NEW Williams title coming from La-La Land Records June 16th 2015

[Incanus 5,714]

Move along! There is nothing, I repeat nothing, to see here!

Oh Incanus, what kind of off topic can of worms have you opened here...

I thought we were talking about bottlecaps.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Screw caps or those other ones that require an opener?

[Incanus 5,714]

Depends on what kind of bottlecaps you are collecting.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I'm still trying to make a listenable album out of JOHN GOLDFARB. It's an almost impossible task. I think the only way it could have worked is if Williams himself had rerecorded an album of it at the time, which he did with some of his other 60s scores. Sadly, that never happened.

Like Mancini who had to reduce his scores to collections of (good) pop tunes on album and was unhappy that nobody was interested in the actual score?

[Thor 7,504]

So you are unable to assemble an album for your own listening pleasure containing only the cues that you think are noteworthy?

I'm able to assemble a playlist, of course, but not a professional, thought-out, artistic album program.

Leaving that discussion aside, there's a secondary problem with JOHN GOLDFARB -- 1. the music isn't very good, so I've only managed to boil it down to about 25 minutes of noteworthy tracks, 2. there's too much 'instability' even with the chosen tracks, so they don't play out very well. Very few of the tracks are nice, self-contained pieces.

But of course, this an extreme example. Most C&C 'raw material' is easier to work with than this (if you have the time and energy, that is).

[crocodile 8,012]

We've got our own The Official Bottlecap Thread for that.

Karol

[Wojo 2,453]

As everyone knows, I'm not interested in expansions of anything.

Nope!

On 7 May 2014 at 1:38 am, you said:

"THE LION KING - a rare instance where I actually think an expansion is tantalizing." And there was great rejoicing at the FSM forums.

So don't sell yourself short, buddy. The expansion bug can be a real friend to you, if you permit it. It can also bankrupt you.

[crocodile 8,012]

Mostly the latter...

Karol

[Thor 7,504]

Looking at the list of LLL's John Williams releases, I count these:

HOME ALONE - expanded

HOME ALONE 2 - expanded

ROSEWOOD - expanded

THE FURY - expanded

HOOK - expanded

JANE EYRE - re-issue

EMPIRE OF THE SUN - expanded

The one that gives me hope here is the JANE EYRE release -- where they not only preserved the original program, but also turned their attention towards earlier Williams.

What we need is really an overview of the obstacles hindering scores like DADDY-O, I PASSED FOR WHITE, BECAUSE THEY'RE YOUNG, THE SECRET WAYS, GIDGET GOES TO ROME, THE KILLERS, THE RARE BREED, THE PLAINSMAN, DADDY'S GONE A-HUNTING and so forth.

Sometimes we know (or think we know) the reason, like SUGARLAND EXPRESS being boycotted by Williams himself (presumably -- there are only secondhand references by Roger Feigelson here). In other words, it would be interesting to hear if any labels -- including LLL -- have made any efforts to unearth these and what problems they have encountered.

[Jay 37,364]

I think with the closing of Film Score Monthly as a label, the amount of premiere releases of 50s-60s-70s scores, especially more obscure TV stuff, has somewhat subsided, though Intrada, Quartet, and even LLL do put out titles that qualify occasionally. There's no doubt that the 80s-90s titles sell better though, and are likely what keep the lights on at the labels.

Maybe when Lukas is done promoting his movie he will be more of a driving force to get some more obscure stuff out, through the labels mentioned. Who knows.

[publicist 4,643]

I honestly think that Williams is just not as good a seller apart from his more obvious/beloved scores. I don't have any real numbers but i remember FSM lamented this once: none of their Williams releases sold well apart from TOWERING INFERNO.

[Jay 37,364]

OK, that's simply just not true. Poseidon Adventure / Paper Chase / Conrack, Towering Inferno, John Goldfarb Please Come Home, Goodbye Mr Chips, and the first pressing of Superman: The Music all sold out. Additionally Checkmate / Rhythm In Motion went out of print, and A Guide For The Married Man, The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing, The Ghostbreaker, Diamond Head, and the second pressing of Superman The Music all have less than 200 copies to go before a sell out.

And that's just FSM.

[Ricard 2,245]

How many releases from the past 7 years are sold out or have less than 200 copies left?

http://www.jwfan.com/?page_id=249

[mstrox 6,651]

I hear they're about to run out of copies of WAR HORSE

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Hehehe...

