The endless yearn (aka why do you want all of a film's music?)

[Thor 7,529]

I say, if you have listening skills, you're able to distinguish between what you like and what you don't like, and you're able to assemble a short program.

And again, I have to repeat that putting together an album is not the same as just creating your own personal "highlights playlist" (which one shouldn't really be required to in the first place).

[Incanus 5,716]

Artists/composers are usually professionals...at least they try to make a living of what they do, even though some have to have extra jobs if times are rough. Not all record producers are composers, of course, but they have the experience on their side as a good substitute.

Can you say what is the rough percentage of bad soundtrack albums you encounter, even though your faith in the producers seems very implicit, and what are most common reasons that they do not appeal to you?

[Jay 37,376]

I say, if you have listening skills, you're able to distinguish between what you like and what you don't like, and you're able to assemble a short program.

And again, I have to repeat that putting together an album is not the same as just creating your own personal "highlights playlist" (which one shouldn't really be required to in the first place).

Of course it is. An album is simply the composer and/or album producer's idea of the highlights of a film score.

[Incanus 5,716]

I say, if you have listening skills, you're able to distinguish between what you like and what you don't like, and you're able to assemble a short program.

And again, I have to repeat that putting together an album is not the same as just creating your own personal "highlights playlist" (which one shouldn't really be required to in the first place).

Of course it is. An album is simply the composer and/or album producer's idea of the highlights of a film score.

It is the artistic product which they want to present to the audience.

[Brónach 1,302]

I say, if you have listening skills, you're able to distinguish between what you like and what you don't like, and you're able to assemble a short program.

And again, I have to repeat that putting together an album is not the same as just creating your own personal "highlights playlist" (which one shouldn't really be required to in the first place).

But creating a highlights playlist is not what I do

I've done it several ways. Not taking the film into account you can create a suite like Saint-Saens' Animals. Or with some thought give it a structure like a symphony! There are many options, it depends of the score.

[Thor 7,529]

I say, if you have listening skills, you're able to distinguish between what you like and what you don't like, and you're able to assemble a short program.

And again, I have to repeat that putting together an album is not the same as just creating your own personal "highlights playlist" (which one shouldn't really be required to in the first place).

Of course it is. An album is simply the composer and/or album producer's idea of the highlights of a film score.

Nope, that's a way too limiting way to look at it, IMO. Let me copy/paste what I already wrote on page 1:

... Putting together a personal highlights playlist does not an album make! There are all kinds of different things going into it in addition to picking out the worthwhile tracks - creating an overall album dramaturgy, binding tracks together that mesh well musically, creating an ebb and flow of upbeat and downbeat tracks, sometimes perhaps fading tracks in and out and overlapping them and so on and so on, to make for maximum fluid listening. These were the considerations that concept album producers had in mind when they put together the classic prog rock albums in the 70's and beyond, and to suggest to them that anyone could have put it together just as well if they had access to all the material would be somewhat of an offense, I think. Album production has been -- and will forever be -- an artform onto itself.

If having the choice between fooling around with my amateur skills to create something coherent out of something I shouldn't really have to or having a professional record producer or the composer HIMSELF create their artistic vision for me, the choice is fairly simple.

I have to reiterate again that art isn't a democratic process. Artists are in their right to present their works to us any which way they want; the way they feel best represents their vision. Of course, we are in OUR right to like or dislike said presentation (just as we can criticize how a book or a painting or a film is put together), but that's where the buck stops.

Can you say what is the rough percentage of bad soundtrack albums you encounter, even though your faith in the producers seems very implicit, and what are most common reasons that they do not appeal to you?

You mean A&A albums?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

In my case, listening to a score goes beyond listening to the music. The composer, the performers and the producers are also part of the whole uni-directional monologue. Just like an actor, a director and a light designer are part of a Shakespeare monologue on the stage. I don't want to do my own assemblies and turn a listening experience into an onanistic one.

Also, if I was behind the assembly, I'm afraid I would focus on that instead of the music.

[Incanus 5,716]

Can you say what is the rough percentage of bad soundtrack albums you encounter, even though your faith in the producers seems very implicit, and what are most common reasons that they do not appeal to you?

You mean A&A albums?

Yes. Not all composers still hold to the dogma that more is more but many younger ones release long score albums much to their fans' delight.

