenplay that Steven S. would direct a film from, rather than only produce. Is it the Gershwin project that was mentioned now and again a while ago ? That'd be another slice of interesting Americana for sure.

[publicist 4,643]

I have more than a month to wait before I get to see this film as it lands here in Finland on 25th of January. I can't wait.

You honestly want to tell me you can't wait to watch a friggin' LINCOLN movie? Is there no european pride anymore!?!

[Incanus 5,714]

I have more than a month to wait before I get to see this film as it lands here in Finland on 25th of January. I can't wait.

You honestly want to tell me you can't wait to watch a friggin' LINCOLN movie? Is there no european pride anymore!?!

Well they have to make a film about some great European or preferably Finnish president or statesman. Until then we have to take what we get from America.

[publicist 4,643]

[Incanus 5,714]

I was hoping for something a bit newer.

[publicist 4,643]

[Incanus 5,714]

Anything less Nazi in the recent statesman filmography?

[publicist 4,643]

How dare you!!

OK...for current politics we have

[Incanus 5,714]

I am amazed Bruno Ganz wasn't offered the role of Merkel.

Well Hitler and Rommel were not people I would like to offer my swooning adoration to like Lincoln.

[publicist 4,643]

Bad guys are more interesting anyway.

I don't think Lincoln is above criticism...but don't expect his racist-by-todays-standards remarks ending up in uncle Steven's whitewashed playbook.

[Once 605]

Well they have to make a film about some great European or preferably Finnish president or statesman. Until then we have to take what we get from America.

Try this one;

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I don't think Lincoln is above criticism...but don't expect his racist-by-todays-standards remarks ending up in uncle Steven's whitewashed playbook.

It's a legitimate criticism of the film that it doesn't explore Lincoln's views on slavery and race, or how they evolved over the years. I wouldn't say it's white-washing, per se, but rather that Spielberg/Kushner avoided the issue by choosing to dramatize only the last few months of Lincoln's life, a period where his nastier edges had been largely smoothed over and he would have been less racist and more abolitionist than even a couple years prior. The film would have been better with at least one scene where he was forced to address his opposing views, though, and I think it would have been interesting if they had at least mentioned the idea of resettling free Africans and African-Americans to Liberia or somewhere else outside America. It's something Lincoln long entertained (one of the most damning things against him) and an idea that survived even after he had dropped it.

What set Lincoln apart, though, isn't that he wasn't racist, but that he was open, able, and willing to change. And I certainly found the character of Lincoln to be a three-dimensional one in Kushner's script and Spielberg's film. As far as showing his rougher edges, he is not especially likeable in the scenes with his family, and in a conversation with his black housekeeper, she asks what he thinks lies ahead for her people if the Amendment is passed, and he replies "I imagine I'll get used to you." It's delivered somewhat ironically, but it's an emotionally guarded moment and doesn't totally let him off the hook. It's not a perfect movie, but it's surprisingly cerebral, and I think is most effective when dealing with the political compromises Lincoln made regarding slavery, and in addressing the classic "do ends justify the means" dilemma, forcing us to wonder whether the more extreme political measures taken are overstepping boundaries. It's actually uncomfortable at times, watching the actions that the Republicans take to abolish slavery and win the war, and that's fascinating to me. Hollywood movies rarely go so far into this kind of territory, so convincingly.

[publicist 4,643]

I wouldn't expect that of Kushner, either. And from what i've read the movie isn't as solemn and brazenly patriotic as i have feared. Still, the whole endeavour smells Hallmark all the way - but to be bloody honest, my biggest problem with films like LINCOLN is that the whole subject doesn't interest me very much.

So again, the Williams score is the best thing in it for me...

[Brónach 1,302]

but to be bloody honest, my biggest problem with films like LINCOLN is that the whole subject doesn't interest me very much.

[crocodile 8,012]

Yeah, ditto.

Karol