Bayesian reacted to Holko in The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread
For some reason I thought about the space battle today. SW and RotJ spend just enough time setting up the precise plans ahead of time, and you know the goals and can follow it first time even when things temporarily go wrong (shield's up, gotta bide time - got caught, gotta have a ground battle to get another chance to deactivate the shield).
I've seen TROS once, and... what happened above Exogol?
The Resistance just went because we gotta fight.
The FO was already there unified with the Sith fighters and fleet, into the Final Order, in... that 18 hour time limit they idiotically gave again in the opening?
Enemy fleet ridiculously big, no real tension.
Finn and co ride horses on a Star Destroyer, until they don't. I don't know if I'd even remember it if it wasn't in the trailer.
They go for the one antenna which controls all the gajillion ships until it doesn't because now another one does.
Lando arrives out of nowhere with another ridiculous fleet out of nowhere, no impact, meh, we only see 10 shots of the whole thing anyway.
Palps überlightnings everything and they all start going down until he doesn't and they don't.
At some point Finn (and BB maybe?) open some hatch?
Richard E Grant gets blown out the window and the battle is won and they all go home.
I have no fucking clue what happened.
Bayesian reacted to mstrox in The Official La-La Land Records Thread
Per LLL Twitter:
"Limited Edition Soundtrack CDs available to order at lalalandrecords.com on 1/28 at noon pst - #DARKMAN 30th Anniv. 2-CD Expanded Set by @dannyelfman - expanded #HOFFA by #DavidNewman & #PANDORA Season 1 by @joekraemer & @PenkaKouneva ! #PandoraCW #DannyElfman #SamRaimi"
Don't believe me? Google it, I can't access social media on this contuter.
Heck yeah for Darkman!
Bayesian got a reaction from Jurassic Shark in The Official Varese Sarabande Thread
I’m with you there. AFO is actually a purchase I kind of regret making because there isn’t much on there that I care for. I should have put that $36 toward filling some catalog gaps in my collection from the reseller market.
Bayesian got a reaction from A Ghost From Highwood in Official Danny Elfman Thread
I have it, and it is great!
Know what else is great? The Dolittle score. It’s whimsical and charming and reminds me of Elfman in ‘90s, Burton-esque form. I love the main theme, which gets a nice workout in the track called “Opening.”
I understand the film is a total train wreck, but I’ll tell you the score on its own is a delightful listen.
Bayesian got a reaction from Yavar Moradi in The Official Varese Sarabande Thread
I’m with you there. AFO is actually a purchase I kind of regret making because there isn’t much on there that I care for. I should have put that $36 toward filling some catalog gaps in my collection from the reseller market.
Bayesian reacted to Andrej in John Williams to conduct the Cleveland Orchestra in April 2020
Some stills from tonights concert in Vienna
Bayesian reacted to Edmilson in Hans Zimmer's NO TIME TO DIE (2020) - James Bond #25
Powell and the Gregson-Williams brothers started their careers at RC/MV, so I didn't really counted them, only people who haven't been associated with it, or associated with them for a short period of time (i.e. JNH on the first two Nolan Bat-movies).
The mess on the post production of TROS seems to corroborrate that by being the exception to the rule. Despite working on the movie for almost an year, JW, an old school composer that still writes with pencil and paper, couldn't help but seeing his score to be utterly botchered on the final cut due to Abrams' indecisiveness and constant edits.
So yeah, JNH and Elfman were on complicated productions lately (specially the latter, who was on Ultron, Justice League and Doolittle) and, as you said, couldn't keep up with the constant edits due to pressured directors and desperate, insane studio executives.
That said, I don't think you can really compare blockbuster scores by JNH, Desplat, Elfman, Powell, Young, HGW, etc., to Zimmer. Sure, neither of them are probably not guilty of the "sin" of using additional composers, but I don't think that compares to what Zimmer does.
