Pellaeon

Yeah, I thought about that. (It’s a thinker.) There were some bold choices in that script.
 
They could have showed the audience the stakes—Ed and Kelly (and the audience) find out exactly how the future is changed, and that makes it less of a conundrum. Bolder choice to make them stick to their resolve without having to know.
 
They could have pulled a Voyage Home and not worry about the damned timeline. (“How do we know he didn't invent the thing?”)
 
They could have softened the impact by mentioning that, there being infinite timelines, the married Gordon would have lived out his life in his timeline.
 
They could have given the rescued Gordon a moment of melancholy reflection at the end. But it’s more impactful that he just isn’t there emotionally.

Yeah, for years any suggestion that Edwards was fired and replaced with Gilroy as director of Rogue One (same MO as with Solo and TRoS) was severely scowled upon as some sort of anti-Disney hysterical conspiracy theory. Now the open secret is a selling point. Interesting point.

Isn’t it amazing? Amazon wanted a Game of Thrones of its very own, and they’re actually modeling it after the later seasons of GoT by plowing ahead without source material. Sheer fucking hubris!

Isn’t it amazing? Amazon wanted a Game of Thrones of its very own, and they’re actually modeling it after the later seasons of GoT by plowing ahead without source material. Sheer fucking hubris!

Yeah, for years any suggestion that Edwards was fired and replaced with Gilroy as director of Rogue One (same MO as with Solo and TRoS) was severely scowled upon as some sort of anti-Disney hysterical conspiracy theory. Now the open secret is a selling point. Interesting point.

Isn't it kinda weird when Tony Gilroy is being pushed so hard as showrunner and writer for this series when his involvement in saving Rogue One was a little on the DL at the time? Like they tried keeping it a bit of a secret before, but assume you know this fact anyway as a way of getting butts in seats for this show.

Interesting parallel between Rogue One (2016) and Discovery, Season 1 (2017):
Rebellion/Starfleet not idealistic Dead-faced protagonist super not idealistic Entire movie/season of gritty, cynical badassery Protagonist suddenly decides to lecture Rebellion/Starfleet on how they should be idealistic after all

Well for example, here is Forest Whitaker acting the shit out of a scene, and Jyn Erso’s emotionless response.
 
 
No “yes, and…” here!

Interesting parallel between Rogue One (2016) and Discovery, Season 1 (2017):
Rebellion/Starfleet not idealistic Dead-faced protagonist super not idealistic Entire movie/season of gritty, cynical badassery Protagonist suddenly decides to lecture Rebellion/Starfleet on how they should be idealistic after all

I have a theory that Season 1 was meant to be TOS-like, Season 2 TNG-like, and Season 3 DS9-like.
 
Season 1 was the most standalone and exploration-based.
 
Season 2, more character-driven; female security officer leaves the show; epic two-parter revealing the Borg…?
 
Season 3, even more character-driven and serialized, lots of politics/war involving known peoples, and almost no exploration.

I preferred ROTS to TLJ. Maybe TLJ is a better movie, I don't know. But I do know that ROTS is a better Star Wars movie.
 
I know Rian Johnson was trying to shake up the Star Wars formula, be subversive, etc. And I remember thinking at the time, that's fine in theory, but the penultimate chapter in a nine-chapter saga probably isn't the best time to do it. And that such a shake up would be better suited for one of the spin-off films or a TV series.
 
But now that I've read these early, glowing reviews of the Andor series, I'm not even sure about that.  The thing is, at what point do you mess with the Star Wars formula so much that it's no longer Star Wars? What are the first five things that come to mind that define Star Wars, and how many can you take away and it still be Star Wars?
 
Or James Bond. I mean, you could make a "realistic" James Bond movie about what the life of a spy is really all about....endless hours of tedium, developing sources, sitting in dingy safe houses, driving a computer instead of a Lamborghini, etc...but who would want to see that in a Bond flick?  If you take away the gadgets, the women, the larger than life villains, the exotic locales,  luxury cars, the Vodka Martinis, and the seemingly limitless budget for a civil servant, is it really still James Bond?  The series has certainly swung the pendulum between the farcical (i.e some of the Moore & Brosnan outings) and the more "gritty" (the Craig & Dalton films) and everything in between (Connery).  But never have we seen a "realistic" James Bond. You can only mess with what makes 007 Bond so much or he's no longer Bond. You could still have a great film, but I don't think it would be a great Bond film. 
 
So what's a Star Wars movie without Jedi, and lightsabres, JW's music (or music like it), and the Force and all the other trappings of Star Wars?  Is it still really Star Wars? If Disney wants a realistic, gritty TV show about what being in a rebellion is like, populated with morally "grey" Rebels, why not make that show? Of course, it's because they have to put Star Wars name on it to get people to watch, and they have to fill x number of hours of Star Wars content on Disney+ to retain and bring in new subscribers. The IP must be exploited and Disney must justify the cost they paid for it. But at what point do we lose what makes Star Wars special? Answer: we've already lost it.
 