[Brónach 1,302]

Well if that's Thor's definition of an album I can definitely do that.

[Thor 7,529]

In my case, listening to a score goes beyond listening to the music. The composer, the performers and the producers are also part of the whole uni-directional monologue. Just like an actor, a director and a light designer are part of a Shakespeare monologue on the stage. I don't want to do my own assemblies and turn a listening experience into an onanistic one.

Also, if I was behind the assembly, I'm afraid I would focus on that instead of the music.

In my case, listening to a score goes beyond listening to the music. The composer, the performers and the producers are also part of the whole uni-directional monologue. Just like an actor, a director and a light designer are part of a Shakespeare monologue on the stage. I don't want to do my own assemblies and turn a listening experience into an onanistic one.

Also, if I was behind the assembly, I'm afraid I would focus on that instead of the music.

Exactly!

The assembly of the music/adaptation for the new medium is also very much part of the artistic expression, almost as much as the actual music itself!

[Brónach 1,302]

You people seem to enjoy stopping yourselves from listening to music.

[Thor 7,529]

Can you say what is the rough percentage of bad soundtrack albums you encounter, even though your faith in the producers seems very implicit, and what are most common reasons that they do not appeal to you?

You mean A&A albums?

Yes. Not all composers still hold to the dogma that more is more but many younger ones release long score albums much to their fans' delight.

True. Giacchino comes to mind (a composer I don't particularly care for anyways). I'm usually disappointed by guys like him because I feel they betray their "obligation" to present their music to us in a way that presents it in best possible light, away from the film. They insist on C&C (or close to C&C) instead.

So there's really no "A&A" going into it at all (or marginally at best). Thankfully, most composers aren't like that, though. They share my view.

If you're asking me about A&A albums, however, I can't think of an album produced that way that disappointed me off the top of my head. Neither by Williams or anyone else. I'm sure there are some. I'll have to think about it, it's a rare event.

You people seem to enjoy stopping yourselves from listening to music.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

If you're asking me about A&A albums, however, I can't think of an album produced that way that disappointed me off the top of my head. Neither by Williams or anyone else. I'm sure there are some. I'll have to think about it, it's a rare event.

Thelma & Louise?

[Brónach 1,302]

Days of Heaven for me. It felt like there was something there, but it was rough, primitive, underdeveloped, and suddenly ended.

True. Giacchino comes to mind (a composer I don't particularly care for anyways). I'm usually disappointed by guys like him because I feel they betray their "obligation" to present their music to us in a way that presents it in best possible light, away from the film. They insist on C&C (or close to C&C) instead.

I think you're imposing that obligation on them. I think you said you preferred them to present the music the way they thought best. They're artists, you know.

I would make a change in the Super 8 album and put the suite at the end so there's an alternance with the short film music and it feels more like an ending.

[Thor 7,529]

If you're asking me about A&A albums, however, I can't think of an album produced that way that disappointed me off the top of my head. Neither by Williams or anyone else. I'm sure there are some. I'll have to think about it, it's a rare event.

Thelma & Louise?

You're talking about the original songtrack? That was actually pretty well put together, even though there should have been more score. The latter was rectified with the recent Kritzerland release, which -- incidentally -- is one of the few C&C releases I think work quite well.

I think you're imposing that obligation on them. I think you said you preferred them to present the music the way they thought best.

Perhaps 'betray their possibility' instead of 'betray their obligation' is a better way to put it.

[Jay 37,376]

Of course it is. An album is simply the composer and/or album producer's idea of the highlights of a film score.

Nope, that's a way too limiting way to look at it, IMO. Let me copy/paste what I already wrote on page 1:

... Putting together a personal highlights playlist does not an album make! There are all kinds of different things going into it in addition to picking out the worthwhile tracks - creating an overall album dramaturgy, binding tracks together that mesh well musically, creating an ebb and flow of upbeat and downbeat tracks, sometimes perhaps fading tracks in and out and overlapping them and so on and so on, to make for maximum fluid listening. These were the considerations that concept album producers had in mind when they put together the classic prog rock albums in the 70's and beyond, and to suggest to them that anyone could have put it together just as well if they had access to all the material would be somewhat of an offense, I think. Album production has been -- and will forever be -- an artform onto itself.

