Star Trek: The Next Generation: The Ron Jones Project

[Andy 4,147]

^ Truth.

[Ollie 1,059]

If anyone is interested, someone at FSM has posted custom covers for each score with Lukas' blessings.

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=72929&forumID=1&archive=0

[Wojo 2,453]

I was about to post that the links don't work, but that was because I right-clicked on them before. They're purty.

Though part of me liked the idea of using either the autographed sheet for a cover, and then use the actors on each disc as a way to subtly indicate the disc breakdown independent of the episodes. A transparency effect might work, and might be too "busy."

[tharpdevenport 4]

I have not downloaded nor have I looked for this set. I am certainly on the fence about it though. I am going through the samples on the FSM website again to try to make up my mind.

Jones' site has plenty of samples from TNG (and other projects) in full cues, up for listening:

http://www.RonJonesProductions.com

See I disagree. By downloading, you are keeping the fire burning. Downloading a pirated film to watch a scene or two and then going to see it in theaters is not okay. You're still illegally obtaining something.

The things about that was the studios intentions and why such laws were passed: because people whould not BUY the product. I don't have the law infont of me, but I would hope it made such clearer intentions.

If you buy it, and delete what ever you got, it's like it never happened, and the studio profitted. That you got a priated edition is pointless.

If it were really about destroying piracy, then rest assured laws would be passed, and servers would be shut down, and just like China, we'd be blocked from certain sites. That's a slippery slope I'd rather not climb. Ever.

But on the other side of the coin, just to be fair, if downloads were not hurting the sales (as some members at FSM claim), the studios and music industries would be fighting (one would assume) just as hard to REMOVE or heavily amend the laws; why have a law for something they claim the studios already know don't hurt their sales?

Yes, folks -- you have just entered The Twilight Zone.

[Wojo 2,453]

What time is it kids?

[tharpdevenport 4]

What time is it kids?

And we went 88 MPH to get there...

On a humorous relate note:

If stealing the music really, really does hurt the labels and would cause them to stop, does that mean if NO ONE EVER AGAIN buys, say, a Britany Spears song, and they ALL illegally download it, that she'll, like ... GO AWAY?* ;-)

* = pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Complaining about Britney Spears songs? What time is it now, 1999?

[Wojo 2,453]

Britney Spears doesn't have to sell her songs to remain in the public consciousness. She hasn't released an album of "new" material since 2008, and she's still around.

If you want to warp the soundtrack specialty label situation to somehow include Britney Spears in the equation, you have to throw in some T&A.

Now why isn't THAT one sold out?

[bruckhorn 105]

I have read many of the posts here, at FSM, and the site that Lukas linked to and have found a mixed bag of responses. And I would like to add something to the list of contributing factors as to why people think that it is okay to download books, music, and movies off the web:

The Public Library.

Think about it. It’s been around for decades and as each new form of media has been introduced, they pop up at the library. Want to read the latest newspaper or magazine, sit a spell and enjoy. When I was a kid, I could check out books & LP’s and over the years CD’s, VHS tapes, and DVD’s have been added to the available resources. Now, thanks to the internet, I can download e-books and audiobooks from my library (and I thought being able to renew items on-line was cutting edge).

The major differences are availability and duration of possession.

You might be surprised at what is available. Back in college I was able to get the sheet music for a piece that Horner wrote back in the ’70’s through the university’s library. A few years ago I obtained, thanks to the local public library, The Day the Universe Changed on DVD when it would have cost $950 for the set and only libraries and schools could buy it. So, some of the obscure film scores that you don’t think would be at your local library could be getable from another one. Would a library buy the Ron Jones box or the Superman blue box? Probably not, but somebody could eventually donate them. When I moved, I severely pared down my possessions and the books, CD’s, and DVD’s that didn’t get bought at the local used stores got donated to the local library.

A “Full of Shit” argument? Perhaps, but I thought I would toss it out there anyway.

Piracy isn’t going away. As we move to a society that is more digitally based, it’s getting easier to produce illegal copies and with increased data transfer speeds, it’s getting easier to distribute those illegal copies. What are the smaller record labels to do? Hire lawyers to stamp out the pirates? How much money do you think those labels have to spend tilting at that windmill? A supervisor once told me: “Don’t spend $20 tracking down 5.” The small labels can’t afford the legal fees to pursue piracy civilly and it is seen by many as a victimless crime, so it becomes a matter of morality. I know if I found out that my local police were hunting down people who were downloading illegal copies, my first thought would be, “Couldn’t you be doing something more important, like stopping the bums from urinating in the alley behind my work?”

As for Lukas quitting: he started Film Score Monthly back in high school and he’s more than a few years out of college. If he quits, what’s he going to do?

[Wojo 2,453]

It's situations like these that make me wish that I had an FSM account.

It's also situations like these that make me glad I don't have an FSM account.

[Ollie 1,059]

Given his experience and connections I'm sure he'll find something to do.

[Wojo 2,453]

LeHah kicked it up a notch on page 25 over at FSM on the I WILL CRUSH thread.

