Demodex 557 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 I still don't hear the Emperor's theme in Rey's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnoix1232 1 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Demodex said: I still don't hear the Emperor's theme in Rey's theme. https://youtu.be/hzG3m-ZW198?t=584 Start at 9:44, and the video shows pretty well how it is derived from Palpatine's theme. This does seem like it was planned, as Williams has left countless hints in his music in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 6 hours ago, Stefancos said: Bloody Scavenger! Scavenger scum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted December 25, 2019 Author Share Posted December 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Stefancos said: Bloody Scavenger! It is poetry! It rhymes! 8 hours ago, Stefancos said: Bloody Scavenger! It is poetry! It rhymes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 19 hours ago, Quintus said: What it demonstrates is that Mattris got one over the whole forum, completely. Good on him. He outwitted every Star Wars fan on this site. Game set and match. And both he and us (well, most of us) were let down as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 6 hours ago, gnoix1232 said: https://youtu.be/hzG3m-ZW198?t=584 Start at 9:44, and the video shows pretty well how it is derived from Palpatine's theme. This does seem like it was planned, as Williams has left countless hints in his music in the past. Thanks! I finally hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2019 There's absolutely nothing in the films to suggest it was ever planned. Chen G., Bryant Burnette and Nick Parker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: There's absolutely nothing in the films to suggest it was ever planned. And in several instances quite the contrary! Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnoix1232 1 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: There's absolutely nothing in the films to suggest it was ever planned. John William's hints in the score were not the only clues. Reys fighting style is very similar to that of Palpatine, and they share the same signature move, that being the forward jab. JJ Abrams is exceptionally good at planning big twists and keeping them hidden. If it weren't for the backlash from The Last Jedi, I feel like Rey's heritage would have been kept in JJ's "Mystery Box", and left to theorists as he often does. Thats the main reason it seems unplanned for most people, because they likely had never planned on revealing it. Oskar's Music 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 So your theory is they came up with a great twist, but weren’t planning to, y’know, include it in any of their movies? Chen G. and Bryant Burnette 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MedigoScan 324 Posted December 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2019 The 'Join Me' track alone already shows how easy it is to fool people into thinking you're gonna get the emperor theme, but instead you get Rey's theme. Oskar's Music, Cerebral Cortex and Demodex 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 On 12/24/2019 at 2:44 PM, Chen G. said: The idea that Rey is a Palpatine doesn't come off as planned. I agree, I think naming her Rey (=king) was intentional in case they wanted to go that way, but the majority of evidence in TFA points to her being related to Luke, IMO. I think J.J. didn’t really decide to bring back Palpatine till after Rian killed off Snoke. On 12/24/2019 at 2:44 PM, Chen G. said: Besides, I doubt Williams would have cared. What do you mean? We are all aware that Daisy Ridley caught his fancy. Hasn’t he been telling audiences, since TLJ, that he’s sure TLJ is not the last word on Rey’s parentage? That “I think she’s a Skywalker, don’t you,” or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnoix1232 1 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 4 hours ago, A. A. Ron said: So your theory is they came up with a great twist, but weren’t planning to, y’know, include it in any of their movies? If you've watched a lot of JJ's movies and TV shows, you will know that he often sets up so many mysteries, and usually answers next to none of them. Usually near the end of these movies, he will leave big hints to the answers, but he likes to leave things open ended. The fact that they outright said who Rey's heritage was in such an obvious manner shows that JJ was forced by Disney to reveal it outright, as JJ usually likes to reveal things in more subtle ways. Just look at movies like 10 cloverfield lane, which the whole movie the viewer has no clue whats going on outside, until the very end where its still not fully explained what happened. He likes his secrets. Even if they did plan to fully reveal all the secrets from the beginning, JJ would have still done his best to keep Rey's heritage a secret, which is why to many it comes off as a last minute decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 6 hours ago, MedigoScan said: The 'Join Me' track alone already shows how easy it is to fool people into thinking you're gonna get the emperor theme, but instead you get Rey's theme. Wow, that's actually quite brilliant. Williams was being 100% conscious of the similarity at this point, even playing with it. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Sure, this all seems like a horrible fake rumored plot twist, but the evidence is there in the music that it was planned all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 If that were the case, they would've come out by now and acknowledged as much. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 If Abrams was planning that Palpatine twist all along, but chose not to reveal it to the employers who had staked unbelievable amounts of money on this new trilogy of films, then he should never be employed in Hollywood again. In what universe would a "strategy" like that make sense of either a financial or an artistic variety? Especially since he was planning not to come back for the third film? Then too, there's this: Love The Last Jedi, hate The Last Jedi, or fall somewhere inbetween, that movie took the notion of Rey being anything but a "nobody" off the table. It is incredible to me that Lucasfilm allowed Abrams to do what he did in The Rise of Skywalker, and it is incredible to me that Disney allowed Lucasfilm to allow it. I loved both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, and now the trilogy has come to such a limp conclusion that I'm pretty sure I will avoid all three movies and just pretend none of this mess ever happened. Except for the scores, of course. A. A. Ron and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 25 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said: Abrams ... should never be employed in Hollywood again. FTFY TROS has totally soured me on the entire trilogy, which is pretty incredible considering I enjoyed TFA and loved TLJ. But TROS is in such a hurry to introduce new characters, new plot contrivances, new McGuffins, that it completely fails to present a compelling (or coherent) story. I wanted to give Terrio the benefit of the doubt (purely because of Argo, ignoring his DC disasters) but my trust was clearly misplaced; he's up there with JJ's other hack mates from the Star Trek reboots. Love or loathe Rian Johnson's story choices on TLJ but he made a conscious effort to liberate this trilogy from the shackles of simply recycling the past, only for JJ to pedal backwards at lightspeed and wreck the entire trilogy in 141 minutes flat. That film was the work of a writer/filmmaker with a very firm grasp on the story they were telling; JJ's effort on TROS is just throwing shit at the screen in the hope something sticks. Bryant Burnette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 I'm not sure it doesn't also wreck the original trilogy AND the prequel trilogy from the fabled certain point of view. After all, Palpatine's "plan" in this movie is so cartoonishly lame that I'm afraid it will make me look at him in a different light the next time I watch the first six movies. And if I do, it won't be in a good light. Fuck, man, I think this movie ruined all Star Wars for me. Now I know what people who hardcore loathed The Last Jedi felt like; I still disagree with them, but I've suddenly got a new empathy for them. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,319 Posted December 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2019 The most insulting retcon is abandoning the idea that Rey could come from nothing yet still be great. Way to completely shit on one of TLJ's most important themes, just to appease a vocal section of the fanbase. What a garbage message to send to kids everywhere who related to Rey's story and looked up to her because she was nobody -- not because she was Rey Whoever, blood relation to some powerful force user. By JJ's idiotic logic, you have to wonder how the Jedi Council ever came into existence without blood relatives of the Skywalker line. In his simplistic post-ROTJ narrative, only Skywalkers and Palpatines are allowed a meaningful connection with the Force. #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal, Bryant Burnette and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Also ... Palpatine fucks? Man, that's gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 1 hour ago, crumbs said: In his simplistic post-ROTJ narrative, only Skywalkers and Palpatines are allowed a meaningful connection with the Force. And Finn, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: Sure, this all seems like a horrible fake rumored plot twist, but the evidence is there in the music that it was planned all along. Not at all. Or is Cinque from Amistad a Palpatine too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 @Demodex Demodex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Thanks. I was looking for this thread in the general discussion forum, not the John Williams one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 On 12/25/2015 at 5:41 AM, Blumenkohl said: I haven't had any crazy theories for a while, so here we go. ...I'm listening to the Scavenger, and the rhythmic piano section of Rey's theme (starts at 1:03) sounds eerily similar to the Emperor's Theme. Sort of like Anakin's Theme was a bright and cheery version of Darth Vader's theme? Is the Skywalker gone bad, and the Palpatine gone good this time? Is this why Luke gives Rey the death stare at the end?! Ok, in retrospect: hands down, the greatest post of 2015. BLUMENKOHL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 22 minutes ago, Sandor said: Ok, in retrospect: hands down, the greatest post of 2015. But do you believe Williams knew in 2015 Rey was Palpy's grand kid? Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Or that he would bother foreshadowing it in her theme? The only foreshadowing Williams’ ever did was in young Anakin’s theme, and that was because he was foreshadowing a movie that was already out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 They may not have decided that Rey had a relationship to Palpatine at first, but they could have said it’s a possibility and John put a little out in there for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastoEls 563 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 John Williams explicitly stated to the audience attending the premiere of Rey's Theme (I think?) that JJ had not told him who Rey's parents were, and that he (JW) thought she had to be Luke's daughter, although he didn't know with certainty and "my guess is as good as yours". There must be some audio on youtube about that, but I cannot find it anymore. I am absolutely sure that I heard such statements with my own ears from JW's voice. Since I'm not a Jedi, I don't think JW was talking only to me through the Force. Maybe some other jwfans remember as well. For what is worth, Rey's theme has some harmonic similarity also with the Force theme (which allowed him to superpose them in the End Credits of TFA, see here: starting around 7:27), as well as a rhythmic similarity with Han Solo and the Princess, like the part starting at 7:50. Both of these are as strong (or as weak) as the perceived similarity with the Emperor's theme. If Rey had turned out to have been conceived by the midichlorians, or to be Han's daughter, people would have pointed, respectively, to those other "hints". Anything is possible, but in my opinion the evidence that JW knew about Palpatine when he wrote Rey's theme is weak, and contradicted by his declarations. 32 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said: They may not have decided that Rey had a relationship to Palpatine at first, but they could have said it’s a possibility and John put a little out in there for them. It is possible that JJ told JW to make the theme ambiguous enough to "suggest everything" while at the same time "not suggest anything". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 I feel like JJ wouldn't be brazen enough to tell Williams how to write a theme to those kind of specifics. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 42 minutes ago, Score said: John Williams explicitly stated to the audience attending the premiere of Rey's Theme (I think?) that JJ had not told him who Rey's parents were, and that he (JW) thought she had to be Luke's daughter, although he didn't know with certainty and "my guess is as good as yours". There must be some audio on youtube about that, but I cannot find it anymore. I am absolutely sure that I heard such statements with my own ears from JW's voice. Since I'm not a Jedi, I don't think JW was talking only to me through the Force. Maybe some other jwfans remember as well. For what is worth, Rey's theme has some harmonic similarity also with the Force theme (which allowed him to superpose them in the End Credits of TFA, see here: starting around 7:27), as well as a rhythmic similarity with Han Solo and the Princess, like the part starting at 7:50. Both of these are as strong (or as weak) as the perceived similarity with the Emperor's theme. If Rey had turned out to have been conceived by the midichlorians, or to be Han's daughter, people would have pointed, respectively, to those other "hints". Anything is possible, but in my opinion the evidence that JW knew about Palpatine when he wrote Rey's theme is weak, and contradicted by his declarations. It is possible that JJ told JW to make the theme ambiguous enough to "suggest everything" while at the same time "not suggest anything". That doesn’t say much though. Williams is a showman, and a good one too. He knows how to keep a secret. 24 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said: I feel like JJ wouldn't be brazen enough to tell Williams how to write a theme to those kind of specifics. Would they sit in a room and not talk about the character? Sounds like a poor collaboration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 This film is such a failure! Chen G. and Bryant Burnette 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastoEls 563 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 At least she don't look like him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 23 minutes ago, GlastoEls said: At least she don't look like him! I see the resemblance... GlastoEls and Bespin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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