The Episode II score: is it really so bad?

[A24 4,333]

if AOTC was a stand- alone film directed by another director (let's say, Paul W.S. Anderson), John would've refused the assignment.

That point is moot. If it was Star Wars Episode II he would have completed the saga. Lucas didn't direct Empire or Jedi and he did those.

I meant if it wasn't called "Star Wars", surely you were able to draw this conclusion from the rest of my post. Say, it's OK I call you surely, right?

[Henry B 50]

The Separatist theme is used almost exactly the same way (horns and low strings) all six or seven times it appears.

It is retracked in the film. Listen to the compositions, not the film and you might hear it.

It's hard to tell where the Separatist theme is tracked and where it is original. The only real variation on it is in "The Councils Confer" (early scene with Palpatine and the Jedi), where it becomes more ominous. I hear very little difference in the other statements of it.

[fommes 153]

The diversity of its use in the film could have been upped a little; "The Arena" sounds pretty much like "Finale" sounds pretty much like the concert version.

That has always bothered me too, in fact.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

For some crazy reason, I have to listen to "The Arena" 3 times a day at full blast, be it at home, work (w/ earphones), or in the car. And I am WAYYY too much into this soundtrack of late.

Just wanted to share.

[King Mark 3,631]

Let me put it this way,I'd take a properly produced complete score 2 c.d. set of AotC over a restored anamorphic widescreen version of the 1977 version of Star Wars on DVD.

K.M.

[Ollie 1,059]

AOTC is the poorest of all 6 films and I'll say it again, Williams, in my opinion, was not inspired and with Lucas editing the film up to the last minute he probably had no time to develope anything musically.

[Snowster 23]

Thanks for the reminder. Playing the Arena now...

-Snowster

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Thanks for the reminder. Playing the Arena now...

-Snowster

True! True! Glad I'm not the only one into this puppy!

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

i just listend to the cd again for the first time in a long time yesterday. still sounds good to me.

[adamtron 0]

I find the Attack Of The Clones score much more enjoyable then Revenge Of The Sith. Attack Of The Clones has a variety of action, drama and romance. I like Across The Stars, but I also find myself humming the Arena Theme. Also, I like the bold statement of the Imperial March at the end. The Revenge Of The Sith score on the other hand has been collecting dust on my shelf, as I find it to be lacking thematic development and other then Battle of the Heroes, it's just sort of lack luster in my opinion. So no I don't think "Attack Of The Clones" was bad.

[John Crichton 4]

Let me put it this way,I'd take a properly produced complete score 2 c.d. set of AotC over a restored anamorphic widescreen version of the 1977 version of Star Wars on DVD.

K.M.

Hear hear!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Let me put it this way,I'd take a properly produced complete score 2 c.d. set of AotC over a restored anamorphic widescreen version of the 1977 version of Star Wars on DVD.

K.M.

Hear hear!

Insanity, AOTC is still $#it, now as it was 4 years ago. Still the worst JW score of the 21st century.

[Jeshopk 8]

Hmm. It still sounds great to me. I listen to it all the time.

[Marcus 390]

To suggest that Williams' score for AOTC is anything less than great, is simply absurd, and devoid of musical truth. Williams wrote a wonderful score for a horrible film. It happens.

Whether or not it is one of Williams' finest efforts , it is nevertheless lightyears beyond what anyone of his contemporaries could ever hope to write, no matter how inspired.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I'd rather listen to a bad Horner score than AOTC.

[Marcus 390]

Why is that? Please be kinder to your ears!

[Ollie 1,059]

I'd rather listen to a bad Horner score than AOTC.

It may not be Williams best but it's not that bad Joe.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

yes it is,

besides I don't really have any bad Horner scores IMHO, not among those I own.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I'd take AOTC over...say...Commando any day.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Justin - Who thinks AOTC is a score that ranges from irritating to adequate to quite good.

I agree with Justin.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Hah, not exactly. People are just really bitter and have to exaggerate things I guess.

