The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Hallelujah!  The Christmas Special returns!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

"Here we go... The long way round"

"A tear, Sarah Jane? No, don't cry. While there's life, there's..."

"Before I go, I just want to say you were fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. And you know what? So was I!"

"Physician, heal thyself" 

"I will always remember when the Doctor was me"

"Doctor... I let you go"

 

"Tag, you're it"

 

Jodie's final words just about sums it up for me. Despite her best efforts and natural charm, her time as the Doctor had no weight and had all the impact and gravitas of a children's game.

 

She was not without her moments though, I'm just sad to see her go without being given the material she deserved. But let's hear it for Mandip Gill, she was the MVP of the show particularly in the last stretch of episodes where she wasn't competing for screen time with the other companions. Her chemistry with Jodie was excellent and she really gave the performance 100%. 

[Tallguy 3,395]

"Tag, you're it" is a pretty good line. Especially given that there has been an increasing acknowledgement by the Doctors that there is going to be a next Doctor.

 

I just read a story that the final lines got swapped around so Tag was the final line. I like it.

 

To quote the Third Doctor about seriousness: "About what I do? Yes, not necessarily the way I do it."

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Fair enough, I can see why it works for others. But like the monologue that precedes it, it tells us very little about this version of the Doctor, and what it does say has already been done before, much more deftly.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

The ex-companions 'support group' was such a good idea, I'm surprised no writer thought of it previously. How utterly lovely to see Hartnell companion (97 year old William Russell) get to be a part of it.

'I'm sorry, did you say ... 'she'?'    

Apparently Tom Baker was asked to appear along with the other previous Doctors, but was 'unavailable'.  

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Whoa, starting in 2023 Doctor Who will be on Disney+

 

 ‘Doctor Who’ Moves To Disney+ Outside UK And Ireland Via BBC-Disney Branded Television Partnership

 

[mstrox 6,651]

Savvy distribution strategy on their part and likely to broaden Who’s audience in the US.

[Tallguy 3,395]

That looks sharp.

 

I thought Bad Wolf was being bought by Sony?

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Updated version of the 70s diamond logo. Nice! 

Funniest moment in The Power Of The Doctor was the 'What is he DOING?' look between the Dalek and Cyberman as the Master got his Gallifreyan groove on to Boney M. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

9 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Updated version of the 70s diamond logo. Nice! 

 

Never read the comments 

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Typical   . 

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

11 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

The ex-companions 'support group' was such a good idea, I'm surprised no writer thought of it previously. How utterly lovely to see Hartnell companion (97 year old William Russell) get to be a part of it.

 

A good idea, quite possibly, but utterly wasted as just another bit chunk of fan service. It was just there without much context, didn't really tie into anything, was shot awkwardly, and to anyone who didn't already know who everybody was, the references were completely lost (I've seen the first episode, once, but I wouldn't have recognised Russell.

 

Generally, the writing (both story and dialogue) in this was utterly infantile, probably more so than in most of Chibnall's worst episodes before. I kept thinking of a writer's room full of people trying to one-up each other with epic fan service bits, but completely forgetting to actually write a compelling story or relatable dialogue. If the ending was still moving, that wasn't earned by the writers, but solely by Whittaker and Gill.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

19 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

"Here we go... The long way round"

"A tear, Sarah Jane? No, don't cry. While there's life, there's..."

"Before I go, I just want to say you were fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. And you know what? So was I!"

"Physician, heal thyself" 

"I will always remember when the Doctor was me"

"Doctor... I let you go"

 

"Tag, you're it"

 

 

Speaking of final lines, David Tennant's final line before regenerating sure has proved prescient though.  He can't let go!

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

5 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

A good idea, quite possibly, but utterly wasted as just another bit chunk of fan service. It was just there without much context, didn't really tie into anything, was shot awkwardly, and to anyone who didn't already know who everybody was, the references were completely lost (I've seen the first episode, once, but I wouldn't have recognised Russell.

 

Generally, the writing (both story and dialogue) in this was utterly infantile, probably more so than in most of Chibnall's worst episodes before. I kept thinking of a writer's room full of people trying to one-up each other with epic fan service bits, but completely forgetting to actually write a compelling story or relatable dialogue. If the ending was still moving, that wasn't earned by the writers, but solely by Whittaker and Gill.

 

All I know is that I probably had more fun with it overall than Flux and the other 2 episodes from earlier this year put together *shrug*. 

 

I'd imagine at least part of why William Russell was asked to take part is that at 97, he's almost as old as the BBC itself ... the prog was part of their centenary celebrations, after all. 

