Lost

[QMM 4]

Here's a much more complete version! Still a lot left to do, though. Again, if you see errors, ambiguities, mistakes, whatever, PLEASE let me know. And if you're going to find this useful, I'd like to hear that, too - it's nice to be able to gauge your interest a bit.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3OSGHJPD

I FIND THIS USEFUL

[Datameister 2,044]

[Olivier 5]

Thanks, Joe! I have just downloaded the file-- superb work!

Like Icanus, beisdes a very very few obvious themes, I can't identify anything, both because I'm paying attention to the story and because I am not aware of the various subtle motifs and variations.

As for samples, I'll make my own from the CDs.

[Datameister 2,044]

Thanks, Olivier!

I'm watching "Meet Kevin Johnson" again, and I find it very interesting that Libby appears to Michael and tells him NOT to blow up the Kahana. This could either be a genuine Island apparition or just Michael seeing things, but I'm inclined to think it's the former, which leads me to two questions:

1. Why wouldn't the Island want the boat and its crew gone? Does it want Widmore's people to take Ben away?

2. Does this mean that the Island is not omniscient? If it had known that it wasn't really going to detonate, it wouldn't have told him not to do it...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Can you imagine how amusing this Thread is to someone who has never seen an episode of Lost?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

How you sure you're not mixing amusing with confusing?

I bet if you watched The Life And Death Of Jeremy Bentham your head would hurt

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Believe me, it is a lot of both....

[Datameister 2,044]

Can you imagine how amusing this Thread is to someone who has never seen an episode of Lost?

People who haven't watched the show shouldn't read this thread! They should go to abc.com and start at the beginning of season 1, methodically watching through every episode of the best show known to man!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Great work Datameister! I'm digging these PDFs!

[Datameister 2,044]

Well, then, you'll be happy to know that...

I'm done!

That's right, my PDF now includes all of what I would probably consider the most important themes in the show thus far. I considered including Eloise's theme, but it's only been used in...four episodes, I think, and I don't know if we'll be seeing her again anytime soon. (No spoilers!) I'll certainly update this as seems necessary, and if you spot any mistakes or anything, let me know!

Download

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Well done! If this had been around last year when I was trying to familiarize myself with the scores and learn all the themes, it definitely would've been a lot easier.

Have you considered including the emotional variation on Ben's theme, at least as an extension of the entry as it is now? I know the melody line is the same, but there's a whole second phrase and of course, completely different harmonies that make it a separate entity in my eyes. Just wondering, as it's probably my favorite theme of the series. In any case, great job and it'll be nice to follow along as you make updates.

[Datameister 2,044]

Thanks! Yeah, I considered including that, but I decided against it to save space. However, my transcription of the piano version is up on the Lostpedia article in image form, a little over halfway down the page - it should be quite accurate.

And I agree about the theme, by the way. It was one of the first themes that really got me thinking about the music. I absolutely love the early trombone statements...they are so weird and sinister and alien. Quite scary. I think some of the directions Giacchino's taken the theme have been a little less impressive, but the quiet version with the harmonies and second phrase is certainly amazing.

[Olivier 5]

Updated file downloaded!

Thanks again!

1. Why wouldn't the Island want the boat and its crew gone? Does it want Widmore's people to take Ben away?

2. Does this mean that the Island is not omniscient? If it had known that it wasn't really going to detonate, it wouldn't have told him not to do it...

This mystery remains unsolved, indeed.

One of the hypotheses on the board I have been following since last fall (when I found it) (and possible on LostPedia or in the comments on J Wood's Powell's blog) is that there may be two different kinds of apparitions, vying and fighting for control of the Island; in particular, it was noted that Christian appeared dressed in two different ways, including black or white shoes.

Let's see...

The button Libby told Michael not to push was a fake one, which Ben explained was intended to prove he was a man with "a conscience or a greater purpose" (the "or a greater purpose" clause adds a major other possibility), who did not want to kill innocent people, unlike Widmore.

Firstly, did the button send Ben a signal? Of all the times he could have called, he did call after this.

Secondly, what would have happened if Michael had listened to Libby's apparition?

Ben would surely have called Michael and convinced him again-- or would Michael refused to listen to him again and have revealed himself to the crew? He did see Ben seemed to be right, and that it obviously was not a rescue mission.

Ben's mission for Michael was to give him a list of the crew.

The detonator was a fake; was the explosive genuine?

Would Ben have later told Michael how to detonate it? When? Later at sea, the same innocents would have been killed (but it might have served that "greater purpose"). Once the freighter had reached the Island was a bit too late, since, again, most of the dangerous ones would have already landed.

