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*The Official Episode III Film Review Thread*


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Neil, really it is a shame you cant enjoy what almost everyone does.

Anyone loved tarkin? Great characterization!

Anakin's turn to the dark side:

Palpatine, in his 'supposed' last moment just repeates he is exhausted and weak, meaning anakin is going to lose his opportunity to save padme.

Anakin cuts mace's arm. the didnt kill him, palpatine does. Anakin does not expect that im sure.

Anakin feels bad because he has betrayed a mentor. There is still good in him but his drak side sentiments are more powerful (attachment, fear...). He weeps on mustafar, and padme says there is still good in him.

Then quoting Yoda (as best as i can -and failoing miserably), beware of the Dark side, because once you are into it, dominate your future forever it will.

Anakin still needs to learn how to help padme. he has to accept the dark side. I think i saw palpatine doing something mentally to anakin, as if the latter surrendered his will and the former entered his mind.

And the motive of anakin's pledge to Sidious is strong. He KNOWS padme is going to die, as his dreams are equal to his mother's. He promised he would try to save everyone. Palpatine offers him a way, and he takes it. And have in mind anakin says to padme the same he will say to luke. destroy the emperor and rule together. Losing everything in the end, im sure he will decline that thought, untill he learns about Luke... But this is wishfull thinking.

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Then quoting Yoda (as best as i can -and failoing miserably), beware of the Dark side, because once you are into it, dominate your future forever it will.

"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

Dubbing sucks, doesn't it?

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What is laughable that i say 'love'? Should i said 'like'?

Characterization word doesnt exist? It a way to much for a character that had no lines? Here in Spain, t means make up someone to resemble another one.

And sorry, if you cant even accept the Young Tarkin was totally right, the dark side has blinded you more than i thought.

I'll pray for your soul...

"Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes!" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

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I forgot to mention, When Yoda leaves Kashyyyk, it is a nod to E.T.? I almost expected the pod to leave a trail :) ...

that´s probably one of the scenes that spielberg storyboarded :P

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I LOVED it. And I'm very glad I didn't hear the soundtrack or read any spoilers going in - it was such a cool experience to react to a Star Wars film on its own merits and my own opinions.

I thought Tarkin was completely right - I knew it was him from the first little glimpse (don't you see him, then the camera goes to Vader, then it comes back to him as Vader approaches him?). That was very cool.

I also thought Obi-Wan was fantastic - he did a fantastic job of developing his character from a hotheaded Padawan to one of the best of the Jedi - wise, cautious, and very reminiscent of Alec Guinness.

Really, everything was excellent, except I kept getting upset when we got dragged off from one duel (and more importantly, its accompanying score) to another and back. I think he kind of lost momentum that way. I can see why it was necessary, but it kept annoying me!

My favorite part (besides Yoda & the Royal Guards, of course!) came actually as Anakin was leaving Padme to go kill off the Trade Federation - it's not quite as powerful on the soundtrack, but the music underscoring that part really moved me. Not quite sure what it was about that part, but I kept thinking about it for the rest of the film. Some of his most brilliant writing - maybe ever?

I was doing okay, tear-wise, until Luke's theme came in at the very end - perfect. And the binary sunset thing again with the same horn solo and the same everything as in Ep II and IV - also perfect.

And on ET - the person I was watching it with leaned over and said "Who does he think he is, ET?" :)

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I must've missed Tarkin....where was he?

I also thought about E.T. when Yoda took off. :)

Something random I thought of: so the first Death Star takes what, like 20 years to build? And the second one, which is bigger, takes only a few?

The more I think of the movie as a whole, the more it seems like just the necessary and inevitable means to an end. Since we know where everything has to end up, I think it would have had to be pulled off with more inspiration to be truly engaging and compelling.

Ray Barnsbury

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- How's James Eral Jones as Vader's voice? In the trailers his voice ("Yes, master") sounds old and not deeply and resonating.

Check your sound system, or, go visit a doctor.

First you should compare for yourself James Earl Jones voice in ESB and then how he says "Yes master". It sounds old.

I don't know if someone already commented on this but you're both right.

In the first trailer or so you'll hear Vader in an odd voice, he ends in a high key as if asking the question "Yes Master?"

