The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Brónach 1,302]

...i mean yes i am aware that we're not a hive mind.

 

would be cool though.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

2 hours ago, Brónach said:

...i mean yes i am aware that we're not a hive mind.

 

would be cool though.

This made me think, are the Cybermen are hivemind or are they just so de-individualized that they seem like one?

[TSMefford 1,509]

On 27/11/2023 at 9:01 AM, Sweeping Strings said:

Meant to say, quite like the new title sequence ... reminiscent of the Smith era 'cloud' vortex.

 

Considering all the drama in this thread over a single Doctor Who episode, my gripe was the poor music editing & sync in the title sequence.

I vastly prefer this fan-edit of the intro that restores the sync to what has been done traditionally. Makes it feel way better.

 

Loved the visuals though! It does indeed remind me of Smith's, which I'm partial to.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

This made me think, are the Cybermen are hivemind or are they just so de-individualized that they seem like one?

 

The latter.

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

The hive mind's more a of a Borg thing.

Oops, wrong sci-fi franchise. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

Was not expecting The Flux to be dealt with so directly but treating it like the destruction of Gallifrey in RTD's first run was a stroke of genius that makes that whole season way more palatable because now it seems to have emotional purpose

 

Speaking of which, I heard that sneaky This is Gallifrey quote Gold. Definitely a more atmospheric soundtrack this time around which suited the vibe without being generic which I found Akinola's stuff veered into. When people always paint Murray as this big overblown orchestral composer I think they really forget his electronic chops, he's without a doubt capable of both

 

I will need to sit with this episode and rewatch it again to clarify my thoughts because it was fucking bizarre but not in a bad way, and I need to adjust to that. I can see why the first episode was so deliberately evoking the familiar now. Interestingly this makes me look forward more to the new era because Donna and 14 almost feel a bit anachronistic, and with a brand new Doctor and companion that feeling won't be there which will be freeing

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

Things I liked about Wild Blue Yonder - it was pleasingly weird, and how wonderful to see Wilf/Bernard again (I had thought he might also feature in the last special, but it seems he sadly passed before planned additional scenes could be filmed). 

Things I didn't like - the utterly, utterly pointless ethnicity change for Isaac Newton (imagine the furore there'd have been (and rightly so) if Mary Seacole in the Flux Sontarans episode had been played by a white actress). It was crowbarred-in 'diversity' for no good reason ... please leave actual historical figures as they were, thanks very much. Combined with the 'mavity' nonsense that came out of that scene, I don't think the episode would've have lost much if they'd dropped it altogether.   

[DarthDementous 1,059]

2 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Things I liked about Wild Blue Yonder - it was pleasingly weird, and how wonderful to see Wilf/Bernard again (I had thought he might also feature in the last special, but it seems he sadly passed before planned additional scenes could be filmed). 

Things I didn't like - the utterly, utterly pointless ethnicity change for Isaac Newton (imagine the furore there'd have been (and rightly so) if Mary Seacole in the Flux Sontarans episode had been played by a white actress). It was crowbarred-in 'diversity' for no good reason ... please leave actual historical figures as they were, thanks very much. Combined with the 'mavity' nonsense that came out of that scene, I don't think the episode would've have lost much if they'd dropped it altogether.   

I liked the mavity gag, it actually changing the timeline and The Doctor being aware of it but not Donna was fun, the race change was weird but I also didn't care that much since that was his only purpose in the episode. Also recognised him as one of the actors from It's A Sin so I wonder if they were literally like 'hmm let's cast someone hot' without caring about historical accuracy for the joke later. Which is a bit...eh but again, incredibly minor. Can't wait to see people make a huge deal of it again

Mary Seacole isn't really a good comparison because that episode is about her instead of just a one-off gag

[HunterTech 994]

I always get curious whenever someone says something is pointless, since I would think that if it really were so, it shouldn't be standing out then (especially if it's just merely who's been cast in this case). I suppose it's different when it's a historical figure, since I'm assuming DW doesn't deviate on that front usually.

