Star Wars Disenchantment

[Pellaeon 593]

13 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

Even the prequel haters of the past want Ewan MGregor back for Obi Wan: A Star Wars Story.

 

I feel nothing.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

3 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

More and more these days ...

 

Even the prequel haters of the past want Ewan MGregor back for Obi Wan: A Star Wars Story.

I do.

3 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

From a certain point of view.

Let's not start.

 

[Mattris 416]

12 hours ago, Jerry said:

 

Kylo Ren is evil. The good that was in him is gone. What Rey saw in him, as @Chen G. will tell you, was an illusion to bring her to him, whether it be to defeat Snoke and his guards or to ultimately turn Rey, or a combination of both. He was not hesitant to kill his father, hesitant to kill his mother but ultimately forgetting her, not hesitant to kill Luke, now extremely hateful of the Resistance. Very little indication has been shown that there is indeed light in him. 

 

Ben Solo being Luke's nephew, it would be hard for him to kill him, naturally. Luke had been training Ben Solo, and others, for a while it seems. If they did not heed and follow his wisdom of the light side then, and he could see that even after their training in the light they were overcome with darkness, it shows that even despite all the training and work of Luke into his Jedi academy was not enough to overpower the darkness of Snoke, who influenced Ben Solo from afar. Perhaps when Luke looked into his mind he saw the death of Han, Resistance ships exploding, the Hosnian system destroyed, his temple in flames. It was a complete and utter disgrace and disappointment as a reflection of all he had attempted to accomplish.

 

Luke tried to follow Yoda's words to pass on what he had learned. And despite pouring himself into a new generation of Jedi for the Force knows how long, still they turned to darkness. He failed, or as Rey put, Kylo failed him. Luke attempting to turn Ben would only result in perhaps more pain. Luke couldn't bring himself to kill him, but it was too late for anything else.

 

Don't try to rewrite The Last Jedi, bud.

Original meme by Jerry, the former illustrious. Circa 2018.

 

We are shown Kylo Ren doing some evil things... but the audience doesn't really know why is his doing these things. Because of Snoke's remote convincing? Because he doesn't like his parents? That's it? This is weak storytelling, to say the least. I understand that this is Part 2 of a trilogy, but TLJ is incomplete, unclear, and poorly executed as its own film.

 

Kylo was hesitant to kill his father. He could have struck Han down instantly (or Force-pushed him off of the walkway) but chose to hold a conversation... and looked to have been turned back to the light before the 'darkness' came over him and he struck... with remorse in his eyes.

 

Klyo could have killed his mother, but we were visually shown his inner conflict, and the opportunity passed.

 

Immediately after the betrayal incident at Luke's academy, Kylo could have made sure Luke had been killed - but didn't... or chose to let him live.

 

On Crait, we don't know exactly what was going through Kylo's mind, but I don't think he really expected to kill Luke Skywalker with blaster canons or a one-on-one lightsaber duel. He thought maybe Luke had come in an attempt "to save [his] soul"... but completely fell for the trap, which wasted precious time and allowed the remaining Resistance fighters to escape.

 

Furthermore, it's likely that Kylo knew that engaging Luke could risk the First Order's opportunity to wipe out the Resistance - but chose to do it anyway. In the back of his mind, he knew that Leia and Rey would be killed if he ignored Luke and pressed the attack.

 

We are not told why Kylo is "extremely hateful of the Resistance" or why he is so angry and destructive. "Very little indication has been shown that there is indeed light in" Kylo, but 'the good guys' will do all they can to stop... or ultimately save him.

 

Ben Solo being Luke's nephew, it would be hard for him to kill him, naturally.    Luke Skywalker would never kill anyone in cold blood... and should not have been shown even considering carrying out such a dastardly act.

 

... was not enough to overpower the darkness of Snoke, who influenced Ben Solo from afar. Perhaps when Luke looked into his mind he saw the death of Han, Resistance ships exploding, the Hosnian system destroyed, his temple in flames. It was a complete and utter disgrace and disappointment as a reflection of all he had attempted to accomplish.

 

An excellent plot element... completely wasted when Luke was written to consider killing Ben (in his sleep) in the chance that the evil events he saw could be avoided. This was utterly disgraceful writing from Rian Johnson, who clearly does not understand the character of Luke Skywalker, which had been established in the Original Trilogy.