 

Am not that bothered about the confusion of fans who didn't know who he was ... maybe they should educate themselves. Doctor Who began in 1963, not 2005. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,199]

I have no idea if we should or shouldn't read anything into this, but here's Ncuti Gatwa with the new old logo and Murray Gold's theme arrangement:

 

[Dave 217]

New logo. Cool. So if Akinola releases his last album too late, would we get the wrong logo on the cover like Series 9? And if Murray Gold decides to release his Series 10, would we get the Ncuti Gatwa logo on this as well? meaning that the three Capaldi releases would've all post 2010 logos on them?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I have no idea if we should or shouldn't read anything into this, but here's Ncuti Gatwa with the new old logo and Murray Gold's theme arrangement:

 

I am so god damn ready for the new era

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

15 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

The ex-companions 'support group' was such a good idea, I'm surprised no writer thought of it previously. How utterly lovely to see Hartnell companion (97 year old William Russell) get to be a part of it.

 

I liked this as well, it was a lovely idea and very well executed. Having Graham as the group leader was a nice touch and very much in character for him. Despite the fact he didn't get to interact with the Doctor at all, it was nice that he came back - he was my favourite companion of the trio.

 

Holding out for an announcement about who's scoring the show next. I'm placing bets on Gold coming back for the anniversary special(s), and that someone else will take over for Ncuti's series proper. That's how I'd do it anyway.

[Positivatee 327]

The Jodie finale was so boring I fell asleep in the middle. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Bit uneasy about the talk of the Beeb and Disney+ having a 'shared creative vision' for Doctor Who ... as we've seen with Marvel and Star Wars, Disney likes to milk its franchises dry. Hopefully cooler heads at the Beeb will prevail if Disney starts proposing multiple spin-offs or whatever (although I'm now remembering reading somewhere that RTD's plans allegedly include 'expanding' the show). 

[Tallguy 3,395]

15 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I've seen the first episode, once, but I wouldn't have recognised Russell.

 

You weren't supposed to. That's why he had a name tag that said "Ian".

 

Of course that last we heard of Ian and Barbara in Sarah Jane Adventures they were said to have not aged since the 1960's.

 

3 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Bit uneasy about the talk of the Beeb and Disney+ having a 'shared creative vision' for Doctor Who ... as we've seen with Marvel and Star Wars, Disney likes to milk its franchises dry. Hopefully cooler heads at the Beeb will prevail if Disney starts proposing multiple spin-offs or whatever (although I'm now remembering reading somewhere that RTD's plans allegedly include 'expanding' the show). 

 

We've already had three Who spinoffs, two of them under RTD.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Torchwood was so so so baaaad.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

22 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Torchwood was so so so baaaad.

Scooby Doo with sex and swearing as Charlie Brooker put it (or something like that…). I enjoyed bits of Torchwood but tonally it didn’t work and was trying too hard to be shocking but parts were effective and very creepy. I really enjoyed Class though. Shame that only got on season. In fact I’d say that was the best of the spin-offs to date (Sarah-Jane Adventures was fun but a bit too kids orientated to enjoy as an adult and clearly that would be difficult to restart given the sad death of Elizabeth Sladen).

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Torchwood was so so so baaaad.

S1 is a mixed bag, but S2 has some genuinely good episodes and S3 is absolutely fantastic. Amusingly, S3 is also the one RTD had the most involvement on

 

S4 is an oddity due to the relocation of production so I don’t really count it as it’s almost a reboot

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

44 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

S1 is a mixed bag, but S2 has some genuinely good episodes and S3 is absolutely fantastic. Amusingly, S3 is also the one RTD had the most involvement on

 

S4 is an oddity due to the relocation of production so I don’t really count it as it’s almost a reboot

Agree with this assessment, although admittedly I didn't actually make it to the end of Miracle Day ... as Gwen says in one episode of it (she's talking about the differences in lemonade on both sides of the 'pond', but it made for an apt summation of the season) 'Fizzy in the UK, flat in the States'.  

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It was such a horrible cast.  Season 3 was pretty good I'll admit, but hardly television that stayed with me.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Halfway through Sunday's episode and this gives Sea Devils a run for its money as the most boring hour of Who Chibnall has ever done.

[IheartMelissaBenoist 36]

On 24/10/2022 at 5:38 PM, Disco Stu said:

Hallelujah!  The Christmas Special returns!

I think the press release only said "festive period". Which I really, really hope is Christmas, but could be New Year's Eve, or Boxing Day, or some random day between Christmas and New Year's Eve. Ish. (Thankfully they did specify "2023".)

 

 

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Halfway through Sunday's episode and this gives Sea Devils a run for its money as the most boring hour of Who Chibnall has ever done.

