Rings of Power Amazon buys up Middle-earth, it searches the One Ring! (Rings of Power news thread)

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

1 hour ago, Bilbo said:

I can’t stop laughing at this. 

Someone please tell me this isn’t WETA.

[Bilbo 3623]

This set of curtains isn’t much better. 

[Chen G. 2948]

9 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Someone please tell me this isn’t WETA.

 

Weta didn't do the armour: only weapons, prosthetics and the overall concept art.

 

And only for this first season, it seems.

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

This is the real killer for me. There were an interview or two where the showrunners asked us to not compare to the movies, and its like "tough luck, buddy. In a world where people can't even watch the Bakshi film and avoid comparisons to the Jackson Lord of the Rings, how can your show avoid those comparisons?" But, beyond that, if you want to eschew comparisons to the films, why go for production design that so desparately wants to be a movie prequel?

 

And ontop of that they say that didn't want to do "a prequel" and yet thus far I'm seeing a lot of box-checking going on. I actually compiled a list:

 

 

 

Yeah. If they don't want comparisons to the films (and that's silly to expect), maybe they shouldn't have tried so hard to make their show look like the films.  I mean, when you have that Balrog shot at the end of the trailer...please. It's obvious what they're trying to do.

 

In an event, given the significant amount of backlash to the show so far, I've noticed a shift in their (so far disastrous) marketing strategy. There's a lot of "we keep going to back to the books", and "we're not reflecting modern politics" etc. from the showrunners. No doubt in an effort to appease the significant portion of the Tolkien fan base that's sceptical of this project.  But all this is belied by the recent absurd comments by the cast (and I think you know what they are) who apparently didn't get the memo.  Their priorities are clear, and respecting Tolkien's vision, and spirit, doesn't seem to be paramount among them.

 

 

[Disco Stu 15468]

1 hour ago, Bilbo said:

This set of curtains isn’t much better. 

 

 

"I saw it in the window and I couldn't resist"

 

[Chen G. 2948]

5 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

all this is belied by the recent absurd comments by the cast...and I think you know what they are.

 

Those cast members who think that for them to appear in a Tolkien adaptation is somekind of big, nigh-world-changing societal statement? Yeah, I think I know. Its...yeah...

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

 

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Those cast members who think that for them to appear in a Tolkien adaptation is somekind of big, nigh-world-changing societal statement? Yeah, I think I know. Its...yeah..

 

Quote

“We are redressing the balance within the film and television, television industry and of course, this franchise and I hope, lots of franchises moving forward... For new generations THIS is their version of Tolkien, THIS is what my daughter will see of Tolkien’s works."

 

How can anyone claim to have respect for the source material and say something like that? Most of the cast comments are filled with stuff like that. 

 

So Tolkien has to be "redressed". Apparently, in curtains. 

[Chen G. 2948]

15 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Quote

“We are redressing the balance within the film and television, television industry and of course, this franchise and I hope, lots of franchises moving forward... For new generations THIS is their version of Tolkien, this is what my daughter will see of Tolkien’s works."

 

Oi gevalt...

[Barnald 364]

2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

How can anyone claim to have respect for the source material and say something like that? Most of the cast comments are filled with stuff like that. 

 

So Tolkien has to be "redressed".

 

 

No doubt they believe they're 'improving' Tolkien.

[Chen G. 2948]

My issue is less with that: I believe one needs to be somewhat cavalier towards the material one is adapting to be able to make those decisions that are necessary for the adaptation.

 

Its just that thus far so much of what I'm seeing seems to suggest that these showrunners got carried up in the idea of doing "a fantasy show" to the extent that we're getting a show that's very overtly and self-consciously fantastical. Art direction is a hit-and-miss for me thus far.

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

45 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Its just that thus far so much of what I'm seeing seems to suggest that these showrunners got carried up in the idea of doing "a fantasy show" to the extent that we're getting a show that's very overtly and self-consciously fantastical. Art direction is a hit-and-miss for me thus far.

 

While I hate to admit it, I do think some of the art direction, particularly some of the settings, looks...OK so far. It does look like they're giving some thought to that.  Though I completely agree that the whole thing looks much too "fantasy". 

[Mr. Who 635]

3 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Yeah. If they don't want comparisons to the films (and that's silly to expect), maybe they shouldn't have tried so hard to make their show look like the films.  I mean, when you have that Balrog shot at the end of the trailer...please. It's obvious what they're trying to do.

 

In an event, given the significant amount of backlash to the show so far, I've noticed a shift in their (so far disastrous) marketing strategy. There's a lot of "we keep going to back to the books", and "we're not reflecting modern politics" etc. from the showrunners. No doubt in an effort to appease the significant portion of the Tolkien fan base that's sceptical of this project.  But all this is belied by the recent absurd comments by the cast, who apparently didn't get the memo (and I think you know what they are).  Their priorities are clear, and respecting Tolkien's vision, and spirit, doesn't seem to be paramount among them.

