Star Trek is better than everything

[Jay 37,369]

13 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

That game also had an awesome Chad Seiter score, so it wasn't a total loss lol...

 

Yavar

 

Amazing score, so frustrating it never got a commercial release, and that the people with the promo refuse to share it with fans

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

There was a promo?

[Jay 37,369]

Yep.

 

Seiter put some tracks from it on his Soundcloud,  but the whole thing cannot be heard by us normies

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

I'm pretty sure what I acquired was a game rip (taken from the actual game files somehow), not a promo. I was under the impression that it had made the rounds a decade ago.

 

Yavar

[Jay 37,369]

Right, the game was ripped easily enough and that's one way to listen to the score.  I've just always been curious to hear how Seiter arranged it into an album configuration.  The various tracks he put up on soundcloud are nicer sounding than the raw gamerip files

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Ah, got it. Yes, it would be great to have an actual produced-and-mastered album for this excellent score (which I actually prefer to any in Giacchino's trilogy...Seiter uses his theme in more interesting ways). I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the game rip omitted some music that was recorded.

 

Yavar

[Jay 37,369]

@Yavar Moradi I forgot that Chad himself posted this here on JWFan:

 

On 11/05/2013 at 3:07 AM, chadseiter said:

I have put together a CD and mastered it. It sounds great and I'm INCREDIBLY proud of it. Unfortunately I don't think it's going to see release.

Looks like I'm just going to have to do better next time.

 

I'm sure @Erik Woods has this.

[Tallguy 3,398]

I have never heard a note of this!

[Jay 37,369]

Chad took it off his soundcloud long ago, but 5 of the tracks from the album are on youtube unofficially

1. Brains and Brawn
2. The Gorn Identity
3. Helios One
4. Sun Flares
5. T'Mar is Kidnapped

[Erik Woods 555]

On 08/03/2024 at 3:50 PM, Jay said:

@Yavar Moradi I forgot that Chad himself posted this here on JWFan:

 

 

I'm sure @Erik Woods has this.

I do but I'm away from my house for the next week, so I can't recall the tracklisting for you.

 

On 08/03/2024 at 4:08 PM, Tallguy said:

I have never heard a note of this!

 

You should really tune into my show sometime. You'll find a ton of goodies there.  

 

https://www.cinematicsound.net/ep-21-star-trek-50th-anniversary/

[Jay 37,369]

‘Starfleet Academy’ May Not Arrive Until 2026; Alex Kurtzman Talks Bringing In New Star Trek Fans

[Tallguy 3,398]

On 11/03/2024 at 8:58 PM, Erik Woods said:

You should really tune into my show sometime. You'll find a ton of goodies there.  

 

https://www.cinematicsound.net/ep-21-star-trek-50th-anniversary/

 

I MAY have heard that when it aired. Unless there was another "music of Star Trek" where the host was raving about Stealing the Enterprise.

 

That video game music is quite good, isn't it?

[Jay 37,369]

The Future of ‘Star Trek’: From ‘Starfleet Academy’ to New Movies and Michelle Yeoh, How the 58-Year-Old Franchise Is Planning for the Next Generation of Fans

[Tallguy 3,398]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

The Future of ‘Star Trek’: From ‘Starfleet Academy’ to New Movies and Michelle Yeoh, How the 58-Year-Old Franchise Is Planning for the Next Generation of Fans

 

Nice painting. But you notice everyone gets to be heroic and dramatic except Shatner? We have to use "KHAAAAAAAAN!" OTOH, he is in it a LOT. TOS Shatner is in it three times by my count. Tribbles, Gorn, Headshot. I don't think any other actor gets multiple pics from the same show. Whoops. Quinto is in there twice.

 

But damn! That's pretty complete, isn't it? They have animated AND live action Lower Decks.

 

I do love how all the leads with the biggest heads are bunched up at the top but they gave Nimoy his own place.

 

No Saavik? Either of them?