[Jay 37,364]

How many releases from the past 7 years are sold out or have less than 200 copies left?

http://www.jwfan.com/?page_id=249

Does this help?

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18835

I think the answer is 14 titles: Superman The Music (Second Pressing), The Missouri Breaks, Midway, Poseidon Adventure, Home Alone, 1941, Hook, Cinderella Liberty, How To Steal A Million / Bachelor Flat, Space Camp, Fitzwilly, Images, The Long Goodbye, and Heidi.

[crocodile 8,012]

I honestly think that Williams is just not as good a seller apart from his more obvious/beloved scores. I don't have any real numbers but i remember FSM lamented this once: none of their Williams releases sold well apart from TOWERING INFERNO.

Yeah Black Sunday was a real Holy Grail and look what happened. It kind of ended the era of large quantity releases.

I exaggerate only a tiny little bit.

Karol

[Ricard 2,245]

But the number of recent sold out releases indicates he's still a very good seller.

I hear they're about to run out of copies of WAR HORSE

Obviously referring to specialty releases.

[Jay 37,364]

Indeed!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

OK, that's simply just not true. Poseidon Adventure / Paper Chase / Conrack, Towering Inferno, John Goldfarb Please Come Home, Goodbye Mr Chips, and the first pressing of Superman: The Music all sold out. Additionally Checkmate / Rhythm In Motion went out of print, and A Guide For The Married Man, The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing, The Ghostbreaker, Diamond Head, and the second pressing of Superman The Music all have less than 200 copies to go before a sell out.

And that's just FSM.

even if it was true it would be understandable since FSM released mostly early obscure Williams scores.

If they had released post 70's scores as the other labels are doing now they would have sold out equally.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Indeed!

Please stop making pointless point-count-padding posts. Thanks.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

[publicist 4,643]

OK, that's simply just not true. Poseidon Adventure / Paper Chase / Conrack, Towering Inferno, John Goldfarb Please Come Home, Goodbye Mr Chips, and the first pressing of Superman: The Music all sold out. Additionally Checkmate / Rhythm In Motion went out of print, and A Guide For The Married Man, The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing, The Ghostbreaker, Diamond Head, and the second pressing of Superman The Music all have less than 200 copies to go before a sell out.

I think you misunderstand the math here: just because a title is eventually is declared sold out (after up to 12 years) doesn't mean the label is happy with the sales. Kendall (i think) clearly stated they hoped for more ROI on some Williams-titles, considering popularity etc.

Most fast sell-outs have come totally out of the left field (SHEENA, anyone?).

[Thor 7,504]

I still think that if there is ANY composer (in addition to Goldsmith) whose obscure titles can sell more than anyone else, it's John Williams. OK, some might not sell out immediately (like HEARTBEEPS or JOHN GOLDFARB), but do so eventually. Additionally, if the music is actually good and gets lots of 'buzz' after release, the chances are even higher. That's why I think a rerecording of STORIA DI UNA DONNA would sell very well and justify the costs of recording, even if the title is obscure.

[crocodile 8,012]

But the number of recent sold out releases indicates he's still a very good seller.

Yes, Ricard. But they were not 10000 units releases.

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

It's strictly SALAMANDER territory (unknown movie in a non sf/fantasy genre scored by a beloved composer icon) and that was a disappointment, sales-wise.

If you had to foot the bills on this stuff, i'm not sure you still would be clamoring for GIDGET GOES TO ROME releases...this is strictly archivar territory and having seen some of those movies i can't say that the music was highly memorable or crying out for a release, though the two thrillers (DONNA/DADDY) have flair and deserve a release...

[TownerFan 4,983]

That's why I think a rerecording of STORIA DI UNA DONNA would sell very well and justify the costs of recording, even if the title is obscure.

James Fitzpatrick's re-recording choices follow a very simple rule: he selects his own favorite scores and composers, as he finances the projects mostly out of his own very pocket, so, unless he's as a big fan of Storia di una donna as much as you are, it's very unlikely he will tackle it.

However, it's very hard to predict how much a determined title will sell, even if a big name composer is attached. The soundtrack niche market is fluctuating--there are no sure-fire sellers because the market seems over-saturated now and it looks like most customers are not buying compulsively anymore. Of course titles from JW, Goldsmith and Horner will sell more units than an obscure Sol Kaplan 1960s score, but we're still talking small numbers in comparison to the overall market.