The score is the weakest of the Star Wars scores simply because nothing happens in it. It's not bad, it's just not what it could have been. Too much underscore and not enough original battle music for the climax.

[JMan 0]

I think of this when it comes to WOTW. Not great but not bad.

[lordskylark 1]

Actually... I wish we got a chance to hear the entire UNCUT UNTRACKED score. There's probably some awesome music that got cut. The review said JW composed 120 mins of music for the movie. The movie itself was just over 2 hours. The Genosis music was pre-planned to be tracked, and that it about 10mins worth. Then another 15-20 mins was tracked music. So, there's quite a bit that was never heard in the movie or the score. There could be some very awesome stuff we are missing out on.

~Sky

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,the original Finale replaced by the Imperial March I would die to hear.

K.M.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Still can't stop listening to "The Arena"!!

[Red 75]

I think that it is a great score, but it is not one of the series' best.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

another overuse of the word great.

not every score is great, and if something is great it should be among the best.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

AOTC has just over a minute of great music, Joe.

Ironically it's the 2 quiettest moments of the score.

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't think we'll get a true appreciation for the prequel scores until they are given a proper release in the same way as the Original Trilogy was. That way we'll know what Williams really intended and what was actually recorded.

Then again there may be those who still won't care.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm not sure I agree Mark.

There was a huge amount of appriciation for the OT scores long before they were given extended releases.

SW and TESB both ran in the 70 + minutes when they were released on vinyl, and though not complete it gave a pretty good overall view of the entire score.

The prequel releases are of similar length.

If what you say is true, then we didn't get true appriciation for Jaws untill a few years ago, or E.T.

And we still don't really appriciate Temple Of Doom.

But these all got much shorter releases then the prequels, and you still knew they were dynamite anyways.

[Ollie 1,059]

Oh no that's not what I meant.

I do agree with what you said but given the way Lucas chopped up the music in the film makes me want to hear what Williams had intended.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No I still disagree.

The Lost World is as badly edited as any Prequel.

Still the CD and what I can hear in the film tell me that it is without any doubt utterly brilliant.

[Jacck 23]

Well , I think this score is one of Williams best. And I still think that Zam the Assasin / Chase through Courscant is one of the best action cues Williams has ever written. The Across the Stars theme is beautiful, and very memorable. This is one of my favourite Williams scores, and I cannot understand at all why there are certain people on this board who claim to detest the score so much (except for Joeinar who is just clearly seeking attention )

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well , I think this score is one of Williams best. And I still think that Zam the Assasin / Chase through Courscant is one of the best action cues Williams has ever written.

Wrong, it almost completely lacks a narrative.

It's nearly 10 minutes very rythmic, very exciting music, that goes nowhere.

Or worse, goes all over the place.

Listen to A Visitor In San Diego for a far superiour version of this type of Williams music.

[pi 0]

This score is weird - it sounds like Williams' writing but it just sounds generic. It lacks the intelligence and guidance he uses in other scores. In fact dare I say it wonders?? It just is not as tight as the other star wars scores. It's still his awesome orchestration and rythms - it just lacks great notes and motific ideas.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

why does anyone care there are 5 Star Wars scores that range from better to not even in the ball park.

[scissorhands 16]

Well , I think this score is one of Williams best. And I still think that Zam the Assasin / Chase through Courscant is one of the best action cues Williams has ever written. The Across the Stars theme is beautiful, and very memorable. This is one of my favourite Williams scores, and I cannot understand at all why there are certain people on this board who claim to detest the score so much (except for Joeinar who is just clearly seeking attention )

My exact thoughts. And I'll go a step further and say that Chase Through Coruscant is his best action cue ever.

It ranks 3rd in my SW soundtrack list (only after TPM and ROTS).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And I'll go a step further and say that Chase Through Coruscant is his best action cue ever.

One small step for Peio, a giant step back for John Williams Fandom.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Zam the Assasin / Chase through Courscant

When little Bam Bam began conducting the orchestra...