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

Kirk shouting "KHAN!" is an odd choice. And Data's skin tone is looking unusually healthy. lol

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

9 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Kirk shouting "KHAN!" is an odd choice. And Data's skin tone is looking unusually healthy. lol

 

It is a slightly odd choice I would agree, kinda feels like he should be the one man-spreading in the Captain's chair rather than the Anson Mount's Pike. Is it me or is Georgiou oddly prominent? A nice lot of Spocks though and they really do look like they could all be the same person. I assume Travis and Malcolm are posing for their prom date... although surely that should be Chief O'Brien and Dr Bashir. Speaking of which, I cannot for the life of me see the good Doctor. If someone could point him out, that would be great. Anyone else obviously missing?

[Dave 217]

I don't see Trip, T'Pol, Hoshi, Phlox, Harry Kim, Tom Paris, The Doctor, Chakotay, Neelix & Kes.

 

But the 7 Kirks easely make up for that

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Is it me or is Georgiou oddly prominent?

She is the star of the new movie, so that's probably why.

 

It is a weird selection of faces and even weirder choice of positioning for those faces... and why is Zoë Saldaña almost white?

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

The clowns running what's called "Star Trek" now hate Shatner, to the point where they've completely left his Kirk out of promotional material...something that hasn't gone unnoticed by Bill.

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The clowns running what's called "Star Trek" now hate Shatner...

It would appear that way... Don't want to promote a "toxic" alpha male and womanizer like Kirk. lol

Now someone will say: "Hey, he's been given a place of prominence in this latest image!"

 

Well yes, but it doesn't show him in his finest moment...

 

Deliberate? You be the judge!

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

3 hours ago, Dave said:

I don't see Trip, T'Pol, Hoshi, Phlox, Harry Kim, Tom Paris, The Doctor, Chakotay, Neelix & Kes.

 

But the 7 Kirks easily make up for that

I clearly hadn't looked that carefully, but surprising to miss so many characters from older shows yet repeat some a slightly unnecessary number of times.

 

3 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

She is the star of the new movie, so that's probably why.

Makes sense, but she's basically one of the five most prominent (Pine - Kirk, Nimoy and Quinto Spocks, and TWOK Kirk)... making her even more prominent than Picard.

 

3 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The clowns running what's called "Star Trek" now hate Shatner, to the point where they've completely left his Kirk out of promotional material...something that hasn't gone unnoticed by Bill.

 

 

It's a bit depressing. Sure, things have moved on and his actions (as a character) to stand up as well as Picard's, but they were still pretty thoughtful for their time. The pleasingly daft song Star Trekkin' might have had the line "we come in peace, shoot to kill" but in reality, Kirk was probably far more thoughtful and rounded than other leading male characters on action/adventure shows of the era. Plus the films effectively show him growing old, which was probably a relatively risky move in hindsight (although they didn't make his latter years as depressing as is often the case these days). I know Shatner has his issues, but he's hardly the most egregious star out there.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Makes sense, but she's basically one of the five most prominent (Pine - Kirk, Nimoy and Quinto Spocks, and TWOK Kirk)... making her even more prominent than Picard.

 

Quinto Spock is actually pretty small in this. This is current Discovery/SNW Spock who's as big as Nimoy's.

 

Yavar

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

41 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Quinto Spock is actually pretty small in this. This is current Discovery/SNW Spock who's as big as Nimoy's.

 

Yavar

Oh yes of course it’s the excellent Ethan Peck. My bad. But my point stands than Michelle Yeoh is somehow the same size as them despite not (yet) being quite an icon of the franchise as at least a dozen others who are far smaller on this montage. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Yeah but she is a recent Best Actress Oscar winner, so...

 

Yavar

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Quinto Spock is actually pretty small in this. This is current Discovery/SNW Spock who's as big as Nimoy's.

 

Yavar

 

I actually prefer Peck to Quinto, the latter of whom played Spock like a thinly veiled psychotic who always seemed seconds away from a murderous rampage. It was like the producers handed him some Star Trek episodes to prepare for the role, he watched Amok Time and said “I’ll go with this”.

