Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Both of Williams/ 1975 scores were for Universal Pictures - The Eiger Sanction for Clint Eastwood and Jaws for Steven Spielberg. Both films and both scores were successful, particularly Jaws - the film basically created the summer blockbuster, and put both Spielberg and Williams on the map and in demand for the next 40 years and counting, while the LP was a huge success, selling millions of copies and winning Williams and Universal a Grammy for "Album of Best Original Score Written for a Motion Picture or a Television Special" So you would think that the next several scores Williams did would all get LP releases, right? But they didn't! In 1976, he scored two more pictures for Universal - Family Plot (for Alfred Hitchcock) and Midway (a big WW2 movie). Why wouldn't Universal have wanted to release LPs for these scores, especially since Jaws just won them a grammy? (His third 1976 score was The Missouri Breaks for United Artists, and they happily gave that film's score a nice LP release at the time of the film's release.) Luckily by 1977 all would be right in the world - Sure, Black Sunday didn't get an LP, but both Star Wars and Close Encounters of the Third Kind did - and were as big or bigger successes than Jaws, and every single film Williams has scored since has had an OST release at the time of the film's release since (with the sole exception of HeartBeeps in 1982). But what was Universal thinking by not giving Family Plot and Midway LP releases in 1976 after the smashing success of Jaws? Does anybody here who is old enough to have already been into John Williams at the time remember what it was like to go out and see Family Plot and Midway and then not be able to buy their scores? Chris ChrusherComix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Jay, you seems to think that every movie should have his score released on an album and at the same time, as if it was an obligation.Back in 1976, that was not the case.It would depend on the success of the film, its genre, the commercial potential of the score, etc.MOVIE REVIEWMidway (1976) On Film, the Battle of 'Midway' Is LostBy VINCENT CANBYPublished: June 19, 1976http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9B01E7DE143FE43BBC4152DFB066838D669EDEMOVIE REVIEWFamily Plot (1976) Screen: Hitchcock's 'Family Plot' Bubbles OverBy VINCENT CANBYPublished: April 10, 1976http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9C0DE7DF153BE334BC4852DFB266838D669EDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Jay, you seems to think that every movie should have his score released on an album at the same time, as if it was an obligation.Since 1983, that has been true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yeah, I think part of this is looking at the situation with post Star Wars 20/20 vision. Back in 1976 we had Abba, Bohemian Rhapsody burning up the charts. I think Universal was trailing the trend rather than taking on a risk. Also some of these recordings were not well maintained nor archived so decades could go by where people don't know where the original recordings were. Also, note there was a practice of the studios destroying old scores whose films were out of circulation. This practice pretty much ended in the 1970's and might have explained why nothing happened with some of these OST's. Today they are classics but back then it was a marketing tool. It's purpose was to help promote and sell the film. We are looking at this as music fans rather than marketers. I remember the 1970's and being a JW fan but didn't understand scores. I thought I had the star wars score because I had the Gerhardt recording only to realize years later that it was not the score. I have a feeling we are in need of JWfan's resident historian, Miguel, to weigh in. Isn't there a bat phone or something to call him in to this thread? Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Orchestral soundtracks didn't really become strong sellers in the 70's till Star Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Besides all the disco hits, 1976 was the year of Jerry Goldsmith, for the score of The Omen.Would John Williams have a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Guys - Universal's Jaws LP from 1975 was a massive seller, and won a grammy. That is why I find it so curious they didn't give Family Plot and Midway an LP the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 It simply wasn't fasionable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Guys - Universal's Jaws LP from 1975 was a massive seller, and won a grammy.That is why I find it so curious they didn't give Family Plot and Midway an LP the following year.Yes, but one data point doesn't make a trend. I think universal was late to the party. We, with post Star Wars vision, see Jaws as the start to the golden age of JW but I don't know if Universal would have thought that in 1975/6. That takes some very good insight, intuition and risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 And the LP's wouldn't have sold many copies. period. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted May 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted May 7, 2015 Jaws was a massive seller because of the film. The Eiger Sanction was probably also a successful release, so the LP would be likely to sell well too. As someone pointed already, we are looking at this as fans, and while today there is a huge fan base for film scores, back then I don't believe that was the case. There were no specialty labels who will risk releasing stuff only a handful of people will care about.The big, generic labels will release what brings the big $, even providing longer releases, covering the full extent of the CD, and since the late 70's Williams name was big enough to those big labels so that they would release his scores. And even then, the 2-LP set of Jedi never happened... A smaller, failed film, like Heartbeeps missed a LP release, and later on Spacecamp was also a flop and had what always seemed to me as a limited run, score wise. And by the later 80's, some of Williams smaller scores (for less visible film) weren't even released by any large lable, but rather by Varese Sarabande.So, while I have no real inside knowledge to support whatever theory, I firmly believe this was just a business decision, one that Williams probably understood as a natural one. And by the way, Midway had the two main marches released on a single, back then. TownerFan, karelm, Chris ChrusherComix and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 That's true, I forgot about the 45rpm single. Maybe they were going to look at the sales figures for that before deciding if it warranted a full LP.Still odd they wouldn't peg Family Plot as being worthy to me though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Psycho never got an OST release, nor did NBNW!What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 I just thought the combo of Williams and Hitchcock would be a good seller in the post-Jaws world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hitchcock's name didn't count as much by 1976. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 How many Hitchcock films got OST releases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have no clue about the whys and wherefores. All I know is that neither of those two scores are particularly good. Rather plodding affairs, with a track exception or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Family Plot? Plodding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Family Plod? Once and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hitch and I have been doing Plotted Family puns for over 14 years. Noobs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,829 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Guys - Universal's Jaws LP from 1975 was a massive seller, and won a grammy.That is why I find it so curious they didn't give Family Plot and Midway an LP the following year.As it is curious why the complete filmography of the most successful film composer ever, isn't available on cd even today after all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Guys - Universal's Jaws LP from 1975 was a massive seller, and won a grammy. That is why I find it so curious they didn't give Family Plot and Midway an LP the following year.As it is curious why the complete filmography of the most successful film composer ever, isn't available on cd even today after all these years. Well, not really, considering the archiving practices of the studio system in the 1950s-1960s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 JW himself has expressed little to no interest in having his earliest stuff released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Family Plod?LOL!Great theme, though (especially the end credits version which was available long before the soundtrack came out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Jaws was a massive seller because of the film. The Eiger Sanction was probably also a successful release, so the LP would be likely to sell well too. As someone pointed already, we are looking at this as fans, and while today there is a huge fan base for film scores, back then I don't believe that was the case. There were no specialty labels who will risk releasing stuff only a handful of people will care about.The big, generic labels will release what brings the big $, even providing longer releases, covering the full extent of the CD, and since the late 70's Williams name was big enough to those big labels so that they would release his scores. And even then, the 2-LP set of Jedi never happened... A smaller, failed film, like Heartbeeps missed a LP release, and later on Spacecamp was also a flop and had what always seemed to me as a limited run, score wise. And by the later 80's, some of Williams smaller scores (for less visible film) weren't even released by any large lable, but rather by Varese Sarabande.So, while I have no real inside knowledge to support whatever theory, I firmly believe this was just a business decision, one that Williams probably understood as a natural one. And by the way, Midway had the two main marches released on a single, back then.Spot-on!I just thought the combo of Williams and Hitchcock would be a good seller in the post-Jaws world.You overestimate the post-Jaws world in that regard. A Williams/Hitchcock after 1977, that would have been a good seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Alrighty then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 There is another possible reason: re-use fees. In the 70s, an orchestra could demand up to 100% of the fee, if the music was re-used in an OST. This is probably why "The Final Conflict" was not released as an OST until 1986, and a lot of scores did not get released or were rerecorded for the OST. Also, a rerecording gives the composer the opportunity to rethink his, or her, work, and to present it as they wish.The theme from "Midway" was released...sort of - on a single, in Japan, backed with "MOTYM" but who has that?Oh, I forgot...I do! (smug mode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 JW himself has expressed little to no interest in having his earliest stuff released.All the material he loved or was proud of, he re-recorded it with the Boston Pops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 It's just weird that Missouri Breaks got an OST LP right away by United Artists, but Universal didn't take a chance on Family Plot and Midway in the same year, and right after Jaws made them a ton of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Damn him!!!! How dare he????!!!!!!What about all the material that we love???!!!! Huh??? HUH????>!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Different studio policy or priorities maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'd love to own a CD of the score to The Sugarland Express. Shame John Williams doesn't want me to have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Different studio policy or priorities maybe.Possibly. Perhaps Universal thought that "Jaws" was a one-off, and didn't take into account the name John Williams. But how does that account for OSTs such as "Logan's Run"?Oops, went a bit wrong there. Post still stands, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I don't think John Williams really had much liberties on the score of Family Plot. It was surely a great experience to work with Hitchcock, but I don't think it was a project where he surpassed himself.Man, this 70's harpsichord... That's NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 I suppose it would be hard to turn that music into a 35 - 40 minute OST presentation that would have sold well then.Heck, Varese hasn't even been able to move 5,000 copies in a world where JW is a household name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I suppose it would be hard to turn that music into a 35 - 40 minute OST presentation that would have sold well then.Heck, Varese hasn't even been able to move 5,000 copies in a world where JW is a household name.I think with these kind of "previously unreleased score" released as limited editions, labels really scrape the bottom of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 Hey, this is pretty cool! Quint takes a rare look back at Universal's 1974 slate, which includes movies never made from the likes of George Lucas, Peter Bogdanovich and Don Siegel! Interesting alternate posters and stuff in there! John Williams would end up scoring 5 of the films in this catalog - The Sugarland Express, Earthquake, The Eiger Sanction, Family Plot, and Jaws. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: lol at the JAWS poster. It looks like a poster for a Puccini opera. And now Tony Spaghetti will sing his famous aria "Lo squalo mi mangia, quale disgrazia!" Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Cool article! Why is it that in this day and age we're so fascinated by alernates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 I wonder if it'd be possible to make an alt album cover from that Jaws poster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I still stick to my belief that Williams didn't consider MIDWAY or FAMILY PLOT particularly strong scores for soundtrack release. I know that's attributing my taste to Williams, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something in it, much like his alleged displeasure with SUGARLAND EXPRESS. Of course, he's been unable to "stop" releases of MIDWAY and FAMILY PLOT, but has managed to do so with SUGARLAND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Gosh, Williams really did work with Universal a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 Yep, more than any other studio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 He still has his office at Universal, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 That will determine whether I take the Backlot Tour or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Williams calling security, requesting the gaunt looking fellow with large eyes and unkempt hair be removed. Since he's been staring into Williams' studio for 31 hours straight. Without blinking.... Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Nevermind, all scores that haven't got an album, when they came out, got a directly-complete-score-release, later. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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