 

Luke attempting to turn Ben would only result in perhaps more pain. Luke couldn't bring himself to kill him, but it was too late for anything else.

 

Wrong. After Force-probing Ben's mind, he could have saved (some of) his students and gone to the Leia and the Resistance for help. But instead we got a creepy, bedside, lightsaber-wielding Luke in which his life came crashing down on him - literally.

 

Your meme's THAN should be THEN, bud.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I asked you if you watched Twelve Angry Men and Groundhog's Day, @Mattris, because when you combine those two movies you get the general conversation surrounding The Last Jedi. Seriously, how many times do you want to argue this stuff? What are you trying to accomplish by bringing these things up time and time again?

 

At this point, the only real thing I don't know is why people hate Rose so much, calling her worse than Jar Jar.  I know the SJW crap (and Holy Mother Mary please let's not dive into that again), but is that it? Why is she such an awful character?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,345]

She stole Rey's boyfriend!

[Chen G. 3,964]

20 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

At this point, the only real thing I don't know is why people hate Rose so much, calling her worse than Jar Jar.  I know the SJW crap (and Holy Mother Mary please let's not dive into that again), but is that it? Why is she such an awful character?

 

I don’t think that’s the issue. It’s just the character and the way the part is acted. Not a huge issue for me (my issue is more with the subplot itself) but I can see what issues others can have with the characters.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It’s just the character

 

What about the character? 

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

the way the part is acted

 

I don't know if that's why people want to burn effigies of Rian Johnson for writing the worst Star Wars character ever, but I've definitely heard that complaint. Which of course is fair enough. I like Kelly Marie Tran, I've enjoyed her in all the things I've seen her in, and even if I didn't like the character I think she did a good job, but I can see how her performance could rub people the wrong way.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

 

Your meme's THAT should be THEN, bud.

 

THAN* bud

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

I asked you if you watched Twelve Angry Men and Groundhog's Day, @Mattris, because when you combine those two movies you get the general conversation surrounding The Last Jedi. Seriously, how many times do you want to argue this stuff? What are you trying to accomplish by bringing these things up time and time again?

 

At this point, the only real thing I don't know is why people hate Rose so much, calling her worse than Jar Jar.  I know the SJW crap (and Holy Mother Mary please let's not dive into that again), but is that it? Why is she such an awful character?

 

I haven't seen 12 Angry Men. Groundhog's Day? Many times. Your statement suggests that those involved in this discussion refuse to think critically or consider others' opinions and perspectives. Throughout dozens of posts, I've explained why I - and most TLJ's detractors - despise the film... and why Rose and Holdo are awful characters. Go back and read them.

 

On 5/30/2018 at 11:43 AM, Nick Parker said:

Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi is awesome, and a very inspiring character.

 

Elaborate on this statement, if you please.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I haven't seen 12 Angry Men. Groundhog's Day? Many times. Your statement suggests that those involved in this discussion refuse to think critically or consider others' opinions and perspectives. Throughout dozens of posts, I've explained why I - and most TLJ's detractors - despise the film... and why Rose and Holdo are awful characters. Go back and read them.

 

No, my statement explicitly said--not suggested--that this all is just a cyclical debate with the same crap being brought up ad nauseam. Good lord, do you think anyone needs to read a sentence that contains "betrayal of Luke Skywalker's character in the OT" ever again? I've read that line variation more often on the Internet in the last year than the total sum of all calories from a daily McDonald's food inventory in the last decade.   Sweet dolphin-hunting Jesus.

 

I don't know how you and similarly inclined people aren't bored of it.

 

27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Elaborate on this statement, if you please.

 

I already did, at least once, in this thread, if I'm not mistaken. I'll only add a coda in saying that without wishing to get too personal, I found it very inspiring that Luke Skywalker was a hero down and out by his own folly, thrown in the towel. In the end, though, he confronts his own inner fears, feelings of shame, remorse, and guilt, and finds his way once more, with a renewed conviction and sense of purpose. I can relate, at this current moment in my life.

 

That's the last I will give you. 