This has changed in the latter trailers, and is the one also used in the movie. In there Jones end in a low key as a statement "Yes, Master!"

I noticed it too, and the change.

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I've come to the conclusion that what the movie was lacking more than anything was the sense of occaision. The movie doesn't know it's the last Star Wars film.

Even with the closing shot? A perfect and fitting way to end the saga I thought.

I loved the idea. But even that drew a "meh". The idea sounded beautiful, poetic, and I loved that it closed with that iconic moment, really the spot that Luke picks up the fight from, with the force theme. But it should have been a beautiful, sweeping shot. It was not. It showed us two suns with 3 people standing in the foreground.

So you thought 'meh' because a camera was not sweeping? Is this the sort of thing you base a good or bad movie on? A perfect shot would have been nice sure, but if you base your conclusions around your own (preconceived) psychological ideas, your feelings will always win hands down no matter how good or bad a movie is.

Are you sure you haven't set yourself up to dislike more then you should?

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What is laughable that i say 'love'? Should i said 'like'?

Characterization word doesnt exist? It a way to much for a character that had no lines? Here in Spain,  t means make up someone to resemble another one.

Yes, charactherization means something else here. If you like the make up (which I think looks dreadful) then you can just say you like the make up. By saying you like the characterization, it means you like how Tarkin is shown by his portrayl. Since all he did was stand in front of a window and then walk away, there isn't much to work with there. He has no character, he just is a character.

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Neil

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I thought the best example of Lucas' improved pacing was the scene when Anakin was waiting in the Council Chambers, while Windu and co. went to arrest Palpatine. The cuts back and forth between Anakin and Padme...definitely didn't see anything resembling that in TPM or AotC. Then when Obi Wan leaves Mustafar, sitting next to Threepio in the cockpit was another excellent scene (with some of the best music in the movie--it also reminded me of the scenes with Vader talking to Luke on the Falcon at the end of Empire).

After seeing the closeup of Tarkin, it's best that the camera wasn't any closer to him in the film than it was. The guy looks more like a Tarkin-zombie. Sure, it looks like Peter Cushing, but it looks like he's in a Hammer zombie movie. Plus, that guy's too filled-out. Cushing was a frail, skinny guy.

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I loved the movie, I was totally engaged with the characters and the plot. I laughed, I cried, I got goosebumps. What a great night at the movies.

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Oh yes, I did think the scene that crosscut between Anakin and Padme was well done. Also, the montage of the births of the twins and Vader was good.

Ray Barnsbury - giving credit where credit is due

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Everything about that crosscut scene was brilliant. The music fit like a glove, and the color scheme was beautifully sad, you could really feel that this was the last dusk for the republic with no dawn coming in a long time.

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Well i must admit Tarkin looks better in the movie that he looks in close up, but really, the man should be about 50 in EP III so yes he can look a bit old.

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Lucas has finally vindicated himself...with the prequel trilogy. That was the only hope I had going into the film. I'm glad the dialogue is a bit more refined than the previous two, but nowhere the sharp and witty exchanges from the original trilogy. I had listened to the unabridged audiobook several times the past few weeks, and I'm glad we were spared some of the cheesy one liners. Either they were derived from early drafts of the screenplay (it's as bad as only Lucas can write it!) or they were "enhancements" by Matt Stover. Specifically, the scene when the newly initiated Darth Vader wipes out everyone on Mustafar. Oye! In the movie, Anakin lets his lightsaber do all the talking. Romantic dialogue is not Lucas's strength, but then again, he's been in a few failed relationships himself. I wonder if it was laying the same kind of schtick on the women he dated? "Marcia was cold and bitchy," he probably told Linda Ronstadt. "You're warm and soft all over."

What happens to Padmé at the end wasn't convincing enough. It was cool seeing the birth of Darth Vader, but there was not enough of him or seeing his POV in Vader's mask. It's just a tease. I thought Vader was supposed to go ballistic shortly after he "comes to life" and that his anguished scream was supposed to resonate really, really loud, to the point of causing even more damage to the surroundings. Instead, we got the standard cliche.

I would have probably have ended the film with Vader, the Emperor, and Tarkin overlooking the construction of the Death Star, since ROTS is supposed to be TESB of the prequels. Understandably, the whole point was that Luke & Leia represent the events to come, and that the seeds that Vader/Anakin planted will save them all.

