Rank The Indiana Jones Films

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

The only wrong thing about that is that it wasn't Lord Laurence Olivier as intended.

 

Is that the guy from Clash of the Titans?

[Groovygoth666 670]

7 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Is that the guy from Clash of the Titans?

Yeah he played Zeus. 

 

For my rankings it's a tie between Raider's and Crusade, Temple is a close second, then Kingdom. I wouldn't rank Dial with any of the others, for all it's faults I enjoyed Kingdom and had fun, there wasn't anything fun about Dial. 

 

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

On 18/06/2018 at 1:28 PM, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

I prefer Tallahassee Johnson.

In terms of manliness, Tallahassee is indeed more manly than Indiana. 

 

On the other hand, Tallahassee Johnson seems more like a Charles Bronson western. Or porn.

[Chen G. 3,949]

8 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

Are you saying Spielberg chose .... poorly? 

No, they wanted Olivier. He turned them down. Would have been a great casting coup!

 

You can see the actor they chose is quite Larry-ish.

[Archive Collection 214]

1. Raiders

2. Crusade

3. Temple

4. Kingdom

5. Dial

 

Enjoy all five of them, love the original trilogy. Kingdom gets the edge over Dial because it has the "Spielberg" touch, even if he's on autopilot throughout.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

8 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

Yeah he played Zeus. 

 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

9 minutes ago, Archive Collection said:

1. Raiders

2. Crusade

3. Temple

4. Kingdom

5. Dial

Exactly my ranking.

[JTN 2,030]

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I guess the audience was expecting another stinker.

And rightfully so, that’s just what they got.
 

 

 

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

I think audiences were just jaded about the concept of an action-adventure film starring an octagenarian. When I told a friend that this film exists, he called it "Indiana Jones and the Calcium Deficit."

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I've seen it and can confirm that's not the case.

[JTN 2,030]

Others who have seen it, too, beg to differ. Just look at the rankings of 95% of the people in this thread. 
DoD has made people appreciate KotCS which was considered easily the weakest of the IJ films, until DoD came along.

11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

When I told a friend that this film exists, he called it "Indiana Jones and the Calcium Deficit."

Indiana Jones and the Dialysis of Destiny

 

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Lets put it this way: when people saw Raiders of the Lost Ark in 1981, they surely knew there'd be sequels.

 

But did any of them imagine that there would be a sequel that would end with an elderly Marion and Jones boinking? When you put it like that, it really does sound like the stuff of farce.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

14 minutes ago, JTW said:

DoD has made people appreciate KotCS which was considered easily the weakest of the IJ films, until DoD came along.

 

This is often the case. ROP certainly made me appreciate The Hobbit a bit more, and I'll admit the ST made me appreciate the PT a bit more (though more that I appreciate what Lucas was trying to do rather than what he actually pulled off).

 

But, aside from JW's score, KOTCS is pretty much unredeemable in my eyes, and I essentially regard Indiana Jones as a loosely-connected trilogy.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Topics, that Indy 5 didn't fail on:

1. Indy's age: Yes he is old, but they made him still a believable action hero.
2. The action scenes: The action is fine. Mangold knows his craft and Indy movies always had it but were not really depending on it.
3. The score: It's the best part of the movie.
4. The plot/McGuffin: That was ok as well in my view. I liked the idea of the dial.
5. The side kick characters / cast: Was alright but not exciting. Mikkelsen is great as always. But Phoebe Waller-Bridge without her funny Fleabag self-irony isn't that enjoyable. 

As I said before. For me the issue was the absence of humor and comedy, which always was the heart and soul of the Indy movies. 

[JTN 2,030]

8 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

For me the issue was the absence of humor and comedy, which always was the heart and soul of the Indy movies. 

And the absence of the two people who were responsible for the sheer existence of Indiana Jones. 
 

8 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Indy's age: Yes he is old, but they made him still a believable action hero.

An 80-year-old man can never be a believable action hero. That’s where this film made the biggest mistake. Indiana Jones the character should never get old, because part of the charm of these stories is a (relatively) young hero who can kick ass and fail, get up again to fight another day. That’s why Lucas made the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, not the Old Indiana Jones Chronicles. It’s like James Bond: he doesn’t really age, and when an actor gets too old, another one comes in to replace him. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

14 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

ROP certainly made me appreciate The Hobbit a bit more, and I'll admit the ST made me appreciate the PT a bit more

 

I must say I don't really have that kind of way of looking at things. I mean, yeah, all qualitative discussion is relative in nature, but if I find a movie good, I just find it good; and if I find it bad, I find it bad.