If having the choice between fooling around with my amateur skills to create something coherent out of something I shouldn't really have to or having a professional record producer or the composer HIMSELF create their artistic vision for me, the choice is fairly simple.

I have to reiterate again that art isn't a democratic process. Artists are in their right to present their works to us any which way they want; the way they feel best represents their vision. Of course, we are in OUR right to like or dislike said presentation (just as we can criticize how a book or a painting or a film is put together), but that's where the buck stops.

But this is where you are too close-minded, have been for years, and choose not to accept any other interpretations. It is absolutely NOT required to overlap tracks, change the sequence of tracks, or anything like that to create an artistic, musical listening experience. You are being too black and white. it is COMPLETELY dependent on the score. EVERY SINGLE SCORE IS DIFFERENT. Each score must be approached differently. Look at John Williams himself - someone who you have repeatedly said is a great album producer. He has sometimes gone the 'completely out of order' route (Phantom Menace, Tintin, The Terminal) and sometimes gone the "more or less in film order" route (War Horse, Saving Private Ryan, Harry Potter 1). If you think listening to the music in the same order as it was meant to be used in the film is a bad experience 100% of the time then you are just being stubborn and ignorant, honestly.

[Thor 7,529]

But this is where you are too close-minded, have been for years, and choose not to accept any other interpretations. It is absolutely NOT required to overlap tracks, change the sequence of tracks, or anything like that to create an artistic, musical listening experience. You are being too black and white. it is COMPLETELY dependent on the score. EVERY SINGLE SCORE IS DIFFERENT. Each score must be approached differently. Look at John Williams himself - someone who you have repeatedly said is a great album producer. He has sometimes gone the 'completely out of order' route (Phantom Menace, Tintin, The Terminal) and sometimes gone the "more or less in film order" route (War Horse, Saving Private Ryan, Harry Potter 1). If you think listening to the music in the same order as it was meant to be used in the film is a bad experience 100% of the time then you are just being stubborn and ignorant, honestly.

Dude, we were doing fine with polite back-and-forths here, so no need to go personal like that. Certainly not fitting for a moderator.

I've already said many times that it happens once in a blue moon that a C&C actually works fine. For me, the ratio is probably 99-1 in favour of the A&A, but it DOES happen now and then. I've mentioned ROCKY IV, THELMA & LOUISE and the Arista STAR WARSes.

Nothing is absolute, but there will always be principles guiding and influencing one's taste in things. Yours are different from mine, but no less or more valid. In fact, this is not about right or wrong in the first place, it's about understanding why we have so opposite taste within a mutual interest. Trying to get behind the rationale and to respect each other's viewpoints, difficult as it may be to wrap our heads around it.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

True, supply and demand and all that. But it would be nice if they -- at least once in a while -- made an album for people like me. We're actually a considerable bunch, although perhaps not as dominant as the C&C enthusiasts. I know that Doug at Intrada actually shares some of my ideology on this. It would be cool if he had the guts to present an album according to his taste once in a while. That would underscore the importance of the underrated ART aspect of record production.

Intrada does do this - they've done the 'album' and 'extras' arrangement for a number of releases, and I'm absolutely supportive of that idea.

[Datameister 2,044]

La-La Land has also done some "complete score + album presentation" releases. Costs a bit more, but in many cases, a complete release without the OST presentation would still require two discs, so the difference isn't huge. And even though I love saving money, I support this practice as well, because it gives me a choice. You can be sure I'll listen to both versions at least once, and in many cases, I find myself returning to both of them, because sometimes I want to hear the soundtrack and sometimes I want to hear the film score.

I do believe that when it comes to new scores, single-disc abridged releases are more financially viable than two-disc complete releases; that's why we virtually never see the latter from the big labels when the films come out. And it makes sense, since many people will be more hesitant to spend the money on a two-disc release. But as I've said before, it'd be nice if these big labels would include a unique code with each physical OST album, a code that allowed the buyer to also legally download the complete score (leaked recording sessions style) for a little more money. (Preferably with a lossless option.) This is a pretty low-risk idea, as far as I can tell, since the cost of offering these complete scores digitally would be directly proportional to the number of people deciding to download them. It wouldn't be like releasing a physical two-disc album, where you print X albums and hope they'll sell.

