So Ridley Scott is directing a Prometheus sequel... (The official Alien: Covenant Thread)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The OST is all you need.

[Thor 7,518]

5 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

I'm glad you're excited for the movie Thor, I haven't watched the trailer (I have no interest in a sequel to Prometheus). But it's these statements where you reveal your zealous side; because I was already absolutely certain that you are a contrarian by nature, and a statement like the one above confirms it. 

 

The negativity you say you have noticed in regards to this movie means you're now determined to love it regardless, it is now your personal mission to vehemently disagree with those unimpressed by it until the movie is defended to a degree you have predetermined. Irrespective of the movie's actual quality (nobody knows yet). 

 

It's almost as if you begin to will people to disagree with you, just so you can "prove yourself right" (in your mind). The opposing polar forces though, they just stand idly by, casually awaiting your crash and burning, just for the giggles. 

 

You're free to psycho-analyze, but I promise you it's nothing as dramatic as that. It's just a personal reaction; a desire to defend something that you absolutely adore against a majority that does not. Being a 'contrarian' (your words, not mine) may be one such defense. I rather call it standing up for one's opinion, and adjusting one's rhetorics to the unfair treatment one feels it gets, i.e. the more criticism it gets, the stronger my counter-defense.

 

(for the record, I saw and fell in love with this trailer long before I logged on here to see the reactions).

[leeallen01 2,136]

I'm glad you like the look of it. I hope to be proven very wrong because I am a fan of the Alien series. I like Alien, love Aliens, like Alien 3, enjoy Resurrection for its fun and dumb side, and I actually enjoy Alien vs Predator as well, as a decent action film. So of course I want Covenant to succeed. 

[A24 4,345]

Guys, Scott lives in a bubble. He thinks he's doing the audience a pleasure by giving them Exodus and Robin Hood. Those who love Prometheus or any other movie Scott has made in the last 30 years will most probably like Covenant too. Those who during the same period have raised their eyebrows at Scott will not like it. You either went along with his way of moviemaking or you didn't. 

 

30 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I like Alien, love Aliens, ...

 

Ouch! 

[Jay 37,372]

4 hours ago, Richard said:

I, too, like the trailer, but...I  thought the release-month was August.

 

Not since a month ago when they revealed the new release date on the poster (which you incidentally commented on) 

 

 

 

On 11/23/2016 at 9:38 PM, Jay said:

 

 

On 11/24/2016 at 4:07 AM, Alexcremers said:

Poster not bad but terrible tagline.

 

On 11/24/2016 at 7:04 AM, Richard said:

 

Well, it's better than

"inspired by true events" 

 

[Thor 7,518]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

I'm glad you like the look of it. I hope to be proven very wrong because I am a fan of the Alien series. I like Alien, love Aliens, like Alien 3, enjoy Resurrection for its fun and dumb side, and I actually enjoy Alien vs Predator as well, as a decent action film. So of course I want Covenant to succeed. 

 

Thank you, leeallen -- a drop of light in this ocean of misery!

 

I share most of your thoughts (although I wouldn't call RESSURECTION 'dumb' -- it's very much a bulesque Jeunet film and has to be approached as such). The only ALIEN-related movie I don't really care for is ALIEN VS. PREDATOR: REQUIEM. It took the concept TOO far, in my opinion. But for what it is, even that is an effective horror movie. The first movie is actually a decent affair.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Not since a month ago when they revealed the new release date on the poster (which you incidentally commented on) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, dear, I am forgetful, aren't I?

[Quintus 5,399]

Loved Gladiator; enjoyed Matchstick Men, Robin Hood and The Martian. HATED Prometheus. 

 

Sweeping generalisations - they still don't work. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The fairy tale that Scott only ever made 3 good films and did so in the early part of his career is complete BS.

 

He's made loads of good ones, a few real clunkers and a few that do nothing for me but are solid.

 

And he's a very versatile director when it comes to the amount of genres he's worked in. Even moreso than Spielberg I reckon.

[Quintus 5,399]

I'd probably debate that last bit, but I'm happy to be reminded/educated. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Historical, straight action, biographical, sci-fi, horror, comedy, buddy movie, fantasy. Without even looking at IMDB he's done a wide variety.

 

I hate Prometheus, but more for the insipid and insulting script than his direction. Though I do hold him responsible for filming it.

[Quintus 5,399]

The direction is useless too, bar that one medical procedure sequence (which is unfortunately brilliant... and all but forgotten). 

 

Genre wise; can't Spielberg tick off all those you listed, and with a degree of aplomb? Plus more.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

True, and Spielberg has done animation. Has Ridley ever done a western? 