 

Like, I don't like Attack of the Clones AND I don't like The Rise of Skywalker.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

38 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I must say I don't really have that kind of way of looking at things. I mean, yeah, all qualitative discussion is relative in nature, but if I find a movie good, I just find it good; and if I find it bad, I find it bad.

 

I think this is a nice conceit, and something we tell ourselves...i.e. that we judge every work of art independently, on its own merits...but it's just not true. I mean, we may think we do, but we don't.

 

Everything we make opinions on, up to, including and especially art, is based in part on comparison, and usually in large part. We've been comparing new art we're exposed to with what we've seen before since we were exposed to art, music, television, cinema, etc. as children. We do it whether we're even consciously aware of it or not. We like to think we're judging something solely on its own merits, but we're not. This has been confirmed in study after study.  As you suggest, everything is relative. 

 

Does Rings of Power make The Hobbit a better movie in and of itself? No. But seeing how utterly possible it is to fail so thoroughly when adapting what's broadly speaking the same source material makes me appreciate The Hobbit more. Conversely, and to further The Hobbit example, I think those movies would be better regarded today, if not as the finest fantasy films of all time, except in comparison to the high bar set by Lord of the Rings.

 

(BTW, I'm not slamming The Hobbit here, they're fine movies. It's just to illustrate a point.)

[Chen G. 3,949]

8 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I think this is a nice conceit, and something we tell ourselves...i.e. that we judge every work of art independently, on its own merits...but it's just not true. I mean, we may think we do, but we don't.

 

Of course its all relative! But I've never made up my mind about a film, and then had that changed drastically by having seen another film. That's not to say my opinion about certain films isn't suspectible to change: when I first saw Lawrence of Arabia, I thought the second part basically sank the movie; and while I still think (as did Lean) that its not as good as the first part, I obviously don't think it tanks the movie anymore.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

32 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I must say I don't really have that kind of way of looking at things. I mean, yeah, all qualitative discussion is relative in nature, but if I find a movie good, I just find it good; and if I find it bad, I find it bad.

 

Like, I don't like Attack of the Clones AND I don't like The Rise of Skywalker.

If we like something or not is to a big degree depending on our expectations. Low expectations can make me like a mediocre movie much. High expectations can lead to disappointment of something good. But it can work backwards as well to a certain degree.

Rise of Skywalker made me apprechiate The Last Jedi more.

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

Rise of Skywalker made me apprechiate The Last Jedi more.

 

Me, too. But I always thought it was a good movie, just an obtuse one.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

Well KOTCS certainly made me appreciate quicksand more.

[Schilkeman 964]

Some ageist nonsense going on in this thread, but anyway, here are some things I like about KotCS:

 

The Cold War setting - this time period of American history is fascinating to me. The dial is cranked up a bit on the Rockwell device, but he captures the vibe well

 

Mutt Williams - whatever his personal failings, I’ve always liked Shia the actor. He plays the wannabe punk kid well, and I like the reverse dynamic of Indy now being the dad.

 

Marion Ravenwood - There may have been a lot of Marys, but Indy only has one true love. He finally chooses wisely, and goes off to enjoy the rest of his life. 

 

The Structure - we start in a warehouse and end in the jungles of South America. A nice reverse of the first film.

 

The Cinematography - I know this one’s divisive , but I’ve always loved Kaminski’s work. I think this movie looks great.

 

The Music - I really don’t know why everyone seems so down on this score. The Skull motif and Irina’s Theme are great, Mutt’s theme is clever, and the action writing is as good as ever. 

 

Irina Spalko - she’s a Bond villain, and they didn’t resort to making her a femme fatal. 

The McGuffin - this includes the aliens. I like when they can weave mythology into actual history, which I find lacking in ToD. Where Star Wars is mythology acting as history, Indiana Jones is history acting as mythology. Two sides of the same coin.

 

Is it Art? - I always found a striking similarity between the mushroom cloud and the departing ship. If knowledge is indeed a treasure, maybe we could be putting ours to better use?

