DominicCobb 194 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 11 hours ago, rolltide1017 said: Has anyone compared the theatrical end credits to the Blu-ray end credits yet? The credits are almost 3 minutes longer on the BD. I know "Scherzo for X-Wings" was added after Rey's theme. I wonder what credits were added though, 3 minutes is a lot of names to add. I just finished watching the film and came on to comment about the end credits. Scherzo is definitely added (and Rey's theme is the concert version, though I think it was already like that?), but it's a different take than the concert version, and goes right into a different take of Ren's theme (with the interesting 60 minutes motif playing through longer than in the version on the album and FYC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zutton 0 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I noticed the end credits were different immediately. I preferred the version of Rey's theme that appeared in the theatrical version (also appears on soundtrack), strange that they changed it. I also was wondering what they possibly could have needed to add to the credits to make them so much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdC 16 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Thanks for this Jason, I used the timings you gave on the first page to do a narrative breakdown in my latest blog post. http://cuebycue.blogspot.com/2016/04/star-wars-force-awakens-williams-2015.html I credited you at the bottom of my table, I hope that's cool. Is there a similar breakdown for the Prequel trilogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 That is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,396 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 I've got a question, why do you all believe that "Snoke" (OST) is a concert suite? We hear it in the film (second part of "Bring Her To Me"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 Very cool EdC I'll check out your site as soon as I can! EdC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdC 16 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 3 hours ago, ChewyBomber said: I've got a question, why do you all believe that "Snoke" (OST) is a concert suite? We hear it in the film (second part of "Bring Her To Me"). I actually went back and forth on that. Faleel's edit has it as Bring Her To Me, but in the film I thought I heard some brass bits near the end of that scene which are not in that track. I could be wrong about that...is it the consensus that it's the actual underscore? When listening to that scene at high volume for the underscore, Snoke's voice just BLASTS out of the soundfield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 21 hours ago, EdC said: I actually went back and forth on that. Faleel's edit has it as Bring Her To Me, but in the film I thought I heard some brass bits near the end of that scene which are not in that track. I could be wrong about that...is it the consensus that it's the actual underscore? When listening to that scene at high volume for the underscore, Snoke's voice just BLASTS out of the soundfield... It definitely sounds a bit like in the film, though maybe not exact. Don't know if concert suite is the best way to label it, probably more likely an alternate version, if anything. Side note, where is Finn's theme in I Can Fly Anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 44 minutes ago, DominicCobb said: Side note, where is Finn's theme in I Can Fly Anything? It's not. Just Poe's theme - which I still say doesn't function so much as a leitmotif for Poe as it does a general victory theme that's loosely associated with both Poe and Finn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdC 16 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 You know, DominicCobb, I think you're right, it's not a concert suite just an edit. I mean, clearly JW is not going to say "Ok here's the one you've been waiting for...SNOKE!". Oh wait, actually that'd be awesome in concert! Anyways yeah, I'm going to relabel it as "alternate edit" in my post, thanks for the feedback. As for Finn's theme in I Can Fly Anything - yep you got me Datameister. That's embarrassing! It's such an important supportive element I just assumed it was Finn's theme. I will fix that - thanks very much for pointing that out. Goddam this board is humbling. Poe's theme I still like to think of as just "his" theme, because when he's in that tracking-shot of taking out all those baddies on Takodana it's such a great Poe show-off sequence and works so splendidly with that soaring theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aviazn 273 Posted April 12, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 12, 2016 On 4/4/2016 at 10:49 AM, mrbellamy said: Not sure about its significance but unless there's another example in the opening scene, I think it's first heard in the film here, when the FO are heading back to the Star Destroyer after the Jakku raid: It also appears as a bold five-note variation in I Can Fly Anything (take out the second note and it's the same motif). Can't remember exactly what's on screen, but I'm tempted to hazard a guess that it's when the First Order notices the errant TIE fighter and scrambles to respond. Seems like