Williams' best third act

[Jay 37,380]

This is an off shoot from the "Last score you listened to" thread, where I said that The Empire Strikes Back's third act, from Carbon Freeze until the end credits, was simply amazing and possibly Williams finest third act. In that 40ish minutes of music, you get the thrilling mix of the love theme and Vader's theme for Han's freezing, fun Yoda's Theme variations for Luke and gang zipping around Cloud City, that extremely heartbreaking rendition of the love theme when the Slave I takes off, all the used and unused music for Luke and Vader's lightsaber duels, the thrilling string runs for the Millenium Falcon's escape from Cloud City which is interspersed with great renditions of the Droids theme and an amazing rendition of the Force Theme when Leia realized they need to turn back, all capped off by what could be the best Finale cue of Williams career, followed by what could be the best End Credits music he ever assembled. Whew!

So if you were to ask me today, I'd say ESB... mostly because I just listened to it yesterday. Ask me tomorrow, and I might say Hook

I broke the poll into 2 groups just because there were so many scores to pick from, and his style changed from the earlier ones to the latter

SO: What is your favorite third act of scoring done by John Williams... and why?

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

uf... too many words...

[Quintus 5,399]

Saw this poll comin' a mile off

[crocodile 8,020]

CEOTTK. No doubt about that.

As for the latter options I have to go with AOTC. Yes, i know it isn't even scored properly and there is a lot of butchering going on in the movie. But no matter what you think of the score as a whole the last two big cues from the end of the album (three with conveyor belt) are really good. They are as close to SW as the prequels get, I think.

Karol

[Andy 4,148]

I simply cannot bring myself to vote on the 70s and 80s poll. How can you not choose E.T., but then if you did, you'd snub Temple of Doom, which isn't as classic as Star Wars? I just can't do it.

90s... I guess Phantom Menace. Maybe. Or Hook, perhaps. Crap. I dunno.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The 80s one was hard, the second not so much. I went for ESB and ROTS.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,557]

Saw this poll comin' a mile off

NO YOU DIDN'T!

[Faleel 5,368]

easy! TOD and ROTS

[Datameister 2,044]

Yeah, I definitely can't pick. ESB is strongly tempting - I've just been listening to it as well, and it is one amazing third act. But then again, the rest of the score is amazing, too, so it's not that much of a surprise. E.T. is...well, its reputation precedes it. It's basically an unbeatable finale. Packs an even more intense emotional punch than ESB, but I don't know if I'd necessarily call it better. ESB is more..."interesting" in some ways. Crap, too difficult.

Oddly enough, the later scores are an even harder choice, though not because they all raise the bar. Hook and JP are very, very strong contenders. HPSS is tempting for no other reason than the gorgeous "Leaving Hogwarts." AOTC's final moments before the credits are better than TPM's and ROTS's, with the rescored Imperial March leading into the love theme and then into the classic credits. But ROTS has some good final battle music, even if it is a little bit...all over the place. And KOTCS actually has a very nice third act, I think. More interesting than the bulk of the score, with the tense action music followed by the noble, soaring music for the aliens' departure and the more tender material (including a great unreleased cue) leading into the credits. So if we were voting based on quality relative to the rest of the score, I'd pick KOTCS.

[indy4 155]

I put E.T. and RotS. Although ESB was tempting for the first.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

ESB and ROTS. The first was a very hard choice to make though and I would not have any problem subbing in a few others instead of ESB. But as of today, its ESB

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hmmm...Jaws and Star Wars are hard to beat!

[Red 75]

This is... difficult. But I appreciate a poll that actually makes me think and weigh the options. Well done.

I'd have to go with Close Encounters and Hook for right now. I've always thought CE3K had the best finale of Williams' career, and I think Hook pretty much speaks for itself (not to mention features possibly the best action music JW's ever done).

[Quintus 5,399]

Start the Raiders one at Desert Chase and I mght pick it.

[Jay 37,380]

Yea I almost didn't even include Raiders in the poll at all, since while the entire score is amazing, the final cues are not among its strongest. I prefer the middle section, from The Map Room through The Desert Chase

Same with Superman - I get very bored by the ending cues, I only really like from the Prologue through The Fortress Of Solitude

[John Crichton 4]

As much as I love LC I tend to find the last act a bit of a letdown musically. All the best stuff comes before it.

