Which JW album has the best recording quality?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I'm not sure if my pick is up there with the best as I'm not the biggest audiophile (altho I like to think I'm reasonably discerning about quality).

Anyway, mine is Far and Away. I don't know, but there is just something about the way that album sounds which I find irresistable and can't quite put into words as yet. It just sounds....organic to me.

[A24 4,338]

Sounds like a typical Shawn Murphy recording to me. In terms of recording sound, Far And Away, Always and Jurassic Park sound pretty similar. They sound somewhat Boston Poppy but with added treble, which Thor defines as "silky". I'm not a big fan of them.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

This is a very interesting question, and one which, I hope will turn into a long-running thread. In fact, I was going to create a thread around the various recording studios that have been home to film scores, so I guess that they could combine. The easy response to this, would be to say that whatever sounds clearest, is the best one. This, however, is oversimplifying by way too much.

Recording studios, and recording techniques have changed considerably over the years, and we are all running to catch up. For the 60s stuff, "Heidi" has a wonderful "open" quality, and a dymanism that is hard to beat, even on more recent releases. IMO, it's right up there with the marvellous "Days Of Future Passed".

One needs to fast-forward to "Star Wars" to find a recording comparable to "Heidi". Sure, "Jaws" has its fans, but it really is as dull as dish water, as far as sound is concerned (having said that, however, "Earthquake" sounds fresh, and not at all unlike "TTI", which was recorded just a month, or two, later, and, to my ears, sounds like "Jaws". Perhaps, as it was a "jazz" flavoured score, it had more of an effort put into it, to make it sound good).

"Star Wars" certainly had a lot of(for the time)money spent on it, and it shows. It still sounds great, but a little too "dry" for my taste. Not so "CE3K". This really is a very (for the time) bright recording, and the virtual anthesis of "SW".

"ROTLA" still sounds fresh as a daisy (sorry for the mixed metaphor), while the stuff recorded in the USA in the early 80s is very bright (especially "TOD") even with, what I assume, is 24/96 remastering. To me, much of J.W.s recent stuff (especially the stuff recorded at Abbey Road) has a "wet" quality, which may be due to the fact that Abbey Road has B. and W. monitors.

Anyway, all this cannot possibly put into a few sentences the history of recorded motion picture scores, but I hope it will "kick-start" what I hope will be an interested thread.

[Quintus 5,399]

E.T.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

Why?

[Ollie 1,059]

I think the general consensus will be E.T.

The HP scores sound fine to my ears as does Geisha.

Why?

Bruce Botnick.

[Quintus 5,399]

Why?

Because every single instrument is catered for, by Brucie.

20+ years and it still blows me away, everytime. It's the only JW score which has that effect on me, from a recording quality pov.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

Fair enough. I love his work with The Doors, but what, when it comes to film scoring, does B.B. have that John Neal, or Shawn Murphy, or Eric Tomlinson, or Ted Keep, or Sonny Burke not have?

[Jay 37,369]

Easily The Phantom Menace (Ultimate Edition). The sound is completely flawless and perfect. Dunno why Clones and Sith didn't sound as good.

[Datameister 2,044]

E.T. indeed sounds phenomenal. I also think that the raw quality of Star Wars and Raiders and other scores from that period has a certain appeal to it. TOD sounds pretty unique in terms of recording quality, and I've grown to like that weird, bright edge it has. In more recent years...HP:SS sounded great to me, although in a brighter and wetter way. I do like the sound of Jurassic Park, even though I don't think it would be appropriate to all scores, and even the bright sound in the prequels, which Alex rightfully compared to that of the Boston Pops, works in those scores for me.

What I do NOT care for is the sound of TLC. Something about it just rubs me the wrong way. Also, the original Star Wars trilogy could sound a lot better than it does on the SE releases.

EDIT: I must confess, Jay, I've never heard much of a difference between TPM and the others. If I had to pick a favorite of the three, yes, I would say TPM has the best sound quality, but the margin never seemed very big to me.

[Jay 37,369]

OMG the Clones OST is so full of hiss! I dunno what happened there!

[John Crichton 4]

Easily The Phantom Menace (Ultimate Edition). The sound is completely flawless and perfect. Dunno why Clones and Sith didn't sound as good.

Because the TPM UE was taken directly from the final film edit masters and slapped onto disc, so Shawn Murphy didn't get a chance to put it through his "album mix" mud machine.

The winner: ET. Bruce Botnick. There is no comparison.

[Quintus 5,399]

I can't remember where exactly (probably some dvd doc), but I remember a film score recording engineer talking about how much better brass sounds when recorded on analogue; compared to the newer digital stuff. I'd agree with that sentiment 100%

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I think probably E.T. Jaws 2 sounds good, and the ESB LP sounds amazing, it's a shame that's never completely translated to CD. Then again, I love the sound of the Rhino Superman so the FSM version must be unbelievable.