 

Anyway, I've been getting a bit better at going through the 9th doctor's run after buying the BD set (even if it ultimately was never going to look great in HD), and it's been a wonderfully refreshing watch. With the bits of recent blockbuster media that I have seen, a lot of the emotion just doesn't get to come through as a result of how overly manufactured much of it can be. Here, it revels in the humanity that time travel would naturally bring out, and a lot of the sci-fi present is the sort of fantastically weird that makes you more intrigued about the universe instead of merely acknowledging it's different from normal. Dalek and Father's Day were two episodes that really gripped me in spite of already knowing how they were gonna go from fans talking about them, so I'd be thrilled to go through more of it soon.

[Thor 7,521]

Wouldn't it be great to have Ian Chesteron back for the 60th anniversary? William Russell is still around, believe it or not, at almost 100 years old. So is Carol Anne Ford, for that matter (age 83). Not gonna happen, though. I have no idea how Russell's health is these days.

 

Be that as it may, I've enjoyed the two new specials. It's comforting to have Davies back. Unlike the previous two showrunners, he knows how to balance the complex and/or the quirky with straightforward storytelling. I do have some issues, of course (and a lot of it has to do with previously mentioned "Dr. Woke" elements, including a Sir Isaac Newton that is apparently half Indian...I should probably not get into that too much, due to board rules). But overall, I'm pleased.

 

 

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Never got around to posting a comment on last week's episode. That was nice, if a bit lukewarm, and felt a bit rushed; maybe 10 or 20 minutes more would have given it a bit of space to breathe and prevented some bits from coming out of nowhere, but then I guess RTD has always been prone to that to some extent to begin with. Miriam Margolyes was fun.

 

Now this week's episode - very good! Nice balance of mysterious, grotesque, and some outright creepy bits. Gold's scores are much more subdued so far this time around, but they do work well, and in doing so still seem much more interesting than anything I heard during Whittaker's era.

 

And while I don't really remember anything about the Flux (and found that whole series to be so all over the place and random that I probably never figured out what it was about to begin with), RTD successfully leverages it to give the Doctor back the melancholy he started out with during RTD's initial run and wouldn't begin to get over until the Moffat era. Fits Tennant's Doctor persona(s) very well.

 

PS: I don't think the "mavity" thing it a simple throwaway joke. Seems to me it points to the Doctor and Donna disturbing some timeline when they landed in that tree, triggering whatever is happening when they return to Earth to meet Wilf.

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

14 hours ago, Thor said:

Wouldn't it be great to have Ian Chesteron back for the 60th anniversary? William Russell is still around, believe it or not, at almost 100 years old. So is Carol Anne Ford, for that matter (age 83). Not gonna happen, though. I have no idea how Russell's health is these days.

 

Be that as it may, I've enjoyed the two new specials. It's comforting to have Davies back. Unlike the previous two showrunners, he knows how to balance the complex and/or the quirky with straightforward storytelling. I do have some issues, of course (and a lot of it has to do with previously mentioned "Dr. Woke" elements, including a Sir Isaac Newton that is apparently half Indian...I should probably not get into that too much, due to board rules). But overall, I'm pleased.

 

 

 

 

It would be great, but he is apparently now sadly suffering from Alzheimers so I think maybe the appearance in the 'companions support group' in the Whittaker finale will probably be his last. Ford hasn't appeared since The Five Doctors special in '83 ... there were photos of her being shown around Capaldi's Tardis by the man himself, and given that Twelve kept a pic of Susan on his desk during his uni lecturing stint her reappearance in the show was thought to be definitely happening. But no.  

[DarthDementous 1,059]

12 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

PS: I don't think the "mavity" thing it a simple throwaway joke. Seems to me it points to the Doctor and Donna disturbing some timeline when they landed in that tree, triggering whatever is happening when they return to Earth to meet Wilf.