Most of his (or, better yet, "his") scores for DreamWorks kiddie movies are great examples: he is listed as sole composer for stuff like Kung Fu Panda 3 and the Madagascar movies, but almost all of the scoring on these stuff were done by his minions. I guess it's even worse to call Balfe an "additional composer" on KFP 3 as much of the job was done by him and Paul Mounsey.
On the other hand, Powell used additional composers on the Dragons movies, but still is his voice shining through and through. You listen to The Hidden World, you know it's a John Powell score; you listen to Kung Fu Panda 3, and, despite Zimmer being credited as solo composer, you know this was done by a team.
That's the point, even though people other than Zimmer have their own composers, you know that is still their job. Crimes of Grindelwald, The Hidden World and Justice League are as JNH, Powell and Elfman as it gets.
Tbh, it brings me no joy crapping on Zimmer like this. Despite the jokes, I genuinely think he is a hardworking man, and if it wasn't for his late 90s/early 2000s scores (specially The Last Samurai and At World's End), I probably wouldn't be here at JWFan today.
And it's not like almost every single one of his scores are done by committee. It was suggested a while ago that, despite him and Junkie being credited as composers for Batman v Superman, it was Zimmer (and co.) that handled most of the job, while JXL was focusing on Deadpool (in hindsight, it was the right decision, Deadpool got better reviews and outperformed BvS at the domestic box office, lol).
What annoys me is seeing Zimmer doing little job on some scores while he focuses on publicity stunts, a situation that is certainly not comparable to other composers.
Bayesian reacted to Naïve Old Fart in JW's "The Mecha World" vs. JH's "The Machine Age"
THE MACHINE AGE sounds like typical late 90s Horner, which sounds like a souped-up, proto A BEAUTIFUL MIND, and, at around 3:10 goes all BIRD OF PREY DECLOAKS.
THE MECHA WORLD, on the other hand, is among the finest single pieces of film music, in the last 30 years.
Absolutely no fucking contest.
Williams stamps all over the Horner track, and goes "Cock-a-doodle-do"!
Good day, to you, sir.
Bayesian reacted to publicist in JW's "The Mecha World" vs. JH's "The Machine Age"
Both evoke John Adams, though JW's piece is much more modeled on Adams' famous music. Horner leans on several minimalist composers with his interlocking pianos (Adams' Halleluia Junction' may be a template). For me, Horner sounds more 'mathematic', which was obviously the gestating idea when it was applied to the two pictures linked below.
Bayesian reacted to Nick Parker in JW's "The Mecha World" vs. JH's "The Machine Age"
I know you were asking Richard, but as someone who considers this track not just a Williams highlight, but one of his favorite tracks ever, I'll say why I love it.
The track is like you're a tiny Innerspace version of yourself riding on a river. It starts with a steady, yet small stream, with this sense of chugging and churning anticipation. It's light for a little while, but Williams gradually introduces the deep, lower end, building that anticipation even further. The chords start getting more dissonant, and that almost neutral sense of anticipation from before gets colored, and ominous; like that little stream you've been riding on is expanding, and you feel yourself starting to go down a slope, unsure if you'll quite make the drop. You do, and the track keeps building, and building. Come on, Williams, can you push it any more than you have?
The answer is yes. After a brief respite, the music suddenly inclines even more, sharply, getting intense, more intense, more intense, then! 3:08 hits, and you see the whole vista in front of you has expanded into this beautiful, wide view of paradise. Bliss. The water is white levels of intensity, before calming down to a tranquil trickle, and your ride stops there.
AI is a very spiritual score for me, and The Mecha World is one of several tracks that hit really close to home.
Bayesian reacted to Edmilson in Alexandre Desplat's LITTLE WOMEN (2019)
Cool interview with Alex about his scoring process on this movie
I haven't liked much the OST when I listened to it, but maybe it works great on the movie.
Bayesian got a reaction from Yavar Moradi in Danny Elfman's DOLORES CLAIBORNE - NEW! 2020 2CD Varese Deluxe Edition
Right out of left field, that one! What a fun week for us Elfman fans! Ordered.