I get it. They're doing the same thing with Marvel. You can only follow the same formula so many times before the story just becomes diluted and, well...formulaic. So they shake it up. Only then, you lose what made it the escapist fantasy people wanted to watch in the first place. It's Catch-22. To me, the only winning move here is not to play...i.e. give Star Wars a rest for a while, and when you do have a story to tell, tell it in the cinema where you can make it a special event.
 
Of course, those are days gone by, and there's no going back to that, and we all know why. So I'm sure Andor will be a fine TV series, maybe the best so far. But will really be Star Wars?

Would love for them to revive the idea of this as a trilogy, but first they would need to rehabilitate the first movie, maybe a new cut? Bring back Lord/Miller? Make it easier to see? Nix all the worst fanservice, like the cringey “Solo” name origin story?

The U.S. paperback edition of LotR has an intro by Tolkien specifically refuting it as allegory in general, and of WW2 in specific. It’s really interesting and quite intellectually. In fact he goes into what would have happened in his story if it were a WW2 allegory.

Maybe we can call this forum “Tolkien Central & Peripheral.”

Maybe we can call this forum “Tolkien Central & Peripheral.”

Would love for them to revive the idea of this as a trilogy, but first they would need to rehabilitate the first movie, maybe a new cut? Bring back Lord/Miller? Make it easier to see? Nix all the worst fanservice, like the cringey “Solo” name origin story?

Maybe we can call this forum “Tolkien Central & Peripheral.”

Started listening to the X-Wing series (via the new audiobooks) for the first time, they are pretty good so far, Corran Horn is a neat character.

The U.S. paperback edition of LotR has an intro by Tolkien specifically refuting it as allegory in general, and of WW2 in specific. It’s really interesting and quite intellectually. In fact he goes into what would have happened in his story if it were a WW2 allegory.

I've been making way way through this score this week in pieces during commutes and man, I'm discovering so much more about it than I even realized was in here.
 
I feel like for a long time I only really noticed the Han A and B themes, Enfys Nest theme, and old JW themes from the old movies for the most part
 
Now I hear Chewie's theme, Secrets, L337's theme, the gang theme, Qi'Ra's theme, etc all over the score. Not a lot of time goes by without one of the themes popping up, and they are always different renditions every time.

This score is a real gem.  Boy, it's a shame Disney screwed up the marketing of the film and we aren't already on our way to finishing up a trilogy with this cast and composer by now

As we steamroll through the content of the Disney Era of Star Wars, I am really missing the contributions of Ben Burtt.  
 
There are a couple threads with some good articles linked, but the short story is after TFA, Lucasfilm phased him out and just use his catalogue to drag-n-drop, leading to just a muddy mess of sound, as Burtt describes in this article.
 
Have any sound design examples from Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, Rogue One, Solo, Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker, or Obi-Wan Kenobi stood out to you?  I can't think of any.  This forum dissected a bit of sound design from The Prequels, but in retrospect, they have a scintillating clarity (especially TPM) that is lacking in the current product.  
 
It's not just the design, but the mixing and editing.  I crank up the Battle of Naboo, and when the Queen reclaims her Throne room, you hear every blaster bolt (Royal and Federation) echo around you, you hear the door slam slut with absolute clarity.  Even the punches, kicks, and body blows during the lightsaber duels sound painful and dangerous.  (Although I guess lightsabers now aren't that dangerous since it's pretty standard to survive being run through with one).  The tension in Jango's metal cable as Obi dangles from it, and his "uggh" from front to rear surrounds as he falls towards camera.  These examples aren't really innovative; they're just effective use of balance and clarity for emotional effect.
 
I really enjoyed his contribution to Star Trek '09... the ship's nautical ping and the radio chatter, as well as the "pew - ping" of the phaser battle aboard Nero's Romulan ship.  The absence of sound as they begin their free fall jump down the drill.
 
I know he's got his detractors, and it's always a competition with score, but I'm simply saying I miss hearing sounds that make me say "Whoah".  Hasn't happened in a while, and I'm afraid I am going to miss Burtt on Indy 5.
 
I think it's really sad the way they gently showed him the door.

i have no idea
 
i love out of context comments by actors forced to be marketers while not allowed to say anything at all! they're so helpful
 
(not that they cannot be dumb as bricks like everybody else).
 
oh wow that is just like toxic fandom but by actors
 
it's just an unimportant show. it's barely inside the tolkien world, and it's also unimportant as a mainstram thing.
 
it's the constant THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER that turns into stupidity, and also sometimes pedestals for the source material (the actual material) that are also a disservice to it
 
...
 