[Thor 7,529]

La-La Land has also done some "complete score + album presentation" releases. Costs a bit more, but in many cases, a complete release without the OST presentation would still require two discs, so the difference isn't huge. And even though I love saving money, I support this practice as well, because it gives me a choice. You can be sure I'll listen to both versions at least once, and in many cases, I find myself returning to both of them, because sometimes I want to hear the soundtrack and sometimes I want to hear the film score.

I do believe that when it comes to new scores, single-disc abridged releases are more financially viable than two-disc complete releases; that's why we virtually never see the latter from the big labels when the films come out. And it makes sense, since many people will be more hesitant to spend the money on a two-disc release. But as I've said before, it'd be nice if these big labels would include a unique code with each physical OST album, a code that allowed the buyer to also legally download the complete score (leaked recording sessions style) for a little more money. (Preferably with a lossless option.) This is a pretty low-risk idea, as far as I can tell, since the cost of offering these complete scores digitally would be directly proportional to the number of people deciding to download them. It wouldn't be like releasing a physical two-disc album, where you print X albums and hope they'll sell.

That's actually an excellent idea!! Far better than my compromise solution.

[crocodile 8,020]

That wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

But it MUST be lossless.

I think in the far end they will just put all the cues on the Internet for people to download the ones they like.

[crocodile 8,020]

Although I would miss the liner notes and all that. The one thing I really enjoy is reading all these analyses/essays. Love the smell of it as well.

Karol

[Ricard 2,245]

Thor, I apologize in advance, but you're the last person in the world who knows ANYTHING about "frustration" when it comes to film score releases, as you have no idea about the REAL frustration of those who have been denied MOST of the music from the film scores we love FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS.

And yes, I'm calling you a total ignorant in that regard.

Sorry again.

[Jay 37,376]

And it's insulting to the producers of C&C albums do not have a skill that they put to use when making an album, or that they don't work very hard at it. It's not as simply as simply finding all the cues and plopping them down in order. You still have to decide which ones to overlap and which to separate, how much time to put between each one (this is a widely under appreciated aspect of album flow), and determine which cue to put in the flow of the score and which to put in the bonus track section when it comes to source music and alternates. I assure you Mike Matessino worked very hard, spent a long time, and put a lot of thought into the way he arranged the 1941 2CD set.

It is foolhardy to look at a tracklist of a release, think "oh that's C&C so I know I won't like it". Every release is different.

[Wojo 2,453]

Another thing to realize is that with most of the scores that are now receiving C&C albums, this is not the first time that they have had a score album sold. Many times it was an LP or tape or abridged CD that went out of print or just became very hard to find and thus expensive. Since the labels have been buying the rights to these scores, they have released the albums that they wanted to see created, and they have largely been a critical success. The fans gobbled them up. No, it's not a financially lucrative industry or these would be at Walmart and FYE and Amazon instead of the niche markets. But the couple thousand fans who buy these each week are mostly very gracious to what the labels are producing, with of course notable exceptions here and there. Can't please everyone.

I can understand if someone has a nostalgic fondness for the "A&A" album as originally presented all those years ago. "1941"'s 39 minute 1979 album instead of LLR's two disc effort. The original Empire LP instead of the Anthology + Disc 4 or the Special Edition two-disc set. If that's what you grew up with and don't want to hear it any other way, that's fine.

But when it comes to condemning everybody in the soundtrack label industry as doing it wrong for doing it C&C, well, that's a bit much. Don't buy the new albums. Keep your old ones, sit down, shut up, and go color.

[Brónach 1,302]

I think you're imposing that obligation on them. I think you said you preferred them to present the music the way they thought best.

Perhaps 'betray their possibility' instead of 'betray their obligation' is a better way to put it.

Huh?

[OneBuckFilms 324]

I think you're imposing that obligation on them. I think you said you preferred them to present the music the way they thought best.

Perhaps 'betray their possibility' instead of 'betray their obligation' is a better way to put it.

Huh?

I think Thor is thinking of the C&C presentations as a missed opportunity of putting the kind of artistry of arrangement and presentation for an A&A release.

Thor, although I certainly understand your preference, and share an admiration and appreciation of a well put together album, it is a stretch to say that a C&C release lacks the artistry or creativity of an A&A release.

