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The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread


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Hmm...8:26 PM Eastern time and still no trailer up at atasteforthetheatrical.com. Any thoughts?

Doesn't matter anymore but the website had the numbers 828 which led everyone to assume (correctly) that it'd be released then.

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I think the trailer's okay, but it honestly is just like any other trailer for an action movie these days.

Ya but this is Batman!

All I can say is that I'm actually interested in this movie and thats more I can say for Batman Begins.

I like Batman. I tried to watch one scene of Batman Begins, though, and it just looked like a boring action movie, so I never even finished it. And I didn't think Burton's Batman was that great either. And I hated Batman Returns.

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I like Batman. I tried to watch one scene of Batman Begins, though, and it just looked like a boring action movie, so I never even finished it. And I didn't think Burton's Batman was that great either. And I hated Batman Returns.

:) Batman Begins was excellent. I was skeptical at first, back when I didn't really look into movies. But after I saw it, I was astonished.

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I like Batman. I tried to watch one scene of Batman Begins, though, and it just looked like a boring action movie, so I never even finished it. And I didn't think Burton's Batman was that great either. And I hated Batman Returns.

:) Batman Begins was excellent. I was skeptical at first, back when I didn't really look into movies. But after I saw it, I was astonished.

Hmmm, like I said, I only saw part of that one scene, so that opinion was not set in stone.

So what Batman movies do you actually like?

I don't like any. I never said I liked Batman movies, I said I liked Batman. But I've never seen the really really old ones, I might like those.

The only superhero movie I saw and liked was the new Spidermans.

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I like Batman. I tried to watch one scene of Batman Begins, though, and it just looked like a boring action movie, so I never even finished it. And I didn't think Burton's Batman was that great either. And I hated Batman Returns.

:lol: Batman Begins was excellent. I was skeptical at first, back when I didn't really look into movies. But after I saw it, I was astonished.

Hmmm, like I said, I only saw part of that one scene, so that opinion was not set in stone.

So what Batman movies do you actually like?

I don't like any. I never said I liked Batman movies, I said I liked Batman. But I've never seen the really really old ones, I might like those.

The only superhero movie I saw and liked was the new Spidermans.

If you really like Spiderman. maybe you really shouldn't watch Batman Begins.

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You would think that Zimmer and Howard together would equal goodness, but it doesn't. BB is a great movie, but the score absolutely SUCKS. It works in the film decent enough, but the score alone is worth nothing.

The score was very good, better than the usual Zimmer you all hate, much better.

To indy4 - If you've seen The Dark Knight trailer, that gives you a little sample of the Batman Begins score,

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Okay, all concerns I had with the Joker for TDK are completely and totally annihilated. The look is somewhat different, but this is clearly 100% Joker. (I loved the "There's some fight in you. I like that." "Then you're gonna love me." bit). This trailer has me so pumped up for this now. This film is gonna kick butt.

Now, as far as BB goes, yes you must see it.

The general problem with its score is that I think it went too far in the opposite direction from Elfman's scores. It went too minimalistic (the low mix in film didn't help things) and too electronic--not that there can't be any. It would be preferable to have full orchestra with electronics accenting or giving extra rhythm, instead of having full orchestra plus synth orchestra backing plus electronics. Danny Elfman has done a pretty good job with that recently, as has Don Davis (who I think would be a very interesting possibility if they weren't going with Zimmer and Howard). I think it's also taking itself too seriously most of the time. The film doesn't take itself too seriously--there is still humor, Batman is still fighting bad guys and driving around in an amazing vehicle, so loosen up! I would like a better balance between the gravity and the thrills, if you see what I'm saying. There are good elements in the score, to be sure. I think the BB theme (the one that features in Molossus) is very good (although I would like theme that goes up melodically for the big moments), and I also really like the family/love theme. There's also an interesting motif that comes up twice--once after the temple fight and once when you see Bruce open the armoir before going to Arkham. I'm not sure what it is supposed to be, but it's interesting.

EDIT: In that shot of the crowd running and screaming, is it just me or is there something green spreading through the street? Will we see laughing gas? My theory is that if they were going to do that, it would have some kind of connection to Scarecrow's developments from the previous film. I dunno, just a thought.

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I think the trailer's okay, but it honestly is just like any other trailer for an action movie these days.

It was the same with the Batman Begins trailers. They even put me off the movie.

When I finally saw it on DVD, I truly regretted not seeing it in the cinema.

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Begins is probably the best Bat-film thus far. You would be a fool not to check it out. The score works a lot better in the film than it does on the album, which is just not very good on its own. Even though they're two different beasts, I prefer Elfman's music far over Zimmer's (and JNH).

Batman Returns is (IMO) great too, but it works much better as a Burton film than a Batman film.

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The album leaves off almost all of the best parts of the score. The "I'm Batman" moment (whose bright idea was it to leave in the chaotic music and leave out the thematic payoff to the cue?!), the cue where Bruce goes to the armoir (again, including only the less interesting "Happy Birthday" underscore), and most of the best material from the climax (starting when Batman breaks through the monorail window).

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I wish! I love electric guitars in film scores.

And Elfman hasn't done anything really fresh in a very long time. He doesn't seem to be too adept at current action/drama. The new BB don't exist in a comic book universe, and thus Elfman's sound from the first two films would not be appropriate.

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What exactly do you mean by "current action/drama"?

A direct copy of the style of the first two films, no, probably not, but Elfman today? It's possible. Elfman's no idiot; he's not going to just slap on B89--or even Spider-Man. But I think, again, that he showed a lot of competency in the meshing of electronics with the orchestra he has done in the first two Spider-Man films is encouraging. I think he could do something that would be relevant to this take on Batman while still offering something interesting. All of this not to say that I necessarily think Elfman should do it when he's already done B89 and Returns, but it wouldn't be so much of a stretch, I think.

I still say Howard himself, or Don Davis, with the freedom to write more interesting music while remaining appropriate to the film would be wonderful to hear. I don't blame it all on Zimmer, though; the guy can write interesting music when he wants to and is allowed to, and I'm sure that the negative qualities of the Begins score were largely due to Nolan's decisions. Here's hoping that Nolan allows the music to breathe more as the films "escalate."

And on a slightly different note, I wonder how the Joker will be handled musically, with regard to theme/motif (or lack thereof) and style/orchestration. I tell you what, man, when I see that shot of Joker firing the bazooka, I'm hearing crazy music. Crazy as in psycho circus music. Yes, it's been done. And I think it's still just as relevant and appropos as ever.

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What exactly do you mean by "current action/drama"?

A direct copy of the style of the first two films, no, probably not, but Elfman today? It's possible. Elfman's no idiot; he's not going to just slap on B89--or even Spider-Man. But I think, again, that he showed a lot of competency in the meshing of electronics with the orchestra he has done in the first two Spider-Man films is encouraging. I think he could do something that would be relevant to this take on Batman while still offering something interesting. All of this not to say that I necessarily think Elfman should do it when he's already done B89 and Returns, but it wouldn't be so much of a stretch, I think.

IMO, Elfman has been stagnant for a while, and I can't think of a single really solid score he's written for a film set NOW, in what is more or less this reality. Good Will Hunting was probably the last one I actually liked. He did something different with The Kingdom.....but that was entirely uninteresting.

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I don't think it's really so much the style of his directing as the choices he made in the direction for the music. In Begins I see the opportunity for a great score.

I may be misreading here, but it seems like there's this impression that less comic booky/more realistic/darker (debatable--Burton was pretty dark, only it had more whimsical and fantastic elements) automatically means less interesting/involved/enhancing scoring. That just boggles my mind. There is no reason a well written and thought out, full orchestral score that actually enhances the film would be inappropriate for a film like this. There are good ideas in the Begins score, but there are a lot of missed opportunities. Look at the bit where Scarecrow gasses Batman, for instance. Instead of the weird SFX-for-music approach, I think something like the section around 0:47 of "Blindsided" from Unbreakable, for instance, would be more musically interesting and effective at the same time. Interestingly enough, once Batman gets into the alley, I really like the cue.

There is plenty of room for a score that enhances and complements the film, that is exciting when appropriate, dark when appropriate, or light when appropriate. The film itself doesn't pigeon-hole itself into a "must be contemporary, must be serious" box, and neither should the score.

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Funny you should mention Unbreakable, because I think James Newton Howard doing the score on his own would be better than a partnership with Zimmer. But, I still think the score works well in the film.

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There are definitely elements that work. One cue that has grown on me over time is the scoring of the docks scene. I actually like how it has that chaotic feel at first, and then when Falcone is pulled out of the car, you have that great thematic payoff. Very nicely done, and rather effective. In that case, my real gripe is that generic electronic thing going on in those shots of Batman fighting the thugs. I would prefer some kind of orchestral avant-garde type stuff if that was the way they were going to go--in fact, that would've been really cool.

The action scenes are the biggest problem, IMO. As a Zimmer action track heavy on rhythm and all that, I definitely enjoy Molossus, for instance, but in the context of the film, it leaves me wanting more. It doesn't do much to complement the action or make it go from being a very good scene to an amazing scene. There are some good moments (the end of the Monorail is well done in wrapping up the cue both in action and theme), but it seems like a lot of it is bland music with flashes and chunks of good stuff, as opposed to a cohesive, excellent score.

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Actually, I have always been interested in hearing a score for Batman in the style of the early detective stories.

Even the modern Begins has some elements of Film Noir in it. Wouldn't it be great if we got a somewhat jazzy/orchestral score? Not jazz as in In The Mood...but some really dark shady type stuff. Mix it together with orchestral music like On The Waterfront, and I think the score would be great!!!

This would work for both Burton's vision as well as Nolan's, in my opinion. What do you all think about that?

BTW, I loved Begins. And Ledger's turn as The Joker is probably what I'm most excited for this summer. Other than a certain fedora-wearing fellow.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Prologue looks great, though I hope the music is merely a temp track (I hope Zimmer will do something better, even though he will probably just mimic that).

I was very disappointed with BB score. I find it completely uninteresting and bland. I believe JNH alone would have done it much better, I am not an enthusiast of Zimmer's action scores, maybe except PotC:AWE.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

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Oscar-winning composer Hans Zimmer was struggling to find the right music to represent the Joker in “The Dark Knight,” the new Batman movie scheduled for release this summer.

Zimmer, who wrote the scores for “The Lion King,” “Gladiator” and more than 100 other films, had already composed a two-note signature for the fiendish character, played by the late Heath Ledger.

But he wanted to expand that sound to symbolize the Joker’s penchant for anarchy.

“I’ve been sitting here all night trying to find out what else to do with those two notes,” Zimmer said during an interview last month at his Santa Monica, California, studio.

Zimmer, who collaborated on the score with James Newton Howard, said Ledger’s death from an accidental drug overdose in January wouldn’t change his musical approach to the Joker.

The composer said the best tribute would be an accurate reflection of Ledger’s portrayal.

“The worst thing I can do is stray from that course and not be rigorous about his performance,” the tall, balding composer said in a German accent that reflects his native country.

Two notes? Come on

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Beaten only by this enlightening bit of information:

Zimmer, who collaborated on the score with James Newton Howard, said Ledger’s death from an accidental drug overdose in January wouldn’t change his musical approach to the Joker.
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Oscar-winning composer Hans Zimmer was struggling to find the right music to represent the Joker in “The Dark Knight,” the new Batman movie scheduled for release this summer.

Zimmer, who wrote the scores for “The Lion King,” “Gladiator” and more than 100 other films, had already composed a two-note signature for the fiendish character, played by the late Heath Ledger.

But he wanted to expand that sound to symbolize the Joker’s penchant for anarchy.

“I’ve been sitting here all night trying to find out what else to do with those two notes,” Zimmer said during an interview last month at his Santa Monica, California, studio.

Zimmer, who collaborated on the score with James Newton Howard, said Ledger’s death from an accidental drug overdose in January wouldn’t change his musical approach to the Joker.

The composer said the best tribute would be an accurate reflection of Ledger’s portrayal.

“The worst thing I can do is stray from that course and not be rigorous about his performance,” the tall, balding composer said in a German accent that reflects his native country.

Two notes? Come on

Sounds like something Spielberg might of once said to Williams.

...

Okay. You can slap me.

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I'm thinking that what this really means is that he's found an interval to start with, and he's working hard to figure out where to go with it. I find it hard to believe that after the two-note mission motif from the first film (of which I enjoyed the performance of as Bruce runs toward the ship, I must admit), he would really

And the comment that Ledger's death wouldn't affect his musical treatment of the character is intriguing. I've said it before and I'll say it again: When I see Joker shooting off a bazooka, I'm hearing demented circus music.

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I'm thinking that what this really means is that he's found an interval to start with, and he's working hard to figure out where to go with it. I find it hard to believe that after the two-note mission motif from the first film (of which I enjoyed the performance of as Bruce runs toward the ship, I must admit), he would really

I would certainly hope so. Giving such an outlandish and iconic character nothing but two notes is shameful. If Batman can get a suitably heroic theme (which was in fact in Begins), why can't The Joker get his own fully developed theme?

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I just can't see Zimmer being that far off base in this regard. Sure, he's made lots of decisions I don't care for, but I'm sure he's smarter than that. And even if I don't put it on the same level as Elfman's theme, the BB theme is definitely a solid and fitting theme.

Let us not forget that a recent piece of sterling journalism seemed to inform us that Randy Kerber would be writing music for KOTCS, assisted by John Williams, writer of the Star Wars theme song.

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