[Andy 4,138]

Both are excellent.
 

Your description of Quinto isn’t inaccurate, but it served the story and cinematic storytelling pace. 
 

Peck is ultimately more endearing and suitable for the long form narrative of episodic television. 

 

Ultimately, I’d probably tip the scale in favor of Peck, but he’s had the advantage of more screen time, and stories that allow him to show more of Spock’s charming character facets. 
 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

Peck is good in the role, not great. The only re-casting of iconic characters I think they mostly nailed were Pine as Kirk (Wesley is unwatchable) and Urban as McCoy. All of the others, whether Abrams or NuTrek, are unrecognizable as the characters they're meant to be playing. And I'm not talking about imitating mannerisms...they're just completely different characters who only share a name and rank with the original.

[Tallguy 3,398]

58 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Wesley is unwatchable

 

I adored him in season 2.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

6 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Peck is good in the role, not great. The only re-casting of iconic characters I think they mostly nailed were Pine as Kirk (Wesley is unwatchable) and Urban as McCoy. All of the others, whether Abrams or NuTrek, are unrecognizable as the characters they're meant to be playing. And I'm not talking about imitating mannerisms...they're just completely different characters who only share a name and rank with the original.

I really like Peck and have to admit that I've not seen the Kelvinverse movies for a while, although I do remember thinking right back from when he shot fame in Heroes that Quinto would be a great Spock, even if only physically. Totally agreed about Karl Urban though, he's great as Bones.

 

Neither of the other actors who've taken on Kirk really made me think of the character as played by William Shatner. I wonder if Shatner was too idiosyncratic to be able to emulate/homage/reference without falling into parody, so those who have played Kirk have ironed a lot of that out being "better" actors but losing some of the fundamental character of Kirk in the process. Then again, I never massively liked the way Chris Pine's Kirk was written, they push him over from enterprising young man (as it were) to just being a bit of a dick far too much.

 

I can't help but feel that the other characters were so thinly etched in the original series that they feel like different characters because they've been given more to do and say than they ever did. Celia Rose Gooding probably gets more to do/say as Uhura in one episode of SNW than a whole season of TOS. On that basis, it's hardly surprising that the character is going to feel quite different when she's doing more than saying "hailing frequencies open Captain". The older Uhura of the movies is obviously going to be quite different at that stage given the relatively age and point in her career.

[Tallguy 3,398]

These are becoming quite the Rorschach test these days.

There was a flap over last year's Star Trek Day banners because they didn't include Shatner. The reasons for leaving him out aren't totally out of whack, IMHO. If you're picking one person to represent TOS and you have the choice of Kirk OR Spock then you definitely go with Spock. Shatner's Kirk is a legend. Nimoy's Spock is an icon. IIRC some banners got rid of Shatner, Nimoy, AND Mount, going with Peck for Spock taking the SNW spot and Uhura taking over for TOS.

 

It's not about erasing Shatner's Kirk for being "problematic" but it is about marketing the current shows and "balancing" the demographics.

So now we have this poster from Variety. There are 84 representation of various characters. 57 characters total. Well. Shatner (not Kirk, SHATNER) appears FIVE TIMES.

Patrick Stewart appears three times (once as Locutus). Leonard Nimoy, Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Brent Spiner, LeVar Burton, Jonathan Frakes, and Michael Dorn all appear twice. Kate Mulgrew, Jack Quaid, and Tawny Newsome appear in live action and animated.

Characterwise, Kirk appears EIGHT times. Spock five. Uhura three. Sulu three. (Every Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Sulu, and Uhura are here. But only one Chekov!). Picard has three. Boimler, Data, Janeway, Khan, LaForge, Mariner, McCoy, Riker, Scott, and Worf all appear twice.