I think its purpose was just as a running gag and it may come up again. However, I believe what triggered the chaos on Earth is invoking a superstition at the edge of reality as 14 says he has a bad feeling about at the end of the episode

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

Doctor said he'd never been to the edge of the universe before, but yes he has ... the Capaldi ep 'Listen', for example. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

10 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

I think its purpose was just as a running gag and it may come up again. However, I believe what triggered the chaos on Earth is invoking a superstition at the edge of reality as 14 says he has a bad feeling about at the end of the episode

 

True about the superstition I suppose. But the Tardis had already left when Newton said "mavity", so wherever Donna got the word from remains to be explained. Also the Doctor also using it and later once saying "gravity" and then correcting himself indicates that he's either also affected by it (though not completely), or knows more than he lets on.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

On 05/12/2023 at 3:13 AM, Sweeping Strings said:

Doctor said he'd never been to the edge of the universe before, but yes he has ... the Capaldi ep 'Listen', for example. 

 

I didn't even realise that was meant to be the edge of the universe. This is the first "edge of everything" locations that actually felt like it lived up to the name

 

On 05/12/2023 at 8:59 AM, Marian Schedenig said:

 

True about the superstition I suppose. But the Tardis had already left when Newton said "mavity", so wherever Donna got the word from remains to be explained. Also the Doctor also using it and later once saying "gravity" and then correcting himself indicates that he's either also affected by it (though not completely), or knows more than he lets on.

 

Donna starts saying it because her timeline has been altered to Newton coining the term as mavity. 14 isn't a part of her timeline so he still calls it gravity but corrects himself because he knows Donna doesn't understand

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

FWIW in 'The Pirate Planet', the Fourth Doctor mentions meeting Newton ... says he sat in the tree dropping apples on him, then explained gravity over dinner  .  

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Finally watched the other night - I really liked it.

 

I'm not sure about the CG of the spaceship - I read some suggestions it was meant to be uncanny valley but it did come across to me as green screen that hasn't quite been done correctly. However, I was invested in the mystery from the word go so it didn't bother me. Performance masterclass from both actors too. It was a bit easy to see the final 'mistake' coming though, particularly as Donna walked into the Tardis and was a bit more in 'awe' than you'd have expected.

 

Gold's score was oddly Akinola-like in this one - lots of electronics and drones. I liked most of it, but I can see why many wouldn't.

 

The only plot thing that I didn't quite get was

Spoiler

once the Doctor had figured out about the bomb, obviously he and Donna needed to stop it... but why were the doubles trying to stop them? If the bomb goes off, they all die. If it doesn't, the real Doctor and Donna leave. I suppose they wanted to have a nice final chase sequence but I was asking myself what the doubles were actually trying to achieve, given they want the ship to survive and the real ones to bugger off.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm not sure about the CG of the spaceship - I read some suggestions it was meant to be uncanny valley but it did come across to me as green screen that hasn't quite been done correctly.

 

Didn't look odd to me. In fact, I think the budget finally shows in this new series. With Chibnall, all the money seemed to go into "spectacular" effects that looked totally fake and didn't blend with the actors or their performances at all. I found the first RTD seasons (much lower budget) far more convincing compared to that. Now we finally have a bigger budget *and* properly calibrated effects.

 

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

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once the Doctor had figured out about the bomb, obviously he and Donna needed to stop it... but why were the doubles trying to stop them? If the bomb goes off, they all die. If it doesn't, the real Doctor and Donna leave. I suppose they wanted to have a nice final chase sequence but I was asking myself what the doubles were actually trying to achieve, given they want the ship to survive and the real ones to bugger off.

 

Spoiler

Maybe they would be able to survive the explosion? And once the threat was gone, the Tardis would return, which is what the doubles' goal was.

 

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Aliens being able to survive an explosion doesn't seem overly believable. I'm sure it was just done to have a fun sequence right at the end. Every plot has a hole somewhere.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Well they came out of no-thing and only manifested in our universe (and had trouble with that), so I could easily imagine them being able to de-manifest to avoid the explosion. (Although in that case I suppose it would mean they might still be around)

[Brónach 1,302]

On 03/12/2023 at 8:15 PM, Thor said:

Wouldn't it be great to have Ian Chesteron back for the 60th anniversary? William Russell is still around, believe it or not, at almost 100 years old. So is Carol Anne Ford, for that matter (age 83). Not gonna happen, though. I have no idea how Russell's health is these days.