 

 

Which comments from the actors would this be? I haven’t been following too closely.

[Bilbo 3623]

From what I’ve seen it’s the wide angle stuff that looks good. Squint and it looks like the PJ movies. But the closer you get to the details… yikes! 

[Chen G. 2948]

32 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

While I hate to admit it, I do think some of the art direction, particularly some of the settings, looks...OK so far. It does look like they're giving some thought to that.  Though I completely agree that the whole thing looks much too "fantasy". 

 

Oh, I like some of the stuff! I think Khazad-Dum and Ost-in-Edhil look very nice indeed, and while it can become too much, for the moment its nice to see knights in armour on the screen again! Hearing Peter Mullan's gravely tones as Durin III was bliss, even if he's much too cool for that crude crown.

 

Other stuff like the Dwalkyrie or Miriel's helmet (WTF?!)...not so much. The scale motif, along with the horse-shaped hilts and horsetail-crested helmets is another curious one, and I can't avoid thinking that the thought process was "well, we can't have Rohirrim in this, but we want the Rohan iconography in this. Wait, Numenore has cavalry, right? Lets just put it there!"

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

2 hours ago, Bilbo said:

From what I’ve seen it’s the wide angle stuff that looks good. Squint and it looks like the PJ movies. But the closer you get to the details…

 

[Brónach 492]

14 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

Which comments from the actors would this be? I haven’t been following too closely.

 

i have no idea

 

i love out of context comments by actors forced to be marketers while not allowed to say anything at all! they're so helpful

 

(not that they cannot be dumb as bricks like everybody else).

18 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Those cast members who think that for them to appear in a Tolkien adaptation is somekind of big, nigh-world-changing societal statement? Yeah, I think I know. Its...yeah...

 

oh wow that is just like toxic fandom but by actors

 

it's just an unimportant show. it's barely inside the tolkien world, and it's also unimportant as a mainstram thing.

 

it's the constant THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER that turns into stupidity, and also sometimes pedestals for the source material (the actual material) that are also a disservice to it

 

...

 

Overall, I'm amused that only now I start seeing people concerned about clothing, weaponry, weapons design or civil and military architecture in fantasy and historical things, after being told for ages that it's fiction and that it doesn't matter. next we'll talk about martial arts maybe.

[Chen G. 2948]

3 hours ago, Brónach said:

Overall, I'm amused that only now I start seeing people concerned about clothing, weaponry, weapons design or civil and military architecture in fantasy and historical things, after being told for ages that it's fiction and that it doesn't matter.

 

It doesn't matter in terms of being actually realistic: it matters in terms of percieved realism. A good example are some of the Elven blades we see in this: do swords with hilts as huge as these actually exist? Sure! Just look at a 15th century Zweihander. But when most people see it, it registers as "fantasy sword!"

 

I think the triumph of Jackson's films rested on two things - the earnestness of the performances, and the naturalism of the production design. The combination of both of those things made it look more like a historical movie (very much modelled on Braveheart) than a fantasy movie of yore.

 

Its obviously a balancing act: Jackson didn't set out to totally historicize the fantasy a-la King Arthur: there are still fantasy creatures and impossible structures and - as with any action movie - beats that stretch credulity. But on the whole they nevertheless had a certain naturalism. This...doesn't have that feeling, for the most part.

[mstrox 5681]

Tolkien-approved!

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

KitKat, yes. But what about second KitKat?

[Bilbo 3623]

Marketing stuff like this never actually bothers me but I know it really bothers some people. 
 

the tie in book covers for the Lord of the Rings annoys me more. 

[Brónach 492]

that's going to suck, yes

[mstrox 5681]

The tie-in book covers don’t bother me because they’ll always keep some nicer legit edition in print, and the tie-in may be the thing that actually brings a kid to the Tolkien book.

 

I also don’t have a problem with the marketing - I find it funny.  Kit Kat thing isn’t as funny as the Hobbit Dennys menus, but there’s still time.

[Bilbo 3623]

The Hobbit Denny’s menus were the absolute peak. Nothing will ever tip them. 
 

well. Maybe the German burger spoiling Rise of Skywalker. 

[Jay 31058]

5 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Maybe the German burger spoiling Rise of Skywalker. 

 

I don't know this story - what happened?

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

10 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Nothing will ever tip them. 

 

A common complaint among Denny's waitresses. 

[Bilbo 3623]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I don't know this story - what happened?