The Island is so powerful, to the point of preventing suicided thousands of miles away from it, that it not being truly omniscient seems a bit surprising; if it was omniscient enough to know about the "bomb" and to send "Libby" at the exact moment Michael was about to press the button, how could it not have known it was a fake bomb? Because it only knew about it through its connection to Michael (seeing through his eyes)?

Maybe the point was in fact to prevent Michael from believing Ben.

Had he not pressed the button, had he decided he would never do it, he would never have had this "proof" that Ben only wanted to kill the bad guys, did his best to spare innocents, and was thus ultimately a good guy.

Seeing Michael would not help him, Ben could then have explained it was a fake bomb, a test, a demonstration, but Michael might have believed it was a trick, and the only way of knowing for sure would have been to press the button, which he did not want to do.

"Libby" would have thus prevented Michael (and us) from finding out that Ben may not be so evil as we thought.

On both sides (Ben & "Libby"), it was thus never about actually killing anyone, but about making a point on Ben's righteousness: if Michael obeyed "Libby", he stayed with the idea Ben was ready to blow up innocents (cook, Frank, Minkowsky...) as well as bad guys; if he disobeyed her, he found out Ben was not so ruthless (with provisos-- the "or a greater purpose" clause).

Thanks for prompting me to think about it again; I think I have found a reasonable and possible explanation.

Of course, now that we have seen Ben kill Locke and state his lack of concern for the other passengers of flight Ajira 316, all this talk about innocents seems to have been a lie-- only, there's still this "or" clause.

In the case of the passengers, getting the 06-1 back on the Island is the greater purpose.

As for killing Locke, maybe we will learn in later episodes that this served a greater purpose too.

[Datameister 2,044]

Honestly, I think his thing about not killing innocent people was complete BS. He's a liar. Always has been, always will be. In fact, I'll bet that if you go back and watch every episode with Ben in it, you'll be able to find him lie at least once in each episode. (I should try that...) He had no greater purpose in trying to kill Locke the first time in "The Man Behind the Curtain," or when he killed Keamy and thus all the innocents aboard the freighter, or when he ordered his people to kill anyone who got in the way of them taking the pregnant women at the end of S3. And the Ajira passengers are another example, as you mentioned. He's a selfish man who has no regard for the lives of others, except for the very few he actually cares about.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

You're good with riddles. Your analytical approach to sci-fi issues has provided some interesting theories in the past.

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought so... and particularly with Lost I've long ago given up on trying to put the pieces together.

Yeah....did Ben always plan on killing Locke instead of allowing him to hang himself, or did Locke's mention of Ms. Hawking for some reason push Ben over the edge? He got a weird look at that point.

It seemed obvious to me that Locke mentioning Ms. Hawking was the last bit of information Ben needed from him... and possibly the only reason for Ben's trying to prevent Locke's suicide in the first place.

Alias' Sloane (another great casting decision) was interesting in this way too; they managed to make him human, fragile, and good, and not just an evil trickster.

Ooh yes, Rifkin was brilliant. As was O'Quinn in this latest episode.

[ashinyobject 0]

I am happy with the new couple

[Koray Savas 2,251]

But who knows how long that'll last with Kate back in the picture.

[ashinyobject 0]

Kate needs to be with Jack

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yes she does, and Sawyer should be with Juliet. But will he stay out of love with Kate?

[ashinyobject 0]

Nope

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Aside from all the Egyptian references on the island, this episode was just a filler. I really want this season to pick up. Two weeks until the next episode...

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Hmm...what shall we call the new couple? Suliet? They have a theme, too.

But I'm still in the Kate+Sawyer camp...they're just so right. I was breathless as she got out of the van. It'll be interesting to see how the love-square dynamics play out from here.

Oh, and the statue!! How wonderfully horrible of them to tease us like that.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

After this episode I have realized how Egyptian related this show has become.

The statue, which looks like Anubis or possibly Horus (suspiciously similar to Horrace), is holding two ankhs. Amy's husband wore an ankh around his neck. It's a hieroglyphic that translates to eternal life (something prominent in the show).

We had the hieroglyphics on The Temple, near the donkey wheel, on the door in Ben's house located in the Barracks, and in The Swan.

Tunisia, apparently the "exit" of the island, is close to Egypt.

Hurley was drawing a Sphinx when Locke visited him.