 

they did this kind of stuff like two episodes ago

[DarthDementous 1,059]

7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

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once the Doctor had figured out about the bomb, obviously he and Donna needed to stop it... but why were the doubles trying to stop them? If the bomb goes off, they all die. If it doesn't, the real Doctor and Donna leave. I suppose they wanted to have a nice final chase sequence but I was asking myself what the doubles were actually trying to achieve, given they want the ship to survive and the real ones to bugger off.

 

The Not-Things figure stuff out at the same pace as the people they're copying, The Doctor only right at the end clued in that the TARDIS would come back otherwise he wouldn't have been sprinting full-pelt trying to stop Not-14 from preventing the explosion

 

I was wondering why Not-14 didn't immediately shapeshift but I think it makes sense. The more they retain their copied form the closer they get to becoming perfect copies, at that point it was pure animalistic survival instinct that caused Not-14 to abandon that entirely as he realised he would die if he didn't reach the robot

[DarthDementous 1,059]

That was completely and utterly bonkers. I loved it, weirdly enough the only episode to immediately 'click' with me.

 

Spoiler

I audibly cheered when I heard the UNIT theme again, good god it has been so many years

Neil Patrick Harris was great and I would love to see him back as the Toymaker, particularly in his more quiet moments he really evoked the original Toymaker and helped me believe it was the same character

I had heard about the bi-generation rumour and was iffy about it but I really liked how it was done in context. The Doctor, encumbered by so much trauma and never stopping for a second because if he did it would completely obliterate him finally gets to have his cake and eat it too. Him finally having a family he can travel with is incredibly sweet and I really like the line that this is ultimately what he was fighting for. It's nice to see this showrunner acknowledge the absolute insane toll the events since 10 regenerated had on The Doctor and that there was a consequence for it, The Doctor quite literally had an identity and mental health crisis. As someone trying to learn to validate myself that scene where The Doctors hugged and 15 kissed him on the forehead really hit. The meta angle isn't lost on me either and this sets things up for a proper reboot that doesn't reset continuity. 15 still has all the memories, he is still The Doctor, but the trauma and baggage has been compartmentalised. Perfect for new viewers and sets things up for a more Classic Who approach which I would be down for especially after so many years of the same kind of characterisation. Ncuti really just owned the role right from the get-go but I'm keen to really get to know his Doctor in the Christmas Special as this was really just a glimpse.

I realise now looking back at all the past Specials they were all leading up to this, making a point at how The Doctor never stopped running, that extreme emotional outburst in Wild Blue Yonder, not being able to talk about how he was feeling and saying it would take 'one million years' to finally be okay, among many other pieces of foreshadowing. Very well done and we are in such a good place for the show to go into its new era proper now and have new viewers feel what it was like to watch Rose all those years ago in 2005. Well done RTD, that was no easy feat to make a transition like this work.

 

[TBO1711 32]

What an epic episode, it had an old companion + an old enemy. 

Spoiler

What do i say about the Bi-regeneration well at 1st i wasn't sure about the leak but after seeing i grew to it. It means Fourteen can live with Nobbles happily while Fifteen can go off on adventure with Ruby and other companions. Also Wilfred would be thrilled about having the Doctor stay with him. The interaction between Fourteen and Fifteen was great, and Fifteen is great to. One minor thing you don't need to camp up his gayness.

Looking forward to The Church On Ruby Road

[DarthDementous 1,059]

2 hours ago, TBO1711 said:

One minor thing you don't need to camp up his gayness.

...huh?