[Holko 9,539]

Buh... Buhhh... But he didn't keep enabling the dangerous psycopath waiting for his death, neither did he blow up the FO fleet in his X-Wing or kill everyone with his lightsaber! Character assassination!!!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

8 minutes ago, Holko said:

Character assasination!!!

 

Character assassination? What this thread needs is a dance floor assassination! We gonna take it out like it were on a grassy knoll!

 

 

 

 

 

[Mattris 416]

 

On 7/31/2018 at 1:03 AM, Nick Parker said:

 

... I found it very inspiring that Luke Skywalker was a hero down and out by his own folly, thrown in the towel. In the end, though, he confronts his own inner fears, feelings of shame, remorse, and guilt, and finds his way once more, with a renewed conviction and sense of purpose.

 

What you wrote sounds inspirational, and if executed correctly, could have been a noble 'end' to Luke Skywalker's story for most SW fans. But what was presented in TLJ - and how it was presented - was utterly disappointing to many.   [How inconvenient that Force-lightning-capable Yoda showed up to give Luke a morale-boosting / convincing pep-talk immediately after Rey had given up on him and left... without Lesson #3.    Because Finn-controlling Rose Tico stopped the door-busting weapon from being damaged/destroyed, Luke had to intervene (sacrifice himself) to distract Kylo so that Leia and the Resistance could escape with the help of Mary Sue on-the-spot Rey.]

 

Regardless of the topic's current title, this is the place to engage those with "Star Wars Disenchantment". I didn't make you respond to me, so you shouldn't be outwardly bothered that I continue to post. You "explicitly said ... that this all is just a cyclical debate with the same crap being brought up ad nauseam" after you asked me: "Why is [Rose] such an awful character?" So without boring, tiring, or angering you by writing out the reasons again, I reminded you that I had explained previously. You admitted the existence of the "SJW crap". I'll add that Rose's character and dialog was poorly written from a story-telling perspective. But at least she got a scene to mourn her sister's death. (That's more than Luke got to mourn Han's murder by his former student.)

 

Passionate, upset SW fans will continue to express their thoughts, opinions, and disappointments - including that TLJ showed "the betrayal of Luke Skywalker's character", as well as the other major issues with these new films - and not buy SW movie tickets and merchandise until it those in charge of Disney act to improve the current state of SW. Many feel that Disney should 'clean house' at Lucasfilm... more specifically, fire Kathleen Kennedy and her feminist/SJW story group. Then with limitless pocketbooks, Disney can hire the best writers, producers, and directors in the world to make engaging, dramatic SW movies with intriguing characters and stories that honor the development and themes from the OT and PT.

 

Also, it wouldn't hurt to stop generalizing/insulting the fans (racist, sexist, manbabies). Is that too much to ask? One would assume that Disney would want a maximum return on their investment. If that's their goal, they cannot stay on the same path. Moving forward, those in charge at Lucasfilm are making a big mistake if they think producing agenda-driven, unwanted, mediocre (but high-budget!) films will be profitable and accepted by the majority of fans. This is indisputable.

 

We will see what happens in the next 17 months and in Episode 9. I want the film to be a worthy conclusion to the trilogy and saga. But after a too-safe reboot (TFA) and a convoluted embarrassment (TLJ), I won't get my hopes up.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Have we reached peak-overthink on SW?

[Chen G. 3,964]

If by reach you mean flew right over.

 

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

I want the film to be a worthy conclusion to the trilogy and saga.

 

I would say you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm expecting a fine film, but it should be said most concluding films fail to even be all that satisfying within the prospect of concluding their respective trilogy. But for this film - with the change of directors, Fisher's death and fan backlash - to wrap up the entire ennealogy? I would like that to happen, and I think it should, but I don't have almost any hope that its gonna.



Besides, concluding the entire ennealogy would mean a fair bit of references to the prequel trilogy (which the Disney's films did so far, but sparingly) and trying to find a throughline to that trilogy as well which is a) very tricky (especially due to Lucas' wonky continuity) and b) something that I doubt Disney will even attempt.



Its also something that, if attempted without some of the most efficient screenwriting in cinema history, would bog the film down.

[Nick1Ø66 4,730]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

 I won't get my hopes up.

 

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I would say you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

Hmmmmmmm. 

 

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I would like that to happen, but I don't have much hope that its gonna.

