Star Wars Disenchantment

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, Demodex said:

 

I don't know if he likes women, at least he doesn't like them in movies. 

 

Yeah but he can at least look at them, right?

 

Daisy Ridley's not exactly the most feminine gal you'll ever see in the SW movies, but she's still kinda cute in an odd sort of way I guess. Kelly Marie Tran's a stranger case though where she looks a bit chubby in the movie, but she looked great at the premieres.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

At this point, I will only remind you that I don't like poorly-written (and poorly-incorporated) characters - male or female. Unfortunately, I only ever really talk about the females.

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

2 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

 

You SW fans have no clue how good you've got it!

I think Williams fans have forgotten how dire the non-Williams Harry Potter days were

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Cough cough.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Nicolas Hooper FTW

[John 2,032]

The Desplat scores were great!

 

Edit: Guys, I’m not being ironic here. I think they’re really good scores. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

The sigh was wrongly suggestive. 

 

Removed.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

The first Deathly Hallows score was ok.  The second was less ok. Doyle's score is fine I guess.  

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

When we think Mattris is gone:

"Clear of hostiles"

When he shows up the next day:

"One hostile!"

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I think Williams fans have forgotten how dire the non-Williams Harry Potter days were

 

Thrown a fourth-rate Indiana Jones score like table scraps.

[SteveMc 2,674]

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

Well, at any rate, with every resurgence of this thread, calls another dance classic from the 80s and 90s, a time where everything--especially Star Wars was much better. We're going to bring it down a few notches today:

 

 

Love that number!  

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Hey Steve! How goes the search for the special someone?

[SteveMc 2,674]

3 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Hey Steve! How goes the search for the special someone?

Actually, I still have my eye on that classmate.  I've got to get creative, though.  The blonde dude and her are in another class together, I believe, so he's always walking away with her.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

Perhaps you can find an opening if you get to sit next to her during a lecture.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Hmmm. You must let go of everything you fear to loose. Only then can you woo said classmate.

[SteveMc 2,674]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

Perhaps you can find an opening if you get to sit next to her during a lecture.

We are creatures of habit there.  I always end up behind her, with the other guy in front, and to the side of her.  Maybe if I get there earlier....

 

2 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Hmmm. You must let go of everything you fear to loose. Only then can you woo said classmate.

I've got pretty much nothing to lose except my sanity. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Stay sane, yes.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I've lost all my sanity due to this constant pain and ringing in my ear...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How will you go on when you hear the damage is permanent?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I won't. I'll be dead.

 

Living with this for the next five decades of my life is not acceptable.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How liberal are your countries Euthanasia policies?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Terrible. I'll just overdose on painkillers or something.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We will mourn your passing, Paul!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why the hell do you and Quint keep calling me that? It's not my name.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

11 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said:

We are creatures of habit there.  I always end up behind her, with the other guy in front, and to the side of her.  Maybe if I get there earlier....

Have you talked to her before?

 

A good pick up line for a learning environment is:

"I was looking at the textbook and going over some numbers. I couldn't find yours, soooooo..."

[SteveMc 2,674]

Just now, Jerry said:

Have you talked to her before?

No.  Had half a chance on the first day of class, but couldn't bring myself to do it.

 

I'm so shy and awkward in person.

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

14 minutes ago, Jerry said:

A good pick up line for a learning environment is:

"I was looking at the textbook and going over some numbers. I couldn't find yours, soooooo..."

 

Have you performed quality assurance on that one?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

21 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Have you talked to her before?

 

A good pick up line for a learning environment is:

"I was looking at the textbook and going over some numbers. I couldn't find yours, soooooo..."

"Are you a beaver? Because DAAAAM, woman!" 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Have you performed quality assurance on that one?

There's an one hundred percent chance it's never worked, but that might just be me.

[Mattris 416]

On 9/7/2018 at 2:10 PM, Demodex said:

 

I don't know if he likes women, at least he doesn't like them in movies. 

 

Quote me. You have 40+ pages to work with.

 

On 9/7/2018 at 2:16 PM, Jerry said:

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

At this point, I will only remind you that I don't like poorly-written (and poorly-incorporated) characters - male or female. Unfortunately, I only ever really talk about the females.