Sorry, for me Sea Devils is hands-down Chibnall's worst. Did the second half of Power help?

 

I liked Power. Didn't love it. Enjoyed the references to the past. For me, the best part was FINALLY seeing William Russell as Ian Chesterton in the series once again. One of my fave companions ever, I was disappointed he wasn't in the 50th special (apart from a tiny cameo in An Adventure in Space and Time). Oh, and I also liked "Introducing David Tennant as The Doctor" in the end credits. Cheeky!

 

I dig the "new" (old) logo, I get why they'd choose that as part of the international Disney+ branding starting next year. 

 

I just hope that

Spoiler

a Doctor Who Magazine comic strip character

rumored to be showing up in the specials actually doesn't. Please, no.

 

BTW, thank you for this Doctor Who thread here at JWFan.net. I avoid the main DW forum because it is just so toxic. Sad but true. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

The show gets discussed reasonably here, I think ... there's disagreement over its various aspects at times yes, but that's inevitable. Things don't turn nasty, I'd say ... we're posting in this thread out of an overall love for the show because we know that it is often utterly glorious, with one of TV's most compelling characters at its centre. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen anyone here insulting someone or their taste because they have different opinions on the show.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

1 hour ago, schultz.kevin1972 said:

Sorry, for me Sea Devils is hands-down Chibnall's worst. Did the second half of Power help?

 

It did actually - as rubbish as the first half was, the direction and performances in the second half were worth it.

 

I get a sense that Tennant's return is part of an overall attempt to get confidence and interest back after the nightmare of Chibnall's tenure. I'm not against that - he's pretty much joint best Doctor for me with Smith.

 

It was nice to see Ace return as she was the companion when the show was last on in the late 80s when I was about two - I vaguely remember seeing it.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

My favorite doctor and era is Capaldi, but that was quite a mournful, self-reflective run (part of the reason I love it) while Tennant is a more manic and fun presence to get lapsed Whovians to return.  I think this was the right call by RTD/BBC.  Use Tennant to hopefully set up the next guy (sorry, haven't memorized his name yet) to have as strong an opening audience as possible.

[Faleel 5,353]

10 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

set up the next guy (sorry, haven't memorized his name yet)

Isn't it in a post just a few above yours?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's a forum post, not a news report!

[Tallguy 3,395]

48 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

when I was about two

 

Ahem. Get off my lawn!

 

43 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

My favorite doctor and era is Capaldi

 

You have considerable taste. 10, 11, and 12 are all really neck and neck for me, but Peter comes out one top. Barely.

 

54 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen anyone here insulting someone or their taste because they have different opinions on the show.

 

No matter how rubbish those opinions might be. (Which is why I've always been well treated.)

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen anyone here insulting someone or their taste because they have different opinions on the show.

 

I'd partially put that down to the fact that there's a good mix of Classic and Revival fans here, neither of which are interested in postulating that their Doctor/showrunner/era is the best and all the rest are shit. I find that nu-Who fans tend to be the most toxic in online spaces (and I'm one of them - I regrettably haven't watched or listened to a great deal pre-2005, though I'm slowly trying) because they haven't had the same level of perspective about the show as classic fans - it's a constant flame war about whether David Tennant/Matt Smith is the best Doctor or how RTD/Moffat is literally Hitler. The truth about the show couldn't be any further from that - it's not the single vision of some auteur genius that fans worship like in other IPs - it's the result of half a century of different writers, producers, and actors creating the most hodge-podge thing you can imagine. Doctor Who has always been amazing, compelling, dreadful, or a little bit rubbish, often in the same episode, and I think everyone here understands that.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

10 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

It was such a horrible cast.  Season 3 was pretty good I'll admit, but hardly television that stayed with me.

I find myself thinking about Children of Earth a lot, particularly the motivation of the antagonists, the unsettling beuracracy of how the crisis is handled, the finale, and that Frobisher scene

 

Spoiler

Ianto’s death still stands as one of the most tragic deaths in anything I’ve seen as it wasn’t a necessary sacrifice, just a casualty of Jack’s recklessness that he pays dearly for. My god is it horrific that both of them technically die together but then Jack has to wake up next to him and confront that, it’s the perfect metaphor for what it’s like to be immortal. “Ballad of Ianto Jones” playing as Gwen walks in crying at the sight of Ianto’s body just destroys me every time, what a beautiful yet powerful piece of music. Murray Gold and Ben Foster crafted some amazing themes for the show, Owen’s theme was just as potent as this angsty and almost gothic yet deeply tragic piece of music.