[TBO1711 32]

Spoiler

When The fifteenth doctor was telling the fourteenth doctor about his prize, he called the 14th Doctor honey. I don't mind that the fifteenth Doctor Gay but don't over do it with the gayness

 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, TBO1711 said:

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When The fifteenth doctor was telling the fourteenth doctor about his prize, he called the 14th Doctor honey. I don't mind that the fifteenth Doctor Gay but don't over do it with the gayness

 

I read that more as him being eccentric and a little bit flamboyant which is definitely not new territory for The Doctor

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Well, that was fun, mostly. It certainly ties the three specials together, but as an individual episode, it again felt a bit rushed, and some of the actual plotting therefore felt a bit out of the blue. But then, that (along with a slight over-fondness for dei ex machinae) has always been a characteristic of RTD's episodes, I suppose.

Spoiler

I'm not familiar with the Toymaker, so quite probably there were many allusions that went completely over my head. But Neil Patrick Harris was as good in the role as his German was (deliberately?) bad. Equally fun and threatening, and a nice fit for his fondness for magic.

 

After Ten's super-emotional first regeneration, the lightness (even fun-ness) of his second surprised me. I suppose it saved them from having to try to top last time, and the outcome for Ten is nice*, but it did feel a bit anti-climactic. Also, deus ex machina - give the episode 10 or 15 more minutes and they maybe could have set it up a bit better. Or not - I think RTD just doesn't care about that.

 

*) And it doesn't quite ring true to me. He deserves it, sure, and it's nice to see him enjoying "retirement". But driven as he was it doesn't convince me that he would settle down so easily. Plus I think he'd figure if there's two of them now, he'd have to make sure they can help twice as much - especially after just agonising over having lost half the universe the previous episode. Still, it's nice to have him around, and I guess chances are he'll show up again. (With two proper Doctors around now, he might even die for real at some point… now *that* would beat his first regeneration, emotionally)

 

Score was a very fitting blend of understated (but present) underscore and more extrovert stuff. And it sounds like Fifteen will get some fun music.

 

Gatwa also promises to be a lot of fun and seemed to own the role right away.

 

9 hours ago, TBO1711 said:

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When The fifteenth doctor was telling the fourteenth doctor about his prize, he called the 14th Doctor honey. I don't mind that the fifteenth Doctor Gay but don't over do it with the gayness

 

I think it was "love". It didn't seem like a sexually connotated thing though. (And if it was, and implies that Fifteen is gay, I'd say it was a relatively subtle hint).

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Just finished and boy was that a lot of fun. I had nothing whatsoever spoiled for me so I didn't see the split coming. I haven't seen Gatwa's other work but it looks like he's another refreshing take. NPH was really having fun with the role - very similar vein to Count Olaf.

 

I did wonder whether Tennant would have another emotional farewell and I do think this choice made the handover a bit easier without having to go through all that a second time and not 'losing' him. It strikes me that RTD has already demonstrated more inventiveness and imagination in three specials than Chibnall did in his entire tenure. I just can't see myself rewatching his series again, whereas I'm tempted to ask for the Blu-ray of these specials for Xmas.

 

I really hope there's a soundtrack release as quite a few moments were really memorable. Gold will be pissing off a lot of fans if he goes true on his thoughts that scores are to be heard in the show, and doesn't bother doing a release.

[TBO1711 32]

They said they are releasing The Goblin Song today but it hasn't come out and they didn't specify a time. So when will we get the song?

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Oh, and Tennant was excellent in this.

[Tallguy 3,401]

Gotta admit, I smiled

 

Spoiler

at 14's last words being (potentially) "Alons y". Not only his catch phrase but in contrast to "I don't want to go" it would be "Let's go".

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

I laughed. I cheered. I got the creeps (Donna being attacked by the dolls). I had 'something in my eye' (Donna and Mel holding the Doctor's hands so that he didn't have to go through regeneration alone). 

In other words, The Giggle did everything that I've come to love about Doctor Who. Bloody marvellous.  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

Did anyone spot the "Feels different, this time" quote?

[Brónach 1,302]

11 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Gold will be pissing off a lot of fans if he goes true on his thoughts that scores are to be heard in the show, and doesn't bother doing a release.

 

except when they aren't heard on the show i guess

 

13 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I think it was "love". It didn't seem like a sexually connotated thing though. (And if it was, and implies that Fifteen is gay, I'd say it was a relatively subtle hint).