So Bruger King in Germany ran some in store competition that gave away spoilers for Rise of Skywalker. 
 

https://screenrant.com/rise-skywalker-ending-burger-king-spoilers-disney-before-release/

[Jay 31058]

lol

[Bilbo 3623]

Sometimes I can’t believe I lived through that. Such a surreal experience.

[Chen G. 2948]

I laughed so friggin' hard!

 

 

[Disco Stu 15468]

Guessing that joke only lands for those that live around the Levant...

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

27 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I laughed so friggin' hard!

 

 

 

Sometimes I can’t believe I lived through that. Such a surreal experience.

[Bilbo 3623]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Guessing that joke only lands for those that live around the Levant...

Ah I think it’s pretty self explanatory. The video looks like the opening for a soap opera.

[Servant of Morgoth 14]

If the show will suck as I fear at least we'll have the possibility to make a lot of memes and gifs

And this is an encouraging thought

[Mr. Who 635]

They really do seem to want people to compare it to LOTR after all:
https://www.etonline.com/the-rings-of-power-details-a-new-era-in-middle-earth-every-good-quest-needs-a-fellowship-exclusive

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

Offered without comment.

 

Quote

 

Peter Jackson Says Amazon’s ‘Lord of the Rings’ TV Series Ghosted Him

The Oscar-winning director says Amazon asked him to be involved with its mega-budget LOTR prequel – and then cut off contact.

 

 

 

Quote

‘The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power’ Actress Nazanin Boniadi Says Her Character Is An Activist

 

“For Bronwyn, she is a healer. But she taps into her inner lioness and I as an activist, as a longtime human rights activist"

[Pellaeon 573]

Maybe we can call this forum “Tolkien Central & Peripheral.”

[WampaRat 1095]

With the Tolkien estate working with Amazon on this, is there a possibility Amazon might be able to negotiate another deal to get the rights to some more second age material from the legendarium? Or are other Tolkien works forever and always off the table outside of LOTR and The Hobbit?
 

I wonder if the estate is taking a “wait and see” approach? ( ie if this show is a *success* this season they may be willing to talk rights to more material)

 

(Forgive the noob-level question. I haven’t really followed all the legal details all that closely. )

[Chen G. 2948]

We don't know.

 

Personally, I think the more substantial of Tolkien's stories - certainly the "Great Tales" of the First Age - deserve to feature on the big-screen. The Second Age stuff is basically a glorified bridge between the stories of the First Age and those of the late Third Age, and so I'm more accepting to it being a television series.

 

Warners have started a tentative move into the earlier stories of the Third Age with The War of the Rohirrim, and there's little stopping them from also doing the Angmar Wars (set-up heavily in The Hobbit), the Kinstrife, Battle of the Camp and the Oath of Cirion, which pretty much sums-up the worthwhile storylines presented in the appendices. One hopes they'll be emboldened to do those live-action.

 

At the same time, either way I don't want to get too much Tolkien: a streaming show and six films coming on seven, long though they may be, is still fine by me. But the sheer numbers of shows and films pulled by Star Wars and Marvel is overkill for me. Thankfully, Middle Earth projects have proved harder to produce, which helped keep the numbers in check.

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

My understanding is the Tolkien Estate, in an apparent act of sanity & mercy, has taken The Silmarillion & Unfinished Tales (and associated works) off the table in terms of adaptation, at least for the time being.

 

I've been thinking about why Christopher Tolkien, before his death, agreed to the Amazon deal in the first place, given his dislike for the New Line films & distaste for adaption of his father's work in general. My guess is that he simply acquiesced to the inevitable...i.e. that after he was gone, the rights would be sold anyway, so he might as well have gotten as much control over what happens while he could. Apparently, before his death, Christopher’s main role in the Amazon deal was telling them what they couldn't do.

 

Tolkien sold the film rights to LOTR decades ago for as song, and aside from an increase in book, book-related merchandise & other ancillary sales, the Tolkien Estate got very little money from the New Line films. I think this, as much as a distaste for what Jackson did, explains a good deal of their (mostly Christopher's) hostility towards the films.  I believe selling the TV rights to a book that had already been adapted, and will be eventually be adapted again (whether as the Rohirrim film or eventually a straight up remake) was the least painful pill for the Estate to swallow. Putting the TV rights up for sale enabled them to basically get retroactively "paid" for all the adaptations up until now they got very little for.  250+ million is far more than they would have gotten had they sold the rights to New Line in the late 90's, and those films enabled them to extract the price they got from Amazon, so financially, the Estate has come out way ahead. They can't put the genie back in the bottle, LOTR has already been adapted multiple times, so letting TV do one more adaptation (even if the material is mostly from the Appendices, for now) is a compromise I think they can live with. And I think this logic explains why nothing outside of LOTR was up for sale.