[Jay 37,380]

Yup - another one I almost didn't even include at all. Figured someone would complain if I didn't, though

[Wojo 2,453]

As much as I love LC I tend to find the last act a bit of a letdown musically. All the best stuff comes before it.

I disagree. LC's final moments excels in its subtlety. The restrained grandeur when Indy realizes the illusion of the bridge, and when Indy takes the true grail back to his father, which fortunately was released on Concord's set. The finale to LC is not as bombastic as Raiders or TOD, but then again, neither is the film.

Sorry, LC will always have a special spot in my heart as it's my first Indy score. That's why, while I'm unloading OST's of scores I now have as complete releases, I can't part with TLC OST (or Raiders DCC, because it's the DCC).

[Jacob 0]

Star Wars

As great and as emotionally impacting as Empire's third act is, The Battle of Yavin edges it out if only because it flows better -- it isn't as segmented.

ESB cuts back and forth between Luke and the others. SW only has the one conflict to focus on and maintains a higher energy throughout.

Also, love the incredible action variations on the Force theme, not to mention the inestimable Throne Room march.

Revenge of the Sith

The Battle of the Heroes duel may not be up to par for many, but to me it really hits the spot (especially with the unreleased portions) as does the rest of the finale.

Particularly the cue leading right into the credits, aptly titled on the album A New Hope.

Such a wonderful medley of Leia's theme, Luke's theme, and then the Force theme on solo trumpet (I think).

It might just be my third favorite Star Wars finale after SW and ESB (although my favorite cue would probably be Light of the Force from RotJ).

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Same with Superman - I get very bored by the ending cues, I only really like from the Prologue through The Fortress Of Solitude

BULLSHIT!

[Jay 37,380]

Its true. I recently tried to give the entire score another chance, actually, and still only really like that opening stretch of cues and The Flying Sequence. Everything else starts to bore me.

[Trent B 337]

Hmmm tough to decide...but ultimately I chose, Star Wars(ANH) and Hook.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Empire and Hook, although strictly the 3rd act of Empire should begin with "Lando's Palace", not "Carbon Freeze".

Act 1: Opening Titles - Escape in the Millennium Falcon

Act 2: The Asteroid Field - City in the Clouds

Act 3: Lando's Palace - End Title

Same with Superman - I get very bored by the ending cues, I only really like from the Prologue through The Fortress Of Solitude

BULLSHIT!

Not at all. While I disagree that the second half of Superman is "boring", it isn't in the same league as the material leading up to and including Fortress of Solitude.

[Jay 37,380]

Hmmm, I smell a new poll brewing - best Williams' opening acts

[crocodile 8,020]

That would be Superman indeed.

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

E.T./Hook

But still, I mean, what the hell. I only like those BEST. From the modern era, only Hook, Jurassic Park, The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith really register with me in terms of big third acts and Phantom is an editorial disaster as-is. I would probably rank the modern third acts: 1. Hook, 2. Jurassic Park, 3. Revenge of the Sith. I enjoy Sith's action cues and all that stuff, but have you guys listened to T-Rex Rescue and the helicopter finale lately? I don't know, I currently have to give the old Rex the edge! All the 70s and 80s stuff is completely phenomenal. I could never rank them.

"Fight With Tie Fighters"

[Dole 17]

ESB is brilliant but ROTJ the first thing that popped into my mind when I read the poll title so that's what I voted for. Not only a fine third act for a score, but a fine ending to a third act to a trilogy of scores.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

ET and Harry Potter though I could have said Jaws and Jurassic Park, nothing from Star Wars, I could have put Superman in there as it's better than the others. Im not surprised that so many here voted for Revenge of the Sith, but it is mostly Star Wars music and not original, and what is isn't among John's best.

[King Mark 3,631]

E.T. and Revenge of the Sith

Temple of Doom,CE3K and Star Wars are close

TESB is the best overall but the best part is the first third of the score ( Hoth music+ Asteroid Field)...but then again the last third is pretty amazing too.

For Harry Potter PS the best parts are in the beginning/middle of the score (up to the Quidditch Match)

Jurassic Park loses points from me for the final third of the score (I still am not to fond of the action cues near the end)

Again Superman first half is much better than the second half of the score

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yes. Harry Potter is strongest in its first act.