[Quintus 5,399]

There can be a tendency to over-engineer scores too. As much as I love it; I think ID4 suffers from from being over-produced and I reckon it'd be a little more respected had the recording enginneer/s demonstrated some restraint and been a bit more picky about which parts of the orchestra be given top billing.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

I love the sound of the Rhino Superman so the FSM version must be unbelievable.

Yes...and no. The strings are far more forward in the Blue Box, and they really are front-and-centre, when they make their appearence at the beginning of "The Planet Krypton". The Blue Box, however, is well over 30 years old, and while the remastering does a bang-up job of revealing more infomation, it also hilights the limitations of the original recording. This is a thing common to "older" recordings. Likewise, depending on what sort of hi-fi you have, you are more likely to be dissapointed by the newer remasters of favourite older scores, if your hi-fi is able to transfer more infomation. More is not necessarily better. By all means, however, buy The Blue Box, simply for a truly magnificent score, lovingly reconstructed, and beautifully played.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Fair enough. I love his work with The Doors, but what, when it comes to film scoring, does B.B. have that John Neal, or Shawn Murphy, or Eric Tomlinson, or Ted Keep, or Sonny Burke not have?

Just examine the work he did with Jerry Goldsmith over a period of 25+ years.

There are so many stunningly sounding recordings there.

[crocodile 8,017]

I love the sound of the Rhino Superman so the FSM version must be unbelievable.

Yes...and no. The strings are far more forward in the Blue Box, and they really are front-and-centre, when they make their appearence at the beginning of "The Planet Krypton". The Blue Box, however, is well over 30 years old, and while the remastering does a bang-up job of revealing more infomation, it also hilights the limitations of the original recording. This is a thing common to "older" recordings. Likewise, depending on what sort of hi-fi you have, you are more likely to be dissapointed by the newer remasters of favourite older scores, if your hi-fi is able to transfer more infomation. More is not necessarily better. By all means, however, buy The Blue Box, simply for a truly magnificent score, lovingly reconstructed, and beautifully played.

The question is however: do I need The Blue Box when I already own Rhino version and the first score from the series is all I really need?

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

Fair enough. I love his work with The Doors, but what, when it comes to film scoring, does B.B. have that John Neal, or Shawn Murphy, or Eric Tomlinson, or Ted Keep, or Sonny Burke not have?

In the old days, John Neal did some spectacular jobs (Jaws 2, STAR TREK TMP, for example), but Williams other stand-by's? Murphy recorded some all-time lows (A. I. and MINORITY REPORT doesn't sound much better), Eric Tomlinson's muffled shoebox style isn't much of a competition (to my ears) and Burke i only know via EARTHQUAKE, which sounds fair enough. There also was Armin Steiner, who was middle-of-the-road, as far as i remember.

[ETMusic 1]

I'm surprised no one mentioned 'Angela's Ashes' as a contender (assuming you either disregard the narrator OR have the Oscar promo version). Personally, it's a toss-up between E.T. and Angela's Ashes.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

KOTCS.

[A24 4,338]

E.T. (MCAD-31073) was recorded analog and digitally at the same time (split feed). The master was digital too. It's a kind of a mystery which version was used for the CD. The album sound somewhat brittle and this might be due to the early digital technigue. It's a good musical recording but not an audiophile one (audiophilic?).

All three releases have a different sound.

Alex

[Taikomochi 1,136]

The HP scores sound fine to my ears as does Geisha.

Really? I don't know crap about recording and such, but most of the tracks on Geisha begin and end with this ringing that fades out at the beginning and then fades in at the end. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but I'm sure it wasn't intentional and just bothers the hell out of me.

[indy4 155]

The prequels.

[Wojo 2,453]

The question is however: do I need The Blue Box when I already own Rhino version and the first score from the series is all I really need?

Karol

The Blue Box has one crap edit in The Kryptonquake.

[Trent B 337]

Despite the horribly edited material I always though The Phantom Menace so called "Ultimate Edition" had really great sound to it. In fact it is much better than the OST counter-part.

Edit: I see Jay mentioned it all ready.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The prequels.

The TPM UE sounds great, AOTC sounds hissy, ROTS sounds rather average.

[Trent B 337]

The prequels.

The TPM UE sounds great, AOTC sounds hissy, ROTS sounds rather average.

Indeed if you also compare the material for AOTC in the games to the OST material, the ones in the games sound quite a bit better, no hissing at all.

Even for ROTS some of the game material sounds better than the OST.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

E.T.

Which one? I'm not a big fan of the 20th anniversary one, but the 1996 one is pretty good.

Sounds like a typical Shawn Murphy recording to me. In terms of recording sound, Far And Away, Always and Jurassic Park sound pretty similar. They sound somewhat Boston Poppy but with added treble, which Thor defines as "silky". I'm not a big fan of them.

You are right that Jurassic Park has the a similar quality, but I don't think I'd compare to them to the Boston Pops sound, because I'm not a big fan of the BPO sound myself in general.

[Jay 37,369]

The prequels.

The TPM UE sounds great, AOTC sounds hissy, ROTS sounds rather average.

Exactly.

Indeed if you also compare the material for AOTC in the games to the OST material, the ones in the games sound quite a bit better, no hissing at all.

