Lost

[ashinyobject 0]

Did anyone ever think that Desmond was lying to Charlie about Claire and Aaron so that he could leave and be with Penny?

[King Mark 3,631]

Tonight's episode was slow moving

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Yeah, I thought tonight's episode was pretty mediocre. Not bad; just not that great, either. Josh Holloway and Terry O'Quinn were really good, though.

The scene between Sawyer and Widmore especially felt like nothing more than the writers pushing pieces around.

[Red 75]

It wasn't as strong as the previous string of episodes, but I still enjoyed it. The twist with Sawyer in the sideways was pretty great and the stuff with Flocke (and Widmore) was good as well. Kate even managed not to be annoying, I found her stuff, particularly with Claire, to be executed well.

But really it's just a primer for next week's episode. I cannot wait for that.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

A primer indeed.

Did anybody else get a serious Richard Alpert vibe from Sawyer's outfit?

[crocodile 8,019]

It was good. The last three were pretty strong, not as good as some past ones though.

Karol - who now chooses to avoid the spoilers

[Jay 37,373]

I thought it was a good episode, I liked it more than last week's

I felt really REALLY dumb throughout though - the whole time Sawyer was on Hydra Island, first talking to Zoe then captured by a whole group, I was SO CONFUSED!!! I was like "who are these people?", just couldn't figure it out. Then when they got close to the sub I was like "ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Widmore!" I think part of my problem, besides being half-asleep last night, was that my girlfriend's DVR cut off the beginning of the episode. So we didn't see the "previously on" (which I would guess probably showed Widmore arriving in the sub), or the beginning of the actual show. Her recording started with Jin telling Sawyer that Locke wasn't really Locke. What else did I miss?

I quite enjoyed the flash-sideways this time. Regular reality Sawyer chooses to be a criminal, alt-reality he chooses to be a cop. But in both timelines he wants to kill Anthony Cooper. Will he pull it off in the alt-world? I betcha he won't.

Anybody else think that the person running at the end of the episode was going to be Charlie and not Kate? Was so random to just have Charlie's brother in it for 2 seconds like they did. Just to remind us that Charlie's still alive in that timeline I guess?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I don't think there was a "previously" with the episode, though I could be wrong.

Enjoyed the new episode. Even though it's not as fast-paced as the last few have been it's still very strong writing and good character stuff (even if Sawyer's flash-sideways doesn't bring much new to the table). Was expecting a Juliet cameo, but it never happened... Oh well.

My favourite bit? The last five seconds where Sawyer reveals that he plans to steal the sub... underscored by Giacchino's U-Boat motif from Medal of Honor. Seriously don't think I'll ever get tired of that man.

[Jay 37,373]

Hmmm, a post I saw on the FSM board mentioned that Giacchino didn't use the MOH sub theme this time

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Her recording started with Jin telling Sawyer that Locke wasn't really Locke. What else did I miss?

Jungle treetops. Crane down to reveal Claire's shack. Sawyer is walking across the small clearance in front of it, many of Claire's stuff scattered around. He walks up to a small campfire. A kettle is on the fire, whistling. Sawyer tries to take the kettle, burns his hand. "Son of a bitch." Using a small cloth, he takes the kettle off the fire and pours himself what appears to be some tea in a small cup.

Inside the shack, Jin lies on a mattress. Sawyer enters, looks at Jin, whose eyes are closed. He kneels down and shakes Jin's shoulder.

SAWYER

Jin. Come on, wake up, buddy. Wake up.

Jin rouses, looks surprised.

JIN

Sawyer.

(beat)

How long have I been out?

SAWYER

A while.

(re: Jin's leg)

Figured you could use a rest.

JIN

Claire and Locke. Where are they?

SAWYER

I don't know. They said they'd be back by sunup.

Jin rushes to get to his feet. Sawyer tries to calm him down.

JIN

We have to get out of here. Before they come back.

SAWYER

Easy, whoa, whoa. I'm with Locke.

JIN

That is not Locke.

There ya go. There was no "previously on Lost" montage.

[Jay 37,373]

No Previously On Lost montage? Odd!

Thanks for the transcript!