To my mind, they are both different presentations of the score, and have very different aims at the outset.

Those who want expanded/complete scores are very much more attuned to the way a score might sound in a C&C compared to an A&A release, and simply want more of the music from the score to complete the true musical picture as composed.

I count myself in this category.

Also, others here have pointed out the efforts to present these scores in a C&C release:

- Liner Notes

- Which Alternate cues are included, and how.

- Which source cues are included, and how.

- Mastering, editing, restoration of the tapes.

- Navigating the costly, complex legalities, licenses, royalties and union fees etc.

- Designing the artwork and packaging.

- Mastering, editing, researching the cues to pick the best/correct takes, joining cues sometimes where musically appropriate, deciding gaps/track changes between cues etc.

- In many cases, working with the composer.

All of this, whether A&A or C&C is a LOT of work.

Your real issue is that you simply don't see the artistry that goes into a C&C release.

Your preference for a good A&A presentation, ala LP presentations (Original Star Wars release is a great example of this), is definately something I can understand and appreciate.

But each score has it's challenges, and each release also has it's challenges, including the intended audience and scope.

[Jay 37,376]

But each score has it's challenges, and each release also has it's challenges, including the intended audience and scope.

EXACTLY.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

But when it comes to condemning everybody in the soundtrack label industry as doing it wrong for doing it C&C, well, that's a bit much. Don't buy the new albums. Keep your old ones, sit down, shut up, and go color.

Before this thread goes down the gutter, I would like to clarify that nobody here has, as of yet, condemned anybody in the soundtrack industry for presenting any score however they liked. So far, it has been a defense of certain presentations, whether A&A or C&C, and nobody has been required to either sit down, let alone shut up, and much less go color. Everybody has defended all points of view while stressing that there's not one absolute to release soundtracks.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Everybody in the soundtrack label industry can go to hell.

[Jacob 0]

Uncool, bro.

[Brónach 1,302]

But when it comes to condemning everybody in the soundtrack label industry as doing it wrong for doing it C&C, well, that's a bit much. Don't buy the new albums. Keep your old ones, sit down, shut up, and go color.

Before this thread goes down the gutter, I would like to clarify that nobody here has, as of yet, condemned anybody in the soundtrack industry for presenting any score however they liked. So far, it has been a defense of certain presentations, whether A&A or C&C, and nobody has been required to either sit down, let alone shut up, and much less go color. Everybody has defended all points of view while stressing that there's not one absolute to release soundtracks.

The last few posts, by Wojo and Jason and Ricard and OneBuckFilms, aren't in favour of any absolute, they're just pointing out some arguably poor statements that have been made here.

(In fact the one thing that's going a bit absolute are Thor's subjective views on the matter, but whatever floats his boat )

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I have to reiterate again that art isn't a democratic process. Artists are in their right to present their works to us any which way they want; the way they feel best represents their vision. Of course, we are in OUR right to like or dislike said presentation (just as we can criticize how a book or a painting or a film is put together), but that's where the buck stops.

This shall not apply to George Lucas.

[Datameister 2,044]

Although I would miss the liner notes and all that. The one thing I really enjoy is reading all these analyses/essays. Love the smell of it as well.

I agree, including the thing about the smell. Owning physical albums is still a pleasure for me, even though most of my actual listening is done digitally these days. My selfish "perfect world" preference would be for every score to simply have two physical releases - album presentation and complete score - and these could be bought separately, or together for a price somewhat less than the sum of their individual prices (due to the fact that you're paying for some of the same music twice). But I understand why this isn't really a financially viable option, as much as I wish it was...and I'd rather get a lossless download of the complete score along with my physical OST than just the OST by itself.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The specialty labels should start selling "That New Album Smell" spray -- or bundle it free with a certain number of MP3 downloads.

[Quintus 5,399]

What I find astonishing is how Thor never seems to tire of repeating himself over and over again. This old debate comes up all the time and he's always in there, quick to remind everyone of his stance on the matter. The fact that a thread has been created solely devoted to the subject and everything it encompasses must be heaven on earth for the guy! Yes Thor, we know how you feel, we don't forget every time a discussion comes to an end!