[Datameister 2,044]

You know, for a more character-driven episode, I really liked this one. Normally, I'm a bigger fan of getting down to the nitty-gritty mythological details of the Island, but this one really did it for me. Okay, we DID get to see the DHARMA folks in their daily life, and the statue, and Richard (geek-out moment for me!), but on the whole, it was more character-focused. The love quadrilateral is going to be veerrrrrry interesting to watch play out...I'm not wholly sold on the Sawyer-Juliet thing, but it certainly made me feel a lot better about the Sawyer-Kate thing, which I previously had more trouble with, since it conflicted with the Jack-Kate thing, which I've always been a fan of.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Two weeks until new Lost... Noooooooo!

Looking forward to seeing this play out. I really have no idea where the show is going now.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm not suprised about Juliet & Sawyer, it was obvious those two were headed for a relationship.

I'm curious though.... does their presence and Sawyer's discussion with Richard change Ben's future arrival and takeover of the Dharma compound?

[Incanus 5,715]

I'm not suprised about Juliet & Sawyer, it was obvious those two were headed for a relationship.

I'm curious though.... does their presence and Sawyer's discussion with Richard change Ben's future arrival and takeover of the Dharma compound?

Yes the Juliet & Sawyer relationship has been somewhat subtly in the works for a while in few of the previous episodes And of course Kate comes back just when they were getting comfortable. Let the awkwardness and relationship intrigue commence!

And as for the time travel I think it is safe to say that they can't alter the future as Daniel has been telling in several episodes. History will happen as it happened. In this episode Charlotte was there to prove that. She would leave and come back to the island no matter Daniel said or did in the past (1970's). But then it is also very interiguing how the main characters succeed in getting rid of most of the evidence of their being on the island in the past when they themselves come crashing on it in the future.

I am just waiting for the rest of the O6 to appear. Let's hope they at least landed in the same time and space with the rest.

[Datameister 2,044]

I also want to say that it was nice to finally hear Sawyer's theme on something OTHER than harp. The trombones delivered a statement right before the first commercial break.

Also, it drove me CRAZY hearing the background noise normally reserved for scenes involving Jacob's cabin. If you listen closely to the scene with Juliet and Sawyer next to the submarine at night, there's a faint wailing noise, a series of ascending tones that sounds somewhat like a bird call. I totally freaked out when I heard it, and then I was very disappointed when nothing came of it.

On an unrelated note, Sawyer's alternation between fake and real beards in the 1974 scenes was distracting.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I've been meaning to rewatch Live Together, Die Alone. The flash scenes keep reminding me of Desmond's hallucinatory trip from the beach into the hatch.

[Datameister 2,044]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

ANOTHER thing - I thought Giacchino made a very interesting musical choice in this episode. When Sawyer starts talking about his feelings for Kate or supposed lack thereof, instead of resorting to the love theme or Kate's theme or some combo of the two, Mikey G. uses the Oceanic 6 theme. It works on the level of sheer emotional content, certainly, but it's actually intellectually satisfying, too, since the events that led to the formation of the "Oceanic 6" were the events that separated the two. I wouldn't have thought to do that, personally, but I'm glad he did.

So, has anyone else noticed that not all of season 5 is available on abc.com? All the episodes through the end of season 4 are still up, but only the most recent episodes of season 5 are there, and the older ones keep disappearing. I hope this isn't a permanent change.

[Red 75]

I had this strange suspicion that Goodspeed's baby was actually Jacob, but I guess he doesn't have that much importance.

We now have an definite answer to how Faraday was in the Dharma construction tunnel at the beginning of the season.

[Datameister 2,044]

I was actually wondering if Aaron would somehow become Jacob eventually, with a similar lack of evidence. It's gonna be so frustrating if they don't explain Jacob until, like, the last episode of the sixth season...

[Red 75]

I was actually wondering if Aaron would somehow become Jacob eventually, with a similar lack of evidence. It's gonna be so frustrating if they don't explain Jacob until, like, the last episode of the sixth season...

Chances are they'll get to the Jacob stuff next season rather than the current one, although this season has been so baffling (in a good way) you never can know for sure.

[Datameister 2,044]

Yeah, that's what I'm figuring.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm thinking that I'm not gonna like how the show is gonna turn out. We're half way into the season, and have basically received no answers. Season 6 has to be big reveal after big reveal if it's gonna answer all the stuff from all the seasons.

[Datameister 2,044]

Perhaps I'm just a shameless optimist...but I think they are going to do a MAGNIFICENT job of tying up all the loose ends. They've had the overall game plan in mind for a couple of years now, and they know how many episodes they're working with, and they're obviously not going to give us EVERY little answer, because that'd actually be less fun...but I think they're going to give us just the right amount of information, leaving our minds blown in the most satisfying way after the very last episode.