It seems to me the niche labels are now trying to put their hands on whatever cool title/property they can, but they already know they're down the winding road. In a few years they will have to reinvent their own business.

[publicist 4,643]

I think in LLL's case, that is already happening. They are cornering the video game market and all things considered, it's the right thing to do. By and large, every important Williams has been released, often in multiple form, and the only things that haven't come out expanded (DRACULA, JANE EYRE) are sadly lost.

If i were Tadlow, of those scores mentioned here, would re-record DRACULA...it's the only title that will sell to a bigger crowd.

[Thor 7,504]

Yeah, I'm not getting my hopes up on Tadlow rerecording STORIA. Fitzpatrick's response when I asked that was rather discouraging, to put it mildly ("send me $70.000, and I'll record it just for you!").

But as a John Williams completist and someone who thinks each title on his resume should be preserved for historical purposes at least, I prefer to stay optimistic and positive -- meaning that I hope some of these titles will either get a regular release down the road or be rerecorded by someone (if not Tadlow). As I mentioned earlier, I would be extremely curious to know what efforts the labels have made to unearth these things.

[crocodile 8,012]

If i were Tadlow, of those scores mentioned here, would re-record DRACULA...it's the only title that will sell to a bigger crowd.

That and Jane Eyre, yes.

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

If i were Tadlow, of those scores mentioned here, would re-record DRACULA...it's the only title that will sell to a bigger crowd.

That and Jane Eyre, yes.

Karol

Seconded!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

"Dracula", yes, if only for the improved sound, but there's nothing wrong with the sound of "Jane Eyre", so why re-record it?

[crocodile 8,012]

To have the complete score?

Karol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

Not sure if "JaneEyre" isn't complete, already. Of course, it's been a (long) while since I saw the TV show, so I could well be wrong. A complete score would be wonderful, but not half as wonderful as the complete "Dracula": the music as he arrives at Donald Plesance's home is simply great!

[crocodile 8,012]

I don't disagree.

Karol

[Ricard 2,245]

But the number of recent sold out releases indicates he's still a very good seller.

Yes, Ricard. But they were not 10000 units releases.

Karol

Of course. That would make him an excellent seller.

[Wojo 2,453]

OK, so how long before we see the niche soundtrack market adopt a Kickstarter or PledgeMusic type business model?

"These are the titles we want to go after. You commit to buying them and give us the money up front, we pursue the license and make or re-record the album, and then you get the music."

Logistically it's not as straightforward as a purely creative process like creating a new album from scratch. It's a vicious cycle: the labels won't pursue titles they feel could be bad sellers, which are the obscure ones only a minority of collectors crave, but the mechanism to secure our promise of a purchase before the album is decided upon does not exist. The Star Trek TOS box was moving forward regardless of the feedback that LLL requested, which was for quantity instead of existence, for example.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I've already mentioned that a couple of times. I feel like Kickstarter is the way to go for our market. Maybe there are some business logistics I'm not privy to, but I feel like it would easier for a label to convice a studio to release something if they could just go "Hey, we already got the money and buyers, all we need is the license."

[JohnnyD 1,223]

???

[Jay 37,364]

What are you confused about, Johnny?

[JohnnyD 1,223]

I thought this was a discussion about what the next expanded relase of the Maestro's work will be...

Oh well...

[Jay 37,364]

The next expanded release of the maestro's work will be Empire of the Sun.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

wow, really?

That's news to me...

not

[nightscape94 965]

I thought this was a discussion about what the next expanded relase of the Maestro's work will be...

Oh well...

It was...until it was announced

Now we're spitballing the next one!

[Incanus 5,714]

I thought this was a discussion about what the next expanded relase of the Maestro's work will be...

Oh well...

It was...until it was announced

Now we're spitballing the next one!

Yeah the previous release is the previous release! It is so last Tuesday! Bring on the next one!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm bored by EOTS already!

[mstrox 6,651]

When are we finally going to get a complete Star Wars Episode VII?

[Incanus 5,714]

Yeah it has been known for a good time that JW is scoring that film! Where is the complete score?!!!

[publicist 4,643]

It will be out on a Sony Ultimate Edition.

[JohnnyD 1,223]

...