 

Both are very versatile "name" directors anyway. Far moreso than seems to be the norm these these. Not just genre wise, but style wise.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The LSO is more versatile than both of them.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I don't hate Prometheus at all. Whenever it's on, I usually leave it on the channel it's playing. But I was disappointed by it when I first saw it.

 

There are some movies I despise with a passion, and Prometheus ain't one of them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 minutes ago, Daniel Clamp said:

There are some movies I despise with a passion,

 

Batman Returns, Independence Day and Return Of The Jedi, right?

[Quintus 5,399]

12 minutes ago, Daniel Clamp said:

I don't hate Prometheus at all. Whenever it's on, I usually leave it on the channel it's playing. But I was disappointed by it when I first saw it.

 

There are some movies I despise with a passion, and Prometheus ain't one of them.

 

Any movie which badly underdelivers after it gets my hopes up I tend to hate forever. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Basic Instinct 2?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

19 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Batman Returns, Independence Day and Return Of The Jedi, right?

 

Return of the Jedi maybe.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He's getting us mixed up again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nonsense! Its your favorite of the OT!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

My favorite is Ewoks: The Battle for Endor. The best one is Revenge of the Sith.

[crumbs 14,318]

I re-watched Prometheus trying to get a better understanding of why people on the internet seem to despise it. These are my thoughts:

 

The script is occasionally clunky but Scott really nails the first hour. Brilliant world-building. Incredible shots throughout (especially love that silent shot of a speeding white light travelling through darkness). It's packed with incredible moments in the first act, which makes it all the more noticeable when the uneven stuff begins around about the crew's return from their first pyramid expedition.

 

From here, we get a sprinkling of great scenes (mostly everything with David) but a lot more clunky stuff. Scientists getting lost in a mapped pyramid? The crew ignoring their weird discoveries inside the pyramid? Wasn't the whole purpose of the trip a scientific exploration mission? Why weren't their head-mounted cameras recording on a scientific exploration mission? In this section, the film grinds to a narrative halt for about 25 minutes until David infects Holloway.

 

The film's most redeeming aspect is David. It's great seeing his motivations unravel; where does following orders end and where does autonomy begin? Excited to see where the character goes in Covenant (I suspect the film revolves around him but we're being marketed a traditional Alien film).

Spoiler

The idea of an autonomous android luring humans to be guinea pigs for biological experiments is a great premise for a horror film in the Alien universe (and a logical continuation of his character in Prometheus).

The film's primary themes (parenthood and creation) revolve around David, as do the questions posed. Did he want Weyland to die when he took him to meet the Engineer? What did he say to the Engineer? Has David become autonomous following Weyland's death? Where is he really going to take Shaw in that ship? I like the mystery here, you can reach your own conclusions.

 

On the topic of unanswered questions, none of them really detract from the story as told. We don't understand the black goo but we know it's a bio-weapon the Engineers developed on a backwater planet to destroy and corrupt organic cells. We don't know why they created it. We don't know why they wanted to destroy humans. We don't know why Earth's star maps pointed towards their weapons planet and not to their homeworld. If the Engineers created human life, who created them? Perhaps the Engineers created humans as little more than the perfect incubators for the alien? In my opinion, these are some pretty thought-provoking questions that enhance the film more than derail it.

 

All that said, I understand why people take issue with the film. It's uneven, a bit like Scott's career, but personally I'm happy to look past the flaws because it has a lot to offer. Especially in an age of big-budget Hollywood remakes, reboots and comic book adaptations, all playing it safe to four-quadrants. Prometheus might stumble at times but it raises interesting questions, subverts your expectations of what an Alien prequel would be, is a visual feast and the parallels it makes to 2001 are fun to discover. If only Prometheus had an ounce of 2001's subtlety in its philosophical ruminating, but Scott is no Kubrick and Prometheus is no 2001.

[Arpy 4,145]

I always thought the part where the captain (Idris Elba) ignores the two lost scientists in the cave system was just silly.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The part where Idris' and Theron's characters decide to have just so he'd be away from his post? 

 

Rubbish!

[crumbs 14,318]

Yes, that was nonsensical to the extreme. Any normal person seeing a huge pile-up of dead alien corpses would be suitably intrigued by such a discovery.

 

Instead, he just shrugs it off and walks off. Poor writing.

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Yes, that was nonsensical to the extreme. 

 

For me, in only takes a single moment like this in a movie of this type to undermine everything and render the whole thing useless. 

[KK 3,307]

There was promise to Prometheus, in terms of adding to the mythology of the universe. It was just undermined and overshadowed by the stupidity of the writing.