a First Order equivalent to the original Imperial motif from ANH? Maybe Williams always intended to flesh it out in the later movies like with the Imperial March, and so he was content to let it fall by the wayside as scoring progressed on TFA. On 4/2/2016 at 5:11 PM, crumbs said: Very curious now if The Starkiller had a less emotional alternate as well; could easily have been scored with a more tense, action-oriented cue. Come to think of it, The Starkiller is basically exactly what I would expect JW to write if JJ Abrams had come back to him, showed him one of his big emotional moments that Giacchino scored with quiet strings and was like, "Can you do it like that, Johnny?" And JW would've been like, "JJ baby, I'll do it, but it'll have more than four chords, ok?" LongTimeJWFan, DarthDementous and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeJWFan 11 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I'm kind of new here after "lurking" a bit for the past year (sorry) while I re-created the full isolated scores for ANH and TESB. I'm at about the 40 minute mark with the isolated score for TFA, and the score breakdowns have been incredibly helpful. Thank you, Jay, and the rest of you, for providing such a detailed roadmap as a point of departure. It also helps to have the CD of the FYC, although there are few moments where I've had to make modifications to those cues (surprise!) and as with "Hope" and "Empire", some of the OST cues had to be modified as they were by the editing team (my assumption) to replicate the musical soundtrack as it is in the final cut. None of it is perfectly straight forward when you're trying to match the score frame for frame with the film's final cut, but I'm hoping to figure out eventually. I'm also hoping, as many of you are, for a complete soundtrack. Perhaps Disney will give Star Wars the Legacy Collection treatment? Has anyone else tried to create an isolated score to the film? Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,396 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Well actually we don't miss a lot of cues from the film (wouldn't be more than 20 minutes I guess), the best thing we could have is the alternate versions! Hope we'll get them one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdC 16 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 11 hours ago, LongTimeJWFan said: I'm kind of new here after "lurking" a bit for the past year (sorry) while I re-created the full isolated scores for ANH and TESB. I'm at about the 40 minute mark with the isolated score for TFA, and the score breakdowns have been incredibly helpful. Thank you, Jay, and the rest of you, for providing such a detailed roadmap as a point of departure. It also helps to have the CD of the FYC, although there are few moments where I've had to make modifications to those cues (surprise!) and as with "Hope" and "Empire", some of the OST cues had to be modified as they were by the editing team (my assumption) to replicate the musical soundtrack as it is in the final cut. None of it is perfectly straight forward when you're trying to match the score frame for frame with the film's final cut, but I'm hoping to figure out eventually. I'm also hoping, as many of you are, for a complete soundtrack. Perhaps Disney will give Star Wars the Legacy Collection treatment? Has anyone else tried to create an isolated score to the film? I will be curious to hear an assembly of the 2nd Snoke scene. There's an "isolated edit" by Faleel out there, but it doesn't have every single frame-by-frame bit AFAIK. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 21 hours ago, ChewyBomber said: Well actually we don't miss a lot of cues from the film (wouldn't be more than 20 minutes I guess), the best thing we could have is the alternate versions! Hope we'll get them one day. Yep. After listening to all the unreleased stuff I think Landing at Lightspeed is the only one I desperately want. The real holy grail is all the unused music (30 minutes worth was it?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 6 hours ago, DominicCobb said: Yep. After listening to all the unreleased stuff I think Landing at Lightspeed is the only one I desperately want. The real holy grail is all the unused music (30 minutes worth was it?). Yep, doubly so after hearing the music on the documentary. There seem to be some amazing alternates that go way beyond orchestrational differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 70 minutes , not 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Ok, i searched 'rebel fanfare' in all threads about TFA score and didnt find anything on what i'm going to say..so i hope it is something new... In "I can fly anything" there is a rythmic ostinato played by strings (OST track 2:33-2:40, but it is in several instances in the whole cue), that in my opinion is very similar to the drums rythm in The Rebel fanfare (examples, Rebel blockade runner, imperial attack, saild barge asault, superstructure chase...