Overall, I'm amused that only now I start seeing people concerned about clothing, weaponry, weapons design or civil and military architecture in fantasy and historical things, after being told for ages that it's fiction and that it doesn't matter. next we'll talk about martial arts maybe.

You have not seen what I have seen.

The Force Awakens.
6m56,6m56R,6m56R Ext - "Preparing for the Mission"
[6m56B],6m56BRv1 (+New Ending) - "Kylo's Rage"
6m56C - "To Lightspeed"
 
Among the TFA cues there are several that have the same number 6M56. These cues were written for the film sequence, beginning with the Resistance team's preparation for departure, and ending when Han, Finn and Chewy infiltrate the base. Apparently the filmmakers weren't sure of the order of these scenes (and they did move them around all the time), so these slots were not numbered.

Here I have made "partial" mockups of only the first three cues. They (6m56, 6m56B, and 6m56C) were written for an early editing in spring 2015. JW also wrote 6m56D Ice Landing and 6m56E Ren In Cockpit in early August (after the first cues were recorded), and William Ross wrote 6m56F Hey! in October.

1.1. 6m56 Preparing for the Mission (written no later than March 19)
The cue is for the scene of the Resistance team preparing for takeoff and the last dialogue between Han and Leia.
The dialogue was originally longer: a couple of lines were cut from final movie, remaining in the novelizations (and the sync hint confirms it):

But more importantly, there was a deleted further scene where Leia gives Finn the lightsaber (according to the leaked shot list), Han and Co go aboard, and the Falcon takes off.
---
Interestingly, this is the first written cue featuring the March of the Resistance. The video starts in the middle of the previous cue (6m55R, I just like that buildup). 6m56 starts at 0:37. There is also one cut bar at 0:36, but I was lazy to reconstruct it.


1.2. 6m56R Preparing for the Mission (no later than June 11)
There are changes in the second half of the cue. The beginning of the dialogue now has Leia's theme added to Han and Leia's theme. Only the shot of Falcon taking off is left from the last part of the scene: JW wrote an "optional" ending to it, alternatively suggesting to just hold the last chord until then.


2.1. 6m56B [Kylo's Rage!] (probably March/April)
       6m56R Ext (no later than June 19; recorded)
6m56B was originally a short cue, played when Kylo discovers that Rey has escaped. That said, the scene of Rey's escape itself was apparently without music.
However, the scene was later split: the Rey's escape was placed before the Resistance scene, but Kylo comes to the empty chair after that scene. So JW decided to "join" 6m56B cue to 6m56R (since they weren't recorded yet), while removing the first 4 bars of the original cue. And this is how the cue was recorded (and leaked). JW also added a low string crescendo at the end of the cue.


2.2. 6m56BRv1 Kylo's Rage! (no later than October 10)
         6m56BRv1 New Ending (no later than October 12)
The story of this cue was continued when filmmakers decided to place the scene with Kylo before the Resistance scene as well, and added (or asked to write music for it) a short scene with the "charging" of the weapon on the planet. So William Ross wrote an addition to the old cue (and made slight changes to the old material), and seems to have made more than one version of it, but only the first is available.
Later, JW himself decided to rewrite the last bars of the cue, writing a "new ending", which was recorded. This video includes both endings.

Later, 1m2A was written based on this cue, which is heard at the beginning of the film.

3. 6m56C To Lightspeed (probably March/April; fixed on June 15)
The numbering isn't chronological here, as 6m56D Ice Landing must play earlier. Perhaps the Falcon landing scene wasn't ready yet, so JW skipped it.
The main part of this cue is for the deleted scene where the X-wings are commanded to activate lightspeed. The scene was officially released, but JW worked with another edit where there was no footage of the X-wings taking off, but there was dialogue with Leia, who was told that the Falcon had landed (according to the novelization and the hint in the sketch).
Nevertheless, the first bars of the cue are used in the film instead of the opening of 6m58 The Bombing Run. Also the first half is heard in the released deleted scene, but it isn't synced properly. 
The cue only lasts 52 seconds, but there's a lot going on in it!

 
Bonus: in "unfixed" version of this cue the underscoring of the planet's wide shot was a little different: instead of quiet flute chords, flute trills were used, accompanied by "something like a high wind machine". Also further string pizzicatos are missing. 
 

ragoz350 · 6M56C - Old fragment

Yeah, I thought about that. (It’s a thinker.) There were some bold choices in that script.
 
They could have showed the audience the stakes—Ed and Kelly (and the audience) find out exactly how the future is changed, and that makes it less of a conundrum. Bolder choice to make them stick to their resolve without having to know.
 
They could have pulled a Voyage Home and not worry about the damned timeline. (“How do we know he didn't invent the thing?”)
 
They could have softened the impact by mentioning that, there being infinite timelines, the married Gordon would have lived out his life in his timeline.
 
They could have given the rescued Gordon a moment of melancholy reflection at the end. But it’s more impactful that he just isn’t there emotionally.