Bayesian reacted to Seth in Where would you rank John Williams in the classical world, technique-wise?
I don't know if this question was meant for the peanut gallery, but I'm willing to take a stab at it. In my mind, form has a lot of impact on how interesting and involving a musical work is and can affect how I receive a piece emotionally or intellectually. It can reveal a lot about a composer's ability to manipulate his/her material and get mileage out of it, so to speak, and it can show a great deal about pacing and architecture, and how everything fits together. Form affects everything, from how the piece's building blocks (whether it's melodic material, textural, harmonic, or rhythmic devices, etc.) are established, and then how those building blocks get rearranged, elaborated on, varied, combined, and so on. I actually agree with @TGP that it's hard sometimes to argue with that criticism when it's applied to Williams. A good example to me is the first movement of the cello concerto or the corresponding movement of the viola concerto, where Williams lays out his material fairly quickly, gives the soloist a little room to ruminate on it, but Williams places what other composers might use for a climax comes so quickly that there isn't really anywhere else to go. That's not to disparage the orchestral scoring or the melodic material in either case, and Williams gets into and out of the climactic passage material skillfully, but it feels out of place and as far as I'm concerned the rest of the movement is wheel-spinning punctuated by occasional moments of interest. By contrast, the first movement of The Five Sacred Trees is a formal structure that works much better. It's a really artfully constructed build, from the solo bassoon opening through to the various passages for orchestra without soloist and that feature the soloist weaving in and out of the orchestral textures, and the climax of the movement comes naturally and comes at just the right place--it's related to the material that got worked over throughout the movement, and it still allows for the soloist to have a denoument, in literary terms, before the movement comes to a close.
This kind of criticism doesn't necessarily apply to his film work, where there are discrete cues that allow material to come and go as necessary and get developed in a different way over a longer time with shorter sections. If that makes any sense. If any of this makes any sense. I admittedly don't have the vocabulary to discuss music in the way I would like, even though I love it and have opinions about it that I can't always put into words well.
As an aside, if his longevity is being discussed, I think the bassoon, horn, and harp concertos stand a chance of lasting. I'm not fond of the cello concerto, and although I like the violin concerto I don't know that will take a huge place in the repertoire when violinists have so much else to choose from. I think it would be the same situation if he chose wrote a piano concerto.
Bayesian reacted to Jay in Danny Elfman's DOLORES CLAIBORNE - NEW! 2020 2CD Varese Deluxe Edition
Bayesian got a reaction from Edmilson in Hans Zimmer's NO TIME TO DIE (2020) - James Bond #25
And each one will get a breathless “exclusive” article on NME about the sheer joy of working with “cinema legend” Naked Emperor, err... HZ. None of us here expects any less.🙄
Bayesian reacted to The Five Tones in Favorite John Williams Chord or Chord Progression
At the risk of hitting spam level commentary on this thread, was already six years old when I found out about it, I'm finally adding my list of favs, in addition to what I've already posted.