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdC 16 Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: Ok, i searched 'rebel fanfare' in all threads about TFA score and didnt find anything on what i'm going to say..so i hope it is something new... In "I can fly anything" there is a rythmic ostinato played by strings (OST track 2:33-2:40, but it is in several instances in the whole cue), that in my opinion is very similar to the drums rythm in The Rebel fanfare (examples, Rebel blockade runner, imperial attack, saild barge asault, superstructure chase...) Yeah, that's the motif which I previously confused with Finn's theme. I redubbed it the "Escape motif" for myself, but I can see a rhythmic similarity to the OT rhythms you list. I suppose it could just be a "stylistic" thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,396 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 John Williams said in the music documentary that "The Jedi Steps" is a theme that was never used anywhere in the film except for the final scene. However, why do I hear it at 0:38 in "The Scavenger" (OST) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 How long before someone here makes a compilation of the isolated score like someone did for Episodes 2 and 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 13 hours ago, ChewyBomber said: John Williams said in the music documentary that "The Jedi Steps" is a theme that was never used anywhere in the film except for the final scene. However, why do I hear it at 0:38 in "The Scavenger" (OST) Because you...don't? That flute cadenza is never heard in the Jedi Steps cue. Different melody altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,396 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 15 hours ago, Datameister said: Because you...don't? That flute cadenza is never heard in the Jedi Steps cue. Different melody altogether. If you say so But you have to admit that it's really similar (at 0:40 in "Jedi Steps"), I doubt it'd be a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'm gonna have to disagree. They're both in a minor key and the opening figure involves a perfect fifth...not much else there, I'm afraid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Datameister said: I'm gonna have to disagree. They're both in a minor key and the opening figure involves a perfect fifth...not much else there, I'm afraid! That's because its a variation so brilliant, that it sounds nothing like to the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Faleel said: That's because its a variation so brilliant, that it sounds nothing like to the other Only John Williams is crafty enough to write those! Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 20, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 20, 2016 On 05/04/2016 at 1:52 AM, artguy360 said: The album version of The Attack on Jakku is just so good. The FYC version is great as well but the OST version is snappier and has some lush strings missing from the FYC version. After my first few listens I liked The Attack on Jakku for its energy and sonic quality, but felt it was a bit formless. But now, the pace and quick changes just work beautifully to create a powerful, engaging action cue. For me the lead up to the first statement of Ren's theme doesn't feel quite as satisfying without the extensive build-up of the FYC version. It's not earned. Loert, Not Mr. Big and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 On 02/04/2016 at 0:19 AM, Bill said: :07-:20 of "You Need A Pilot" has a musical idea that sounds similar to what plays in the film at the moment Ren kills Han and the string stuff heard on the OST track "Snoke" (this is one I think is almost certainly coincidental because I can't imagine what the thematic link could be from "You Need A Pilot" to those two other cues) I hear the "You Need a Pilot" figure as a generic Williamsism rather than a motif of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I mentioned this little idea a while back, but have heard it in variations and snippets throughout the whole score and think it could be something more than a standard Williams-ism. Here are its most identifiable moments: The Falcon (2:12 - 2:17) Scherzo for X-Wings (0:11 - 0:14) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 On April 17, 2016 at 4:16 AM, ChewyBomber said: John Williams said in the music documentary that "The Jedi Steps" is a theme that was never used anywhere in the film except for the final scene. However, why do I hear it at 0:38 in "The Scavenger" (OST) There is no relationship between the two in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Welcome back, Wael! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 1 minute ago, Stefancos said: Welcome back, Wael! Where was I? Who are you? What is this place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 You forgot about me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,396 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 3 hours ago, ocelot said: There is no relationship between the two in the slightest. I'm alone then haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Ocelot, tell them about the woodwinds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 2 hours ago, Stefancos said: You forgot about me? Never, you were always my best, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Best...what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I am considering writing a score analysis of some sort for TFA. That doesn't mean I for sure will do it -- I'm