[indy4 155]

Wow, I decided to read this thread (I had been avoiding it as I'm not too interested in the boxset), and I'm shocked. That is pretty disgusting behavior, I hope FSM can make whatever money they lost through legal triumphs. So, is he actually quitting? Or is all this talk of him quitting based purely on him saying he would if this continues?

I certainly hope he stays in the business - it would be a shame if one of the leading specialty labels left (especially when they could be working on the rumored Family Plot release!).

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Are things that slow? I guess you could say that Lukas Kendall is...not a merry man!

[Wojo 2,453]

He shouldn't quit!

I mean, what would have happened if Bill Gates had quit Microsoft after the first $150+ copy of a Windows operating system was uploaded to the internet and distributed for free?

*thinks about it*

Ok, bad example.

I am 1% of the people who own a signed Ron Jones boxset. I'll miss the opportunity to own new kickass boxsets.

[John Crichton 4]

LeHah kicked it up a notch on page 25 over at FSM on the I WILL CRUSH thread.

Overdone but well done.

I'll echo the thought that Lukas is taking this one much more personally, this is a set that he poured his heart into and his reaction is perfectly understandable. I'm sure after some time and reflection he'll decide that it's worth it to continue.

[Trent B 337]

Ya Lehah's post was pretty hilarious.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'll tell you why this box set isn't selling. Because only the most hard core Star Trek The Next Generation nerd would want to buy this, let alone listen to it all the way through. Even d/l for free that many disks would be a hassle and a waste of hard drive space to most people.

A lot of FSM titles sell out within hours so clearly piracy isn't that much of an issue.

[Trent B 337]

Actually the reason why this set isn't selling well is I believe because of the price factor. I've actually seen quite a few posters (non Star Trek fans as well) express their interest in the set but they simply can not afford it at the time being.

$163 (with shipping and more so for over seas people) is a lot to plunk down on any set, especially one like this. Personally for myself, the price alone was really pushing it but I wanted the set bad enough so that is why I bought it.

[King Mark 3,631]

So poor sales = expensive price + lack of interest in the music. Not piracy.

I don't see the point of going after the ffshrine, in some cases it's the only resource for stuff we can't otherwise get .When stuff like Harry Potter leak and people download it , it's the studios who can only blame themselves for not releasing the music legally in the first place. I will never, ever side with them on this basis alone.

oh, and I bet 90% of the people posting in that FSM thread outraged about piracy and file sharing grabbed the Harry Potter 1 recording sessions anyways. Actually I am certain of it .

[Nemesis 245]

So poor sales = expensive price + lack of interest in the music. Not piracy.

I don't see the point of going after the ffshrine, in some cases it's the only resource for stuff we can't otherwise get .When stuff like Harry Potter leak and people download it , it's the studios who can only blame themselves for not releasing the music legally in the first place. I will never, ever side with them on this basis alone.

oh, and I bet 90% of the people posting in that FSM thread outraged about piracy and file sharing grabbed the Harry Potter 1 recording sessions anyways. Actually I am certain of it .

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I bet it's more than 90%.

[King Mark 3,631]

Unless they don't know about it

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I bet it's more than 90%.

I'd bet almost everyone who posted "I'm in tears at this news" already knew about ffshrine, or at least that that forums like it exist. It's just 'brave-facing' for Lukas.

KM - the problem I see with ffshrine is that everyone on there has a sense of entitlement, that every new release will appear there and they can get it free. If someone uploads it to www.reallyslowdownloads.com, someone will say "hey, can you put it somewhere faster please?". It's not just a question of what many of us do - downloading to preview, and decide whether to buy - but people who just won't pay for stuff and pretty much knowthe damage they're doing. They even banned Lukas himself apparently - they just don't care.

But the upside is that a lot of people on there go searching for rare/oop/unreleased stuff and report back with it. The community has its uses

Edit - hey the forum's down. Has Lukas done something?

[King Mark 3,631]

seems to work.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They even banned Lukas himself apparently - they just don't care.

Yep, they banned the man that poured his heart, soul, and wallet into getting them that music.

[Ollie 1,059]

I didn't know about FFshrine.

But then I don't go searching for freebies all over the web.

Of course it's hurting sales. If all those people would buy it instead of illegally stealing it then sales would be better.

I don't know where this sudden trend of people claiming they are entitled to everything has come from. I know it's a hopeless argument but at one time if you couldn't afford something you did without it. Quite a concept isn't it?

See the concern here is more about piracy. In the past year it seems more idiots have done more things to piss off the record producers, from stealing to ignorant and uninformed comments about the production of these scores. Of course Lukas and co know about some of these sights and to their credit they have gone after them in the past.

My fear is that eventually it's going to build to point where they all say f*** it and walk away.

But some you will continue to be ignorant on this matter and continue to not understand how it all works.

So when it all ends and you're back to ripping DVD channels with crappy sounds and missing music or the major studios decide to go the download route only with poorly produced albums, well you can look back and wonder why.

However I'm not going to derail this thread any longer, I've said my piece and King Mark has done more than enough damage at FSM already concerning this topic.

[King Mark 3,631]

However I'm not going to derail this thread any longer, I've said my piece and King Mark has done more than enough damage at FSM already concerning this topic.