The Anakin in this film is what I had hoped to see in AOTC. He seemed so unlikeable and snooty in Episode II, but here he is more mature, self assured, but caught in-between a rock and a hard place. He had the tragic, empathetic personality that I envisioned since ROTJ. I especially liked the emotional turmoil on his face as he is laying in the hot lava sands....the anger is swelling, but a part of Anakin is still there, unable to break free from the chains of Vader and the dark side.

The climactic lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin also seemed shorter than I thought it was going to be. It was very good, although I'm wondering why Obi-Wan lit his saber first prior to the duel. That's a sign of aggression.

Apparently there was quite a bit of transitional dialogue edited out (or maybe it just wasn't filmed?). Bail Organa orders Threepio's memory to be wiped without any explanation. Lucas jumped to the punchline without telling the joke. Yeah, we know 3P0 is quite the chatterbox. But it needed a scene where he talks too much and Organa remembers that something needed to be done.

Musically speaking, damn...so many great cues not on the album! In the movie, the main title does its traditional fadeout thing before segueing into the new cues, which I would have preferred. I liked the variations of Anakin's theme and the love theme to show how much turmoil Anakin was in and how much he was losing his grip on his direction and purpose.

Ben Burtt upstages Williams yet again by having his name appear first in the end credits. What a world.

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I also thought about E.T. when Yoda took off. :)  

Something random I thought of: so the first Death Star takes what, like 20 years to build?  And the second one, which is bigger, takes only a few?

Am I the only one who didn't think of E.T. ?

As for the Death Stars:

- wasn't the second one already in construction?

- once you've built one of something, corrected all the mistakes, solved all the problems, improved tevyerhing, building another one is relatievely easier & faster

- more efficient workers? / construction droids?

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I wouldn't say they corrected the mistakes. In fact, this one was even easier. On the DS1 they had to hit an exhaust port only two meters wide or something. On the DS2, they had to enter a tunnel big enough to fit the Falcon. The hard part was hauling ass out of there.

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I forgot.  I also laughed when Palpatine/Sidious says "No.  NO!!!  NOOO!!!" (just before shocking Mace). For anyone who didn't get it before, that scene in the office shows the split between the two characters and certainly proves that the Emperor is just a cackling buffoon. His temper tantrum there is so indicative of the piss poor character he really is.  And since so many people think this is his movie, it can only lead to one disappointing experience.

Neil

In all honesty, Neil... you would have hated that movie even if it was the original 1977 cut and you were watching it for the first time.

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I wouldn't say they corrected the mistakes. In fact, this one was even easier. On the DS1 they had to hit an exhaust port only two meters wide or something. On the DS2, they had to enter a tunnel big enough to fit the Falcon. The hard part was hauling ass out of there.

Well, it was supposed to have a working shield, and it wasn't finished yet.

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Finally saw the film.

Rather unengaging, and I wouldn't have liked it as a non-fan, but there were a couple great moments... Palpatine's duel with Mace Windu and his hideous transformation... the confrontation with Anakin and Obi-Wan before their duel... Obi-Wan in general, great acting by MacGregor finally. The Jedi purge didn't do anything for me, although I had a bit of an "ouch :|" feeling during the youngling scene (although it was annoying how Obi-Wan and Padme kept referring back to them). Vader's NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! was horrible. No excuse for that. The only thing that really got me was the second-to-last scene where Vader overlooks the construction of the Death Star. The segue from Qui-Gon's Funeral to Vader's Theme was PERFECT.

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My plans to see it were foiled again.Some people cancelled out.I should see it tomorrow.I feel so left out.

K.M.

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Another thing: I hated the additional percussion in "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan" and "Enter Lord Vader." Sounds like a Ben Burtt job, and if so, incredibly insulting, that he thought he could improve on Williams' music.

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Well I have had a few days now to analyze the movie. Overall I still like the film. I still think the movie is MUCH better than the first two and this one is actually enjoyable to watch.

I dont really consider it TRUE Star Wars like I do the OT, but it at least can earn the right to carry the name since it does no harm to the series' overall.