 

he's being sweet to himself. it's been a long time since, say, Tenth hit Eleventh in the novelization of Day of the Doctor.

[Tallguy 3,401]

8 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Did anyone spot the "Feels different, this time" quote?

 

"Feels different this time", "Here we go again", I think there was at least one more.

 

For all this "Never stopped running" business, are we forgetting that 11 hid out for possibly hundreds of years after Amy? Really long time in any event.

[mstrox 6,651]

He chilled on Trenzalore for centuries and centuries before dying of old age in Time of the Doctor. 
 

But it’s much more important for something to have emotional/character resonance than perfect continuity.  That’s for people who are extremely rigid - leave that shit for the Wiki editors to figure out.

[Brónach 1,302]

it's not so much what literally happened or in which order with this character but about what was important

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

"Feels different this time", "Here we go again", I think there was at least one more.

 

For all this "Never stopped running" business, are we forgetting that 11 hid out for possibly hundreds of years after Amy? Really long time in any event.

 

At least 14 didn't say: "Never eat pears" 

 

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I sort of lost what was going on on Trenzalore and I definitely lost what the whole 'Timeless Child' thing is.

 

And I don't care. It's just a fun show. (well, it is now)

[Tallguy 3,401]

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

He chilled on Trenzalore for centuries and centuries before dying of old age in Time of the Doctor. 

 

That didn't seem to be very relaxing.

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Did anyone spot the "Feels different, this time" quote?

Yep. A little nod to DT's father-in-law's regeneration, almost certainly. 

[Tallguy 3,401]

We have a WINNER!

 

On 10/10/2023 at 4:33 AM, Sweeping Strings said:

We have new rumours. 

 

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At the end of the specials, Fourteen will 'bigenerate' - Gatwa's Fifteen will generate FROM him but NOT 'replace' him, allowing Fourteen and Donna to head off on their own adventures in a Disney+ spinoff series. And a spinoff series focusing on UNIT is apparently also on the way on Disney+. 

 Davies did say he'd big plans for the show.  

 

 

And a loser...

 

On 10/10/2023 at 7:23 AM, Tallguy said:

I don't believe it because I don't see RTD putting a "representation matters" Doctor in competition with The Most Popular Doctor Ever. 

[Brónach 1,302]

if i understand correctly there's a timeloop at play here but it's not very well explained. or perhaps that's on purpose.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

15 hours ago, TBO1711 said:

They said they are releasing The Goblin Song today but it hasn't come out and they didn't specify a time. So when will we get the song?

 

Obviously someone had to push a button somewhere. I just got an e-mail from Silva.

 

BTW, I evidently missed something here. What the hell is this?

 

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

14 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

We have a WINNER!

 

 

And a loser...

 

Hehehe, well there you go. I have an FB Whovian friend who's decided that the bigeneration was a bridge too far ... he's called it a 'cop-out' and declared that it means he's done with NuWho and will be sticking to Classic from now on. 

The Goblin Song will be in the Xmas special, as far as I know.  

[DarthDementous 1,059]

22 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Obviously someone had to push a button somewhere. I just got an e-mail from Silva.

 

BTW, I evidently missed something here. What the hell is this?

 

 

Source music played by a groovy Goblin band serenading the Goblin King eating a baby. I think the Goblins are literally going to be myth made manifest which is why they're a bit...off since it's going to be like a modern fairytale

[Brónach 1,302]

On 02/12/2023 at 4:55 AM, TSMefford said:

 

Considering all the drama in this thread over a single Doctor Who episode, my gripe was the poor music editing & sync in the title sequence.

I vastly prefer this fan-edit of the intro that restores the sync to what has been done traditionally. Makes it feel way better.

 

Loved the visuals though! It does indeed remind me of Smith's, which I'm partial to.

 

it's not the first time they try to change it. the sequence for series 8 was meant to show the actor names at the beginning with the clockwork parts, but they got told to change that.

[Sweeping Strings 2,364]

Wonder will Gatwa's title sequence reinstate the Doctor's face briefly appearing? Last seen during the Capaldi era.