 

Star Wars movies are built on hope!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

34 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Have we reached peak-overthink on SW?

 

I thought that already occurred when the prequels came out and people were going on and on in elaborate essays, websites and YouTube videos why they were bad.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

Regardless of the topic's current title, this is the place to engage those with "Star Wars Disenchantment". I didn't make you respond to me, so you shouldn't be outwardly bothered that I continue to post. You "explicitly said ... that this all is just a cyclical debate with the same crap being brought up ad nauseam" after you asked me: "Why is [Rose] such an awful character?" So without boring, tiring, or angering you by writing out the reasons again, I reminded you that I had explained previously. You admitted the existence of the "SJW crap". I'll add that Rose's character and dialog was very poorly written from a story-telling perspective. 

 

I'll actually respond to this one, I can see how I might need to clarify. I get what you're saying about my Rose question (which I asked as open question, not one posed directly to you), but when I thought about all of the stuff I know people dislike or hate about The Last Jedi, that one (particularly in regards to just how much vitriol people have towards it) was one I couldn't formulate an answer to, so I figured why not ask and see if I get something fresh that I might've missed in the deluge.

 

In general, though, you do this really cute thing where you exhibit extremely dogged behavior, and when people act frustrated or annoyed, you frame it in a way where it's that person's fault. "Gee shucks and golly, I'm just trying to have a level-headed discussion, and here you meanieheads come in acting all rude and uncivil."  You then use this stance to further discredit "the opposition", and pat yourself on the back in an act of astonishing lack of self-awareness. (I wonder if you'll do the same with this post).

 

You're right in that you don't make anyone respond to you, but if you kick a dog and the dog bites in response, instead of just dismissing it as their fault/problem, ever think it might be valuable to wonder why it bit you?

 

Now before you misconstrue that, I'll conclude with this: I don't have a problem that you continue to post. What I have a problem is you constantly invite posters to get into a debate that's been had so many times...it comes off like you just can't wait to totally school that person with paragraphs to deliberately formulated ideas, which is fine and dandy except for the fact that at this point, we've heard all the angles, we know where all this stuff is headed. Ever see an atheist and a theist, particularly a religious one, argue? I get very similar vibes here.

 

While I'm not a fan of you as a poster, I don't dislike you: I hope you're a good person in the "real world", and I wish you have a fulfilling life with a good relationship with yourself, your family, and those around you.

 

To everything else in your post:

 

 

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

9 hours ago, Mattris said:

...(Diluted trash and miscellaneous argumentative nonsense)...

Your meme's THAN should be THEN, bud.

How dare you insult Jerry, the meme master, regarding his memes. Yeah, my grammar has been known to not work out all the time.

 

Mattris mate. You know the view I watch Star Wars movies with is with  the same pure and raw excitement that I had with the first one. If you approach Star Wars like a disillusioned adult, Star Wars will be sadly twisted for you because you gnaw at the plot, the characters, and the ideas instead of accepting it for what it is and embracing it. I feel for you sometimes Mattris, because your vision is clouded. I hope one day you can celebrate in Star Wars with the appreciation of a child, eagerly awaiting the next one and passing the time between films playing with his Star Wars legos. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

14 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I hope one day you can celebrate in Star Wars with the appreciation of a child, eagerly awaiting the next one and passing the time between films playing with his Star Wars legos. 

 

As opposed to the Second Coming. 

[Mattris 416]

12 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

I'll actually respond to this one, I can see how I might need to clarify. I get what you're saying about my Rose question (which I asked as open question, not one posed directly to you), but when I thought about all of the stuff I know people dislike or hate about The Last Jedi, that one (particularly in regards to just how much vitriol people have towards it) was one I couldn't formulate an answer to, so I figured why not ask and see if I get something fresh that I might've missed in the deluge.

 

In general, though, you do this really cute thing where you exhibit extremely dogged behavior, and when people act frustrated or annoyed, you frame it in a way where it's that person's fault. "Gee shucks and golly, I'm just trying to have a level-headed discussion, and here you meanieheads come in acting all rude and uncivil."  You then use this stance to further discredit "the opposition", and pat yourself on the back in an act of astonishing lack of self-awareness. (I wonder if you'll do the same with this post).