However, over the past few days I've realized there are some serious issues here. OH and no its not what you think. I am not going to bitch about the bad acting, dialogue and directing. Those while still flawed were still alot better here.

My main complaints with this film is STORY-WISE. Like I said previously this film rushed WAY too damn much. It had to do in one movie what it SHOULD have done in 3 but couldn't because Lucas wasted the fist two movies with mostly inconsequential stuff. The first movie was pretty much utterly pointless. I always felt the SW PRequels should have been handled like this:

Episode 1: Anakin and Obi-Wan meet and over the course of the film they develop a strong relationship while Anakin pursues a romance with Padme. I know what you are thinking but I always felt Anakin should NOT have been just a friggin child in Episode 1. Obi-Wan told Luke in A New Hope "When I met your father he was already a great starfighter pilot". Ummmmmmm no he wasn't! He a a whiny little brat.

Episode 2: This movie should focus on the downfall of the OBi-Wan master/student relationship. At the end of it Anakin makes the full commitment to go to the Dark Side and become Vader. This is how it should've been done. A entire movie devoted SOLELY to telling the story of Anakin's turn to darkness. In Episode 3 Abakin is telling Obi-Wan goodbye and like 20 minutes later he is a Sith Lord. WTF IS THAT ABOUT? Not to mention he makes his decision to turn in like 5 seconds. Oni minute hes helping the Jedi stop Palpy the next he is destroying them. COME ON! Here his turn to the dark side would be FAR more slower, believeable and methodical.

Episode 3: This episode deals with the annilhation of the Jedi, the confrontation between Obi-Wan and Anakin and his transformation into the Vader from the OT and the formation of the Empire. Essentially the current episode 3 tried to do this but Anakin didnt become Vader until like 2/3 of the way through. This movie allows FAR more time to properly develop all the points that needed to be in the finale.

A structure like this would have lead to a much more stronger and more powerfully emotional storyline. Sadly Lucas decided to dick around for the first two films.

Another problem I have with these films is the character of Obi-Wan. I hate how he was handled throughout this storyline. He was never around for ANY of Anakin's fall. He never wtinessed or knew of Anakin's killing the Sand People. He never knew of Anakin killing the unarmed Dooku. He never was there to witness Anakin's final turn toward the monster he would become. Obi-Wan was always conveniently "out of the picture" so to speak. I always wanted to have to witness Obi-Wan FULLY BEAR WITNESS to Anakin's downfall. I wanted him to have to watch in pain as he watched his beloved student and friend slowly slip away from him BUT WE NEVER GOT TO SEE THIS! Obi wasn't even aware Anakin was even turning to the dark side until he FULL commited to it for crying out loud. That is just wrong. I wasnted Obi-Wan to have to handle the pain of not being able to stop his student from going down the "dark path". The feeling of being a powerful Jedi Master but being powerless to stop his own student from being tempted towards evil. I also wanted Obi-Wan to have to deal ith the pain of Anakin's turn after he had witnessed it. The guilt of realising it was him who insisted on training this guy who was now a mass-murderer. The sorrow of realizing his own flaws may have contributed to Anakin's downfall. This brings me to my next point.

I hated how bloody "perfect" Obi-Wan was. He was too good for his own good. At the end of ROTS Obi says "I failed you Anakin". No you didn;t Obi! That is the problem. I always felt that Obi should have had noticable character flaws. Perhaps arrogance and overt self-pride. Things that would rub off on Anakin when he became powerful. Traits that Ben would later have to understand were part of the reason he lost Anakin. Ben lamented in ROTJ "I thought I could train Yoda as well as he had instructed me". However, Ben did a FLAWLESS job training Anakin. He showed alot more compassion for Anakin than any of the other "good guys" did. I also felt that Yoda's ambivalence towards Anakin should have been shown as a clear mistake on his part that directly lead to Anakin abandoning the Jedi.