Not sure why your pointing the finger at me when the thread has been going on for 10 pages over there with various opinions on the topic

So when it all ends and you're back to ripping DVD channels with crappy sounds and missing music or the major studios decide to go the download route only with poorly produced albums, well you can look back and wonder why.

Well,that's what we still have to deal with most of our John Williams scores. Those things never change. When we get shoddy release like the TPM UE and the Indy box or no release at all then leaked recording session become our only hope.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm not pointing a finger at you and saying you're responsible for the entire thread but you didn't help matters for this place by jumping in over there.

[steb74 53]

KM has done absolutely nothing wrong over there .....????

He has however been lambasted by the typical FSM trolling internet wannabe bully police.

[King Mark 3,631]

The FSM board is like a different planet to me. Some members are so square, serious and uptight that I can't even comprehend them.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well that's a matter of opinion and like I said, I've said my piece so it would probably be best to just jump back in and discuss the box set.

If anyone is to blame it's me for posting this back on page 2 and drawing attention to it.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I don't think Lukas or FSM or anyone else for that matter will be able to accomplish anything. The company I'm working for had an issue with them, and similar websites and between our massive publisher and label, not a damn thing has been accomplished.

That is simply because at the end of the day, "crushing FFShrine" is a legal issue. And thus far no one has been able to do that.

This is just a lot of steam right now. Bigger labels, bigger companies have considered this issue and dropped it.

I side with the people like Lukas though. They are ultimately the victim of a system designed to artificially control scarcity, thereby resulting in outrageous pricing and restrictions/union fees etc. etc. making it very attractive for people to begin pirating, and unattractive for people like Lukas to try so hard to get things released. And every once in a while the little guy trying to do honest business gets caught up in the piracy bit of it, unfortunately.

As for those who are being labeled as feeling entitled, I could just as easily label them as smarter than the buyers for recognizing a broken and disingenuous system for what it is. So let's not think too high and mightily of ourselves.

At the end of the day these pirates are going to be the mechanism of change for the many industries that have dug their heels in so deep in the face of quickly changing technology. Ironically, I believe the people Lukas wants to hunt will help people like himself in the long run, rather than hurt them. They're going to break down a system that makes it such bitch for Lukas to get his projects through.

[King Mark 3,631]

He got the box set links removed from ffshrine but they're up at some other well known site anyways

[John Crichton 4]

I don't know where this sudden trend of people claiming they are entitled to everything has come from. I know it's a hopeless argument but at one time if you couldn't afford something you did without it. Quite a concept isn't it?

Unfortunately I think a lot of this just comes from the sense of entitlement permeating our entire culture in general nowadays. I could go on long, mostly political rant but that little green name over there I just earned compels me not to.

If anyone is to blame it's me for posting this back on page 2 and drawing attention to it.

Ban him!

The film score community is a very tight-knit bunch. There's lots of people that I'm friends with online, friends on FB, etc. that work in the industry in one capacity or another. It's beyond me why anyone that's part of this community would want to support anything that would take away from the living these folks make, and put into jeopardy the wonderful things that they do for all of us.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Like I said, I believe the bandits will help people like Lukas in the long run.

[steb74 53]

I also think man's sense of entitlement is ....well, as old as man.

[Ollie 1,059]

Like I said, I believe the bandits will help people like Lukas in the long run.

Well if they even stick around long enough to continue what they are doing.

I wasn't going to buy the Ron Jones box because, well I have too many CDs and just not enough time to listen. But given recent events I think I've changed my mind.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I just feel sorry for Lukas in this case.

On the one hand he has the draconian music system to deal with. On the other hand once he slaves away to deal with them, his work is put online...valued at nada, zip.

[steb74 53]

I can live with the sheep theft ...it's what they were gonna do to the poor sod that troubles me (and it wasn't anything to do with a sandwich!! )

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Wow I think my sheep bit got edited out by me. Now you look like an idiot steb.

Anyways, I think what I said to steb was along the lines...

Aaahh but it was because his great great great great great grandaddy was robbed of his sheep by those thieving bastards that he settled down behind a wall and farmed...which eventually turned into the Roman empire.

[steb74 53]

Haha ....you should have just left it man.

It would of been interesting for anyone reading the thread to get to my post and think WTF!!! Ron Jones, piracy .......sheep theft????!!!

[Nemesis 245]

It's getting better and better:

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=73003&forumID=1&archive=0

[steb74 53]

It's just unreal! ...and it's incredible how just one photo makes me think film score fans should be bagged and drowned.

[King Mark 3,631]

It's getting better and better:

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=73003&forumID=1&archive=0

Good lord,those people are weird. Did they all pledge servitude to the altar of Lukas Kendal?

[Trent B 337]

It's just unreal! ...and it's incredible how just one photo makes me think film score fans should be bagged and drowned.

What do you mean?

[John Crichton 4]

But what about the sheep? Will people think of the sheep!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Serious LOL. I think of this thread as a....going away present.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

[Nemesis 245]

It's just unreal! ...and it's incredible how just one photo makes me think film score fans should be bagged and drowned.

What do you mean?

I'm not Ste but I assume he ment the picture of Christian Kühne.