 

How creative! You deliberately misquoted me. I "talk about the females" in TLJ because they were intended to be its 'feature' - always in control and/or strong. Every man in the film was portrayed as weak, foolish, confused, or back-stabbing. Obviously, this was by design. I already explained this.

 

Funny, you lot will post outbursts in response to my posts ('Mattris is back... uh!') but fail to debate me on my specific points. Simply contradicting me or saying you 'like the film' is weak. I challenge you to tell me why my specific criticisms are unfounded.

[SteveMc 2,674]

2 minutes ago, Mattris said:

How creative! You deliberately misquoted me.

We do it all the time around here.  Its called humor.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

55 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Funny, you lot will post outbursts in response to my posts ('Mattris is back... uh!') but fail to debate me on my specific points

 

Perhaps my post from earlier today might elucidate at least some of that behavior. 

 

Besides, you have no room to talk. Through all of your posts in _my_ thread,  _you_ have failed to answer any of my dance challenges!

 

 

 

[Mattris 416]

On 8/14/2018 at 8:54 AM, Jerry said:

I watched The Last Jedi again last night. It was great. 

 

It still feels like a cloud lies over it though, because it's hard not to think about all of those bashers and their comments. But that's the only thing that really takes away from it, so ignoring those thoughts, I sat down and took in the full 2 1/2 hours and I must say it's the same light of elation and excitement, amazement and -WOW- (WOW for that one scene especially) as I had when I first saw it. The moments people are pinning as divisive are only divisive because they make them to be. Leia floating through space while her theme whisks her away on piano is absolutely beautiful, especially in light of Carrie Fisher's death. Luke is touchy, but he justifies it all. There is some off humour, but it's still quite funny. The only movie I know that can really get away with humour just about anywhere is Pirates of the Caribbean. I don't get the plot sometimes, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Poe and Holdo jousting is actually a neat side plot, showing the riffs that exist even between the good guys. Poe would never have been in favour of Holdo's plan, even if she reasonably told it to him. He wanted to fight. The Canto Bight sequence is there, and it's nothing spectacular but it doesn't suck. The Justin Theroux cameo gets me everytime- "Not now lovey, I'm on a roll". Williams serves up some great music during this time too, so it's all good and well in my book. The movie is long, yes. Things like the Throne Room fight and the Battle of Crait are superb though, the highlights of the movie, along with others.

 

On a cinematic basis, it's very well shot, capturing super close ups, creating awesome images, relatively seamless panning and movement. Some shots are instant favourites.

 

It's a really great film. Not my favourite film, not my favourite Star Wars film, but very,very good.

 

- A cloud does lie over TLJ because it's purpose was to turn the Star Wars universe (and fandom) upside-down. "Kill it if you have to."

- A "wow" for that one scene, especially. Sure, I suppose. (Thank you, John Williams.) The only problems: Holdo waited too long to sacrifice herself to cripple the First Order Fleet - costing the lives of dozens of Resistance members... and the audience didn't understand - or care about - the woman.

- The moments people are pinning as divisive were designed to be that way. The film's many turns of events were meant to be unexpected... many would say, unwanted. Primarily, this what most fans (customers) are mad about... and also the accusations and insults from prominent Lucasfilm employees towards those critical of the film.

- Leia floating through space was shoe-horned-in by Kathleen Kennedy and has absolutely no bearing on the rest of the film. Her miraculous, Force survival was never brought up by anyone!

- Luke is touchy... and homicidal... and suicidal.

- There is some off humour... but almost every 'joke' seems awkward or forced.

- Poe and Holdo jousting was a neat side plot. And you're right, "Poe would never have been in favour of Holdo's plan", which was for the remaining Resistance ships to partake in a million-mile snail's pace chase (while being destroyed) to an abandoned Rebel base - that is without a back door or weapons - in hopes that a significant fighting force will come to their aid within minutes/hours. This was the worst plan imaginable. Poe was right all along. So what did he 'learn'? Patience? Subordination? The Resistance was reduced to a dozen fighters due to Leia/Holdo's 'leadership'. Why can't anyone admit that this is awful writing?

- The Canto Bight sequence is there, and it's nothing spectacular... and sucked badly. On-the-nose politics at every turn. Why couldn't DeeJay have been a Resistance prisoner? Perhaps it was because Rose needed her 15 minutes of fame... and an SJW adventure. (Once again, thank goodness for John Williams' music.)

- The Throne Room fight was confusing in countless ways. The Battle of Crait was hardly 'a battle'. A self-sacrifice by Finn would have surely been one of the most memorable (and emotional) scenes in the trilogy - and would have significantly impacted the plot. Instead, we got an altruistic (unrealistic) Rose Tico intervention. Highlights? More like low-lights.

 

On a cinematic basis, the film is very well shot. I'll give you that. But good visuals, a few good scenes, and a good score does not mean that the movie is good.

 

On 8/19/2018 at 9:05 AM, Steve McQueen said:

Texas is hot most of the time, but it is not really a bad place.  There's some very nice spots.

 

Make no mistake. Texas is a beacon of the world.

 

On 8/19/2018 at 4:08 PM, Nick1066 said:

Kathleen Kennedy: Nice to meet with you Rian. JJ tells me good things about you. I really liked Hooper.

Ryan Johnson: Looper.

KK: Whatever. So what's your vision for Episode VIII?

RJ: Well Kathy, I'd like to make a film that serves as a deconstruction of Star Wars and its tropes.

KK: "Deconstruct Star Wars?" You want to deconstruct the most beloved film series of all time? Do you think the fans will go for that?

RJ: Absolutely. 

KK: Good enough for me. You're hired!

 

I think it went more like this:

 

Kathleen Kennedy: Nice to meet with you, Rian. After the success of The Force Awakens, Disney has given me complete creative control over Episode 8. I hear that you're willing to write the film with numerous strong female characters and give the audience some surprises.

Ryan Johnson: Yup. I'm your man - I mean... person. Did you see the videos of me saying that dividing my audience excites me... and that I like stealing from other writers?

KK: That's why I called you here, Rian. Have your script completed ASAP and we'll turn Star Wars on it's head!

RJ: Yeah! I'm so excited!

 

(TLJ is completed. KK is so pleased with the film that she decides to give RJ a SW Trilogy.)

 

RJ: Hey Kathleen, can we announce the news before the TLJ hits theaters? You know, for extra hype?

KK: Great idea!

 

On 8/29/2018 at 11:47 AM, Nick Parker said:

Reading the YouTube comments on Plinkett's review, once again I'm reminded of how amusing so many of people's derisions of this movie, its makers, and the people who enjoy it are. All the accusations of people who like it being childish, not liking their mind challenged, and not Star Wars fans. Very cute stuff. 

 

Plinkett's review was amusing and spot-on. The majority of the fans are right. Though, I will never say that 'those who like TLJ are not SW fans'.

 

On 8/29/2018 at 12:19 PM, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

I first saw the movie back in March when I bought it on blu-ray. I thought it was okay, but not worth the disproportionate thrashing it received. Then I saw it on its cable TV premiere and noticed a bunch of stuff that I thought was cleverly done like Luke's depression fueled by his regrets and his insecurities about his inability to live up to this false vision evoked by the "legend" of himself (a sly hint at the "Legends" timeline?). His failures obviously led to his struggle with his feelings of impotence, in a manner of speaking.

 

This is not what was portrayed in the film. Luke made one mistake: He let his nephew turn to the Dark Side. We were not told why he chose to seclude himself forever. See here: https://movieweb.com/last-jedi-luke-story-mark-hamill-doesnt-understand/

 

On 8/31/2018 at 10:39 AM, Demodex said:

The original had a strong female character and the male leads are either whiny or made to look dumb. I mean just listen to Han's conversation on the intercom in the cell block!

Lucas obviously had a feminist agenda!

 

Wrong.

 

Leia was born into service in a war-torn galaxy - a princess who could hold her own in battle, as well as a debate. With her previous war experience, she realized that she needed to take the lead in escaping the cell block, as well as trust her rescuers.

 

Han was a brash, selfish smuggler who eventually showed that he had a heart of gold... and came to the rescue when his new friends needed him most.

 

Luke was a whiny, ignorant farm boy. But as a skilled pilot, and with Obi-Wan's instruction and guidance from the Force, he was able to take the kill shot that destroyed the Death Star.

 

These are examples of character development - progression that occurs over the course of the film. Can anyone tell me how Rey (and the other new characters) have progressed over the course of two films?

[John 2,032]

I feel sorry for you. 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Though, I will never say that 'those who like TLJ are not SW fans'.