Thats another thing. I REALLY hate the Jedi in these Prequels. They are a bunch of dogmatic, self-righteous holier than thou ASSHOLES. They think they are like the Forces gift to the world. They talk about how arrogant Anakin is. I'm like have you guys taken a good look at yourselves? I actually felt a damn good sense of satisfaction when they all died. I even applauded. Wasn't the only one too. These guys were of no help to friggin anyone and they spent more time discussing crap than dealing with problems. When I imagind the Jedi in the pre-prequel days I imagined a bunch of Luke Skywalker types. Guys who got out there and kicked ass and got the job done. I could never figure out why Ben and Yoda sat around and did jack shit while the Rebels were out there fighting for the cause. Now I understand. These guys are a bunch of pussys whp just talk about how they need to protect people but dont do a damn thing until the problem comes right to their doorstep. You almost cant blame Anakin for turning to the dark side. With a bunch of masters like these who the hell would want to be a Jedi? Palpatine sounded like a better friend than Obi-Wan to Anakin at times and unlike Obi Palpy is there when you need him. Hes not off on some damn mission.

Then there is the issue of the massive plot holes this series brings up. Beyond the many already discussed I have a few which I feel are REALLY pressing and have been created by the PRequels themselves because they relate to the continuity of the OT to the PRequels. They are:

1) Why do Obi-Wan and Yoda send Leia off to live with Bail Organa and Luke off to live with uncle Owen? That makes no sense. ITS VERY OBVIOUS that Yoda and Obi-Wan intended to use these kids as weapons to fight against the Sith. As a matter of fact there is even a line in ROTS that was cut from the final film where Obi-Wan says to Yoda "Do you think the Skywalker children will br strong enough to defeat Vader and the Emperor?". So if they planned to use these two kids as the "new Jedi". Why the friggin hell didn't they keep them and raise them in secret as Jedi? Wouldn't they have been the better idea? I mean why the FRIGGIN HELL would you send Luke the potential "greatest Jedi ever" to live as a bloody farm boy for the first 17 years or so until he is "too old to begin the training". If Jedi training needs to be done from such a extremely young age why not just keep them and train both of them from birth? In ROTJ Yoda complained about Luke facing Vader before he was ready. He should have been like "Ummmmm dumbass that is your fault for letting me work on a bloody farm for my whole damn childhood when I could've been learing how to be a kick ass Jedi warrior!". While Luke and Leia were letting their force powers go to wasted Ben and Yoda were sitting around doing absolutely nothing. They never even really bothered to help. They could've assisted Luke in defeating the Sith. Instead thy just decided to retire and let someone else handle the problem they started. SOME FRIGGIN JEDI!

2) Why was only Luke trained? Why didn't they train Leia too? She clearly had the power to command the force too. Why the friggin hell would you only train Luke and then send him off to face the Sith by himself? What so he can have no backup? Thats 2 on 1 odds. Not very bloody good. With Leia on his side it would have been even.

3) if Luke had to be sent off why the hell would you lsend him to live with his uncle Owen on Tatooine? I mean they are trying to keep these kids hidden from Vader. So they decide to sent him to live with Anakin's relatives on the planet he came from? OH yeah ........ that REALLY makes sense. Send him to live with his relatives. Vader will never think to look there. Not only do they send him to live with the extended Skywalker family. They dont EVEN FRIGGIN CHANGE HIS LAST NAME FOR GODS SAKES! How the hell are you gonna keep the kid a secret like this? That is just utterly moronic.

4) How the hell come Obi-Wan didn't know about Leia in ESB? In ESB Ben states "That boy is our last hope" and Yoda is like "no there is another". Yoda should have been like "Ummmmm Ben have you developed alzheimer's or something? There is still Luke's sister you idiot!". Its like Ben totally forgot about Luke's sibling. When I first saw the OT I thought Ben never knew about Leia and only Yoda did and Yoda later told him. However the Prequels CLEARLY display that Ben knew about both children. HELL he delivered them for crying out loud. So how come Ben forgot about Leia? The only explanation is maybe Ben thought Leia was killed in the explosion of Alderaan. I dont think he was Leia clearly before he died or maybe he did. Anyway regardless it doesn't matter. Even if Ben had thought she died on Alderaan he would've known by ESB that she was still alive because he had become an omni-present ghost who could know all and see all. Plus even if Ben still had though Leia was dead Yoda would not have said "No there is another". He would have said "No his sister is still alive". Ssaying "No! There is another" implies Ben never knew of Leia, which he CLEARLY did.

I dunno. Would anyone care to take a crack at those plot holes. Because they are pretty damn severe.