Try not to take the passionate opinions of others too personally

[crocodile 8,020]

Look at it this way. At least it brings some necessary stability to our lives. The sense some things won't change.

Karol

[Trent B 337]

What I find astonishing is how Thor never seems to tire of repeating himself over and over again. This old debate comes up all the time and he's always in there, quick to remind everyone of his stance on the matter. The fact that a thread has been created solely devoted to the subject and everything it encompasses must be heaven on earth for the guy! Yes Thor, we know how you feel, we don't forget every time a discussion comes to an end!

Try not to take the passionate opinions of others too personally

This my friend is the very reason why I have put Thor on ignore on both here and FSM. I got tired of reading the same old bullshit, over and over again. No matter how many times he would twist the words around to make it seem different, it wasn't.

I especially grew tired of it when he would always stuck his nose into the PR threads from La-La Land, or perhaps those who create PR threads for Intrada, FSM and Varèse releases. Always spouting his usual bullshit ...quite a slap in the face to the labels and highly rude if I do say so myself. Considering how much legal crap they (the labels) go through just to even get this music out to us.

He's a broken record player that plays the same sequence over and over again...

[Thor 7,529]

Thor, I apologize in advance, but you're the last person in the world who knows ANYTHING about "frustration" when it comes to film score releases, as you have no idea about the REAL frustration of those who have been denied MOST of the music from the film scores we love FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS.

And yes, I'm calling you a total ignorant in that regard.

Sorry again.

Excuse me, Ricard, but who are you to say which kind of frustration is more 'real' than another? I find that a bit offensive, to be honest. Yours is a valid form just as mine is. None is more "real" than the other, but they're very different kinds of frustration.

Try not to take the passionate opinions of others too personally

I am not taking it personally at all. In fact, from what I can read here, some of you have been the only ones resorting to personal remarks here. My concern is only issue-oriented, charting this big divide between us, to understand why we feel the way we do (which often requires clarification and clearing up misunderstandings that both camps apparently have of the opposing camp....hence these threads tend to go on for a while).

I also love those compromise solutions offered above. That is taking things in a more constructive direction!

[Brónach 1,302]

Excuse me, Ricard, but who are you to say which kind of frustration is more 'real' than another? I find that a bit offensive, to be honest. Yours is a valid form just as mine is. None is more "real" than the other, but they're very different kinds of frustration.

Well, as far as I can see, the origin of your frustation is that you think you aren't going to have short albums from now on, and don't want people to do it for you in the unjustified belief that they aren't capable of creating short albums.

I'm just trying to understand here. If 99% of album releases are all suspiciously great listenings and all the care put into film scores by the great composers be damned, then what's there to be frustated about?

[Thor 7,529]

Excuse me, Ricard, but who are you to say which kind of frustration is more 'real' than another? I find that a bit offensive, to be honest. Yours is a valid form just as mine is. None is more "real" than the other, but they're very different kinds of frustration.

Well, as far as I can see, the origin of your frustation is that you think you aren't going to have short albums from now on, and don't want people to do it for you in the unjustified belief that they aren't capable of creating short albums.

I'm just trying to understand here. If 99% of album releases are all suspiciously great listenings and the care put into film scores be damned, what's there to be frustated about?

Perhaps that 99% of album releases (from niche labels, in particular) AREN'T great listenings?

If there's already an album-arranged program out there, widely available, there's not really a problem. I'll just stick with that. The problem really occurs when the niche labels decide to release a previously unreleased score C&C with no thought being invested into album listening and there's no other alternative out there either.

[Brónach 1,302]

The problem really occurs when the niche labels decide to release a previously unreleased score C&C with no thought being invested into album listening

This is untrue like we've already explained.

And even then, how would you you knoe that it' not a good listening if you won't listen to it and don't care if something is left outside of it or not?

and there's no other alternative out there either.

I understand this.

Lets look for solutions. You could give the music a try or let others assemble an short album for you like always. I'm trying to be constructive here.

[Thor 7,529]

The problem really occurs when the niche labels decide to release a previously unreleased score C&C with no thought being invested into album listening

This is untrue like we've already explained.

I don't think it's untrue at all. There are obviously other thoughts going into it, like having the optimal sound quality, writing liner notes etc., but as far musical presentation and structuring are concerned, no effort whatsoever has been made to adapt the music to its new medium. It's a verbatim transfer of the tracks from film to CD (without the musical edits of the film, of course).