As for shows, TOS gets 18, 11 from the movies. TNG gets 13, 5 from the movies, with an additional 6 from Picard. JJ-Trek gets 14! . Prodigy gets 7! SNW gets 6. (Unless we count live action Boimler and Mariner as LDS then it gets 4.) Lower Decks gets 5. (Or 7!) DS9 gets 5. Discovery might have Burnham and Oscar Winning Actress and Future Star of Section 31 Michelle Yeoh big and prominent but the show only gets 3 characters. (Booker over Saru? Are they insane?) And Voyager and Enterprise each get 3.

Of the cast from the opening credits of each show we are missing: TOS Chekov(!), Beverly Crusher (but we got Jack for some reason), and Deanna Troi from TNG. Dax (either one), Bashir, and Jake Sisko from DS9. Chakotay, Torres, Paris, Kes, Neelix, The Doctor, and Kim from VOY. T'Pol, Phlox, Sato, and Tucker from ENT. Saru, Tyler, Stamets, Tilly, Lorca, and Culber from Disco. Chapel, La'an, Ortegas, M'Benga, and Hemmer from SNW. (They have the tertiary race of servants from Star Trek: Insurrection, but not Saru or Phlox?)

You know, I still haven't read the article.

[Andy 4,138]

I haven’t either.  And I adore Star Trek. I just like to take each show as it comes. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

21 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

It's a bit depressing. Sure, things have moved on and his actions (as a character) to stand up as well as Picard's, but they were still pretty thoughtful for their time. The pleasingly daft song Star Trekkin' might have had the line "we come in peace, shoot to kill" but in reality, Kirk was probably far more thoughtful and rounded than other leading male characters on action/adventure shows of the era. Plus the films effectively show him growing old, which was probably a relatively risky move in hindsight (although they didn't make his latter years as depressing as is often the case these days). I know Shatner has his issues, but he's hardly the most egregious star out there.

 

Shatner's Kirk is probably one of the most unfairly maligned characters in pop culture history, and subject to some seriously distorted historical revisionism. He's hardly the sexist, "shoot first ask questions" later misogynistic dinosaur he's made out to be. Those traits, while there to a certain extent, have been vastly blown out of proportion. Kirk is actually an incredibly thoughtful leader who almost always sought out a diplomatic solution first. 

 

Your point about how well Kirk's ageing was handled is something I hadn't considered before, and it's a very good one.

 

6 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I can't help but feel that the other characters were so thinly etched in the original series that they feel like different characters because they've been given more to do and say than they ever did

 

Well, that's true enough. And clearly they're trying to update the characters for "modern audiences". But when you're creating what's essentially an entirely new character and simply slapping the old name and rank on them, why not just create new characters altogether? For a show about the future, NuTrek does a lot of looking back. 

3 hours ago, Tallguy said:

It's not about erasing Shatner's Kirk for being "problematic" but it is about marketing the current shows and "balancing" the demographics.

 

No, I'm pretty sure it's about erasing Shatner. You simply cannot rationalize minimizing James T. f*cking Kirk in Star Trek. Especially given that every other significant Trek captain is featured in that poster. I mean…you can have Archer and not Kirk? Do newer Trek fans even know who Archer is? Give me a break. Your point about Spock being iconic is well taken, but Kirk’s an icon as well, so why not have both? There are two TNG characters after all. How is Geordi more iconic than Kirk? They don’t like Shatner. He’s said so himself.

 

And if the purpose of the poster is to “balance the demographics” rather than featuring Star Trek’s iconic characters and history…well then, you’ve summed up NuTreks priorities, and problems, nicely.

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

Definition of First World problem: Arguing over the omission or placement, size, etc. of a character in a publicity image. 

 

 

 

[Andy 4,138]

I’m more bothered by that 80s denim jacket Picard is sporting.  He just needs to load it up with AC/DC buttons and Def Leppard pins. 

[Tallguy 3,398]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Shatner's Kirk is probably one of the most unfairly maligned characters in pop culture history, and subject to some seriously distorted historical revisionism. He's hardly the sexist, "shoot first ask questions" later misogynistic dinosaur he's made out to be. Those traits, while there to a certain extent, have been vastly blown out of proportion. Kirk is actually an incredibly thoughtful leader who almost always sought out a diplomatic solution first. 

 

This is absolutely true. I think a lot of this comes from Wrath of Khan and Eddie Murphy. The most refreshing thing about SNW's Kirk is that they realize that being SMART is a big part of the character. (Well, in season 2 they did anyway.)

 

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I mean…you can have Archer and not Kirk?

 

It's Enterprise. Who else would they have put? The only person anyone would have heard of is Scott Bakula. With TOS you have a choice of legends for different reasons.

 

Looking at the series widgets on Paramount+ TNG, VOY, ENT, and Disco have Captains. TAS, SNW, and LDS have crews. TOS and DS9 just have the ships.

 

Really. Kirk and Spock. Picard and Data. Sisko and Kira. Janeway and Seven. Archer and T'Pol. Burnham and Saru. Pike and Spock. (Or Pike and Number One.) Mariner and Boimler. IS THAT SO HARD?!?

 

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

And if the purpose of the poster is to “balance the demographics” rather than featuring Star Trek’s iconic characters and history…well then, you’ve summed up NuTreks priorities, and problems, nicely.

 

If you want to tell me that the marketing department had put together an ALL KIRK, ALL THE TIME poster but then the Disco / SNW showrunners came in and said "Hey, hey, hey now. Kirk? Seriously? We need to back all the way off of that right now." then I'll put the blame at the feet of nuTrek. Otherwise it's just the marketing dweebs.

 

nuTrek not only brought back the proto Star Trek captain, but they also brought back Jimmy T.

 

26 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Definition of First World problem: Arguing over the omission or placement, size, etc. of a character in a publicity image. 

 

Great Bird, yes! I'm embarrassed for my own self!

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

18 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Definition of First World problem: Arguing over the omission or placement, size, etc. of a character in a publicity image. 

 

 

 

Well, sure. But so is everything that goes on here, from conspiracies on the spelling of Palpatine’s name to arguing the whether Superman wears underwear. And how many people outside the first world count their biggest problem to be missing cues from Mr. Mom?
 

They're all first world problems. I mean, everything else has been banned!
 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

15 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

They're all first world problems.

Yes, and I'm usually among the first to line up and complain about them. 

[Tallguy 3,398]

I've got this going through my head for some reason.

 

 

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

 

This set off a bunch of tweets about Balance of Terror so I decided to rewatch it and it's just so good, I forgot how different TOS is from TNG, somehow, TOS has a faster pacing. And this episode is a great refutal of the "mainstream-Kirk", it's surprising how widespread that concept of the character is.

[Tallguy 3,398]

23 minutes ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

 

This set off a bunch of tweets about Balance of Terror so I decided to rewatch it and it's just so good, I forgot how different TOS is from TNG, somehow, TOS has a faster pacing.

 

Ah. It took me some time to see if "wtf are you kidding me" came out as positive or negative. (Positive, apparently.) Sometimes when I'm navel gazing and thinking "How would I make the Animated Series into live action?" I realize the I would know what the sets would look like, I'd know how the actors would act. But I would be utterly out of my depth with the cinematography.

 

Balance of Terror stands apart a little bit even in first season TOS. It's very moody. This was a great quote from X: "Early TOS was like noir in color."

 

25 minutes ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

And this episode is a great refutal of the "mainstream-Kirk", it's surprising how widespread that concept of the character is.

 

Oh heavens, yes. I love SNW. It's my second favorite Star Trek. But when they went back to Balance of Terror they went with the common conception of "Kirk is a cowboy who shoots from the hip". (I have since come to adore Paul Wesley in other episodes.) HOW can you do that Kirk in the very episode that has him going full Hamlet with Bones? "What if I'm wrong?" He's never a cowboy. Although he does decide that the Romulan vessel has to be stopped.

 

I always say that the two sides of the Star Trek coin are Balance of Terror and The Corbomite Maneuver. Or put another way The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

7 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Balance of Terror stands apart a little bit even in first season TOS. It's very moody. This was a great quote from X: "Early TOS was like noir in color."