[Datameister 2,044]

Hmmm, a post I saw on the FSM board mentioned that Giacchino didn't use the MOH sub theme this time

They were wrong - I noticed it too. It was a nice, broad, short statement of it. I never tire of it, either...in fact, I prefer Giacchino's development of the theme in Lost over his development of the theme in MOH!

As for the episode itself, I enjoyed it, but still nothing stellar. It's a lot of setup right now.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

No Previously On Lost montage? Odd!

Well, it's not the first time.

Thanks for the transcript!

You're welcome. Even though it's a pretty elaborate way of stating you didn't miss much.

[Jay 37,373]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole Ben/Widmore/Jacob/MIB stuff

So Widmore used to be the leader of the Others (who as far as I know have always been on Jacob's side). At one point he starts leaving the island regularly, and has Penny with "an outsider" during this time. Eventually Ben takes over as leader of the Others, and in 1993 he kicks Widmore off the island. He starts Widmore Industries, tells Desmond he's not good enough for his daughter, funds Daniel Faraday's research, etc.

Meanwhile, he cannot return to the island because he doesn't know how to get there. But he desperately wants to get back, he's trying to find his way back to the island. He buys the journal of the Black Rock's first mate in 1996. He beats up an Other who was off-island, to try to get information about the location of the island (as seen in the videotape ben showed Locke). When he learns in 2004 that Oceanic 815 crashes on the island, he creates a fake Oceanic 815 crash site to throw anyone else off the scent.

Somehow shortly afterward, he learns where the island is (I don't think we've seen how he figured this out yet, right?). So in December 2004, he sends the Kahana to the island, instructing the crew to capture Ben and kill everyone else they find. This obviously didn't work and everyone from the freighter died except Lapidus and Miles. Also Ben turned the wheel, moving the island. So now Widmore can't find it again.

In late 2005 Ben shows up in Widmore's home and tells him that he's going to kill Penny because Widemore killed Alex. Claiming that Widmore changed the rules by doing so. Widmore also tells Ben that he wants "his" island back. Then in December 2007 Locke shows up in the Tunisian desert after re-setting the wheel. Widmore has a talk with him and basically tells Locke that he will help him round up the Oceanic Six and get them all back to the island. Locke asks Widmore why he would want Locke and the others back on the island, and Widmore says that there is a war coming and that if Locke is not back, the "wrong side" is going to win. Then a few days later Desmond shows up demanding to know where to find Faraday's mother. Widmore gives him the address in LA where he can find Eloise. A few days later he has flown to Los Angeles and has a conversation with Eloise outside the hospital where Desmond is being tended to.

Alright. So Widmore knew all along where the Lamp Post station was then, right? Or did he only knew where Eloise was, and had no idea that the Lamp Post was under the church? That seems unlikely. So if he knew where the Lamp Post was, why did he have so much trouble finding the island? That makes me assume that he DIDN'T know where the Lamp Post was.... but then how did he find the island now? His arrival via sub is only 10 days after his conversation with Eloise.

And he certainly appears to be on Jacob's side, and appears to want to kill the Man In Black (and he even knew to bring the sonar fence that could keep the MIB out of his area). But Ben Linus is also on Jacob's side... so why are they against each other? Does Widmore still think that he can take control back of "his" island considering that not only is Ben no longer in charge, but neither is Locke, and Jacob is dead?

Widmore told Locke that if he didn't go back to the island, that the wrong side would win the war. Who is this war between? Jacob and MIB? If so does that mean that since Ben killed Locke before he could return, that screwed everything up for the good guys, and that allowed the MIB to tip the scales (so to speak) in his favor? Is Widmore going to team up with Team Jack/Hurley/Sun/Ben/Miles/Richard and fight against Team F-Locke/Claire/Sayid/Kate/Sawyer/Jin?

I can't believe there's only 10 hours left of the show ever!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It was nice to get a little background info on the MIB. Based on what he told us, he was a man, that somehow turned into a pillar of black smoke.

[Jay 37,373]

When he was talking about his crazy mother, I was expecting him to finish the conversation by saying something like "and two days ago, I killed my brother Jacob"... seemed like that's where the conversation was going.