 

Assuming that the other books remain off the table, it will be interesting to see where Warners & New Line take this, and how they'll manage the different, and perhaps conflicting, projects. Will Warner explore other areas of The Appendices in film? Will Amazon do the same for TV? And will either of them eventually remake Lord of the Rings? It's hard to imagine that happening in the near future, but eventually...it will happen.

[WampaRat 1095]

Thanks @Nick1Ø66 and @Chen G.. That helped organize a lot of the different info that’s floating out there for me.

7 hours ago, Chen G. said:

At the same time, either way I don't want to get too much Tolkien: a streaming show and six films coming on seven, long though they may be, is still fine by me. But the sheer numbers of shows and films pulled by Star Wars and Marvel is overkill for me. Thankfully, Middle Earth projects have proved harder to produce, which helped keep the numbers in check.

I 100% feel you on this. And I can see the fear of Tolkien’s works becoming just another bit o’ IP to be churned out. The concept of “scarcity” seems to be completely lost on all the companies producing big franchise projects today. (Remember when there used to be 3 or 4 years in between Star Wars movies? lol) Everything needs to be an expanded universe with a dozen spin-off shows in the works produced at a steady stream. I understand the appeal of the business model (and it’s seems to be working from a financial standpoint). But it’s become a “Christmas every day” scenario. Some things are more special because they only come around once in a while. 
 

That being said, it’s been a while  (2014 Battle of Five Armies?) since we’ve had a big budget depiction of Tolkien’s world. I’m interested (actually eager!) to see it.  But I can see how it will open the floodgates. “Release the riverrrr!!!…” 😬

[Servant of Morgoth 14]

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-introduces-pharazon-of-numenor-exclusive/

 

This is a great article and despite the timeline compression I think they have written quite well Pharazon and also picked the right actor

[Chen G. 2948]

17 hours ago, WampaRat said:

That being said, it’s been a while  (2014 Battle of Five Armies?) since we’ve had a big budget depiction of Tolkien’s world. I’m interested (actually eager!) to see it.

 

Some of us count by extended editions, and so its only been since October 2015. I, too, am certainly game to watch The Rings of Power and certainly The War of the Rohirrim. I just hope it stays at a trickle like that, rather than floodgates opening.

 

Quote

Assuming that the other books remain off the table, it will be interesting to see where Warners & New Line take this, and how they'll manage the different, and perhaps conflicting, projects. Will Warner explore other areas of The Appendices in film? Will Amazon do the same for TV?

 

I think the Angmar War is the best contender from both sides, although I actually think Warners are in a better position to swoop on those at the moment, while Amazon are busy with this current show. Those wars are the main substance of the early Third Age narrative and they're mentioned in The Hobbit so much that it would seem a no-brainer.

 

I would much prefer to see a film about the tail-end of the Angmar Wars or two or three films across it, rather than have Amazon continue to compress all of history to seemingly a few years. Plus, there's something to be said for Tolkien on the big screen!

[Brónach 492]

I admit I feel kind of gay for Morfydd Clark in this.

[Chen G. 2948]

Really? She doesn't do much for me. Not that it matters: I don't think Galadriel is a character the male audience is supposed to desire, particularly, at least as compared to Bronwyn and Earien.

 

Clark looks compelling enough in the role, although I know her "jugendlich" voice is throwing some people off.

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I would much prefer to see a film about the tail-end of the Angmar Wars or two or three films across it, rather than have Amazon continue to compress all of history to seemingly a few years

 

Artistically, an anthology series (or at least one that told a new story every season) would have made more sense. Commercially, not so much, so from their perspective I understand why Amazon went the way they did.

[Chen G. 2948]

I do, too! But you'd think having two shows - one about the Forging era and one about the Akallabeth era - would have made both more artistic sense AND more commercial sense.

 

I generally prefer cycles to anthologies.

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

The problem, and it's a real one, is that an anthology series (i.e. a new story every episode or two) would be considerably more expensive, and there just wouldn't be the opportunity for an audience to create any kind of real attachment to the stories or characters. Even if you just did a new story every season, you'd more or less have the same problem. Higher cost+lower ratings is probably something Amazon isn't interested in.

 

It occurs to me that Apple is trying something similar with Foundation...i.e. taking a story that takes place over millennia, condensing it, and making up a lot of stuff that isn't the books to try to tie it all together. I haven't watched the series (and have no intention to), so I'd be curious what Foundation fans think of how it's going.

[Chen G. 2948]

Meanwhile, the most Gandalf-like that Meteor Man has looked thus far:

 

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Meanwhile, the most Gandalf-like that Meteor Man has looked thus far:

 

 

WILSONNNNNN!

 

[Chen G. 2948]

Okay, I think this looks really beautiful: