Jerry's synths - wadda ya think?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Those synthesisers seem to have many friends and foes. But one of their biggest friends was Jerry Goldsmith, who seemed to enjoy sneaking them into all of his post-70s scores in one way or another.

I'm not sure if he was conforming the the wider 80's sound that flourished during that era or he just liked the sounds they made. Often when used appropriately, they could colour the audience's perception of what was on screen.

Goldsmith had a wide variety of applications for synths. Most appropriately they could be used to emphasise the presence of technology, computers and robotics in a film, like Runaway or Innerspace. Or they could be use to denote the presence of sinister spirits, like Poltergeist II. Then of course there's its thematic association with magic, goblins and monsters like in Twilight Zone: The Movie, Supergirl, Legend and Gremlins. And even more bizarre is prominent synth soundscape of Lionheart, where its mixture with traditional orchestral elements works beautifully.

The list goes on.

Although Goldsmith would tone down his use of synths in the 1990s, his affection for that particular 80s synthy sound never went away. Listen to Star Trek Nemesis and Timeline for further proof.

Goldsmith liked using synthesisers to emphasise certain thematic ideas, which often drew attention to it, for better or worse. But composers these days seem to feel more comfortable at using synths as orchestral padding or even completely substituting for an orchestra. So their applications aren't what they used to be.

So what do you think of Goldsmith's synth fetish? Love it? Hate it? Ambivalent?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Love it. He did it better than anyone else.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I'm in the "love it" camp. I especially love the "farting synths" that he used. They're so goofy that I can't help but love them.

[King Mark 3,631]

In some cases, I liked it. Like in the STTMP main theme ( used only in this version)

But sometimes he went overboard (the Woosh sounds in Supergirl theme), or Gremlins 2

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Hit or miss.

[KK 3,307]

Hit or miss.

This.

Sometimes brilliant, other times not so much.

[publicist 4,643]

A lot of them were goofy even when they were new: EXTREME PREJUDICE is a very good score that is totally ruined by all the bleeping and blurping.

Goldsmith said in an interview he gave at the Henry Mancini Institute, rather honestly, that it often happened to him that he considered something great or even brilliant and 6 months later he scratched his head because it sucked so bad. I think that's the case with a lot of the 80's and (less frequently) 90's synth patches he used. It stands to reason that certain scores like INNERSPACE seem really sophisticated electronically while other sound like cheap tv scores (Rent-a-Cop).

Also aesthetically it is hard to jusify why i. e. the 'pure' rainforest in MEDICINE MAN got the same electronically manipulated sounds as the evil forest burners.

[Incanus 5,714]

Hit or miss.

Yup. Very much. Sometimes a great distinct asset to a score, sometimes an annoying inconvenience.

[Jilal 569]

Hit or miss.

Yup. Very much. Sometimes a great distinct asset to a score, sometimes an annoying inconvenience.

Ditto for me. I can't help but think I'd like some of his scores a lot more without their synth writing.

[Uni 306]

Hit or miss.

This.

Sometimes brilliant, other times not so much.

Yep. When it worked, it worked well. When it didn't . . . well, there y'go.

It stands to reason that certain scores like INNERSPACE seem really sophisticated electronically while other sound like cheap tv scores (Rent-a-Cop).

Stands to perfect reason.

Also aesthetically it is hard to jusify why i. e. the 'pure' rainforest in MEDICINE MAN got the same electronically manipulated sounds as the evil forest burners.

This was always what nagged at me about his synth work: using it in a pre-electronic setting too often spoiled the ambiance. I would've thought such a knowledgeable and talented composer would've thought of things like that. What's really puzzling is that he would just frequently eschew the obvious synthetic approach in scores where it would've been appropriate—i.e., sci-fi films like Alien (not that I object, since his use of exotic instruments made for a much more organic sound).

Ultimately, synth is (or should be) like seasoning: using a bit of it here and there brings a nice flavor to a film score. Jerry had a habit of going a little crazy with the spices sometimes. And then you had scores like Runaway, which was like eating spoonfuls of sriracha.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

HIt or miss... although much more often hit. At best, Goldsmith's blend of orchestra and electronics was masterful and worked perfectly. At worst, it was goofy, but very rarely did it hurt the overall music, and in most cases it stopped bothering me after a while, once I'd gotten used to it. The most annoying synths were, in my opinion, when he simply used them instead of "traditional" instruments, either without a noticeable benefit (Lionheart) or with an intentional goofiness that went over the top (the Mrs Beagle music in Gremlins).

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

80% Hit

20% Miss

100% Good for the world of music

This was always what nagged at me about his synth work: using it in a pre-electronic setting too often spoiled the ambiance. I would've thought such a knowledgeable and talented composer would've thought of things like that.

Illogical argument. Most of the orchestra didn't come about until around the 16th century. These are comparatively sophisticated instruments that took a very long time to develop. The first electric synthetic instruments go back to the late 19th century.

Even if cellos and basses and bassoons were 2,000 year old instruments, the style of music composers Goldsmith wrote in would probably be most apropo in a tiny 200-year window of history.

Thus everything else is irrational opinion.

[Jilal 569]

We do disassociate electronic music a lot more with pre-electronic settings than we disassociate the orchestra with pre-orchestral settings.

[Uni 306]

80% Hit

20% Miss

100% Good for the world of music

This was always what nagged at me about his synth work: using it in a pre-electronic setting too often spoiled the ambiance. I would've thought such a knowledgeable and talented composer would've thought of things like that.

Illogical argument. Most of the orchestra didn't come about until around the 16th century. These are comparatively sophisticated instruments that took a very long time to develop. The first electric synthetic instruments go back to the late 19th century.

Even if cellos and basses and bassoons were 2,000 year old instruments, the style of music composers Goldsmith wrote in would probably be most apropo in a tiny 200-year window of history.

Thus everything else is irrational opinion.

Actually . . . it's perfectly logical. Interpretation of tone and its source is a perspective-based impression. Most people who watch movies or listen to music like this don't know the history of every instrument in an orchestra down to the year of its inception, any more than they know when the first synthetic music was created. What they know is that electronic music sounds like a product of the contemporary age, whereas standard orchestral instrumentation sounds much older, and is habitually associated with a more ancient time. It may be irrational, and it's entirely opinion, but that's the definition of ambiance—the mood, the emotionally qualitative character, of a milieu.

[Andy 4,127]

I can't imagine Gremlins without them. Twilight Zone uses them to absolute perfection.

I can however imagine Supergirl without them, and it sounds a lot like King Solomon's Mines, which I consider a rare treat of synth-free orchestra in an era when Jerry was in love with Synth. Lovely.

There's a moment in Hoosiers in the Final Game where the synth suddenly drops out and the orchestra handles 90% of the action and it's glorious, if only for the contrast.

I think it works best like Special Effects ... When you don't notice the synth as such, or when they're integrated so well with traditional instruments, that it feels natural (like Stan Winston's animatronics with the cgi Dinos in JP).

I love Uni's seasoning analogy.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

80% Hit

20% Miss

100% Good for the world of music

This was always what nagged at me about his synth work: using it in a pre-electronic setting too often spoiled the ambiance. I would've thought such a knowledgeable and talented composer would've thought of things like that.

Illogical argument. Most of the orchestra didn't come about until around the 16th century. These are comparatively sophisticated instruments that took a very long time to develop. The first electric synthetic instruments go back to the late 19th century.

Even if cellos and basses and bassoons were 2,000 year old instruments, the style of music composers Goldsmith wrote in would probably be most apropo in a tiny 200-year window of history.

Thus everything else is irrational opinion.

Actually . . . it's perfectly logical. Interpretation of tone and its source is a perspective-based impression. Most people who watch movies or listen to music like this don't know the history of every instrument in an orchestra down to the year of its inception, any more than they know when the first synthetic music was created. What they know is that electronic music sounds like a product of the contemporary age, whereas standard orchestral instrumentation sounds much older, and is habitually associated with a more ancient time. It may be irrational, and it's entirely opinion, but that's the definition of ambiancethe mood, the emotionally qualitative character, of a milieu.

Thou art stuck in the 90s. Most people today don't seem to mind. Three record-breaking Pirates films should be evidence enough!

[A24 4,333]

I don't know most of his scores but I would say a 100% hit!

[Uni 306]

Thou art stuck in the 90s. Most people today don't seem to mind. Three record-breaking Pirates films should be evidence enough!

I art not!

Things do seem a bit different today. Hans & Co. have warmed people up to the sound. But we're talking about Goldsmith in the age of Goldsmith, especially during the renaissance of orchestral scores (which are fading a bit these days).

[publicist 4,643]

People didn't object to LADYHAWKE back then (which was horrendous) so i don't see anyone raising an eyebrow because of some tame synth doubling in LIONHEART.

[A24 4,333]

People didn't object to LADYHAWKE back then ...

What?!

[publicist 4,643]

Curiously enough, hardly a review mentions the score.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Explorers has some of the best Goldsmith synths. What a jewel it is.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Thou art stuck in the 90s. Most people today don't seem to mind. Three record-breaking Pirates films should be evidence enough!

I art not!

Things do seem a bit different today. Hans & Co. have warmed people up to the sound. But we're talking about Goldsmith in the age of Goldsmith, especially during the renaissance of orchestral scores (which are fading a bit these days).

But the synths today sound different to the synths of the 80s. Modern synths sound more like bassy padding.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Ultimately, synth is (or should be) like seasoning: using a bit of it here and there brings a nice flavor to a film score.

Well I couldn't disagree more with this.

[Andy 4,127]

Explorers has some of the best Goldsmith synths. What a jewel it is.

Explorers has some of the best everything. Probably a top 3 Goldsmith score for me.

[Uni 306]

One of his best.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Love that score and its lushness. Only wish Dante could have completed the film.

[crocodile 8,012]

I love his synths in Legend and the some stuff he does with them in scores like Poltergeist 2. And Star Trek: The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier.

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Ultimately, synth is (or should be) like seasoning: using a bit of it here and there brings a nice flavor to a film score.

Well I couldn't disagree more with this.

Just to expand on this now that I have time.

This attitude of segregation is exactly what Jerry was trying to abolish by his use of electronics. Despite the varying musical success of these efforts, the act itself must be commended. He and others viewed synthesizers as the next logical addition to the symphony orchestra, and many now share this sentiment, including myself. Sound producing devices are sound producing devices, and to ignore the immense sonic possibilities afforded by these instruments or to relegate them to "seasoning" would be criminal. And this is just speaking of synths in the orchestra. Their independent capabilities shouldn't even need mentioning.

Point is, I wish the attitude of marginalizing electronics would just die.

[publicist 4,643]

With all these possibilities i wonder why it so often misused as a simple rhythmic device - JG was as guilty of this as others. I recently listened to a fairly late Goldsmith score, THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS, in its complete form and the creativitiy in applying/manipulating synth is astounding. Many others, like the recent RIVER WILD, only got superficial effects

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Hit and miss, though more often miss in the later years.

These are scores in which I enjoyed Jerry's use of synths, however subtle.

THE SATAN BUG

THE MEPHISTO WALTZ

TORA! TORA! TORA!