If anybody's curious, the clip #3 link that I posted yesterday is actually a scene from next week's episode, not last night's. I guess ABC screwed up and put a preview clip on their site early

[Red 75]

Somehow shortly afterward, he learns where the island is (I don't think we've seen how he figured this out yet, right?).

When Desmond turned the fail safe key in the hatch the island was visible to the outside world briefly, and it was located by Penny who was in search of Desmond. This is how Widmore located the island the first time, but it remains to be seen how he did it this time. I guess Jacob had a hand in it.

[Jay 37,373]

Ah, of course, how could I forget that!

Here's my theory: Since he clearly knew where Eloise was (gave Desmond the address, flew out there and talked to her around the time she was setting up Flight 316), he probably just wandered into her church, found the Lamp Post, and used it to find a window in which he could arrive there via sub.

Oh, and:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dfD_Y_KyqM

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Enjoyed the new episode. Even though it's not as fast-paced as the last few have been it's still very strong writing and good character stuff (even if Sawyer's flash-sideways doesn't bring much new to the table).

This is why I found it so immensely satisfying.

Oh, and Mike Schur, co-creator of Parks and Recreations, has his own theory about the narrative meaning of the flash sideways. He privately confessed it to Alan Sepinwall and goes thusly:

I think the alt-present scenes are an attempt to show what each character's true nature is, absent any situation where the island draws them more towards either Smokey or Jacob. This didn't occur to me until last night, but it felt like they were saying: Ben is an intellectual guy, searching for meaning in his life, frustrated by powerlessness, and thus capable of Machiavellian manipulations. But inherently, when push comes to shove, he is decent. Which is why in the island-reality he chose, at that crucial moment, to steer away from Smokey and back to Jacob. Sayid, on the other hand, has something inherently violent and evil in him, which is why in the alt-present he killed those guys, and on the island gave himself over to Smokey. Jack is deeply conflicted about his father and has it in him to be angry and conflicted, but in the alt-present he is inherently interested in being a good father himself and breaking the cycle of emotional abuse, so in the island-reality he's on Team Jacob, and so forth.

[...]

I think they are "influencing" what is happening on the island only inasmuch as they show us what these people truly are, in the truest existential sense -- their actual natures are at play in the alt-futures, and those "teetering-between-good-and-evil" natures, I guess you could say, are what Jacob "saw," somehow, and they are what led him to determine that they are "candidates." That moment where Smokey picked up the white rock off the scale and tossed it out the door is more fuel for this theory -- they pick people who are perfectly balanced between "bad" and "good" and bring them to the island as a sort of laboratory to determine which of those forces wins out in the end. So the events that are occurring in the island-present -- the Lost version of "The Stand," where sides are being drawn -- are the "result" (though not really, obviously, in the causal sense) of the alt-futures, wherein we are seeing that left to their own devices, each of these people tilts slightly to one side of the good/evil equation.

Just in case the show is not entirely about theories and secret meanings.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Tonight's episode was slow moving

worst of the season, and not the least, it was a very poor episode, filled with important tidbits, but still poor, then again Sawyer isn't such a facinating character.

[crocodile 8,019]

Hmmm, a post I saw on the FSM board mentioned that Giacchino didn't use the MOH sub theme this time

They were wrong - I noticed it too. It was a nice, broad, short statement of it. I never tire of it, either...in fact, I prefer Giacchino's development of the theme in Lost over his development of the theme in MOH!

As for the episode itself, I enjoyed it, but still nothing stellar. It's a lot of setup right now.

All the episode in the first half of every season are a setting the board, so to speak. We should reach the breaking point in 1-2 weeks.

I noticed the sub theme.

Karol

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

then again Sawyer isn't such a facinating character.

Really?

I've found Sawyer's series-spanning character arc has been one of the best. If not the best on the show. Great character.