[igor 0]

Well , I think this score is one of Williams best. And I still think that Zam the Assasin / Chase through Courscant is one of the best action cues Williams has ever written.

Wrong, it almost completely lacks a narrative.

It's nearly 10 minutes very rythmic, very exciting music, that goes nowhere.

Or worse, goes all over the place.

Listen to A Visitor In San Diego for a far superiour version of this type of Williams music.

Now that is wrong. It does have a very clear narrative and gets to its point by the end, and it also has very clear divisions to me. Very rhythmic, exciting music is an understatement, Steef, because that is the fabric that makes this type of music work. The Lost World track you mention is similar in some aspects, especially the last third, but that is about it.

What I can tell you is that I instinctiely feel that after that sequence, both the movie and the music change gear, meaning that they both had a clear purpose. Musically speaking, there are many significant rhythmic motifs that drive on the music. That's more than enough.

Igor

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Well , I think this score is one of Williams best. And I still think that Zam the Assasin / Chase through Courscant is one of the best action cues Williams has ever written. The Across the Stars theme is beautiful, and very memorable. This is one of my favourite Williams scores, and I cannot understand at all why there are certain people on this board who claim to detest the score so much (except for Joeinar who is just clearly seeking attention :spiny:)

My exact thoughts. And I'll go a step further and say that Chase Through Coruscant is his best action cue ever.

It ranks 3rd in my SW soundtrack list (only after TPM and ROTS).

marching to your own beat is one thing Peio, but really.

is it better than Desert Chase, or One Barrel Chase, or better than Tie Fighter Attack?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

is it better than Desert Chase, or One Barrel Chase, or better than Tie Fighter Attack?

Rather different styles to compare with don't you think? I would personally say no because as Steef said, the track goes nowhere since the chase on film more or less peters out too. If they had somehow edited the ending of the conveyor belt in to it then I would say 'maybe, just maybe'. :P

[King Mark 3,631]

Peio is know for his unconventionnal Williams tastes.

K.M.

[Trent B 337]

Why can't some people just accept the fact that there are others that really like the Episode II score? :roll:

Not everyone is bitter towards that score as some people are. :roll:

[JoeinAR 1,949]

don't you mean me, this is a forum, so we can discuss how wrong all of you are who like the score. Its a fair topic. But Im glad you like it, even the ugly duckling needs love.

[GoodMusician 56]

I've always wondered exactly how much of the score was unreleased.

By what I could see from my attempt at making a complete score, it seemed like so much of the film was tracked... which makes me wonder how much of that was planned and how much was just the editing... and if it was just the editing, what the real tracks are...

There are some great moments in the score but I think that score/film wise, the whole thing was a little slipshod and not up to the standards of the rest of the films...

I personally do like Episode II, but in comparison to the rest of the films.

I really would love to hear a complete score. I love the love theme... and the conflict motif is good--a little overused but that may not be his fault.

I also liked "The Arena," and the music for Shmi's funeral was good...

I do wonder though how much music is unused/unreleased though

[Trent B 337]

I believe from reports it said that Williams wrote a 120-125 minute score. A lot of it was tracked during the final editing of the film. Who knows if we'll get a well produced intended version of the score or not, hopefully one day we will.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

ugly duckling needs love.

Indeed since when it transforms into a 2 CD swan, it may be great(er)

[pi 0]

I think its cool that people like some of the lessly successful and popular cues and music in general.

[Diego 21]

I doubt there's a lot of unused unreleased music, judging from the amount of music that has apeared in videogames, AOTC has the less music leaked in videogames I think, and if there was some major unused action music it probably would have been in one of the games.

Anyway, in my opinion, like many others say, it is the weakest of the 6, but I don't think that means is bad, unlike some people say, I mean SW is probably the most famous score ever, ESB is loved so much by so many, so AOTC has some really tough company. I think the score has too many highlights to be considered bad.