But then it'll sink in that the show is over.

[Red 75]

I'd say they've answered a fair number of mysteries this season, but they have brought up a lot of new questions and conundrums. Such is the way of the show.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I remember watching the seasons a couple years ago and took notes on everything that was never answered. I had like 2 pages of notes, and that was like the first three seasons.

What the hell is going on with Walt? They kept pushing the whole "he's special" thing through Season 3, and then just dropped it in Season 4 and now in Season 5.

[Datameister 2,044]

Yeah, there are certainly a LOT of unanswered questions, yes. And like I said, I'm sure some or many of them will never be explicitly answered. For example, we may never know how exactly Walt came to be so "special." But through examples that are more relevant to the current direction of the show, we might learn enough about the Island to be able to infer how these things happen. I dunno. Like I said, maybe I'm just being overly optimistic. But hey, I wasn't all that impressed by season 4, yet I remained optimistic about the fifth season, and we're being treated to episode after episode of amazingness! So I'm sticking with my assumption that they know what they're doing.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm not nitpicking at like every unanswered thing. Walt is an important character that relates to A LOT of things. I think he's the one that seems most likely to not get as much detail as he deserves.

I want more attention paid to Alvar Hanso and Magnus Hanso. I'm pretty sure the Black Rock is still a significant aspect of the show, so I'm confident all that will be answered.

The numbers have kinda lost their significance since The Swan imploded, but I'm sure they'll be back.

I want Rose and Bernard back in the show, they'll probably be seen again by the end of the season.

[Datameister 2,044]

Now, THAT is one issue that's really irking - Rose and Bernard, I mean. Their come-and-go presence on the show has always annoyed me, but at a time like this, with their fate completely up in the air, it's just completely unacceptable. Not to mention the complete lack of concern that Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, and Daniel are showing for them, as well as any other survivors who might be out there. It's just silly.

One thing about Walt, Koray, is that they really couldn't have him on the show much for a while there - it just wouldn't have worked with Malcolm David Kelley aging so much in real life. Now that his voice has changed and he presumably won't be growing or changing as rapidly, it'd probably be feasible to bring him back into the show at some point. I have no idea if they WILL do that - and considering how unremarkable his acting has been for the few times we've seen him in the last few seasons, I won't be all that annoyed if they don't. But it'd be nice to get some closure, and it's certainly a possibility. What there won't be closure with, however, is his relationship with Michael. And that does frustrate me, as it frustrated the guy who played Michael. He didn't like being killed off right when there were so many opportunities for reconciliation.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Yes she does, and Sawyer should be with Juliet. But will he stay out of love with Kate?

To hell with Kate. Juliet is way hotter, way smarter, way cooler, and a better character played by a better actress.

Of course, Sawyer will f--k it up.

I'm thinking that I'm not gonna like how the show is gonna turn out. We're half way into the season, and have basically received no answers. Season 6 has to be big reveal after big reveal if it's gonna answer all the stuff from all the seasons.

You and I have the same worries, Koray. I don't think it'll actually happen ... but I worry about it.

My cable company lost the video for this episode for about fifteen minutes. Still a good episode, but I'm glad it's reairing next week so I can actually see all of it. Only hearing some of it isn't good enough.

[Datameister 2,044]

Just watch it online on abc.com! With my not-too-great TV and my excellent Internet connection, the show actually looks and sounds way better that way! I watch each episode when it airs on TV, but I go back and re-watch it the next day online, and it's always a better experience.

[Jay 37,372]

Wow. I finally got to watch last night's episode, and that's all I can say now. I must have said "wow" 5 times while watching lol

Surprised to come in here and see so many people poo-pooing the episode, I thought it was really great.

Still processing my thoughts on it...

[Datameister 2,044]

Who's poo-pooing the episode? I loved it, and I think everyone else here did, too!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I didn't. It was a filler that had some mildly interesting aspects, primarily the Egyptian references.

I just realized that the Season 5 finale will be the series' 100th episode. That should be a doozy.

[Datameister 2,044]

But you weren't poo-pooing it, per se...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Define poo-pooing. I don't think there has ever been a bad episode of Lost. Just varying degrees of awesomeness.

[Datameister 2,044]

Exactly!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think the only ones I would call bad are the Nikki and Paulo one, and that really, really, really bad one. I don't remember the name, but the preview for it said three big answers revealed, and they turned out to be three random questions Jack asked Alex. To clarify, Jack was locked in one of the bear cages, and the children from 815 and Cindy were just standing there randomly. Man that episode was terrible.

Hey, whatever happened to them? Probably something they hoped we'd forget about.