sure it will take a lot of time, and I'm pretty busy. But I'm wondering whether anyone else on these forums is working on one right now (because if so, I will definitely not do one). Please let me know if you are working on one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdC 16 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Bill said: I am considering writing a score analysis of some sort for TFA. That doesn't mean I for sure will do it -- I'm sure it will take a lot of time, and I'm pretty busy. But I'm wondering whether anyone else on these forums is working on one right now (because if so, I will definitely not do one). Please let me know if you are working on one! I did a pass below, but I didn't get into functional harmony or anything like that. Of course there's plenty more to be said so more analysis is always welcome. http://cuebycue.blogspot.com/2016/04/star-wars-force-awakens-williams-2015.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Combing through the Blu-ray audio, I'm coming to realize just how much editorial mangling this score suffered. While some cues are fairly intact, a lot of scenes just have a bunch of different cues tracked in on top of each other, and there are numerous spots where the music is dialed out completely for a while. Pretty crazy. Star Wars' legacy of hacking wonderful scores to bits lives on, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,360 Posted April 29, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 29, 2016 And everyone was saying Abrams treats music well in his films.... DarthDementous, crumbs and Bilbo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 Super 8 and STID are fairly intact. The rest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Yup was about to mention STID too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I don't have a link but there's a featurette on the Bluray called Blueprint of a Battle that features an alternate mix of Farewell. The strings are significantly more pronounced in this version than the OST, which is heavier on the brass. The most notable section is 0:19 - 0:28 from the OST track; the brass is completely dialed back and the strings are front and centre. The tempo is also different but I suppose that could be artificial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Okay, after spending some time getting real friendly with the Blu-ray audio, I think I've figured out the scoop with the "Snoke" tracks. The FYC and OST versions correspond to the first and second Snoke scenes, respectively, as we've known for some time. I believe the FYC version presents that first cue almost completely unedited - the only change was that they overdubbed in a swell of low strings from the second cue (FYC 0:25-0:30), exactly as heard in the film. The second cue is probably best represented in the film version - the scene starts with that swell of low strings, followed immediately by the OST track 1:02-end (plus some tracked music at the end). In other words, the OST track is the beginning of the first cue with the ending of the second cue, while the FYC track is just the first cue with one quick tracked overdub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 So are you saying OST track "Snoke" from 0:00-1:02 is the music written for the first Snoke scene, and 1:02-end is the music written for the second Snoke scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 The only problem with that theory is that when you line up the two choral parts, they don't stay in sync for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 They do if you adjust the speed, Faleel. They're the same recording; one has been sped up or slowed down. Not sure which. 2 hours ago, Jay said: So are you saying OST track "Snoke" from 0:00-1:02 is the music written for the first Snoke scene, and 1:02-end is the music written for the second Snoke scene? Yes, although the beginning of each cue is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Datameister said: They do if you adjust the speed, Faleel. They're the same recording; one has been sped up or slowed down. Not sure which. I'm sure the OST speeds are unaltered from what was recorded in the studio. The FYC speeds could be adjusted anywhere to fit changing cuts of the film. 1 minute ago, Datameister said: Yes, although the beginning of each cue is missing. Gotcha. So First Snoke scene: FYC track 0:00-?:?? + OST track 0:00-1:02 Second Snoke scene: unreleased opening + OST track 1:02-end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, Jay said: So First Snoke scene: FYC track 0:00-?:?? + OST track 0:00-1:02 Second Snoke scene: unreleased opening + OST track 1:02-end For the first scene, you can literally just use the FYC track. The OST probably has the correct speed and it omits the swell of strings that probably doesn't belong there, so OST material can be edited into the middle of the FYC track as desired, but I'm just using the FYC track as-is for now. For the second scene, you are correct. We also don't know where the cue starts, of course - it blends seamlessly with the preceding interrogation scene in the film. Could be its own cue, could be all one big cue. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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