First Seance from Family Plot - tritonal/altered dominant chord (pre-echo of CE3K, wordless chorus and all):
The Destruction of Krypton from Superman - Lydian mode and "super" major 7th chord with added/stacked tones (relating to the Main Title A theme):
More Lydian mode:
Far from Home from E.T. - major chord/minor mediant root for the "Call" motif (and all of the harmonic brilliance in "Far from Home," for that matter):
Water! from Temple of Doom - chromatic major triads over dissonant bass. Something very Lost in Space about it, but just a wonderfully resonant result and an orchestration/engineering highlight of ToD:
Father and Son from Jaws - D major secundal chords over a C bass like something in the deep, also foreshadows End Credits and narrative resolution:
The Funeral of Qui-Gon from The Phantom Menace - final sequence of chords finishing with a bitonal sound: A minor over D-flat major, literally the harmonic degree for Vader on top of the chord of rest that begins and ends all the light side themes. Almost as if Williams guessed or knew there would be another funeral two films later and an opportunity to resolve the theme unambiguously:
Luke and Leia from Return of the Jedi - the pitches of the upper chords shift back and forth by a semitone while the bass descends chromatically from the sixth degree down to the fourth (and a iv - ii half diminished - V - I cadence). IMO the most tragic, Tchaikovsky-esque sounding theme in the saga. Indeed, there is something incredibly sad about the twins' Force-assisted reunion and good-bye in The Last Jedi:
TreeSong - the central harmonic idea, a restive altered dominant chord that only resolves obliquely and ambiguously at the very end of the work:
The Mecha World from A.I. - one of the best moments in all JW for me, combining his beloved minor sixth chord with an abrupt modulation to two parallel Lydian/tritonal statements and back again, while still keeping the melody in the original key, and the harmonic rhythm is shaped by the minimalist-textured, metronomic, seven-beat groove:
Sean's Theme from Minority Report - mid-statement modulation upward by a minor third, an ancient trick to be sure, but its placement adds elegance here:
Opening Title from Catch Me If You Can - This is the ultimate. Those very jazzy, meticulously arranged and voiced, fourth-based chords moving in parallel in even dotted quarter notes against the 3/4 time signature (i.e. playing it "straight" in a jazz waltz). It sounds just like a bridge for this "tune," but in fact Williams is actually, unbelievably, quoting in variation the bridge melody in Across the Stars from Attack of the Clones, which he had just completed earlier that year (2002). Johnny Williams in the house, jazz-quoting himself and flying his own chameleon flag, appropriate to the film in question:
Here is the melody I'm referring to, and which is to my ears quite clearly quoted (intentionally or not? come on!). I'm sure someone in the history of JWFan has pointed this out before at least once (if not me already that I'm forgetting):
To come back one last time to the half-diminished 7th chord topic which was covered extensively in the exchanges above, I don't think we mentioned this example from the Prelude from Superman. The chord has the same function here as in Princess Leia / Love Theme from Superman / Asteroid Field / Han and Leia / Buckbeat's Flight, which is as the dominant chord. It's somehow Debussyian to my ears, and makes an extended tonal centre out of the half-dim chord, with lots of passing detail:
Bayesian reacted to DarthDementous in The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread
I can't overstate how much better the Trevorrow script is than what we got in Rise of Skywalker.
Someone here claimed it was 'stupid' and that's why it wasn't chosen, yet Rise of Skywalker is the absolute height of stupidity. The Trevorrow script, dubbed 'Episode 9: Duel of the Fates' is like the antithesis to what we got, if it was able to be produced with little creative compromise I believe it would've made this whole sequel trilogy worth it.
Just off the top of my head here's a quick comparison between the two scripts:
- The Emperor does not come back, he's just a hologram
- Hux isn't a joke of a man that gets killed instantly for his mind-numbingly stupid face-heel turn, he actually takes his place as Chancellor and helps lead the First Order whilst still having tension with Kylo Ren
- Kylo Ren doesn't get the cliche redemption end and there's no romantic relationship between him and Rey. This is a man that has doubled down on the dark side and unlike Vader it has left him devoid of the one thing that could save him - love.
- Actually draws from the good parts of the EU instead of some of the worst aspects (Dark Empire return of Palpatine, yet somehow doing it worse). We get to see the Kuat Shipyards, an Eclipse Star Destroyer, and the state of Coruscant under First Order occupation which with the way its described evokes the EU for me, a bit hard to explain why. Furthermore, even TCW gets some love by having it feature the planet of Mortis, a force well that naturally Kylo Ren would want to find and soak in the power of the force there.
- The script is driven by characters and their interactions and relationships with each other, not stitched together action scenes. There's no macguffin, let alone four, and it's all about Rey finally confronting Kylo Ren at the height of his power
- Rey doubts herself in realistic ways and actually demonstrates character and personality, she wants to live up to what it means to be a Jedi but she struggles with that and worries that its making her dangerous. It's probably the closest she's felt to being similar to Luke's character this entire trilogy.