 

Action - I like the whole opening in the warehouse, the motorcycle chase (another reverse), the graveyard sequence, the water fall sequence, and most of the jungle chase. The special effects for the bomb sequence, the temple opening, and the departure of the ship are also great.
 

The Little Things - Indy’s face when he hears the countdown start. “Rough couple of years, huh?” Dip the comb in the soda. The unnecessary viciousness of the fight in the diner. “Oh so you’re a teacher” reverse shot. Pointing during the pointing scene. “Bullshit, Pancho Villa?” “Depends on who your god is.” “Help!” “I’m ready. Don’t give these pigs a thing.” The way Marion smiles when Indy says “they weren’t you.” 
 

A Perfect Coda - yes this is a “just one more thing” adventure, but I think it was made by people who realized life doesn’t stop when you turn 40. The adventure continues, and life does not stop giving us things.

 

 

 

[Bellosh 3,419]

here's what I've noticed with Skull and Dial....

 

they've made the discussion about Indy just like Star Wars, where you have to preface which ones you like and which ones are subpar.

 

Before 2008, the 3 Indy movies were in this untouchable, popular culture circle. Genuinely loved and well regarded by fans and average people.  Sure people had their rankings, or maybe a little disdain for Temple of Doom, but not to the level of the other 2.  It's turned into defending Skull, hating Skull....same with Dial.

 

I'm ultimately glad for them because I do consider myself such a huge fan that I like to take away the positives and not worry about the negatives.  Also two scores by John Williams, hell fucking yeah i'll take that!

 

but yeah, just something i've noticed.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

Lots of nonsense going on in this thread, but anyway, here are some things I like about KotCS:

 

The score by John Williams.

 

Here's everything I disliked about KotCS:

 

Everything else.

[Schilkeman 964]

Wow, you’ve convinced me.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

TLC

ROTLA

KOCS

TOD- DOD ( tie)

[JTN 2,030]

On 23/12/2023 at 12:55 PM, Schilkeman said:

 

Some ageist nonsense going on in this thread, but anyway, here are some things I like about KotCS:

 

1. I agree with everything you wrote.

2. Calling an (80-year)old man old isn’t ageist, it’s normal.

[Schilkeman 964]

On 23/12/2023 at 5:09 AM, JTW said:

An 80-year-old man can never be a believable action hero. That’s where this film made the biggest mistake. Indiana Jones the character should never get old

Um. People age. If Harrison Ford can still do the work, then Indiana Jones can still do the work. Your discomfort at seeing old people in action isn’t really the film’s problem.

[Chen G. 3,949]

53 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

If Harrison Ford can still do the work, then Indiana Jones can still do the work.

 

But he can't. The reason characters like Mut Williams and Helena exist is because, Indy now being an older man, you need someone to more believably helm the more outrageous action beats.

[Schilkeman 964]

I don’t know what movie you saw, but I saw Indy swinging from chains, running across rafters, jumping from cars, and getting into fist fights in Crystal Skull, and they all looked plenty believable to me. He had more action beats than Mutt did, for sure.

[Chen G. 3,949]

The truck chase in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is kind of emblematic of this for me: Mutt does all the action, Indy drives the car.

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

The truck chase in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is kind of emblematic of this for me: Mutt does all the action, Indy drives the car.

That was Mutt's big scene to show off! He was otherwise pretty inactive as I recall. And that fencing action was so over-the-top that I couldn't even believe a young man doing it!
 

On the other hand, I wholeheartedly agree that Helena was there to do the more active stuff, like jumping between buildings in heels. lol

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

1. Raiders of the Lost Ark
2. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
3. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
4. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
5. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

Diminishing returns indeed.

[JTN 2,030]

10 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Um. People age. If Harrison Ford can still do the work, then Indiana Jones can still do the work. Your discomfort at seeing old people in action isn’t really the film’s problem.

Calling people who call old people old, ageist, is a bigger problem. 

Getting old and people at 80+ acting like it, is completely normal, it's the way of life. People get old and eventually die. Pretending that an 80-year-old action adventurer character can and should do things that a young person hardly can, is another problem. The problem of denying the hard facts of life. 