 

You're right in that you don't make anyone respond to you, but if you kick a dog and the dog bites in response, instead of just dismissing it as their fault/problem, ever think it might be valuable to wonder why it bit you?

 

Now before you misconstrue that, I'll conclude with this: I don't have a problem that you continue to post. What I have a problem is you constantly invite posters to get into a debate that's been had so many times...it comes off like you just can't wait to totally school that person with paragraphs to deliberately formulated ideas, which is fine and dandy except for the fact that at this point, we've heard all the angles, we know where all this stuff is headed. Ever see an atheist and a theist, particularly a religious one, argue? I get very similar vibes here.

 

While I'm not a fan of you as a poster, I don't dislike you: I hope you're a good person in the "real world", and I wish you have a fulfilling life with a good relationship with yourself, your family, and those around you.

 

 

Regarding Rose Tico's shortcomings as a character (and her integration into TLJ), I already posted in length in this topic. If you "missed" my dozens of posts "in the deluge", you're welcome to revisit them.

 

Contrary to its current title, this the Star Wars Disenchantment topic. So pardon me for "exhibit[ing] extremely dogged behavior" when most contributors are refuting me at every turn. People are free to "act frustrated or annoyed" - if one decides to post at all, but their behavior is their own. Blaming me for others' frustrations and vitriol is just an attempt to excuse them or skirt them of their responsibility for their own posts.

 

"Rude and uncivil" in this topic? That's an understatement. "I'm done arguing with Mattris. He's crazy." I was called an "incel" with a "small penis". Another labeled me a sexist "kitten" who acted offended that I didn't like on-the-nose "forced child labor" in TLJ - even when that's (factually) not what was shown in the film. I'm not even nearly the worst offender of "discrediting" people or being "dismiss[ive]". But moving forward, I will respect people's opinions... and I expect the same in return.

 

Moving on... It does bother me that the topic title was changed. I assume this was done to derail - or possibly delegitimize or demote - the conversation from hard-hitting Star Wars critique/conversation to just "hostility". (Hopefully, John or another administrator will change the title back.)

 

"If you kick a dog and the dog bites in response, instead of just dismissing it as their fault/problem, ever think it might be valuable to wonder why it bit you?" This sounds like the current situation between Lucasfilm and the fans. (In this metaphor, the dog is the SW fans.)

 

I estimate that the SW fanbase is evenly split between those that genuinely like (or love) the new films, casual fans that are largely indifferent, and those the dislike (or hate) them. What a mess Lucasfilm has created!

 

You say, "we've heard all the angles, we know where all this stuff is headed." But you haven't, and you don't. I encourage you to stay tuned... and others sitting on the sideline that are concerned (or pleased) with the state of SW to chime in. No need to call anyone "the opposition".

 

While I don't think you've fully understood me "as a poster", Nick, I certainly don't dislike you either. I wish you all the best, as well.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

 

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I wish you all the best, as well

 

Thank you!

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

So this is just another Star Wars thread? Might as well surrender the forum to Disney.

[Mattris 416]

Never!

 

In this interview, Kathleen Kennedy admits that hiring women (in front of and behind the camera) to appeal to female fans and potential new fans is her primary objective as president of Lucasfilm. Great stories, compelling characters, honoring George Lucas legacy, male fans, older fans, and fans of the OT be damned!

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why do people keep wanting Kennedys "outta the way"?

[Mattris 416]

Well, for starters...

 

 

[Holko 9,539]

Oh hey, we're back to linking circlejerk Youtube videos instead of explaining our own reasons!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

18 minutes ago, Holko said:

Oh hey, we're back to linking circlejerk Youtube videos instead of explaining our own reasons!

 

This thread is currently busy. You can come back later if you prefer, or you can stay in the thread and hold. And get down to the mix. Thank you for your patience. (Para continuar en español oprima nueve)

 

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

Ha! What ridiculous drivel. Like removing Kennedy is going to solve anything.

 

On her point about hiring more women, I half agree: it should be based on experience, qualifications and merit, yet those things can't be measured if there aren't any women populating those roles. That could also be down to women not wanting to go into those roles, which should be taken into consideration also.

 

 

[Mattris 416]

47 minutes ago, Holko said:

Oh hey, we're back to linking circlejerk Youtube videos instead of explaining our own reasons!