 

Thank you. 

 

 

[Mattris 416]

3 hours ago, John said:

I feel sorry for you. 

 

It's clear that those in charge of Star Wars have a new direction. It is not to create content that will satisfy most people or make the most money. It is not even about re-writing history or "raping our childhood". Kathleen Kennedy is using the massively-popular Star Wars franchise as the vehicle to further her social/political agenda... to alter peoples' perceptions, expectations, and values. Most fans have picked up on this. I feel sorry for any who have not.

To those who like TLJ:

 

You are not necessarily unintelligent. But you either have very low standards for SW... or you have a lot of cognitive dissonance and feel the need to defend the movie just because it's official Star Wars and features a John Williams score. You don't want to dislike it, but deep down, you know it's a deliberately divisive film, and terrible sequel... and poor (but high-budget!) piece of movie-making.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

10 minutes ago, Mattris said:

You are not necessarily unintelligent. But you either have very low standards for SW... or you have a lot of cognitive dissonance and feel the need to defend the movie just because it's official Star Wars and features a John Williams score. You don't want to dislike it, but deep down, you know it's a deliberately, divisive film, and terrible sequel... and poor (but high-budget!) piece of movie-making.

 

This is an unfortunate turn for you, amigo. You're a smart and articulate man, please do justice to your intellect and refrain from such silly remarks that amount to "I know how you truly think, I know your real reasons for you thinking and feeling how you do" . It's unbecoming of you.

 

This thread is starting to feel like:

 

 

 

(In terms of tone, not anything about "winning" or "losing")

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

...but fail to debate me on my specific points.

Oh, so you've noticed. You realize that we've stopped trying a long time ago because we know that it simply doesn't amount to anything. You call for debate but you refuse to hear the other side. I would like to echo @John in saying that I feel sorry that this supposed drastic turn in the Star Wars saga is such an instilling, life-affecting, deeply rooted issue for you. I hope that you may one day take it for what it is (a fictional film series and while I love it with the greatest appreciation even I can recognize that no matter how it turns it will always be special to me).

 

The funny thing is that you know The Last Jedi so well I might even suppose that you've watched it a gazillion times, to which one might think that you actually like it now and simply refuse to turn back on your former points. Star Wars is great and I'm a huge nerd for it, but anyone who's concerned about it as much as you is missing the mark of cinematic fandom and perhaps, with all due respect,  what's really important in life in general.

 

I don't want you to like The Last Jedi and I don't want you to continue to watch the movies against your will. I want you to understand that this is not everything. Good evening to you and pray don't reply the way you have always.

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

deep down, you know it's a deliberately, divisive film, and terrible sequel... and poor (but high-budget!) piece of movie-making.

 

I do?  

 

Sorry, you actually just described the prequels.  TLJ was a pretty fun movie. 

[Mattris 416]

23 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

This is an unfortunate turn for you, amigo. You're a smart and articulate man, please do justice to your intellect and refrain from such silly remarks that amount to "I know how you truly think, I know your real reasons for you thinking and feeling how you do" . It's unbecoming of you.

 

Correct. I don't know how others think. So I supposed that the other explanation for those that defend/praise/truly like TLJ is that they have very low standards for Star Wars. As I have explained in detail, the film has dozens of issues, ranging from awkward lines/scenes to major story and character deficiencies. I admit that a film can be bad - or severely flawed - but still enjoyable.

 

23 hours ago, Jerry said:

Oh, so you've noticed. You realize that we've stopped trying a long time ago because we know that it simply doesn't amount to anything. You call for debate but you refuse to hear the other side. I would like to echo @John in saying that I feel sorry that this supposed drastic turn in the Star Wars saga is such an instilling, life-affecting, deeply rooted issue for you. I hope that you may one day take it for what it is (a fictional film series and while I love it with the greatest appreciation even I can recognize that no matter how it turns it will always be special to me).

 

The funny thing is that you know The Last Jedi so well I might even suppose that you've watched it a gazillion times, to which one might think that you actually like it now and simply refuse to turn back on your former points. Star Wars is great and I'm a huge nerd for it, but anyone who's concerned about it as much as you is missing the mark of cinematic fandom and perhaps, with all due respect,  what's really important in life in general.