 

So is early TNG, at times!

 

Rob Bowman in particular did a lot of cool angles and dramatic lighting, as director.

 

Oftentimes the writing in early TNG is very hit-or-miss, but the directing was actually far more interesting/striking than when the show "got good" (it become more homogenous and didn't swing for the fences directorially, as much).

 

Yavar

[Pellaeon 593]

9 hours ago, Tallguy said:

I always say that the two sides of the Star Trek coin are Balance of Terror and The Corbomite Maneuver. Or put another way The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

 

I love that! Yeah, those two episodes are the ones to beat.

 

“Mirror, Mirror” with the iso sound track is amazing, too, though. You can find it on the Roddenberry Vault.

[Tallguy 3,398]

14 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

 

I love that! Yeah, those two episodes are the ones to beat.

 

“Mirror, Mirror” with the iso sound track is amazing, too, though. You can find it on the Roddenberry Vault.

 

I really do need to get that.

[Andy 4,138]

5 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

So is early TNG, at times!

 

Rob Bowman in particular did a lot of cool angles and dramatic lighting, as director.

 

Oftentimes the writing in early TNG is very hit-or-miss, but the directing was actually far more interesting/striking than when the show "got good" (it become more homogenous and didn't swing for the fences directorially, as much).

 

Yavar

I couldn’t agree more. 
 

Probably was a combination of shots being more expensive and time consuming to set up and a desire to streamline the process for efficiency, cost, and comfort of the crew and actors.  They found their safe groove, but in some ways it got boring. 
 

I actually really enjoy the early TNG seasons for the reasons you mentioned and for the livelier scoring as well. 

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

Watched The Face of the Enemy (they will stop giving Diana plots that contain abuse, right?), got to the credits, and saw "Music by Don Davis" and gasped, then I remembered that I already knew this, but the scores in TNG are not really catching my attention as much as TOS did, there's nothing since they stopped using the fanfare that I remember...

 

I'm sure it's good, and I'd love to listen on its own, any recommendations?

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

52 minutes ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

Watched The Face of the Enemy (they will stop giving Diana plots that contain abuse, right?), got to the credits, and saw "Music by Don Davis" and gasped, then I remembered that I already knew this, but the scores in TNG are not really catching my attention as much as TOS did, there's nothing since they stopped using the fanfare that I remember...

 

Honestly the first couple seasons of TNG have the best music. I even think Ron Jones's "Q Who?" > "Best of Both Worlds" in some ways, and that's definitely the high water mark of seasons 3 & 4, which have the next best music after the first two seasons... Chattaway's first score "Tin Man" is excellent and Ron Jones was still giving his all... but to be honest Dennis McCarthy was at his best by far in season 1 with scores like "Arsenal of Freedom". Screen Archives has that complete score in stock but alas I'm not finding any sound clips anywhere: 

https://www1.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/26712/STAR-TREK-THE-NEXT-GENERATION-ENCOUNTER-AT-FARPOINT-THE-ARSENAL-OF-FREEDOM-EXPANDED-EDITION/

 

I find the Don Davis score less memorable but it's on La-La Land's TNG Vol. 1 set, complete. Unfortunately I've checked around and that 3CD set seems to be going for $280 or more. Maybe keep an eye on Ebay if you liked the score.

 

Yavar

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

"Andromeda, be a pet and get me some tea..."

 

 

[Andy 4,138]

Andromeda was more than patient with his frivolous overuse of the transporter.  I expected her to get up and say “Bollocks! Materialize them yourself, wanker!”

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

2 hours ago, Andy said:

Andromeda was more than patient with his frivolous overuse of the transporter.  I expected her to get up and say “Bollocks! Materialize them yourself, wanker!”

I dunno... She seemed pretty comfortable sitting on the control panel. lol

[Andy 4,138]

“Comfortable”  Yeah, let’s go with that.