The Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread!

[GerateWohl 4,371]

If Shia hadn't pissed off Spielberg in the way he did he for sure would have been on board again.

 

The idea to invent his son in KotCS was good. But they should not have brought back Marion. I liked the priciple of Indy having a new love interest in every movie. Why suddenly trying to merge it together in one big story ark. That for me didn't really work. But for that is more Crystal Skull to blame than Dial of Destiny. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Dude, you literally created your own Indiana Jones thread because you couldn’t take criticism, yet you keep arguing with people in this thread. How hypocritical is that? :-) Just stop, please. 

 

 

 

 

Just stop interacting, as you yourself suggested.

[1977 1,743]

Serious question: should I watch DoD? I was going to, then I saw the teaser trailer and it's all been downhill since then. That iso score though, I need that.

[JTN 2,035]

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Just stop interacting, as you yourself suggested.

You first.

2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

Serious question: should I watch DoD? I was going to, then I saw the teaser trailer and it's all been downhill since then. That iso score though, I need that.

If you don’t want to get depressed by seeing one of the greatest movie icons deconstructed, humiliated and downgraded to a sad, old loser, I don’t recommend watching it. There are three great and one OK Indiana Jones films that honour the character. 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

4 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

Serious question: should I watch DoD? I was going to, then I saw the teaser trailer and it's all been downhill since then. That iso score though, I need that.

It’s not as terrible as JTW would have you believe, certainly better than the Star Wars sequels, but it’s not great either and you aren’t missing much other than some mild entertainment if you skip it. The action is competent, the climax is nuts then the film just kind of ends.

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

7 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

But I already bought the ring!

 

But she declined!

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Fyi Ford played almost the exact same character in CALL OF THE WILD - alcoholic recluse who's marriage broke up over the death of their son etc.

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

7 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

The idea to invent his son in KotCS was good. But they should not have brought back Marion. I liked the priciple of Indy having a new love interest in every movie. Why suddenly trying to merge it together in one big story ark. That for me didn't really work.

Spielberg was basically dragged onboard for KOTCS by Lucas, and I think in his mind it was really the last outing, so he saw it fitting to come full circle with ROTLA and reunite Indy with his true love. It also made sense for him to finally settle down, and put his womanizing ways behind him.

 

6 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

Serious question: should I watch DoD?

I say go ahead and scratch that itch. Treat it as a morbid curiosity.

 

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

The action is competent, the climax is nuts then the film just kind of ends.

A ringing endorsement. I could see Disney using this in their praise-anemic publicity. lol

 

 

 

[JTN 2,035]

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

A ringing endorsement. I could see Disney using this in their praise-anemic publicity. lol

Indeed, they should've used it in their official marketing, maybe more people would've seen it in theaters.

 

The first Indiana Jones is a genuine classic, some think the same about the second one, the third one is almost as good (some say as good, others that it's even better than the first one). 

Then we got the mediocre KotCS (with 66-year-old HF) and finally the pathetic DoD (with 80-year-old HF). 

Every Indiana Jones movie, just like Star Wars, used to be a real phenomenon, and even ToD, the only divisive film in the series (up until KotCS and of course DoD) was super successful, making $333 million on a budget of $28 million. Heck, even KotCS, the  - now second - worst film made great money, $790 million on a $185 million budget. People hated it, but went to see an Indiana Jones film directed by Steven Spielberg, produced and story by George Lucas. Sure, people thought they were getting a new Indiana Jones film after 19 years, after the sensational TLC, so they went to see it, just like they did TFA. But if word of mouth would've been so bad, the film wouldn't have made $790 million. 

If the audience had actually enjoyed DoD, they would've shown up in theaters, maybe even in spite of Spielberg's and Lucas' absence. But the truth is, most people who saw the film, hated it, and there was a bad word of mouth that killed the film's chances at the box office, and you can't blame the people for it. They just didn't like what they saw on screen. Oh yes, and people also hate Disney and Kathleen Kennedy, so staying away was also a kind of boycott against her, but that alone wouldn't explain why DoD failed so miserably. There are many reasons why it did. We have listed most of them in this and the other thread, so I'm not going to repeat them. Bottomline is, DoD should never have been made, and especially not like this. I like James mangold as a director, his films like Copland, Walking the Line or 3:10 to Yuma are very good. But his ego clouded his vision, and probably Disney's (Iger's and Kennedy's) interfering in the script derailed the film. 