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I hated how bloody "perfect" Obi-Wan was. He was too good for his own good. At the end of ROTS Obi says "I failed you Anakin". No you didn;t Obi! That is the problem.

And that's exactly where he failed as a mentor. Everything wasn't good enough for Obi. He didn't want to fail his mission. He didn't want to fail Gui-Gon. Anakin was always wrong and Obi Wan was always superior. He commented Anakin on every little detail. He wanted it to be perfect. It was enough to drive any man to the dark side. This would've never happened if Qui-Gon was anakin's master because he was a strong and loving father figure for him.

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I hated how bloody "perfect" Obi-Wan was. He was too good for his own good. At the end of ROTS Obi says "I failed you Anakin". No you didn;t Obi! That is the problem.

And that's where he failed as a mentor. Everything wasn't good enough for Obi. He didn't want to fail his mission. Anakin was always wrong and Obi Wan was always superior. He commented Anakin on every little detail. It was enough to drive any man to the dark side. This would've never happened if Qui-Gon was anakin's master because he was a strong and loving father figure for him.

Sorry dude but that explanation does not work.

Obi-Wan was both a loving father figure and a caring friend in the same way Qui-Gonn would have been. OH and I didn't feel that Obi-Wan was on Anakin's case all the time. He corrected his sometimes but it was not that excessive. Not to mention he also made sure to reassure Anakin and always show his faith in him. It was the other Jedi around Obi-Wan who failed Anakin.

-Rogue LEader who is still waiting to see if anyone can explain his "plot holes".

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I hated how bloody "perfect" Obi-Wan was. He was too good for his own good. At the end of ROTS Obi says "I failed you Anakin". No you didn;t Obi! That is the problem.

And that's where he failed as a mentor. Everything wasn't good enough for Obi. He didn't want to fail his mission. Anakin was always wrong and Obi Wan was always superior. He commented Anakin on every little detail. It was enough to drive any man to the dark side. This would've never happened if Qui-Gon was anakin's master because he was a strong and loving father figure for him.

Sorry dude but that explanation does not work.

Obi-Wan was both a loving father figure and a caring friend in the same way Qui-Gonn would have been. OH and I didn't feel that Obi-Wan was on Anakin's case all the time. He corrected his sometimes but it was not that excessive. Not to mention he also made sure to reassure Anakin and always show his faith in him. It was the other Jedi around Obi-Wan who failed Anakin.

Sorry "dude", but I guess you don't get it. Theirs was always a competitive relationship. More competing friends than a warm father and son relationship. Have you not seen these movies, "dude"? Anakin was kept on a short leash at all times. He always critiqued him every step of the way. Amazing you've missed all that (AOTC is filled with it). That's why Anakin ran in the arms of the friendly Palpatine, who did the opposite of Obi, he complimented him, boosting his confidence instead of undermining it. No, "dude", my explanation is the only one that makes sense. Like you said, Obi Wan was perfect, it's not an easy thing to grow up with someone who wants everything to be perfect.

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Obi wan lit his lightsaber before anakin.

So did mace and co.

So did luke, in ESB and ROTJ (but this is intentional since Luke is untrained or angered by the emperor)

So did Anakin and obi wan in ATOC...

I think dealing with Sith lords make you a little jumpy...

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I hated how bloody "perfect" Obi-Wan was. He was too good for his own good. At the end of ROTS Obi says "I failed you Anakin". No you didn;t Obi! That is the problem.

And that's where he failed as a mentor. Everything wasn't good enough for Obi. He didn't want to fail his mission. Anakin was always wrong and Obi Wan was always superior. He commented Anakin on every little detail. It was enough to drive any man to the dark side. This would've never happened if Qui-Gon was anakin's master because he was a strong and loving father figure for him.

Sorry dude but that explanation does not work.

Obi-Wan was both a loving father figure and a caring friend in the same way Qui-Gonn would have been. OH and I didn't feel that Obi-Wan was on Anakin's case all the time. He corrected his sometimes but it was not that excessive. Not to mention he also made sure to reassure Anakin and always show his faith in him. It was the other Jedi around Obi-Wan who failed Anakin.