[Jacob 0]

Im not surprised that so many here voted for Revenge of the Sith, but it is mostly Star Wars music and not original, and what is isn't among John's best.

You always say that about Revenge of the Sith and it's always just as head scratching.

Granted, the end credits feature Leia's theme and the album does have the Throne Room concert arrangement tacked onto the end (it's not used in the film).

Aside from that, what is it in Sith that borrows so much more from Star Wars than the other sequels?

Or is that all you're thinking of?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It borrows more heavily from Empire and Phantom Menace than the original, aside from the album end credit.

[Jacob 0]

True, there is the unfortunate tracked music from the other prequels and the bit from The Clash of Lightsabers used in the duel.

But I don't think that's what Joey is referring to, since he said it's "mostly Star Wars music" (i.e. Episode IV).

[King Mark 3,631]

Im not surprised that so many here voted for Revenge of the Sith, but it is mostly Star Wars music and not original, and what is isn't among John's best.

You always say that about Revenge of the Sith and it's always just as head scratching.

Granted, the end credits feature Leia's theme and the album does have the Throne Room concert arrangement tacked onto the end (it's not used in the film).

Aside from that, what is it in Sith that borrows so much more from Star Wars than the other sequels?

Or is that all you're thinking of?

He listened to the OST once in 2005 and that's all he remembers of it

[Jacob 0]

*chortle*

[Ollie 1,059]

The best moments in ROTS are the usage of the Force theme.

Anyhoo E.T. is powerful but Jaws is being ignored so I'm going to through my support there. As for the next section, Jurassic Park gets my vote.

[Jacob 0]

The best moments in ROTS are the usage of the Force theme.

As are most of the best moments in the whole saga for that matter.

[Wycket 36]

I went against the norm and gave it to Superman. While I don't think its better than the opening act (what is?), I'll always have a soft spot for it and since its one of the driving reasons I got into movie music, I couldn't resist the temptation. It was hard not to pick any of the Star Wars films, but Supes will always take it for me.

As for the more recent, it was an easy decision to pick Hook, thought I almost The Lost World.

[Datameister 2,044]

You always say that about Revenge of the Sith and it's always just as head scratching.

Yep. It's pretty perplexing...Williams did make weird choices for the end credits, and he did quote ESB and TPM in the final duel...but I fail to see how ROTS is mostly borrowed from Star Wars. It's an extremely different score. Frankly, I wonder if Joey has listened to anything on the OST except the end credits, let alone the complete score.

[Faleel 5,368]

You always say that about Revenge of the Sith and it's always just as head scratching.

Yep. It's pretty perplexing...Williams did make weird choices for the end credits, and he did quote ESB and TPM in the final duel...but I fail to see how ROTS is mostly borrowed from Star Wars. It's an extremely different score. Frankly, I wonder if Joey has listened to anything on the OST except the end credits, let alone the complete score.

the first track of ROTS is awesome! just about as good as the end credits, heck the whole score rocks

[Jeff 10]

I voted for ESB and AOTC. Both decisions were difficult, because most of my favorite JW tracks of all time are end credits or finales, including (in no particular order):

- Leaving Hogwarts (SS)

- End Credits (E.T. - I also love the chase and farewell)

- End Credits (TLC)

- T-Rex Rescue and Finale (Jurassic Park)

- The album version of Birth of the Twins through the End Credits (ROTS)

However, I chose ESB because virtually every note from the light saber duel till the end is absolutely thrilling, and I adore the love theme leading into the End Credits. This is probably my favorite JW score and favorite 3rd act overall.

The ending of AOTC kind of mirrors ESB, which is probably why I like it so much. It's slightly behind ESB but it's still stellar in my opinion. ROTS would be a close second - Battle of the Heroes is brilliant, period.

Scores like JP, SS, and ROTLA are among my favorites overall, but not for their third acts (even though they have excellent finales). ROTJ and ANH are probably in my top 5 favorite 3rd acts.

P.S. Why do you think it is that the Star Wars movies have such good 3rd acts? I would say it is simply because action movies tend to build till the final act which gives the composer better material to work with, but shouldn't that be true with most movies?