Even for ROTS some of the game material sounds better than the OST.

Yea, exactly. The promo that leaked before the OST was in stores had no hiss; Then all of a sudden I bought the OST and its all hissy. I don't get it!

[Wojo 2,453]

Be careful. If that OST is too hissy, it might open a secret chamber or something.

[Henry B 50]

The thing with the UE is that despite the basically excellent sound quality, it's full of EQing, peak limiting, volume imbalances... it's not just the edits that drag it down.

I think Return of the Jedi, as heard on the Anthology, is perfect.

[Demondm810 399]

I agree with Quint. E.T. Is ridiculously crisp and full for being as old as it is. I can think of no other Williams release that sounds as good. The sound of Raiders is also incredibly well mixed and separated (the non Concord release). Can't think of the label that did the expanded right now.

[Jay 37,369]

DCC

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The thing with the UE is that despite the basically excellent sound quality, it's full of EQing, peak limiting, volume imbalances... it's not just the edits that drag it down.

I think Return of the Jedi, as heard on the Anthology, is perfect.

Really? ROTJ has always sounded quite shit to me in all its releases. :S

[Jay 37,369]

Yup, it's been the worst-sounding original trilogy score in any set of releases

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

E.T. is the standard for scores of its era. But I still dig the old-sounding recordings like Superman, Star Wars, Raiders, Jaws etc. It lends something to the music. Not explainable, just something to be experienced I guess.

KOTCS is honestly a phenomenal presentation in terms of modern scores. I think I'd rank it above TPM, even though that one is very good.

Also, completely agree that AOTC is a hissy, muted-sounding mess. A.I. also has serious problems. Many cues sound like there's a monsoon occurring just outside of the studio and someone left the door open. Was that intentional? There's something wrong with the timpani in ROTS to my ears. I think Trent fixed this on his version.

[Demondm810 399]

Ah yes DCC. Thanks Jay. That recording is still fantastic.

[John Crichton 4]

KOTCS is honestly a phenomenal presentation in terms of modern scores. I think I'd rank it above TPM, even though that one is very good.

Indy 4 and PoA are the best modern Murphys.

[Faleel 5,355]

KOTCS is honestly a phenomenal presentation in terms of modern scores. I think I'd rank it above TPM, even though that one is very good.

had KOTCS been recorded in London i would agree with you

[Henry B 50]

The thing with the UE is that despite the basically excellent sound quality, it's full of EQing, peak limiting, volume imbalances... it's not just the edits that drag it down.

I think Return of the Jedi, as heard on the Anthology, is perfect.

Really? ROTJ has always sounded quite shit to me in all its releases. :S

Give Anthology Disc 3 a listen and see if you still feel this way.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think the original German RSO album issue of ROTJ sounds even better than the Anthology.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

Fair enough. I love his work with The Doors, but what, when it comes to film scoring, does B.B. have that John Neal, or Shawn Murphy, or Eric Tomlinson, or Ted Keep, or Sonny Burke not have?

Transparency without sacrificing reverb. Listen to his Goldsmith recordings.

E.T.

Which one? I'm not a big fan of the 20th anniversary one, but the 1996 one is pretty good.

Was Botnick involved with the actual film tracks? I know he did the album, which I haven't listened to in years; I remember it sounded good but could do with some cleaning up. As far as the film tracks go, the 96 release sounds fine, but Murphy's 20th anniversary remix comes from the late part of his crap years.

I remember reading that Hook was used as a demo CD. I also love the sound on Summon the Heroes (great ambience) and the woodwinds on Jurassic Park. Plus the remastered CE3K sounds awesome. Compare it to the SW SE, it's hard to believe they were recorded the same year.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The thing with the UE is that despite the basically excellent sound quality, it's full of EQing, peak limiting, volume imbalances... it's not just the edits that drag it down.

I think Return of the Jedi, as heard on the Anthology, is perfect.

Really? ROTJ has always sounded quite shit to me in all its releases. :S

Give Anthology Disc 3 a listen and see if you still feel this way.

I just did, and it still sounds like the orchestra is underwater altho quite a bit better than the SE.

[Quintus 5,399]

Always sounded great to me. The main titles in particular sound at their most epic, on that disc.

[publicist 4,643]

I just did, and it still sounds like the orchestra is underwater altho quite a bit better than the SE.

If only the sound of Gerhardt's ROTJ recording could be swapped onto the Williams' one.

[A24 4,338]

I know he did the album, which I haven't listened to in years; I remember it sounded good but could do with some cleaning up.

E.T. The Special Edition (1996) sounds more natural than the original release (probably a better analog-to-digital conversion), if you don't mind the extra umph on the bass drum. Musically, it tells an entirely different story.

Alex

[A24 4,338]

And E.T. The Anniversary Edition is the least colored, most authentic sounding orchestra recording but it's also the least exciting one.(especially after first hearing the other versions)

Alex

[King Mark 3,631]

Nobody mention The Missouri Breaks?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

TPM sounds really good.