- The legacy cast are not glorified cameos. I can't state how much better handled the OT cast is. While yes you do have the limitations of Carrie Fisher no longer being alive, Luke actually has a purpose in the story by visiting both Kylo Ren and Rey as a mentor. The interplay between Luke and Kylo would've been fantastic, as he attempts to convince him to turn away from this path but is shut out by Kylo, and mentoring Rey directly as he should've done in TLJ. Furthermore, Lando actually gets a realistic character arc, given the First Order rose from the Empire and took over everything he's feeling dispossessed and wondering if all of this was worth it. I understand completely where he's coming from, and that would've make his appearance near the end with his army of smugglers all the more satisfying ala Han Solo. Plus, R2, C3P0, and Chewie all get their hero moments and aren't just around as wandering comic relief.
- They acknowledge Finn is a stormtrooper fucking finally. Finn actually leads a stormtrooper uprising near the end of the movie and has interplay with a specific First Order trooper that he knew when he was apart of it. They had such an excellent concept established with TFA then proceeded to do nothing with it in the subsequent movies, and this would've been so satisfying and made Finn a character that should've been there.
- The sexual sterility of the ST would've been amended with Poe constantly trying to flirt with Rey, its one-sided and she even uses that to her advantage to manipulate him to get to safety but it would've added some much needed humanity to these movies that the OT had.
- We get to see both Rey and Kylo Ren train, particularly the latter would've been incredible to see under the guise of the enigmatic, impossibly ancient and cruelly wise Tor Vallum, described as being almost eldritch in appearance. He would've taught Kylo Ren how to drain the life force from others, which, a new force ability actually being taught instead of pulled out of thin air would've been a first for the ST. However, the best part of this would've been him fighting vision Vader and losing horribly, I can't imagine how amazing this scene would be from a visual and a character standpoint, there's a lot of subtext there and even something on a meta-level. Vader has always been something Kylo Ren has tried to rise beyond in power, and now he faces that directly.
- Although I think TLJ is a terrible, terrible movie, I have a lot of respect for this script for achieving what it does without shitting all over what came before and giving the audience whiplash. It's actually completely congruent with TLJ, Rey is still nobody, Kylo Ren is the Supreme Leader, Luke follows through with his promise to 'always be with' Kylo Ren', and the First Order has subjugated the galaxy - and this movie shows how with their shipyards and iron rule on Coruscant as well as other planets.
That's just some of the good parts of this script, I highly recommend you check out the two podcasts Rob Burnett did on THEBURNETT NETWORK youtube channel to hear more details about this tantalising script.
For all those doubting the legitimacy I honestly have to ask - how? The source is reputable, backed up by other reputable sources as well, and its too intricate and congruent with the state of both this hypothetical movie's production and the Rise of Skywalker's production (there's a lot of similar elements), I think it's only a matter of time before the entire script is out in the public and I for one can't wait to read it.
Bayesian reacted to Edmilson in Alexandre Desplat's BLACK WIDOW (2020)
About him being fired or not from R1, this is what is on Hollywood Reporter:
Here's Jon Broxton's review of Gia's score, and he is familiar with people working on the film score world:
I don't think I've ever heard someone saying Alex was fired, or that he even wrote something for the movie, despite rumours saying that Valerian includes some unused Rogue One material. But if anyone has any evidence, please come forward.
(reposting it because I idiotically posted it on one of TROS' threads )
Marco Beltrami and Blake Neely are the first that comes through my mind, these two have their own studios with their own set of composers.
Bayesian got a reaction from Will in JWFan EXCLUSIVE: The Rise of Skywalker Partial Cue List Revealed
Thank you, Jay! This is exciting stuff to read. It speaks strongly to what was a very different (and probably better) cut of the film that we're unlikely ever to see. A pity.