And even then, how would you you knoe that it' not a good listening if you won't listen to it and don't care if something is left outside of it or not?

Because I've given a gazillion C&C releases a chance over the years, and only liked a very, very few. Enough to let it be a guiding principle for my taste and buying habits. Why would I keep buying something I know won't like, just in the likelihood that I eventually hit on the 1% that actually works? That's like ordering a pizza with sardines every time, even though you hate them....just in the case you may encounter some sardines you DO like.

Lets look for solutions. You could give the music a try or let others assemble an short album for you like always. I'm trying to be constructive here.

I think the 'download extra tracks for C&C enthusiasts' solution above was one of the best I've read so far.

[Ricard 2,245]

Excuse me, Ricard, but who are you to say which kind of frustration is more 'real' than another? I find that a bit offensive, to be honest. Yours is a valid form just as mine is. None is more "real" than the other, but they're very different kinds of frustration.

Mine has lasted for much longer. Therefore is much bigger. Period.

[Thor 7,529]

Excuse me, Ricard, but who are you to say which kind of frustration is more 'real' than another? I find that a bit offensive, to be honest. Yours is a valid form just as mine is. None is more "real" than the other, but they're very different kinds of frustration.

Mine has lasted for much longer. Therefore is much bigger. Period.

That's what SHE said....

Seriously, though, we are approximately the same age, aren't we? So I'm not sure there's much of a difference in time, nor that time really has any relevance in terms of how intense the frustration is felt. Plus, it leads us back to the "I'm more right than you" rhetoric, which will lead us nowhere fast.

Let's instead focus on compromise solutions which will minimize BOTH of our frustrations -- both for big commercial releases and niche label products.

[Brónach 1,302]

no effort whatsoever has been made to adapt the music to its new medium.

Maybe because the music sounds good?

And even then, there are choices to be made. Order of alternates, of concert arrangements, the segue of cues, or even finding out what is what and where's something supposed to go, and more

It's a verbatim transfer of the tracks from film to CD (without the musical edits of the film, of course).

And again, not necessarily. Depends of the score.

I think the 'download extra tracks for C&C enthusiasts' solution above was one of the best I've read so far.

Ok, but I was looking for actual solutions at hand.

I still have my problems with the "download extra tracks" idea.

[Thor 7,529]

Well, as long as we're dealing with physical products (i.e. CD's), there will always be a problem, since having both presentations on the same discs would be more expensive to produce and more expensive for the consumer. You can only have solutions inbetween, like the "download extra tracks" idea. However, if downloads are the way of the future, I think that will make it easier. You could then have two download options -- one with the A&A and one with the C&C (or just the remaining tracks that were left off the first). I'm not sure how they should be priced according to each other, though.

[Brónach 1,302]

Per minutes of music?

[Datameister 2,044]

Excuse me, Ricard, but who are you to say which kind of frustration is more 'real' than another? I find that a bit offensive, to be honest. Yours is a valid form just as mine is. None is more "real" than the other, but they're very different kinds of frustration.

Mine has lasted for much longer. Therefore is much bigger. Period.

That's what SHE said....

Seriously, though, we are approximately the same age, aren't we? So I'm not sure there's much of a difference in time, nor that time really has any relevance in terms of how intense the frustration is felt. Plus, it leads us back to the "I'm more right than you" rhetoric, which will lead us nowhere fast.

I think Ricard's point is that since the beginning of soundtrack history, there have been VERY few film scores that have gotten a complete release right off the bat. In almost every case, the first soundtrack albums have followed your preferences to a T. That's what frustrates him. In the last 10 years or so - a very brief period by comparison - a few small companies have attempted to offer a product that appeases the minority whose preferences are different. That's what frustrates you. In essence, your frustration is engendered by a very small, very recent movement, one that was a direct response to the much larger, ongoing movement that engenders our frustration.

Imagine, for example, if nearly every film score got a complete release right off the bat, ever since the beginning of soundtrack albums. Then, in the early 2000s, a few small companies came up with the idea of offering abridged listening experiences for a scattering of existing scores. Would your frustration be greater than it is now, in real life? If I were you, it certainly would be.