Holko

For anyone who might be interested: Adywan's Empire Revisited will finally be released today at 6PM GMT after 9 years of work!

This guy looks like such a movie, Star Wars, and film music fan.
 
No way he's not respecting JW!!

"Steven, you need a better composer than me for this picture"
 
"I know, but he just died!"

Editing Star Wars: The Last Jediii,
You, your team and your Johnson.

You guys don't get it, if we line up the 3 threads and hold them towards the sun, they will spell out the IP address for the Azkaban sessions!

"Steven, you need a better composer than me for this picture"
 
"I know, but he just died!"

You guys don't get it, if we line up the 3 threads and hold them towards the sun, they will spell out the IP address for the Azkaban sessions!

You guys don't get it, if we line up the 3 threads and hold them towards the sun, they will spell out the IP address for the Azkaban sessions!

"Steven, you need a better composer than me for this picture"
 
"I know, but he just died!"

"Steven, you need a better composer than me for this picture"
 
"I know, but he just died!"

"Steven, you need a better composer than me for this picture"
 
"I know, but he just died!"

"Steven, you need a better composer than me for this picture"
 
"I know, but he just died!"

"Steven, you need a better composer than me for this picture"
 
"I know, but he just died!"

This comparison of a complete score release being like releasing all of the film's dailies doesn't make sense. The complete score is a finished product from the perspective of the film. The bits they don't include on album are still as valid to be heard.
 
To answer the original question, The Terminal has annoyed me the most over the years. Repeated music, bizarre sequencing that doesn't even take you properly through Viktor's story, and the omission of a dramatically crucial cue.
 
RotS is also a worthy mention, if only due to the absolutely baffling omission of the funeral and transformation into Vader. What part of the listening experience and storytelling leaves that galaxy-changing part out?

I feel that a commercial release of a complete score should not just be a dump of raw materials in one place from which everyone should/can cobble up their own preferred version but a finished and well thought out and rounded experience of its own be the tracks separated or combined. It can be comprehensive but not detrimental to the flow and intentions of the music and the composer. What I am getting at is that you shouldn't have to tinker with it.
 
Like the JP Collection for example. Bless you Mike Matessino!  

The original albums already sound spectacular after being remastered last year (from the original album masters).
 
As long as any new release uses a fresh transfer of the original session masters, it will sound glorious.

I also want a "Mike Matessino" treatment.
 
All the score + the reconstruction of the original albums (re-edited from the original cues) + all the alt versions (all the versions of Lapti Nek by example) + the extras that where recorded for the 1997 SE, of course...

Here's the latest episode in my Hn / Tpt cover series !
9M3A & 9M3B from King Kong (which is probably my favorite score by JNH)
Those last cues are absolutely gorgeous
 
As usual I re-recorded all of the parts exactly as they were written ( that is a 8-horn section & 3 trumpets ) plus a bunch of other cool parts
 
 

As intended, but with inserts and film alternates in a bonus section. Essentially, if I can hear it in the film, it needs to be on the set somewhere (or re-creatable from it)
 
I think the question of combining cues should be left down to whether they were written to be combined.

Oh, I'd LOVE to hear all the alternates, clean endings and inserts, and I'd love to make an edit out of them, but on an official album release, where preferably MIke has already done that for me, I'd expect a listening experience which represents the movie well.

Some kind of hybrid of the Anthology and SE formatting. The longgggg tracks on the SE in ROTJ are a drag. Would much prefer The Emperor's Death was its own track, as presented on the Anthology, rather than 2 minutes hidden somewhere within 3x 12 minute tracks.
 
I think even MM regrets the way he sequenced that.

From what I hear thousands of people are moved by his music.
And from that criterion alone, his music should be cited next to Mozart's.
in fact I think many of his songs as compositions, surpass Mozart's genious!
The public can never go wrong in understanding greatness when they hear it!
 
@TheGreyPilgrim
Ok, seriously now, I think I understand what you're saying about how to judge music.
So, in that regard I take it you dismiss anything that has to do with statements  about "greatest someone" (eg. greatest painters, greatest architectures, greatest composers, greatest sculptors, greatest film directors etc.) since art cannot be measured by anything but a person's taste.
in essence, you dismiss the history of art, right? (since history of art  is written by those who excel in their field according to some given standards)
 
So I take it, that Kubrick and Hitchcock are not great directors. They just happened to be liked by some random persons since art cannot be measured, is that right?