 

I remember being shocked just how unrelentingly dark it was until I watched a lot of RTD’s other works and it quickly became apparent that this man pulls absolutely zero punches with his writing. Even some of his Doctor Who stories will happily present some truly horrific scenarios and not shy away from showing the consequences of those, like most notably with Turn Left and immigrant citizens being sent to internment camps - in Doctor Who of all things!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Even if I'm not a fan of Torchwood (nor all of RTD's Who era), I am looking forward to the return of that over the top approach he takes to drama (basically hamming it up a lot of the time haha).  

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

7 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Even if I'm not a fan of Torchwood (nor all of RTD's Who era), I am looking forward to the return of that over the top approach he takes to drama (basically hamming it up a lot of the time haha).  

 

My favourite thing watching Years and Years was just how camp and over the top it all was. Near-complete economic collapse of the Western world? Check. Threat of nuclear war? You betcha. Humans integrating with technology and trans-humansism? WTF? "More of this please", I yelled at my TV. Even if he did return to the concentration camp well that has become a bit of a crutch in his high-concept human dramas.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

Just now, Docteur Qui said:

 

My favourite thing watching Years and Years was just how camp and over the top it all was. Near-complete economic collapse of the Western world? Check. Threat of nuclear war? You betcha. Humans integrating with technology and trans-humansism? WTF? "More of this please", I yelled at my TV. Even if he did return to the concentration camp well that has become a bit of a crutch in his high-concept human dramas.

The scariest thing about Years and Years to me was how much things escalated but also came from a place that is way too plausible in our current world, and it has become terrifyingly prescient

 

”Near-complete economic collapse of the Western world” and “Threat of nuclear war” are no longer quaint concepts in the slightest these days

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Good point. I think it’s telling that I found it a bit over the top when it aired in 2019, just prior to the pandemic. Nowadays though…

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Thought Years And Years was very good myself also. Not a ratings hit though, apparently.  

[TBO1711 32]

Still no news on a soundtrack release for Eve Of The Daleks/Legend Of The Sea Devils/The Power Of The Doctor. Anyway we can find out?

[mstrox 6,651]

On 26/10/2022 at 7:37 AM, DarthDementous said:

S1 is a mixed bag, but S2 has some genuinely good episodes and S3 is absolutely fantastic. Amusingly, S3 is also the one RTD had the most involvement on

 

S4 is an oddity due to the relocation of production so I don’t really count it as it’s almost a reboot

That is about where I’m at on Torchwood.  I think there have been plenty of clunkers with Nü-Who as well, but it started up with the concept fully formed.  By the time Torchwood got going, it was pretty good.  
 

I don’t pay a lot of attention to the behind the scene workings of this show.  Did RTD have something to do with the Sarah Jane spin-off as well?  I suspect he was long gone by the time Class came around.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Yep, The Sarah-Jane Adventures was RTD's baby so with it being a kid's show, Doctor Who being a family one and Torchwood being for 'more mature' viewers I guess he had all bases covered. 

Class' first episode had a brief appearance by the Capaldi Doctor. Moffat was Who showrunner at the time, and was one of its exec producers.   

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Somebody had some powerful RTD nostalgia

 

 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Somebody had some powerful RTD nostalgia

 

 

The panning logo straight into the snappy next time footage is so iconic for that era, I really did feel transported back in time

 

It is bonkers to me that a decade later and the 10th Doctor and Donna have barely visibly aged (judging from the next time trailer). So glad we are getting one more story with them now whilst that is the case

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

The 'overnight' viewing figures for Power Of The Doctor were apparently 4 million, which I think is more than had watched the Sea Devils ep after a week. 

[Tallguy 3,395]

12 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

It is bonkers to me that a decade later and the 10th Doctor and Donna have barely visibly aged (judging from the next time trailer). So glad we are getting one more story with them now whilst that is the case

 

Tennant is just about my age so I might be a little more aware. He crossed 40 and he just looks... Different. I think he looks more like himself as The Doctor than he did in Day of the Doctor.

 

I saw the first photo of Smith where I thought "Here it comes. It's happening to him now too."

 

Mind you, when I was a kid I didn't see any difference between Troughton and Pertwee from their eras and when they jumped back into The Five Doctors. So it's clearly subjective.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

21 hours ago, TBO1711 said:

Still no news on a soundtrack release for Eve Of The Daleks/Legend Of The Sea Devils/The Power Of The Doctor. Anyway we can find out?

 

Given how long it took for Flux, give it time. Akinola will want it out, I'm sure - you'd think having a set out for the Christmas market would be on Silva Screen's wish list.

 

I particularly liked quite a bit of the score for Power so I hope it gets a healthy release.

 

You could also ask Segun on Twitter - he seems responsive.