Sorry "dude", but I guess you don't get it. Theirs was always a competitive relationship. More competing friends than a warm father and son relationship. Have you not seen these movies, "dude"? Anakin was kept on a short leash at all times. He always critiqued him every step of the way. Amazing you've missed all that (AOTC is filled with it). That's why Anakin ran in the arms of the friendly Palpatine, who did the opposite of Obi, he complimented him, boosting his confidence instead of undermining it. No, "dude", my explanation is the only one that makes sense. Like you said, Obi Wan was perfect, it's not an easy thing to grow up with someone who wants everything to be perfect.

Sorry but I never caught any of this competing friends deal you are talking about. I beg to differ.

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I beg to differ.

Just like that, with no single argument? Rewatch Attack of the Clones, Rogue. Obi wants everything to be his way. He says "no" to Anakin all the time. He's always correcting him. For someone to grow into a complete person, criticism and never a good word is not a good base.

Anakin to Padmé (about Obi Wan): "In some ways, in many ways I’m ahead of him."

This illustrates Anakin's competitiveness. He thinks he's better than anyone and likes to demonstrate it (he takes on Dooku alone). Obi never fully reached him. Anakin was vulnerable and could not cope with certain things in life. Obi forgot how to make Anakin strong enough so he could deal with his inner fear. Obi failed. Obi is not perfect. And it made him a lot more likabe in Revenge of the Sith.

---------------

Alex Cremers

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I wouldn't say they corrected the mistakes. In fact, this one was even easier. On the DS1 they had to hit an exhaust port only two meters wide or something. On the DS2, they had to enter a tunnel big enough to fit the Falcon. The hard part was hauling ass out of there.

It's just struck me: DS2 isn't even finished yet-- half of it?

Oh, and the term I was looking for is "iron out", not "correct"-- same meaning, but sounds better.

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- Rogue -

the main problem is that the OT was precisely that: the OT; even though Lucas had a rough idea of prior events, he didn't have the details back then.

When writing the new ones, I think he thought more about the big things than "Ben said Anakin wanted Luke to have his saber" or "Ben said Luke is the only hope".

I don't think he know the movies by heart like you do.

Sure, given the time spent on the new movies, the devoted crew around him, someone should have thought of this.

However, whatever you do, you're always too involved, too focused on certain things, to notice certain flaws.

Given the scope of these three movies, the complexity of the production of only one of them, and the inevitable last-minute changes, you can't expect perfect continuity, especially regarding bits of dialogues written 30 yaars ago without a hint of the possibility of prequels.

Now, Lucas may correct some of these mistakes for the 30th Anniversary DVD set-- but then, don't come and complain if he changes Alec Guiness' dialogue to fill in this tiny hole (which might be accounted for another way-- Luke is the one trained as a warrior, Leia as a diplomat) to please you, instead of reshooting dozens of minutes of prequels.

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4) How the hell come Obi-Wan didn't know about Leia in ESB? In ESB Ben states "That boy is our last hope" and Yoda is like "no there is another". Yoda should have been like "Ummmmm Ben have you developed alzheimer's or something? There is still Luke's sister you idiot!". Its like Ben totally forgot about Luke's sibling. When I first saw the OT I thought Ben never knew about Leia and only Yoda did and Yoda later told him. However the Prequels CLEARLY display that Ben knew about both children. HELL he delivered them for crying out loud. So how come Ben forgot about Leia? The only explanation is maybe Ben thought Leia was killed in the explosion of Alderaan. I dont think he was Leia clearly before he died or maybe he did. Anyway regardless it doesn't matter. Even if Ben had thought she died on Alderaan he would've known by ESB that she was still alive because he had become an omni-present ghost who could know all and see all. Plus even if Ben still had though Leia was dead Yoda would not have said "No there is another". He would have said "No his sister is still alive". Ssaying "No! There is another" implies Ben never knew of Leia, which he CLEARLY did.

Yeah, thought of that too. And why was it okay for them to tell Luke about Leia before he confronted the Emperor and Vader? Her identity was no longer hidden and she was no longer safe. Dumb!

Neil

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I dunno. Would anyone care to take a crack at those plot holes. Because they are pretty damn severe.

Very simple: We know the plot is not waterproof tight. It's not perfect. So what? Why think those holes through endlessly and spoil the fun? What's the point?

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