I'm not trying to convince anyone that he is wrongly moved by something.
I'm trying to say that it's totally irrelevant if you're moved by a piece of art or not, when we have a discussion on what is great by that art's innate criteria.
 
Whether you like the Parthenon or not  doesn't matter at all, since it is a FACT that it is one of the greatest architectural monuments mankind has ever produced.
(for the record, I don't like the Parthenon. My personal tastes lie in renaissance and baroque).
 
This discussion has been misunderstood.
We're not talking about personal tastes, nor we're trying to diminish anyone's personal tastes.
The title of that article was about the greatest film composers, and that they are cream of the crop.
By who's standards?
If they said by their opinion or the article had a different title, I wouldn't have any objection to its contect.
In the end, I think it was a totally unfortunate choice of a title.

Recently, the question of how much of the CoS score was done by William Ross came up, and I said I'd do an analysis basen on what we have. Well here it is! There are also a lot of misconceptions thrown around about how much of the score is just retreading the first one, I hope my final numbers can put an end to that. Any thoughts and corrections on calculating errors, typos and unnoticed references are most welcome! I'm using the leaked PS and CoS sessions, so the main analysis will only take into account the final intended version of every cue so far known to be recorded for the movie, no unused/not recorded music from leaked sheets and no tracked cues. I will assume satisfactory knowledge of the movies and all major themes at least.
 
I've also decided to have a look at the OST and recommend the best cues not on it, and also to break down the major tracked cues appearing in the cue list, just for completion's sake - look for the Appendix at the end of this post.
 
The Analysis
 
My custom terminology
 
OM - Old Material, used in PS, similar tempo, similar orchestration - will reference PS session cues, slates and timecodes if relevant, won't if unnecessary (I don't have to point out where Nimbus 2000 is in Hedwig's Theme)
AM - Adapted Material, themes/specific cues used in PS or other movies, but adapted/orchestration and tempo changed significantly enough (like Nimbus 2000 in Cakes for Crabbe and Goyle, for example)
NM - New Material, thematic and melodic material first heard in CoS 
 
From Reel 3 onwards, I'll be using contractions for frequently reappearing themes with long and tedious names :
3NL - 3-Note Loop (original Philosopher's Stone motif here repurposed as a generic danger/mystery theme)
HWWO - Harry's Wondrous World Opening
N2 - Nimbus 2000
 
Reel 1
 
 
Reel 1
Old Material: 05:52
Adapted Material: 03:19
New Material: 06:07
Complete: 15:18
 
 
 
Reel 2
 
 
Reel 2
Old Material: 5:56
Adapted Material: 3:22
New Material: 8:40
 Complete: 17:58
 
 
Reel 3
 
 
Reel 3
Old Material: 2:49
Adapted Material: 3:51
New Material: 5:43
Complete: 12:23
 
Here I must also stop to say the movie must have been criminally overspotted, because a lot of good and new bits have been left out. Normally, lots of bits and pieces go missing, because the picture gets trimmed after the recording takes place, so the music goes with them, but here most scenes are intact and the music is taken out from under them, for example the beginning of Transformation Class (I guess they wanted the 3NL to be more sudden and dramatic in its appearance?) or the Whomping Willow and some Spiders material (probably tension and "jumpscare" reasons). This could potentially be forgiven had most of Reel 8 not been tracked - a lot of important action score, mysteries and big revelations to never see the light of day because JW had to spend his time writing minutes of unrecorded music, and writing and recording several more minutes that were not used. Kind of like The Arena vs. The Battle of Geonosis all over again!
 