LOGAN'S RUN

CAPRICORN ONE

ALIEN

ST:TMP

DAMIEN: OMEN II

OUTLAND

THE FINAL CONFLICT

FIRST BLOOD

UNDER FIRE

LEGEND

TOTAL RECALL

BASIC INSTINCT

THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS

HOLLOW MAN

[Thor 7,504]

I usually can't stand it. I don't think he truly grasped the instrument's unique abilities, and certainly not ways to integrate it organically with acoustic instruments. For the most part, Jerry's synths stand out as a sore thumb in a landscape that may otherwise be brilliant (LEGEND being the prime example).

I love Goldsmith, but mostly for his acoustic experimentation. Despite his fascination for synths, especially in the 80s, he never really "got it".

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bullshit!

[Thor 7,504]

Nope. 'tis the TRUTH!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Deep down, Thor loves Goldsmith's synths when they're in an album presentation.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

UNI, wash your mouth out! "Runaway" is brilliant!

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

It all depends on the score for me. Hoosiers I found brilliant (and the myth that the drum set is a sampled basketball is entirely believable) but a number of his other scores do nothing for me. At the end of the day, Goldsmith is one of the few composers whose synth work I enjoy.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I usually can't stand it. I don't think he truly grasped the instrument's unique abilities, and certainly not ways to integrate it organically with acoustic instruments.

 

 

Well said, but that's true for many composers of his generation. They tend to write for it just like they would for an organ, harmonium or any other keyboard instrument. In that sense, they're being mislead by a surface feature of synths (they keyboard interface) - one which many synths do without (such as the EMS VCS3 or dozens of romplers later on).

 

I liked it when Goldsmith wrote for it subtly, like the haunting phased ARP String Ensemble pads in CAPRICORN ONE.

 

 

Terrific scoring in that whole scene, BTW. Probably my favourite cue in the film.

[A24 4,333]

The best string machine is or was the Roland VP-330, Sharks!

Great choirs too, BTW!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'm still partial to this workhorse. Going to heavily feature it in something soon.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm working on a concerto for Rolph Harris. Stylophone and prison inmate chorus.

[DreamTheater 131]

I love his synths in Legend and the some stuff he does with them in scores like Poltergeist 2. And Star Trek: The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier.

Karol

Nay for the first, yah for the other three.

Weirdly, I'm usually all for synths in a JG score.

It's definitely a rare case of me wanting Legend to be totally synth-free, because the orchestra alone does the job so well.

The reason that I rarely listen to Legend, for all its beauty, on my next listen I know some of that beauty is ruined by the electronics.

[publicist 4,643]

This cue isn't written by someone who doesn't get synth...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The man wrote over 300 fucking scores, a substantial chunk of them with synthesizers, all the way back to the early 60s. He contributed to the acceptance and respectability of synths.

To say that he didn't get synth is like saying Michelangelo didn't quite get the chisel. It's asinine.

Oh and for fun, from the Bluhrmenkehrl downloads folder archives:

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Interesting depiction of him.

[ymenard 54]

On a somehow different note, electronic pioneers Autechre admitted that they were very influenced by the work of Jerry Goldsmith during their teenage years and It helped shape their own sound and vision of electronic textures.

[publicist 4,643]

The man wrote over 300 fucking scores, a substantial chunk of them with synthesizers, all the way back to the early 60s. He contributed to the acceptance and respectability of synths.

Thor may refer only to his precious 80's where Goldsmith started to employ synths more and more as a commercial shortcut - they went from cutting-edge to autopilot with some notable exceptions in that phase.

On a somehow different note, electronic pioneers Autechre admitted that they were very influenced by the work of Jerry Goldsmith during their teenage years and It helped shape their own sound and vision of electronic textures.

Though i don't hear it much, at least not on the recent Spotify albums.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

He certainly made some strange synth choices, especially in the 80s that don't sound as great today. But that comes with the territory of trying new things.

I have greater respect for composers who have tried new ideas and failed.

[A24 4,333]

He shouldn't have gone the DX7 way ...

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

He shouldn't have gone the DX7 way ...

They worked quite well in FIRST BLOOD, but by PART II and RUNAWAY it got a bit out of hand.