[Olivier 5]

I felt really REALLY dumb throughout though - the whole time Sawyer was on Hydra Island, first talking to Zoe then captured by a whole group, I was SO CONFUSED!!! I was like "who are these people?", just couldn't figure it out. Then when they got close to the sub I was like "ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Widmore!" I think part of my problem, besides being half-asleep last night, was that my girlfriend's DVR cut off the beginning of the episode. So we didn't see the "previously on" (which I would guess probably showed Widmore arriving in the sub), or the beginning of the actual show. Her recording started with Jin telling Sawyer that Locke wasn't really Locke. What else did I miss?

Same here; I did not remember how many people were with Ilana, and actually thought they had all gone to the main Island.

These appear to have come on the sub, indeed.

Anybody else think that the person running at the end of the episode was going to be Charlie and not Kate? Was so random to just have Charlie's brother in it for 2 seconds like they did. Just to remind us that Charlie's still alive in that timeline I guess?

No, I thought it would be Zoe or some other girl (this much was clear: it was a woman), but I never thought of the obvious fugitive.

As for Charlie, I guess the point is rather that, once again, the characters are destined to meet, so Charlie ended up jailed just where Sawyer works.

This episode went by fast.

It was... okay; some good stuff, but overall, a bit lean.

Puffy's mother: he always has something to tell people, an experience or felling to share with them, to make them feel comfortable and empathized with, to win them over; is there any bit of truth?

Sawyer on the Island: Gee, he's just lying to both Puffy and Widmore by telling them the truth.

Sawyer in LA X: still the same obsession, and it's quite understandable.

Charlotte: nice to see her, though it was ad to see she is not with Daniel. Rebecca Madder was superb.

Widmore: not on the right side (Jacob's) according to Bram (Ilana's team), yet he's setting up a sonic fence to protect himself from the Smoke Monster and planning to kill it.

MiB was pretty astute, but did he just suspect part of Ilana's team had stayed on the Hydra, or had he actually guessed that someone else had come (those Jacob referred to upon dying?)?

[Datameister 2,044]

I've found Sawyer's series-spanning character arc has been one of the best. If not the best on the show. Great character.

I agree. His arc is by far the most satisfying. That's not to say that he's necessarily my favorite - Locke, Hurley, and Ben give him a pretty good run for his money, and all for totally different reasons - but their transformations over the course of the series have not been anywhere NEAR as compelling, believable, endearing, and interesting as Sawyer's.

[King Mark 3,631]

I like the Kate,Jack,Locke episodes the best

[Jay 37,373]

Charlotte: nice to see her, though it was ad to see she is not with Daniel. Rebecca Madder was superb.

Well, we only saw one day of her life in September 2004; In the "main" reality she didn't meet Daniel until December 2004 so maybe it will still happen

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm with everyone who thinks Sawyer is an excellent character. When he was talking to the girl in the beginning, I just knew the secret word would be "LaFleur." Loved it.

As for this imminent war, it's hard to theorize because we still don't know who the good guys are; something which has been present throughout the entire series. I take it Bram really had no idea what was going on, and was just a mere follower. So when he told Miles that Widmore was the bad guy, I don't think he really knew the big picture. However he knew enough to put the circle of ash around him, so I could be completely wrong.

Speaking of sides, what ever happened to Paik Industries? Weren't they somehow connected to Widmore Industries? I assume we'll learn more with the Jin/Sun flash-sideways.

I will agree this was the worst episode of the season thus far. It could be summed up in 10 minutes, and the writing was just poor. The opening conversation with Sawyer and Jin had poor dialogue/interaction, same with several other instances. I think the most interesting part was MIB talking about his mother, and Claire apologizing to Kate backed up with her amazing theme. You guys shouldn't fret though, because next week is going to be the biggest episode yet.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I still think a bad episode in the current run is still better than the average episode from the first three seasons. It was nice to take a break from the plot twists and heavy character moments.

[Incanus 5,716]

A bit slow episode this week. After the storming of the Temple things have slowed down but with last week's episode with Ben it was not a bad thing as the character's story arc reached a major turning point. This week we did not see anything particularly noteworthy from any character. Momentum slowed down with the back and forth trip to the Hydra island where little as possible happened. I could just about predict Sawyer's every move now. He is pissed off and nobody tells him what to do. He always has his own plan but now he has the empathy to bring his true friends with him, possibly. But I do not for a second believe that Widmore took the bait. He couldn't be that stupid, could he?

Funnily the writers didn't do much with the scene in the sub. Widmore ironically says: "It is sad, really. How little you know...". I felt almost the same for both Sawyer and us the viewers. I would have loved some exposition at this point but no. Wry smiles and handshakes. Widmore is certainly a man who does not reveal all his cards or his past in their entirety but a tiny hint of how is now back on the Island would have been great.

And MiB is still elusive, skirting his past, skirting the big secrets of the Island, downplaying the Island's significance at every turn and offering sympathetic remarks and stories about his alledged past to people hurt or ready to break down to sway them over. If he isn't the devil smiling and trying to win souls over to his cause then I do not know who is. Terry O'Quinn makes him out to be such an affable and generous fellow and Giacchino's use of Locke's old themes reinforces the effect but there are wonderful moments when the shroud is lifted a bit and the Monster can be seen in just the tiniest hint in O'Quinn's look or expression. Also these episodes with the group on different sides of the Island following Jacob and MiB seem like a game of chess. People are moved around to places they need to be for the final conflict. It is slow and deliberate and along the way both sides test their candidates for loyalty and other qualities. But these little tests really slow the momentum down a bit. I hope they lead to that moment of epiphany where we can say at the end of the story: "It was a winding road worth taking."

[Jay 37,373]

It's interesting to me that everyone says this week's episode was slow, but you all liked last week's, while I was the exact opposite. I thought this week's episode was great, and that it did move things along. I dunno.

I do agree, however, that I'm getting sick of the characters not just explaining things... I know its been a staple of the show from the beginning, but I feel like we're at the time that there should be no more stalling and we should be getting good explanations... and that the characters should be DEMANDING the explanations from the characters with the secrets. I dunno.

Here's two clips from next week's episodes.... They are both very short and don't give anyway anything new, but the second one is pretty cool (not to mention amazing they couldn't match the makeup and lighting between the old footage and new footage better)

clip1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQvfkEWBR3c

clip2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__davY0Uslk

and here's the press release

RICHARD ALPERT FACES A DIFFICULT CHOICE, ON ABC'S "LOST"

"Ab Aeterno" - Richard Alpert faces a difficult choice, on "Lost," TUESDAY, MARCH 23 (9:00-10:06 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

"Lost" stars Naveen Andrews as Sayid, Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Emilie de Ravin as Claire, Michael Emerson as Ben, Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus, Matthew Fox as Jack, Jorge Garcia as Hurley, Josh Holloway as Sawyer, Daniel Dae Kim as Jin, Yunjin Kim as Sun, Ken Leung as Miles, Evangeline Lilly as Kate, Terry O'Quinn as Locke and Zuleikha Robinson as Ilana.

Guest starring are

Mark Pellegrino as Jacob, Titus Welliver as man in black, Mirelly Taylor as Isabella, Steven Elder as Jonas Whitfield, Juan Carlos Cantu as Father Suarez, Jose Yenque as doctor, Izzy Diaz as Ignacio, Davo Coria as servant, Santiago Montone as prisoner and Sonya Masinovsky as Russian nurse.

"Ab Aeterno" was written by Melinda Hsu Taylor & Greggory Nations and directed by Tucker Gates.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Did anybody else get a serious Richard Alpert vibe from Sawyer's outfit?

Well?

[Datameister 2,044]

I didn't notice...

[Incanus 5,716]

Did anybody else get a serious Richard Alpert vibe from Sawyer's outfit?

Well?

Now that you twist my arm about it, I do think he has a bit similar outfit. He is now a kind of a spokesperson (with a lot more attitude than Mr. Alpert has) for MiB so I guess it could be intentional.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Jay, you know as well as I that we will be getting some major answers in next week's episode as well as a couple episodes down the line. Patience, my friend, patience.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

That was one of the most randomly edited and as a result dull episodes this show has done.

Individual pieces had glimmers of goodness, but the pacing and editing might as well have been selected at random, because the overall package had me jittering my leg waiting for this snooze-fest to end.

Say what you will about Exposè, but at least it was a polished and well constructed cheese episode, albeit out of place in the series as a whole.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Two pictures from tomorrow's sure-to-be-groundbreaking episode...

#1

#2

[Datameister 2,044]

Without having read any spoilers, I'm already feeling excited for whatever y'all are excited about. A Richard-centric episode, perhaps? Don't tell me if I'm right! I don't want to know. But I hope this week's episode is as good as it sounds like you think it might be.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

You don't even know the episode centricities?! Please tell me you at least know the titles of the episodes!

[Datameister 2,044]

I knew "LA X" and "What Kate Does" before the episodes aired...and "Dr. Linus"...and I accidentally stumbled upon this week's, though I can't remember what it was...I think that's it, though. Like I've said, I have more fun when I have absolutely no hints of what's coming! It's easy enough to go back and watch an episode again with knowledge of what happens it...but pretending not to know what I know when I watch something for the first time is a lot more difficult. Only get one chance to watch something for the first time, and I've figured out that I like it better if it's totally fresh.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I can understand that, but I'd like to know the episode title going, so I can appreciate it. It'd be like watching The Incident without knowing it was called The Incident.

[Red 75]

Two pictures from tomorrow's sure-to-be-groundbreaking episode...

#1

#2

Not a big surprise considering who the episode is about, but still awesome.

[Jay 37,373]

Yea I don't get it... when I go to a movie theater I know I'm seeing "The Bourne Supremacy" or "The Dark Knight". Why would reading an episode title before it airs do anything to hinder your enjoyment of it?

I mean, the episode is airing less than 24 hours from now and you don't know the name? I get not wanting to read the episode #16's title or something but....

Looking back on the episode titles from seasons 1-5 now, are there any that, if you had known a few weeks ahead of time, would have hindered your enjoyment of said episode at all?

[Datameister 2,044]

Yep! "The Incident" comes to mind. Or "LA X." I knew both of those beforehand, and both colored my perceptions about what was coming in ways I didn't like. Believe me, I'm not too persnickety about episode titles - of all the possible spoiler-ish tidbits of information, they're usually by far the most harmless. But I still sorta try to avoid them, which usually isn't too difficult. The only place I'd run into the title would be this thread. The vast majority of people have no idea what the next episode is called, and I just try to keep myself within that group, as long as it's not too inconvenient.

[Incanus 5,716]

I am hoping for an all out exposition episode. They ought to have done one by now. And we really need one by now. Some explanations to the biggest mysteries.

[Jay 37,373]

But even LostPedia tells you the name of the next episode that is going to air as soon as the new one airs

[Datameister 2,044]

But I don't check that on Lostpedia. I only use Lostpedia if I need to look something up, which is pretty rare these days, and if I do that, I usually just type "Lostpedia Sawyer" or "Lostpedia Black Rock" or whatever into Firefox's address bar, and it gets me where I need to go. No spoilers involved.

[Jay 37,373]

The title of the episode airing next is not a spoiler, I'm sorry it's just not.

Hey don't forget everyone, tonight's episode runs extra long - from 900 till 1006!

[Bryant Burnette 654]

It's a spoiler if you don't want to know it.

However, if one were that into avoiding spoilers, I'm not sure why one would EVER visit a Lostcentric forum. Not criticizing, just saying...

[Jay 37,373]

There's absolutely no problem with using using this thread to discuss the episodes that have already aired, and our speculation about future episodes. And we all have no problem putting known information about future episodes into spoiler tags. But putting the TITLE of the NEXT episode into spoiler tags is just going too far

[Datameister 2,044]

I didn't ask you guys to put episode titles in spoiler tags. I mean, heck, it'd be cool - certainly doesn't take much effort - but I'm really not losing any sleep over them. I just don't go out of my way to discover them beforehand. And Bryant...I've said it before...I trust y'all to follow convention and put actual real spoilers in spoiler tags. In my experience, you guys have been very good about it. If that becomes a problem, just let me know and I'll leave.

By the way, I was getting a haircut earlier, and the barber's TV was on, and I heard the promo for tonight's episode. (Couldn't really cover my ears in those circumstances... ) Should be pretty awesome!