Reel 4
 
 
Reel 4
Old Material: 3:40
Adapted Material: 1:54
New Material: 8:46
Complete: 14:20
 
Reel 5
 
 
Reel 5
Old Material: 2:05
Adapted Material: 4:57
New Material: 7:20
Complete: 14:22
 
Reel 6
 
 
Reel 6
Old Material: 2:40
Adapted Material: 1:27
New Material: 3:31
Complete: 7:38
 
Reel 7
 
 
Reel 7
Old Material: 4:56
Adapted Material: 1:54
New Material: 9:58
Complete: 16:48
 
Reel 8
 
 
Reel 8
Old Material: 00:00
Adapted Material: 2:16
New Material: 9:35
Complete: 11:51
 
Reel 9
 
 
Reel 9
Old Material: 4:13
Adapted Material: 3:24
New Material: 4:14
Complete: 11:51
 
Conclusions
 
Standout NM cues: All Dobby material, Magical Household, all Lockhart material, all Flying Car material, all Fawkes material, Writing on the Wall, 
                                 Transformation Class, Petrified Colin, Dueling Club, The Spiders Pt.2, Ginny Gets Snatched, Reel 8
Standout OM cues: Escape from the Dursleys, Letters from Hogwarts, Harry meets Lucius, Introducing Colin / Mail, Flying Pixies, Dumbledore and Harry,
                                 Reunion of Friends
 
Total Numbers:
 
Complete: 2:02:29
Old Material: 32:11 (26.27%)
Adapted Material: 26:24 (21.55%)
New Material: 63:54 (52.17%)
 
Discrepancies between the final numbers and the cue list numbers can come down to podium changes, or the fact that I couldn't be bothered to count the seconds of silence on the beginning of every sessions track or in the middle of some cues. The final percentages would not be impacted in any significant way.
 
So on an expanded 2-disc release, counting with 78 min. max per disc, there would be at least 36:40 left for bonus material, probably a few minutes more, since the aforementioned silences and properly joined tracks would make the score shorter than my estimate. I believe we have no idea how many alternates exist/were recorded/were even written, if not many, this could probably house the Children's Suite (24:11 if we count Harry's Wondrous World as the finale, 18:50 if we don't). We'll 100% get HWW as the HP1 Credits, so on HP2 it'll either be the Credits or the Suite (and thus the CD2) finale, if the suite or even the HWW is on there, of course.
 
Appendices
 
Appendix A
Reel 10 (Additional material, I don't consider these part of the score)
 
 
Appendix B
The tracked cues - what do they consist of? (An editing guide)
 
 
Appendix C
A complete intended score editing guide
 
This includes every single sessions cue (even ones removed from the movie) and tracked cues.
 
Note: this is simply a guide to my preferred way of listening to the score, not an attempt at a complete film edit recreation with all edited out bits and pieces tracked down; that exceeds even my patiance and tolerance levels, it's work for another year - and probably another user. (A Remixed and Restored trilogy á la Jurassic Park based on the Black Friday John Williams Harry Potter Collection, perhaps? :P)
 
I consider two types of edits: hard and soft. A hard edit means two cues were written to be joined/overlapped, but recorded separately. Listening to them separate worsens the listening experience because you get a buildup to an unsatisfying climax, a few seconds of silence, then a sudden out-of-nowhere climax and continuation. Temple of Doom, for example, is filled with these types of transitions. A soft edit just means one cue is winding down/a note is held, while the other starts or winds up without there being a gap between these. Not joining these cues does not necessarily worsen the listening experience. 
 
Hard edits I always recreate, this means I had to split a few tracked cues in half in Reel 8 to avoid overstuffed, non-focused 15 minute tracks. Soft ones I'm more liberal with - if it makes sense musically and thematically as one track, I'll even join cues separated by seconds of silence in the movie. 
 
Since there are way more soft edits than hard ones, I'll only indicate hard edits (+ and +h instead of +s and +h).
 
The final track names are my own creations, sometimes I'd reference the edit I've listened to for years, sometimes an original session name since I like it better, sometimes it's completely made up.
 
 
 
Appendix D
So what is on the OST?
Personal comments incoming, feel free to ignore them if you happen to like inexplicably random and non-chronological presentations!
 
 
OST
Old Material: 22:26 (31.83%)
Adapted Material: 6:44 (9.55%)
New Material: 41:19 (58.62%)
Complete: 70:29
 
Appendix E
Which unreleased cues can I look forward to most in a future expansion if I don't touch bootlegs and session leaks?
(Personal favourites, recommendations)
 
 
Yes, I've got way too much free time.