There's no excuse for why Indy had to be turned into a TFA Han Solo clone, it has to be the woke direction Disney has been representing in recent years. It's inexcusable, a disgrace, and I was sorry to hear that HF was apparently OK with that direction. But I forgive him, because at the end of the day he was happy to play the role again, and he probably would've been happy if Helena had knocked Indy out every ten minutes. 

 

The ONLY thing that's working in DoD to me, is JW's score. Although my least favourite of the IJ scores, it's still a masterclass in scoring, and it's a damn JW Indiana Jones score, so I'm happy it exists. Too bad that the film it was written to, doesn't deserve it, but that's not news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

 

The ONLY thing that's working in DoD to me, is JW's score.

 

How can you say that's the only thing that works when you haven't seen the film?

[Chen G. 3,950]

13 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

But I already bought the ring!

 

Yeah, the Rhinedaughters would like to have a word with you about it...

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yeah, the Rhinedaughters would like to have a word with you about it...

 

Uh-oh.  I've never seen The Ring cycle, so I have no idea what I've accidentally gotten myself into.

[jacksparrow900 32]

It's funny the last two movies Harrison Ford was alive in 57 and 69 to experience that era and If Indy exist in our time does that mean that a young Harrison Ford exist. 

[Chen G. 3,950]

A stroke of genius would have been to push Dial of Destiny to 1981...

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

A stroke of genius would have been to push Dial of Destiny to 1981...

 

Tell me, friend. When did Chen G abandon reason for madness?

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

When did Chen G abandon reason for madness?

I think it's from trying to make sense of everything George Lucas has said about Star Wars. It can put any man over.

[1977 1,743]

I guess I can post this meme here then (didn't go down too well in one of the other threads) 🤣

 

On 22/05/2023 at 8:46 PM, JTWfan77 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

3 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

I guess I can post this meme here then (didn't go down too well in one of the other threads) 🤣

 

This is a safe space. Feel free to meme.

 

[JTN 2,035]

9 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

How can you say that's the only thing that works when you haven't seen the film?

 

 

Btw a lot of people who have seen the entire film, not just the first 20 minutes like what I suffered through, said that the only thing they enjoyed about the film was JW’s score. 
 

You don’t

have to watch an entire film to be able to tell if you like it or not or that in your opinion it’s good or bad. EVERYTHING I know, have seen or heard about Disneyana Jones and the Dial of Destiny feels wrong and meaningless. 
And again, @Jurassic Shark, please stop provoking me. You have your own little Indiana Jones thread, knock yourself out there. Or ask Helena. 

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

 

This is a safe space. Feel free to meme.

 

Absolutely!

1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

I guess I can post this meme here then (didn't go down too well in one of the other threads) 🤣

 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

Oh, so you've seen the prologue now. That's an improvement as least. Still, you don't have any grounds for saying the score is the only thing that works. You're reviewing something based on reading other reviews, not seeing the actual thing. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Oh, so you've seen the prologue now. That's an improvement as least. Still, you don't have any grounds for saying the score is the only thing that works. You're reviewing something based on reading other reviews, not seeing the actual thing. 

 

Well I've never had the shingles, but I'm pretty sure it sucks.

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

3 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Well I've never had the shingles, but I'm pretty sure it sucks.

 

It's actually great if you get it.

[Chen G. 3,950]

9 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I think it's from trying to make sense of everything George Lucas has said about Star Wars.

 

Just what he said about Star Wars? Pfft! I've gone back to short stories and class reports the man had given in the third grade!  I looked up his grandparents!

[JTN 2,035]

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Oh, so you've seen the prologue now. That's an improvement as least. Still, you don't have any grounds for saying the score is the only thing that works. You're reviewing something based on reading other reviews, not seeing the actual thing. 

If an Indiana Jones film can’t grip me during its first 20 minutes, instead makes me cringe, I’m not going to waste any more time on it, especially since I KNOW THE ENTIRE PLOT. AND IT SUCKS HARD. Harder than it is for you to understand to stop provoking, arguing with me or anyone who disagrees with you. You can shill for DoD in the enchantment thread you so wisely created, as you can see, I’m not commenting there. Please, man, just stop, I’m asking you as someone who actually likes you. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

47 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Just what he said about Star Wars? Pfft! I've gone back to short stories and class reports the man had given in the third grade!  

 

Everyone needs a hobby.

 

47 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 I looked up his grandparents!

 

Did they call the police?

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

30 minutes ago, JTW said:

Harder than it is for you to understand to stop provoking, arguing with me or anyone who disagrees with you.