 

No list of reasons is going to be unique. I could have taken the time to remember and type-out (or copy-paste) a 'reason compilation', but decided to post a video.

 

John Campea is hardly part of the 'anti- new SW circlejerk'. Even since Kennedy was handed the keys to the castle, Campea has been known as one of the most vocal/watched Star Wars/Lucasfilm shills on Youtube. Posting this video was a big moment for him. Regarding the current state of SW, he either came to his senses... or is just placating 'the opposition' so as not to continue turning-off (or completely loose) a significant portion of the SW fans. Either way, his reasons for Kennedy's removal/stepping-down are valid.

[Holko 9,539]

In the time it took for you to type out the career progression of a youtuber I don't care about who uploaded a video you linked and I didn't watch, you could've articulated at least two logical, valid reasons why she's the spawn of Satan and removing her from Lucasfilm will bring salvation upon our race.

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

Ha! What ridiculous drivel. Like removing Kennedy is going to solve anything.

 

On her point about hiring more women, I half agree: it should be based on experience, qualifications and merit, yet those things can't be measured if there aren't any women populating those roles. That could also be down to women not wanting to go into those roles, which should be taken into consideration also.

 

 

 

All of Kennedy's hires in the Lucasfilm Story Group (including Pablo Hidalgo) should go too, as they are part of the problem. Chuck Wendig, one of the most prominent SW novelists, is an embarrassment to SW... and professional writers everywhere. Reading his Twitter feed makes you wonder how he got his job. And to top it off, he disrespects his (potential) customers. Sound familiar? If KK goes, his contract should be terminated immediately. Clean house.

 

1 hour ago, Holko said:

In the time it took for you to type out the career progression of a youtuber I don't care about who uploaded a video you linked and I didn't watch, you could've articulated at least two logical, valid reasons why she's the spawn of Satan and removing her from Lucasfilm will bring salvation upon our race.

 

I've typed a lot today (and had to complete re-type one of my long posts due to a technical issue), so please excuse me for taking a break. Watch the video. It was well written and explains why KK is must go ASAP.

[Arpy 4,145]

'An embarrassment to Star Wars'...

 

@Mattris why don't you think about what you just said and then realize it's inane and childish.

 

Look, there may be something to be said about the 'Disney-fication' of the franchise, but beyond Disney slapping Star Wars logos on everything and doing what they always do, the people behind the production of the films have always had a vested interest in the legacy of the saga. Having Lucas and Kasdan around was part of the initiative to keep Star Wars 'in the family'. I think it's the case with the backlash that the few films they produced didn't hit audiences the way either of them wanted, but not every film is going to be a solid, robust work of art. With the best intentions, shit can still go south.

[Mattris 416]

The current situation has gone far beyond "the Disney-fication' of the franchise". The "shit" has gone so far South, KK and her goons are among the penguins as we speak!

 

Chuck Wendig is an embarrassment to Star Wars. Have you read his worst Tweets? He tries to be funny, but he's just comes across as a laughing stock... a man that's lost his grip on reality... and what makes a business or product successful. Star Wars employees should conduct themselves with professionalism and respect for their customers at all times.

 

Lucas and Kasdan had absolutely nothing to do with TLJ. It's likely that JJ had little - or no - control over the direction of its story. Ruin Johnson went on record saying he wants to make movies that divide the audience. So we can safely assume he never had "the best intentions". In any case, those in charge of this trilogy didn't begin with an overall vision. They are making up this crap as they go.

 

I understand that "not every film is going to be a solid, robust work of art". Most fans will agree that Rouge One was an ok installment. But for a significant percentage of SW fans, the re-hash of A New Hope (TFA), the convoluted agenda-driven mess (TLJ), and the disjointed bomb-of-a-movie not many wanted (Solo) will not be remembered as worthy entries in the franchise.

 

"... the people behind the production of the films have always had a vested interest in the legacy of the saga."  After watching TLJ and the KK video I embedded, do you really believe that? The Force Is Female, and so is the legacy of the saga! Or so they would like the fans to accept like good sheep.

 

When has George Lucas been "around" the production of these movies? It's been quite the opposite. He wanted to be involved but quickly realized the new owners had their own agenda, so he had to exit the company entirely since he "would just muck it up."