 

I don't want you to like The Last Jedi and I don't want you to continue to watch the movies against your will. I want you to understand that this is not everything. Good evening to you and pray don't reply the way you have always.

 

I thoroughly disputed your praise of the film. Perhaps these posts won't amount to anything. But I choose to engage with anyone in this Star Wars Disenchantment topic, especially those who address me personally. How have I refused to hear the other side? We simply disagree. Lately, I have seen very little push-back in response to my specific critiques. If you won't take the time to explain why you think I'm wrong, I have to assume that you aren't willing to take the time... or that you are unable to.

 

This "drastic turn in the Star Wars saga is such an instilling, life-affecting, deeply rooted issue for" millions of Star Wars fans. The biggest entertainment company in the world acquired Lucasfilm. Fans were excited for what was to come! With the deepest pockets, the best writers and directors could have been hired. But clearly, that's not what's happening. To most fans, these films are underwhelming. TFA was a re-hash, and TLJ was deliberately divisive.

 

The bigger picture is that, for the majority of Star Wars fans, this behavior from Lucasfilm is simply unacceptable. No customer in their right mind will pay a company that seemingly dismisses their decades-long support, insults their intelligence... and who's employees literally insult them. Major changes are coming. Mark my words.

 

21 hours ago, Demodex said:

I do?  

 

Sorry, you actually just described the prequels.  TLJ was a pretty fun movie. 

 

I'm not upset with the prequels. At the very least, they represented George Lucas' vision.

 

You'll have to do better than "TLJ was a pretty fun movie" to have any sway here, Demodex... especially after you said that I have a problem with strong female characters and don't quote me.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

- Luke is touchy... and suicidal.

 

This is why I find Luke very relatable in TLJ.

[Mattris 416]

Another misquote. I said "Luke is touchy... and homicidal... and suicidal." He considered killing his nephew in cold blood. Never forget: This was the scene that broke the sequel trilogy.

[Demodex 557]

He considered it, for the greater good, but he couldn't go through with it. So what?  Obi-Wan expected him to kill his father, or else " the Emporer has already won."  I don't see how anything in TLJ does a disservice to Luke's character. He was the best one in the movie. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

especially after you said that I have a problem with strong female characters and don't quote me.

 

Oh for fucks sakes.  You started off this thread bitching about how TLJ had a feminist agenda, citing strong female characters as evidence. Are you denying this?  I'm surely not the only person here who read your posts that you've now forgotten about. 

 

And stop saying most Star Wars fans are unhappy with the new trilogy, because you're the only one I've come across so far.  It's a vocal minority of whiny bitches you are associating with.  Go cry more. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

25 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Another misquote. I said "Luke is touchy... and homicidal... and suicidal." He considered killing his nephew in cold blood. Never forget: This was the scene that broke the sequel trilogy.

 

I didn't misquote you, I shortened it. Because I find Luke's deathwish highly relatable.

[Holko 9,531]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

So I supposed that those who truly like TLJ have very low standards for Star Wars.

Well, you're right. I suppose I did have low standards: I wanted it to entertain me, and continue the story in a satisfactory way. And it did that.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

How have I refused to hear the other side?

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

He considered killing his nephew in cold blood.

 

Ahem...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

7 hours ago, Mattris said:

Make no mistake. Texas is a beacon of the world.

 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

So I supposed that those who truly like TLJ have very low standards for Star Wars. 

 

My larger point was it's not good rhetoric to assume this sort of thing. If anything, saying "having low standards" is more condescending than "not a true fan".

[Arpy 4,145]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

Another misquote. I said "Luke is touchy... and homicidal... and suicidal." He considered killing his nephew in cold blood. Never forget: This was the scene that broke the sequel trilogy.

It broke it? I don't remember finding pieces of The Last Jedi and Force Awakens under my sofa...

 

I'm pretty sure that Luke going as far to try and murder his nephew was what made his character interesting, that he went down such a dark path. The fallout from that made him lose faith in the Jedi way. Wasn't all this obvious? 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Sigh.

[Chen G. 3,950]

3 hours ago, Arpy said:

I'm pretty sure that Luke going as far to try and murder his nephew was what made his character interesting, that he went down such a dark path. The fallout from that made him lose faith in the Jedi way. Wasn't all this obvious? 

 

I can see how it could feel a bit out-of-character for some.

 

I don't mind it, but I can see how others will.