indy4 155 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I was thinking awhile ago about my least favorite Williams scores, and really how quite astonishing it is that I can still get quite a bit out of his "worst" material. I'd give him a well earned 7.5 for his lifetime's work thus far, at least all of it that I've heard. You can include non-film works, anything you've heard by JW. He has created such a wonderful library of different styles, sounds, and compositions, and he's left me a more-than-satisfied listener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 This is such a Josh poll! Initially I'm thinking around an 8.5, but I'll vote later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Why is there no choice for 0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 You are upset about the omission of 0!? What makes me angry is the omission of quarter increments! This poll is as useful as a wet piece of toilet paper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 You are upset about the omission of 0!? What makes me angry is the omission of quarter increments! This poll is as useful as a wet piece of toilet paper!I agree completely. This poll does not live up to the high standards we've come to expect at this site. We deserve better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 10Don't you think that should be reserved for cream of the crop composers like Jerry Goldsmith and Howard Shore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah but that stupid indy4 not only forgot to put a 0, he also forgot to put an 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah but that stupid indy4 not only forgot to put a 0, he also forgot to put an 11.Well, you're certainly entitled to think that way if you like your film music safe and pedestrian. Otherwise, the highest rating should be reserved for composers who are willing to challenge convention and push the boundaries of Hollywood musical diction as allowed for by the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 This is such a Josh poll! Initially I'm thinking around an 8.5, but I'll vote later.I was not watching who was the author of that poll, but I also thought was "Yeah, Josh strikes again!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah but that stupid indy4 not only forgot to put a 0, he also forgot to put an 11.Well, you're certainly entitled to think that way if you like your film music safe and pedestrian. Otherwise, the highest rating should be reserved for composers who are willing to challenge convention and push the boundaries of Hollywood musical diction as allowed for by the film.I tend to judge on quality. JW = quality and lots of it. Unmatched amounts of consistent quality. If he's safe and pedestrian then sign me up for more of the good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I am not referring to you specifically, Quint, but I always find it amusing when Alan manages to spark debates with people because they fail to see the satire. If that made no sense, then that is probably because I stayed up far too long after bedtime.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah but that stupid indy4 not only forgot to put a 0, he also forgot to put an 11.Well, you're certainly entitled to think that way if you like your film music safe and pedestrian. Otherwise, the highest rating should be reserved for composers who are willing to challenge convention and push the boundaries of Hollywood musical diction as allowed for by the film.I tend to judge on quality. JW = quality and lots of it. Unmatched amounts of consistent quality. If he's safe and pedestrian then sign me up for more of the good stuff.His "quality" has been matched many times over by some of his peers and predecessors, but if you find such joy in his particular brand of quality, then you are certainly welcome to it.I am not referring to you specifically, Quint, but I always find it amusing when Alan sparks debates with people because they fail to see the satire. If that made no sense, then that is probably because I stayed up far too long after bedtime....That has happened, but in this particular case, I'm actually playing a legitimate game of devil's advocate in hopes of making this thread more interesting than it might otherwise be. Even some of Williams's most ardent fans have acknowledged he is not much of an innovator -- even if he does have a musical voice to call his own. How one ranks Williams in the pantheon of great film composers ultimately has to have a lot to do with how much one values art that seeks to defy, confound, and reshape expectations without abandoning its core purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Sorry, indy4, but this IS kinda stupid.JW wrote what? 100+ scores? Some are good, some are not so good. And then there are some spectacular masterpieces.So what's the average rating for most? Probably 7 or 8.But then, I'll give him 10 anyway, because JW is the composer whose works I admire most. IMO there was never one who was better. And most likely, there never will be one, either (but if so, he/she will get a 10 too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I did suspect that Alan was baiting, but I wasn't certain so I responded with a good'ol honest answer. I played it safe, much like JW has post Schindler's List. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I did suspect that Alan was baiting, but I wasn't certain so I responded with a good'ol honest answer. I played it safe, much like JW has post Schindler's List.My opening salvo with the Goldsmith and Shore bit was baiting, but then I thought it might be interesting to genuinely explore this and see what might happen if we attacked Williams at his soft underbelly, if you like -- his essential conventionality, which is what I refer to when I say "pedestrian." (In just about any other facet of musicality, he is as exceptional as they come.) And a corollary to that is his approach to film scoring -- which is generally to react as an audience member might react to seeing the film for the first time. Sometimes that leads to music that is arguably too literal and obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 My opening salvo with the Goldsmith and Shore bit was baiting, but then I thought it might be interesting to genuinely explore this and see what might happen if we attacked Williams at his soft underbelly, if you like -- his essential conventionality, which is what I refer to when I say "pedestrian." (In just about any other facet of musicality, he is as exceptional as they come.) And a corollary to that is his approach to film scoring -- which is generally to react as an audience member might react to seeing the film for the first time. Sometimes that leads to music that is arguably too literal and obvious.Didn't you read the other thread? Williams is the most versatile, successful and manna from heaven, anyway...saying mean stuff won't change that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 6.5 for lack of overall thematic unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,061 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Nobody is perfect, so I'll give him a 9.5.His impact in the world of music and success are undeniable. To me there is no one better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I'll give him a 9, just for the harp stuff in 'jaws 2' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah but that stupid indy4 not only forgot to put a 0, he also forgot to put an 11.Well, you're certainly entitled to think that way if you like your film music safe and pedestrian. Otherwise, the highest rating should be reserved for composers who are willing to challenge convention and push the boundaries of Hollywood musical diction as allowed for by the film.Ah yes, THOSE composers. Yes, those composers. We all know them. Takemitsu - 10. Corigliano - 10. John Williams - 9.... I don't think so.John Williams - 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Sorry, indy4, but this IS kinda stupid.You're just upset because he thought of it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego 21 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 The man did Star Wars, that alone is worth giving him a 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah but that stupid indy4 not only forgot to put a 0, he also forgot to put an 11.Well, you're certainly entitled to think that way if you like your film music safe and pedestrian. Otherwise, the highest rating should be reserved for composers who are willing to challenge convention and push the boundaries of Hollywood musical diction as allowed for by the film.Ah yes, THOSE composers. Yes, those composers. We all know them. Takemitsu - 10. Corigliano - 10. John Williams - 9.... I don't think so.John Williams - 10I rate your output 4 - must do better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desplat13 1 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 6.5 for lack of overall thematic unity.Um, overall? Lifetime? Do you prefer James Horner's overall thematic unity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Yeah but that stupid indy4 not only forgot to put a 0, he also forgot to put an 11.Well, you're certainly entitled to think that way if you like your film music safe and pedestrian. Otherwise, the highest rating should be reserved for composers who are willing to challenge convention and push the boundaries of Hollywood musical diction as allowed for by the film.Ah yes, THOSE composers. Yes, those composers. We all know them. Takemitsu - 10. Corigliano - 10. John Williams - 9.... I don't think so.John Williams - 10I rate your output 4 - must do better!"Surely you can do bettah!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,716 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 10 for technical capability.7 for overall enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Sorry, indy4, but this IS kinda stupid.You're just upset because he thought of it first.Um, no.10 for technical capability.7 for overall enjoyment.So it would be a 8.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Sorry, indy4, but this IS kinda stupid.You're just upset because he thought of it first.Um, no.You don't have the right to call a poll stupid. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Sorry, indy4, but this IS kinda stupid.You're just upset because he thought of it first.Um, no.You don't have the right to call a poll stupid. Seriously.OK. Then YOU are stupid. Satisfied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I went with a 9. His vast output of truly great scores more than make up for his smaller (but significant) number of less-memorable efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 There are some scores in the 70 and 80 that I give 3 stars and less.From the 90s onward, every JW score gets 4, 4.5, or 5 stars from me (except maybe 1 or 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 OK. Then YOU are stupid. Satisfied?Was that necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Hoyt 13 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Who always votes for the lowest? No more secret ballots!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitch 57 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 All ballots are private unless the Constitution gets amended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I didn't a-know it was a-broken! Baboom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,624 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Again, this kind of "rate this", or "rate that" poll comes down to the final arbiter: personal opinion. I am unable to convey (especially in a few sentences) what J.W.'s music means to me. It is, simply, the most exciting, most beautiful music I have ever had the privilege to listen to. Yes, there is stuff that he has written that I think is below par ("Hook", "Schindler's List", and "...Last Crusade", "Eps. I-III" come to mind), conversly, there is less "commercial" stuff that I adore ("The Accidental Tourist", "Images", "The Missouri Breaks", "Jane Eyre", "Mnority Report"). In the end, though, I give the man a resounding 10 (as I would Jerry Goldsmith, and Alex North) because COLLECTIVELY his music means more to me than any individual score. How can one measure a friendship, or a marriage, if it is based on individual moments? No, it has to be taken as a whole, and, as a whole, J.W.'s music gets top marks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Again, this kind of "rate this", or "rate that" poll comes down to the final arbiter: personal opinion. I am unable to convey (especially in a few sentences) what J.W.'s music means to me. It is, simply, the most exciting, most beautiful music I have ever had the privilege to listen to. Yes, there is stuff that he has written that I think is below par ("Hook", "Schindler's List", and "...Last Crusade", "Eps. I-III" come to mind), conversly, there is less "commercial" stuff that I adore ("The Accidental Tourist", "Images", "The Missouri Breaks", "Jane Eyre", "Mnority Report"). In the end, though, I give the man a resounding 10 (as I would Jerry Goldsmith, and Alex North) because COLLECTIVELY his music means more to me than any individual score. How can one measure a friendship, or a marriage, if it is based on individual moments? No, it has to be taken as a whole, and, as a whole, J.W.'s music gets top marks!Well said!This is exactly why I have him 10 stars too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 10. Call me a fanboy, I honestly think he's the only one living who deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 his average has dropped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Wow. The 3 idiots who gave him 0.5 stars are really bringing him down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,442 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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