 

It's clear to me that KK's personal agenda-driven priorities do not line up with the SW fans (customers) or the interests of Disney's shareholders who are looking at the bottom-line. It would be in the interest of Disney to course-correct, as billions of dollars - and a massive, passionate fanbase - are on the line.

[Holko 9,539]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Johnson went on record saying he wants to make movies that divide the audience

 

Yeah, but in what context did he say that? What did he mean by it? If you try and make a movie everyone will like, it will be either a huge royal mess, or a bland mush of nothingness.

[Arpy 4,145]

KK is one short of a K, eh?

 

This is sensationalist nonsense, Mattris, it really is. You're taking statements made by these producers and reading too much into them, assigning them to the sad, tired arguments that fly in the face of the only criticism that matters, those that are individualistic.

The consensus seems to be that TLJ and Solo were disappointments. I don't give a flying fuck about consensus or how these people are supposedly ruining Star Wars, because to me, these films have fulfilled a purpose. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Only the ones directed by George Lucas are canon anyway.

[Nick1Ø66 4,730]

Everything from Cloud City on is Han dreaming in perfect hibernation.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,345]

Why do ya'll keep responding to this guy?

 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I'd love to have a one-on-one dialogue with him in person. Get a couple of chairs, have a pitcher of water (preferrably strawberry-lemon-kiwi infused), and just have a heart to heart. Share our viewpoints, have some laughs, shake hands, and hopefully come out of it with a genuine sense of mutual respect and fulfillment. 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,345]

A man who whines without reason, cannot be reasoned with.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I bet it'd still be fun, regardless of what would happen.  But I think he lives in Texas, so why don't you cool down the waters first as our ambassador, Sev? 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else remember when it was just prequel bashers vs prequel gushers?

[Pellaeon 593]

Rotten Tomatoes audience rankings

(I know, SO WHAT THIS PROVES NOTHING, but, I find it kind of interesting.)

 

97% The Empire Strikes Back

96% Star Wars

95%

94% Return of the Jedi

93% The Mandalorian, Season 1

92%

91%

90%

89%

88%

87%

86% The Force Awakens; Rogue One; The Rise of Skywalker

85%

84%

83%

82%

81%

80%

79%

78%

77%

76%

75%

74%

73%

72%

71%

70%

69%

68%

67%

66% Revenge of the Sith

65%

64%

63% Solo

62%

61%

60%

59% The Phantom Menace

58%

57%

56% Attack of the Clones

55%

54%

53%

52%

51% The Battle for Endor

50%

49%

48%

47%

46%

45%

44% The Ewok Adventure

43% The Last Jedi

42%

41%

40%

39%

38%

37%

36%

35%

34%

33%

32%

31%

30%

29%

28%

27%

26%

25%

24%

23%

22%

21%

20%

19% The Holiday Special

[Holko 9,539]

There was a facebook page who admitted using bots to bring the Last Jedi's RT audience score down and were proud of it.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

7 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Anyone else remember when it was just prequel bashers vs prequel gushers?

 

Pepperidge Farm remembers. Pepperidge Farm also remembers this obscure gem from the late '80s! Not a major hit, but majorly groovy, with a neat beat that you just can't help swaying your body to! Hope this one is as good for you folks' hearts and feets as it is here for us at Pepperidge Farm!

 

 

[Pellaeon 593]

7 minutes ago, Holko said:

There was a facebook page who admitted using bots to bring the Last Jedi's RT audience score down and were proud of it.

 

They may have claimed so, but this was debunked by RottenTomatoes, which stated, “We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine. They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted. Aside from that, everything is normal and we don’t see any unusual activity. We looked at The Last Jedi compared to other blockbusters and it has been consistent with those past films.”     source

 

Of course, they would say that, but, I dunno, whatever, like I said, it proves nothing but it’s interesting. They can’t all be bots. I was more interested to see that TFA’s score has stayed very high (it has only dropped one percentage point since TLJ came out). I think calling it an “ANH remake” is a great misnomer that I hope looses its hold over time.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What is Kathleen Kennedy going on about? Women working the cameras? What's next? Voting? This has to be stopped.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

She can't do that! Put her in the kitchen!...or something!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ask not what your Star Wars can do for you. Ask what you can do for your Star Wars.