 

You see the faults in others but not in yourself.

[JTN 2,035]

This is Indiana Jones.

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

8 hours ago, JTW said:

Btw a lot of people who have seen the entire film, not just the first 20 minutes like what I suffered through, said that the only thing they enjoyed about the film was JW’s score.

 

You saw the best part. So it's safe to say you would've hated the rest.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

I thought the first 20 minutes were entertaining enough. A nice little adventure and fun use of the technology. If it had been simply an Indy short instead of a prologue, done as a self-contained anniversary project or Disney+ Christmas special, it would have been fine. As it is, it's dragged down by the film it's attached to.

 

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

13 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I thought the first 20 minutes were entertaining. A nice little adventure dragged down by the film it was attached to, and a fun use of the technology. If it had been simply an Indy short film, done as a self-contained anniversary project or Disney+ Christmas special, it would have been brilliant.

 

 

 

I went in the theatre with a generous helping of goodwill and (guarded) optimism, and so allowed myself to get swept up in the prologue. And I was so optimistic that I even bought a ticket for a second viewing in advance.

 

Well, not wanting to waste it, I decided to just watch the prologue again, and found that on second viewing it falls apart and loses its effect.

 

I'll say it's competent, but just barely. And I'm not even talking about the de-aging.

[Edmilson 7,466]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

This is Indiana Jones.

 

Fixed.

[JTN 2,035]

13 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Fixed.

Apparently to you it is. 👍🏻

 

 

13 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Well, not wanting to waste it, I decided to just watch the prologue again, and found that on second viewing it falls apart and loses its effect.

 

I'll say it's competent, but just barely. And I'm not even talking about the de-aging.

Exactly. The entire concept of a de-aged Indiana Jones is off. I know that Ford is 80, so digitally de-aging him is something that immediately took me out of the experience. And honestly, the CGI is far from perfect. If you look at him, you see that it's fake. His facial expressions are off, and again, we know that it's a de-aged old HF acting like he was young. Oh and I forgot that they kept his old man-voice, another distraction. 

 

And the entire sequence was underwhelming. Boring gags, boring conversations, and a lackluster execution. When Mikkelsen gets punched in the face with that pole, if that happens even in an Indiana Jones film, should immediately kill a person. Remember the guy in Raiders who got chopped up by the propeller of the plane? Or the other guy who Indy threw out of the truck during the desert chase and the truck ran over him. They didn't survive. They were henchmen, but still, there are certain rules even in an Indiana Jones film. It's fantasy and Indy survives some serious shit through the series, but getting punched with an iron pole while riding on a train will tear your head off even in that universe. 

 

That de-aged sequence felt forced and nothing like an Indiana Jones film (it felt the closest to KotCS, which isn't a compliment by any means), and then cut to the "present" and we see Indiana Jones a broken, reaaally old man acting like the stereotypical old widower neighbour who knocks on the door and swings his baseball bat (why would he bring his bat with him if he knows that it's just a young kid? So stupid.) Remember the funky neighbour in Friends, Mr. Heckles? Ford reminded me of him. 

Why did they have to do that to Indiana effin Jones? It would have been enough to show some articles about Mutt's death, or the divorce papers, but why did they have to push it to turn Indy into Mr. Heckles, the crazy loser old guy? They even took away his house (I know, Marion got it), and made a drunk out of him, pouring liquor into his morning coffee. It's not a Swedish existential drama, it's Indiana Jones, for heaven's sake. 

 

So yes, seeing him as a drunk old loser, who after all those great adventures, having saved the world several times, finally getting the girl, having a son, loses everything, just because Bob Iger, Kathleen Kennedy and James Mangold thought it would make a good subvert our expectations-type of story for 21st century audiences who don't even know who Indiana Jones is. And those who do, like you and me, who grew up with Indy, can go f themselves. And they wonder why the film flopped hard. And of course, they blame everyone but themselves for ruining one of the greatest franchises and characters in film history. It's inexcusable. Poor George Lucas, little did he know when he sold his companies and IPs that his legacy would be destroyed one by one by the Walt Disney Company. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

 

Well, not wanting to waste it, I decided to just watch the prologue again, and found that on second viewing it falls apart and loses its effect.

As I’ve only seen the film once, I’ll take your word for it. Probably why it would have been better as a special.

[Bellosh 3,419]

3 hours ago, JTW said:

The entire concept of a de-aged Indiana Jones is off. I know that Ford is 80, so digitally de-aging him is something that immediately took me out of the experience. And honestly, the CGI is far from perfect. \

 

I've explained in another thread that de-aging/CGI Indy is antithetical to why the Indiana Jones film series was first created.  If they had the same technology back in '81 to make Indy CGI during his stunts, I have a strong feeling Lucas and Spielberg would have opted out, and kept that to the magical stuff, like the opening of the ark..

 

I was genuinely surprised by how Dial got a pass with it's prologue CGI, as I remember people hating the CGI in Crystal Skull --- outside the close up of the alien at the very end, that movie has pretty decent CGI.

 

My guess?  De-aging doesn't count to people who don't mind CGI?  I honestly have no idea.

[GerateWohl 4,371]

Watching deaged cgi-Indy was a little bit like watching the CGI-ed anniversary edition of E.T. Somehow a remembrance of the great movie from my teenage years, but still a little off somehow, and less enjoyable in a weird synthetic way.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

On 26/12/2023 at 7:32 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

Didn't Connery decline because the role was too insubstantial?

 

I thought that Connery had retired, after LXG?

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Watching deaged cgi-Indy was a little bit like watching the CGI-ed anniversary edition of E.T. Somehow a remembrance of the great movie from my teenage years, but still a little off somehow, and less enjoyable in a weird synthetic way.

 

Even if they perfect the deaging technology, it'll still feel weird to me. Which is why I'm in favour of recasting (e.g., Luke Skywalker).

 

I'm glad Spielberg saw the light and regretted the changes he made to 'E.T.', and now thinks old movies shouldn't be tinkered with.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

Just before Christmas, I got the DOD DVD from my local library. I need to return it, when the library re-opens, next Wednesday. I haven't seen it yet. After reading this thread, I'm not sure I want to 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

7 minutes ago, Slipperman9 said:

 

I thought that Connery had retired, after LXG?

 

He had, but they tried to lure him back in.

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

7 minutes ago, Slipperman9 said:

Just before Christmas, I got the DOD DVD from my local library. I need to return it, when the library re-opens, next Wednesday. I haven't seen it yet. After reading this thread, I'm not sure I want to 

 

Watch, if you dare!

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

Wait, do people still make DVDs for recent movies?

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

Only for the good ones. 

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Only for the good ones. 

Yep. Perusing the Walmart DVD bin should tell you that.

 

 

 

 

 

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

The moment the DoD prologue started showing cracks in the armor for me was the moment Voller brushed Indy against the roof of the tunnel.  If that moment were shot practically, it would've taken his hat off...  which means it has absolutely no place in an Indiana Jones film!

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

1 hour ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

The moment the DoD prologue started showing cracks in the armor for me was the moment Voller brushed Indy against the roof of the tunnel.  If that moment were shot practically, it would've taken his hat off...  which means it has absolutely no place in an Indiana Jones film!

 

And for those who cite the fridge in KOTCS as being ridiculous, I have yet to hear them explain how Voller could have survived that train fall that should've killed him...

[Groovygoth666 670]

Surprised people enjoyed the prologue. Might rewatch that again to remind myself of everything  wrong with it to do a thorough breakdown. 

 

53 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

 

And for those who cite the fridge in KOTCS as being ridiculous, I have yet to hear them explain how Voller could have survived that train fall that should've killed him...

 

What do you mean, anyone could walk this off 

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,794]

1 hour ago, Groovygoth666 said:

What do you mean, anyone could walk this off 

 

 

The filmmakers addressed this by putting that little scar on his forehead. lol

 

[JTN 2,035]

5 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

The moment the DoD prologue started showing cracks in the armor for me was the moment Voller brushed Indy against the roof of the tunnel.  If that moment were shot practically, it would've taken his hat off...  which means it has absolutely no place in an Indiana Jones film!

And if you’re pushed against concrete or bricks or whatever surface the tunnel was, at that speed, it would cause severe pain and tear off your leather jacket along with your skin. Look at Indy’s almost (e)motionless CGI face, and his jacket is undamaged. He’s like “yes, a little lower, please, that feels good, thanks”. How could Mangold approve that?  

[Groovygoth666 670]

47 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

The filmmakers addressed this by putting that little scar on his forehead. lol

 

I had to zoom in to find it, never noticed it in the film 😅. So he didn't walk away unscratched, just a slight bonk on the head and tumble from a speeding train gets Voller a scar, seems plausible to me 🙄. 

[JTN 2,035]

Voller, a few moments later: