Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted June 29, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2017 J.W. Rinzler, former Lucasfilm historian/archivist from 2001 to 2015 (and author of the beautiful original trilogy "Making Of" coffee-table books) has started a series of blog entries on his own website called "The Rise and Fall of Star Wars". It's gonna be a chronicle of his years at LFL and it promises to be filled with interesting stories. He's gonna publish stories three times a week. As he says in the first post, "This blog is about my time at Lucasfilm, from October 1, 2001, to December 31, 2015. As such, though I’ll try to be objective, my observations are no doubt my subjective views of these years, not any clinical “truth.” Looks like he has a lot to tell. Check it out. http://www.jwrinzler.com/blog Will, Jay, Arpy and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 "and Fall"? I take it he won't be glowing about the Disney era. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Sweet! Really hope he'll be able to sneak in a little something about what happened with Lucas and Disney, although I'm guessing a lot is covered by NDAs. From what I can tell of his recent tweets and such, he's decidedly on Team Lucas, not Team Disney, and, yeah, Disco Stu, calling it the "fall" of Star Wars is an even bigger statement in that direction, seemingly. If you remember, he co-wrote a TFA making-of book, but its release was delayed and then cancelled. --------------- Oooooh man, after reading that first post, I'm hooked. These posts can't come quickly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 5 hours ago, Will said: If you remember, he co-wrote a TFA making-of book, but its release was delayed and then cancelled. Got something to hide, Disney?? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 There was a lot of early behind-the-scenes drama, but I don't see why Lucasfilm couldn't have just edited that out and released the book. Very strange! Too bad; I really wanted to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 The BTS drama is their history, they should step up and own it. Sweeping it under the rug just looks bad. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Good so far. I don't like what Disney has done with Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Guy's done a service with his Making of books, amongst other things, but this reeks of petty whining. I'd be curious to see if any actually interesting BTS stuff comes out (though I tend to think that TFA book was scrapped because of spoilers), but otherwise I couldn't care less about "The Fall of Star Wars." That's just some melodramatic asshattery which I can't help but find pretty obnoxious. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Evil-Lyn said: Good so far. I don't like what Disney has done with Star Wars. Disney has saved Star Wars as far as I'm concerned. It was dead! 100% dead! mstrox, Holko, Arpy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yes, I realize you all worship Disney Star Wars and I'm going against the status quo. We've established this time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Maybe Star Wars should have stayed dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 The body is alive, but the mind is still dormant... A. A. Ron and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2017 4 hours ago, DominicCobb said: Guy's done a service with his Making of books, amongst other things, but this reeks of petty whining. I'd be curious to see if any actually interesting BTS stuff comes out (though I tend to think that TFA book was scrapped because of spoilers), If it was the case, wouldn't they have simply pushed back the release date after the film's release? Will, Bilbo and Arpy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 The release the bloody novelisation at about the same time as the movie too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said: The release the bloody novelisation at about the same time as the movie too. Yeah, ebook comes out day and date with the print edition following a few weeks later. it was definitely scrapped because of BTS friction. It'll be awhile before we learn the extent of it but TFA, Josh Trank, Rogue One, and now Han Solo have had a tonne of crap, with changes late in the game in both film released. I would hate to see what would happen if one of these films under performed. If listened to Rinzler speak a few times and I don't think he'll be any more biased in this than you'd expect. He gets asked questions about his time at Lucasfilm constantly so this is a good idea to put the record straight from his point of view Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 His disclaimer protects him from the Big Ears... Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 The only reason he is talking because he is one of them, spouting lies and hatred only to mask his true allegiance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Or maybe the book was cancelled because Disney refocused their business model towards younger audience? They certainly did that with the fiction novels. I doesn't have to be as dramatic. Maybe they're just not that interested in projects like this anymore. Either way, I'm interested in what he has to say. His making of books were excellent. In fact they are the best books of this sort out there. Karol Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, RPurton said: The only reason he is talking because he is one of them, spouting lies and hatred only to mask his true allegiance! It's a psywar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I don't work there. I AM THE MOUSE! Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 15 hours ago, Will said: From what I can tell of his recent tweets and such, he's decidedly on Team Lucas, not Team Disney, and, yeah, Disco Stu, calling it the "fall" of Star Wars is an even bigger statement in that direction, seemingly. Meh, that'd be disappointing then. I was hoping this would only be covering the Lucas years, and had assumed 'The Fall' referred to the prequel trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Quintus said: had assumed 'The Fall' referred to the prequel trilogy. So did we all. So did we all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 49 minutes ago, crocodile said: Or maybe the book was cancelled because Disney refocused their business model towards younger audience? They certainly did that with the fiction novels. I doesn't have to be as dramatic. Maybe they're just not that interested in projects like this anymore. Either way, I'm interested in what he has to say. His making of books were excellent. In fact they are the best books of this sort out there. Karol They haven't changed their fiction model at all. They're still releasing adult novels. They're releasing more kids books than before but they're still publishing 5-6 adult novels every year. The still release non-Fiction books for films. The Art of Books for example. A Making of RO was planned (even after TFA's cancellation) but because of the trouble there this has been changed to a photo book of the BTS process. 1 minute ago, BloodBoal said: So did we all. So did we all... People who worked at Lucasfilm and worked for Lucas tend to actually like the man having gotten to know him. Obviously the butt hurt fanboys on the interwebs know the real Lucas though Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 minute ago, BloodBoal said: So did we all. So did we all... Maybe Rinzler is another of Lucas' yes men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said: People who worked at Lucasfilm and worked for Lucas tend to actually like the man having gotten to know him. Obviously the butt hurt fanboys on the interwebs know the real Lucas though Liking the man is one thing. Liking his films is another! DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Liking the man is one thing. Liking his films is another! I think you can admire his intentions even if you aren't satisfied with their execution I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Does that mean we should admire it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 He made Attack of the Clones. He didn't invade Poland. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Does that mean we should admire it? Lucas put the Lu in Lucifer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Attack of the Clones invaded Polish cinemas, no? 50 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said: He made Attack of the Clones. He didn't invade Poland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Quintus said: Lucas put the Lu in Lucifer! We should have seen it. It was right there in front of us: Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Quintus said: Meh, that'd be disappointing then. I was hoping this would only be covering the Lucas years, and had assumed 'The Fall' referred to the prequel trilogy. If you consider his timeframe (2001-2015), the prequel trilogy is actually what he's calling "The Rise." So........ yeah..... Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said: Obviously the butt hurt fanboys on the interwebs know the real Lucas though Just because dumbasses exist doesn't invalidate the underlying viewpoint. We all share views with a lot of really stupid people. Also, why should I care if Lucas is a nice guy? That has nothing to do with the quality of his work. And yes, I can admire his ambition while thinking he made real shitty movies that I don't want to watch ever again. Conversely, I can recognize that Episode VII lacked ambition but think that it more than made up for that in other aspects. There's gray area! There's nuance! We don't have to be constrained by the "us vs. them" mentality of morons! DominicCobb and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, DominicCobb said: If you consider his timeframe (2001-2015), the prequel trilogy is actually what he's calling "The Rise." So........ yeah..... If you actually read his blog posts, it covers a period of time much broader than his personal association with LucasFilm. Post #2 for instance, is entirely about the 1970s. So........ yeah..... 8 hours ago, BloodBoal said: If it was the case, wouldn't they have simply pushed back the release date after the film's release? Maybe it contained spoilers for VIII and IX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Just because dumbasses exist doesn't invalidate the underlying viewpoint. We all share views with a lot of really stupid people. Also, why should I care if Lucas is a nice guy? That has nothing to do with the quality of his work. And yes, I can admire his ambition while thinking he made real shitty movies that I don't want to watch ever again. Conversely, I can recognize that Episode VII lacked ambition but think that it more than made up for that in other aspects. There's gray area! There's nuance! We don't have to be constrained by the "us vs. them" mentality of morons! Even if you don't like his films surely you can admire ILM, Skywalker Sound, Digital cinema (even if you think he overdid the whole digital thing himself, Lucasfilm saw levels of innovation and ambition under Lucas that simply won't be seen again. To dismiss Rinzler's opinions on Disney just because of your own feelings on the prequels or calling him a "yes man" isn't very nuanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Just now, Bilbo Skywalker said: Even if you don't like his films surely you can admire ILM, Skywalker Sound, Digital cinema (even if you think he overdid the whole digital thing himself, Lucasfilm saw levels of innovation and ambition under Lucas that simply won't be seen again. Yes, of course! Lucas is a visionary in the truest sense. He and James Cameron both actually push the medium forward. Quote To dismiss Rinzler's opinions on Disney just because of your own feelings on the prequels or calling him a "yes man" isn't very nuanced. I didn't do that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Yes, of course! Lucas is a visionary in the truest sense. He and James Cameron both actually push the medium forward. I didn't do that.... Of course you didn't, and sorry, it looks like I made out that you did. It was more in reaction to what some others are saying. Good point re: James Cameron though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2017 I will say that conversely, people who over-demonize Kathleen Kennedy are just as annoying. Bilbo, Will and John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: I will say that conversely, people who over-demonize Kathleen Kennedy are just as annoying. I suspect that while Lucasfilm has a certain amount of independence, Disney shareholders still call the shots. Keeping them is the priority and Kennedy's hands are tied. She, unfairly, gets the flack because of the position she's in. Will and John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted June 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2017 You can believe the prequels