 

Besides, Harrison Ford couldn't do the work. He got injured on set and the shooting had to be shot down for weeks until he recovered. But regardless of his injury, he had a stunt double (both real and digital) in basically every scene that he wasn't talking. And he was digitally de-aged for a portion of the film. So he obviously wasn't capable of doing what the filmmakers wanted the audience to believe he could. Btw he couldn't do it in Raiders and all the other films, either, because not even young people can do all those stunts in real life, but at least the illusion was better back then because HF was a much younger person and could do a lot more than he could now. And he got injured during the making of those films, too, the most serious being when he suffered a spinal injury during the filming of ToD. 

 

The fact is, people didn't want to see an old (objectively old) Indiana Jones, not because they hate old people, but because they didn't want to see their childhood hero as a broken, sad old man deconstructed, having lost his son, getting lectured and even knocked out by his own goddaughter. 

Because that's not why people have loved Indiana Jones for decades. They watch the first three films to see the amazing adventures of a young and strong, larger than life man, who loves danger, loves women, loves adventures, loves life. People want go away from their problems, not to see their fictional hero suffering from the same problems they have, being weak and broken. They want fun and a thrill ride, an ideal, a role model that makes them believe that if they have a strong enough will and determination, they can achieve anything.

It's why people like superheroes. Because they are bigger, stronger, more muscular and better looking than them and can kick the bad guy's ass. That's why people love movie stars. They don't want to give their hard earned money to see an old, bitter person who reminds them of themselves and their problems. And what they want, can never be made again, that is why the original three films are so valuable. And that is why they're rewatched over and over again, for years to come, because it will always give people the same exact POSITIVE emotions that they so need.

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

While they acknowledged Indy's aging a bit in KOTCS, it simply couldn't be denied in DOD, so they had to go the route that this was a man way past his prime. Who wants to see a hero past his prime, and not only that, but spiritually broken? Pretty much nobody, except the fans who were just happy to see Indy don the fedora again under, apparently, any circumstances.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

But regardless of his injury, he had a stunt double (both real and digital) in basically every scene that he wasn't talking.

 

That's an exaggeration, based, I guess, on not seeing the film.

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

That's an exaggeration, based, I guess, on not seeing the film.

@Jurassic Shark I love that you're a tirelessly optimistic supporter of this film, no matter what we, the naysayers, say! But you'll see... We'll change your mind yet! 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

At lest I've seen the film I'm defending.

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

I'll agree with that. You should at least have seen the film you're lambasting. And unfortunately, I have.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

On 23/12/2023 at 10:53 AM, Chen G. said:

Lets put it this way: when people saw Raiders of the Lost Ark in 1981, they surely knew there'd be sequels.

 

But did any of them imagine that there would be a sequel that would end with an elderly Marion and Jones boinking? When you put it like that, it really does sound like the stuff of farce.

 

You'll be lucky if you get to boink at 80.

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

I don't know if they "boinked." They just kissed areas that didn't hurt.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Oh I know an area that didn’t hurt...

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Oh I know an area that didn’t hurt...

Because there's no feeling left in it?

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 minute ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Because there's no feeling left in it?

 

Speak for yourself...

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Speak for yourself...

I will, in about 30 years...

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Just now, Mr. Hooper said:

I will, in about 30 years...

 

It's not the age...

[Chen G. 3,949]

14 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It's not the age...

it’s the mileage on the ruler! 🤣

[Richard Penna 3,694]

18 hours ago, JTW said:

The fact is, people didn't want to see an old (objectively old) Indiana Jones, not because they hate old people, but because they didn't want to see their childhood hero as a broken, sad old man deconstructed, having lost his son, getting lectured and even knocked out by his own goddaughter. 

Because that's not why people have loved Indiana Jones for decades.

 

That's why in theory the best thing would be to either not make this film (money has other ideas) or to pass the franchise much like Bond does, to another actor who can do all the physical stuff to the extent Ford could in the first three.

 

But then you get the trolls of the internet with their pitchforks because their beloved hero, franchise and brand has been ruined by casting someone else (and it sounds to me that a lot of the 'woke' accusations were purely down to the mere rumour of suggesting a female as a successor). I thought KotCS was a pile of shit but it doesn't make the sunset ending of Crusade any less definitive on its own terms.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

A movie with an 80-year-old Indiana Jones makes about as much sense as a Home Alone movie with a 45-year-old Kevin McCallister. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I think you're Wrong.