[A24 4,345]

I wonder if Prometheus would have been a more enjoyable movie if it was directed by Paul W.S. Anderson.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Possibly. The script needed a pulp director.

[Jay 37,372]

Well, I finally saw the trailer

 

After all the negative reactions everywhere, I was expecting it to not be THAT bad... but it was!  Truly looks like a bad movie.  It looks like an 8th entry in a long running slasher franchise, it doesn't look like a interesting new idea being made by a great director.  I don't like the direction the Alien franchise has gone cinematically after the 2nd movie; The Dark Horse Comics took things in a much smarter direction.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Simple stupid writing is what completely rips the film apart for me. Something as simple as them landing on an alien planet, and immediately taking their helmets off because the air appears clean. That would never happen in a scientific expedition.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It breaks the verisimilitude. Completely threw me out of the film.

36 minutes ago, Jay said:

 It looks like an 8th entry in a long running slasher franchise, it doesn't look like a interesting new idea being made by a great director. 

 

Exactly. It just looks like a very expensive slasher. I know it's a teaser trailer so they arent gonna reveal anything of the plot. But nothing in it got me exited.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yet no one had issues with Amy Adams taking off her suit in Arrival?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I havent seen Arrival.

[A24 4,345]

I believe anything if the storytelling is good.

[Jay 37,372]

16 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Yet no one had issues with Amy Adams taking off her suit in Arrival?

 

I don't even remember the Prometheus scenes that brought this up, but the Arrival scene you are talking about made perfect sense.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The Arrival must have been a pretty early film for Amy Adams. I don't remember her being in it.

[Jay 37,372]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

Simple stupid writing is what completely rips the film apart for me. Something as simple as them landing on an alien planet, and immediately taking their helmets off because the air appears clean. That would never happen in a scientific expedition.

 

And that's another reason why the original ALIEN worked so well; They were miners not scientists.  When you change things over to being about scientists, the stupid decisions they made in Prometheus stand out as being even more dumb.

 

I think Ridley's heart was in it for Prometheus, and he had some great visual aesthetics in play, but he for whatever reason didn't wait until the script made more sense before filming.  Either that or it did make sense, they he cut out too much stuff and the final theatrical cut made no sense (I haven't watched the deleted scenes, though I understand the blu ray doesn't even have all the footage that was deleted anyway)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The DVD box said that "Questions Will Be Answered", but I didn't want to go through 36 discs and the Prometheus DVD Companion Guide to find out. So I just rang the number on the box, but the guy said he could only answer questions related to the home entertainment department. I went nowhere with this movie.

[A24 4,345]

The script is not the only thing to blame, Jay. There are lots of movies where the actions and decisions of the characters don't always make sense but if it's told right we tend to turn a blind eye to those things. When a movie is not good we start looking where the problem lies. Trust me, Thor doesn't do that because Prometheus more than satisfied him. Someone took a helmet off? So what?! 

[Jay 37,372]

For me the script is the only thing to blame - and in fact, the script is so unbelievably bad, it ruins the entire movie and makes it a simply bad film.

 

I think the actors were fine, the sets were fine, the special effects were fine, the whole visual style was fine (great, even), the score was fine, but the script - and by that I mean story, plot, and dialogue - was so terrible its just a bad film.

[A24 4,345]

Everything is great but it's a bad film because someone took off his helmet? Ooookay ...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

Well the first guy to take his helmet off was a bit of a loose cannon. We should have seen him do something else crazy beforehand. But he took off his helmet because the instrumentation said the air was safe. That's science. He didn't walk or ride the rover without a helmet, or take it off with the sensors reading danger. He broke protocol because he felt it was safe.

 

Alas, the script needed him to do so anyways to infect others.

 

Had the planet's air been safe from the get go like the planet in Alien, making helmets unnecessary, people would have criticized the unoriginal movie for showing another Earth. 

[Jay 37,372]

1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

Everything is great but it's a bad film because someone took off his helmet? Ooookay ...

 

Huh?  I didn't say anything remotely like that.

 

I don't even remember a helmet scene *shrug*

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Typical Alex post. Just ignore.

[A24 4,345]

 

 

You said you liked everything except the script so that's why it's a bad movie, right? That's the same thing. The helmet is one of the script things. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Huh?  I didn't say anything remotely like that.

 

I don't even remember a helmet scene *shrug*

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He actually said apart from the script everything else was fine. He didnt say he liked everything else. This is how you become confused, Alex.

[A24 4,345]

8 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Typical Alex post. Just ignore.

 

That makes two people who don't get it. Only at JWFan!