are literally burning piles of shit, but the amount of artistry that created that burning pile of shit has to be commended. From the BTS featurettes and making of books, all throughout production on RotS, Lucas faced problems, test screenings left the execs and producers cold and distant, yet I would say after taking each film with the shit everyone was giving him, the last of the three prequels is an underappreciated success. It was darker, it was visually gorgeous and most importantly it managed to wrap everything up neatly. Will, Pieter Boelen, cameron.osborn and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 While I don't hate ROTS as some do, I would hardly say it wrapped everything up neatly. DominicCobb and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said: I suspect that while Lucasfilm has a certain amount of independence, Disney shareholders still call the shots. Keeping them is the priority and Kennedy's hands are tied. She, unfairly, gets the flack because of the position she's in. Agreed. She has shown through her deeds and words that she is a producer who genuinely wants to help creative people do their best work. But being both president of Lucasfilm and the primary producer of all the films is a crazy position to be in. Answering to Disney and trying produce the best films possible. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted June 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2017 People give the brilliant Kathleen Kennedy stick online do they? First I've heard. Let me guess... horrible Star Wars neckbeards. mstrox, Not Mr. Big and DominicCobb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 13 hours ago, DominicCobb said: Guy's done a service with his Making of books, amongst other things, but this reeks of petty whining. I'd be curious to see if any actually interesting BTS stuff comes out (though I tend to think that TFA book was scrapped because of spoilers), but otherwise I couldn't care less about "The Fall of Star Wars." That's just some melodramatic asshattery which I can't help but find pretty obnoxious. I don't think it would be that hard to edit out the spoilers. I know I'm not the only one who doubts that's the real reason. Although, to your second point, yeah, "The Fall of Star Wars" does sound overdramatic. 6 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said: A Making of RO was planned (even after TFA's cancellation) but because of the trouble there this has been changed to a photo book of the BTS process. Oh wow. I hadn't seen that change. ----------------------- As a side note: Rinzler said a couple interesting things in the comments of his first blog entry (not actually spoilers, just saving space): Spoiler REPL YANCY EVANS 6/22/2017 01:02:07 PM I've long suspected Lucas intended to finish the sequel trilogy himself (with other directors), and most of those plans were dependant on completion of the Grady Ranch project. Unfortunately, when Marin County blocked those plans it forced George's retirement a little early. Grady Ranch would have afforded him the opportunity to supervise Star Wars from his own backyard, while allowing him to still spend time with his family... the best of both worlds. Looking forward to your next entry J.W. REPLY JWR 6/22/2017 01:10:59 PM Agreed and will discuss Grady Ranch later--have to work up to it chronologically... Spoiler ROB MCFARLANE 6/23/2017 06:10:57 AM I saw the original SW opening day at the Chinese Theater, and have been a huge fan ever since. I recently had a chance to tour the Ranch again after many years (having worked for ILM for a time in the 90's). Although the grounds of SR remains as beautiful as ever, I was somewhat saddened to find the formerly bustling buildings to be largely empty. Standing in the deserted yet still breathtaking library of the Main House, I couldn't help but wonder: Who is this for now? Who will use this? What will become of this place? Having read each of your books cover to cover I very much look forward to following your new blog. REPLY JWR 6/23/2017 08:00:26 AM Yep, the ranch is ghost town, except for Sky Sound. Blog will mention briefly, but later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DominicCobb 194 Posted June 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Muldoon said: If you actually read his blog posts, it covers a period of time much broader than his personal association with LucasFilm. Post #2 for instance, is entirely about the 1970s. So........ yeah..... All right, calm down. My skim of the posts told me that the stuff about Star Wars pre-him being there was mainly peripheral. So I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. But it did seem to me that he was lumping the prequels in with "the rise." Quote Maybe it contained spoilers for VIII and IX. That was what I meant by spoilers, yes. The TFA making of was supposed to come out until a few months after TFA was released anyway. 26 minutes ago, Will said: I don't think it would be that hard to edit out the spoilers. I know I'm not the only one who doubts that's the real reason. I only hope that they just wanted to put some distance between the production and the "tell all," as it were. Hard to believe the book ever would have spilled any dirt so soon after (haven't read the ROTS making of but I can't imagine it being nearly as open and honest as the OT ones, for instance). Hopefully we'll get a proper book of it someday down the line. Quote Although, to your second point, yeah, "The Fall of Star Wars" does sound overdramatic. 100%, when you realize that Star Wars is basically more popular now than it ever was before. Of course some will counter that that's because it sold out or whatever but I call bullshit. Star Wars has always been about making money, even when it was under Lucas. At least the movies are good again. Holko, Will and John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Bilbo Skywalker said: Even if you don't like his films surely you can admire ILM, Skywalker Sound, Digital cinema (even if you think he overdid the whole digital thing himself, Lucasfilm saw levels of innovation and ambition under Lucas that simply won't be seen again. To dismiss Rinzler's opinions on Disney just because of your own feelings on the prequels or calling him a "yes man" isn't very nuanced. Although I wish Lucas was a better writer, I can't deny his storytelling / visual skills. Now if only his CGI lovefest had happened later as opposed to earlier. karelm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now