Do You Still Download Music Illegally?

[Greg1138 3]

Saw programme about this last night, and am curious.....no need to post a reply and give reasons why/why not etc etc. Just interested as to how many, despite all the legal methods around, may still use Kazaa, eMule etc to illegally download music (not bothered about things like software etc). If you have NEVER downloaded music illegally - well, good for you! Check the "No!" option....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes to music, films and software.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I'll leave you to guess which option I've ticked, but I'll give a few of my feelings about the legal services/cds in stores in the UK. (this is a meaty post - read at your peril :roll: )

1. The typical price for a soundtrack CD in a UK store (not online) is about £13-16, or $22-27 which I'm sure you'll agree is seriously overpriced. I've never paid more than £8.99 in store, and £11 online (for a pretty rare CD)

2. Of all the online legal services I've tried through trials/promotions or free through coke cans, most of them returned no or few search results for any of the major composers, and only the very standard albums for JW.

3. The online services are still overpriced at between 69p and 99p per track. That's pretty much the same as what you'd pay per track for a CD, yet they don't have anything like the same costs, and seem to spend most of the time arguing how to split the profits between record companies & the stores, instead of thinking what the artist is getting.

4. The quality of legal files don't come close to true CD quality IMHO, and are protected so you can't do a damn thing with them, even edit them.

Apart from possibly feeling a bit better, what's the incentive to go from getting 320kb files I can edit/organize to my heart's content, to paying 99p per track for an ok quality file I can do little with?

There's also the concept of 'try before you buy', as anything you download and like, you can put on your wishlist to buy when you find it at a sensible price Record companies don't seem to understand that they're not making me pay for anything before I know if I like it (well they probably do, but if admitting that gets in the way of their precious profits.. )

The day I can buy a 320kb, unprotected (or lightly protected as most) track for maybe 10-30p (maybe adjusting for track length), I'll use the legal services. That's simply a reflection of what I perceive the costs and value to be.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yes, but only if the CD is so hard to find, rare even, that I'd have to travel the globe to find it. Otherwise, I buy CDs when I can.

[David Coscina 3]

With options like iTunes and download services like these, there really is no good reason to steal music- and that's what it is- stealing. I fyou like 1 song off of an album, then buy it for 99 cents for cryin' out loud. Personally, because I use both my PC and Mac for composing/recording music, I stay clear of sites that have free music downloads since they are usually rife with virus'.

[A24 4,338]

Yes to music, films and software.

If everyone was like Stefancos there would be no longer music, films or software available. This world has a problem: there are many Stefancosses in the world. Result: Music is almost dead. Film will probably follow (with Stefancos running up front, holding stake and hammer in his hand). The funny thing is that those Stefancosses are so small in character and weak in comprehension that they even take pride in doing these deeds (see testimony above).

If you want a future for that what you love the most, then please, don't be a Stefancos, nourish your artists, buy what you enjoy, enjoy what you buy.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Dean1700 4]

No. I have never done this.

Should I?

[jamesie 1]

Never, ever payed for a song I downloaded. Or short movie. I'll buy John Williams soundtracks... But I just download various songs from other albums... So I just don't pay.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I fyou like 1 song off of an album, then buy it for 99 cents for cryin' out loud..

I prefer my music to be decent quality and to have the ability to edit the track if I want. That's the problem with these services - not only were the companies very slow in embracing the technology, but they are also letting desire for huge profit get in the way of consumer freedom.

I'm buying CDs far more frequently now, and I bought both RotS and WotW very soon after release (on release for RotS) because I could download and preview them first. Scores simply are not a genre that I blindly trust - I always preview material before parting cash, but if I truly enjoy something I will always buy it. I downloaded Elfman's Charlie & Choco Factory a few weeks ago, didn't really like it and so I no longer have it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes to music, films and software.

If everyone was like Stefancos there would be no longer music, films or software available. This world has a problem: there are many Stefancosses in the world. Result: Music is almost dead. Film will probably follow (with Stefancos running up front, holding stake and hammer in his hand). The funny thing is that those Stefancosses are so small in character and weak in comprehension that they even take pride in doing these deeds (see testimony above).

If you want a future for that what you love the most, then please, don't be a Stefancos, nourish your artists, buy what you enjoy, enjoy what you buy.

----------------

Alex Cremers

Mr Cremers.

I never said that I downloaded often.

The greatest bulk of my collection is legit, storebought and paid for with money that i earned with blood, sweat and tears.

Except the porn, which i get for free...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yes I do. But not often.

- Marc, who has been buying a lot of CDs lately.

[A24 4,338]

Yes to music, films and software.

If everyone was like Stefancos there would be no longer music, films or software available. This world has a problem: there are many Stefancosses in the world. Result: Music is almost dead. Film will probably follow (with Stefancos running up front, holding stake and hammer in his hand). The funny thing is that those Stefancosses are so small in character and weak in comprehension that they even take pride in doing these deeds (see testimony above).

If you want a future for that what you love the most, then please, don't be a Stefancos, nourish your artists, buy what you enjoy, enjoy what you buy.

----------------

Alex Cremers

Mr Cremers.

I never said that I downloaded often.

The greatest bulk of my collection is legit, storebought and paid for with money that i earned with blood, sweat and tears.

Except the porn, which i get for free...

Then I take it all back ... but ... why did you say "Yes to music, films and software"? If this was Matlock you would be in jail for not defending yourself better.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Because I occasionally download music or films.

But usually if I really like it, i end up buying it on CD or DVD.

[David Coscina 3]

I agree that music downloads that are paid for should be 160kbps or even 192kbps to yield a better result but for pop songs or whatever I scarcely notice nor care about the quality. the ACC format that iTunes uses doesn't seem to suffer as much. You can use 128kbps and it sounds pretty good. I downloaded The Aviator from iTunes and I think it is great. I cannot hear any signs of audio artifacts or compression. War of the Worlds I likewise bought prior to the CD release because John Williams is a god and I had to hear it. I do find a bit of compression on that score hence I bought the CD (which I would have done anyhow since I am a Williams completist).

[Melange 446]

Do You Still Download Music Illegally?

When i get to the front of the 236 long queue, i'll let you know

Seriously though. No. 99% of music i want, i will buy. If i've ever gone onto one of those file sharing programs then it was to preview something, and decide whether or not i want to buy it later or not. For me, that is a good compromise (and i dont mind if say 2.30 of a 3.00 song was only shared). Because i dont keep naff quality downloads of music. I prefer to get the properly pressed Cd instead. Cd's are a ripoff, i know. But downloading for free, wont change that. Infact, it could backfire and make it worse. Prices could rise instead.

Melange - Who just wrote an opinion, above (there it is..above you))

[ridan 0]

The only times I ever download is id the track(s) are rare, or if I stumble upon it. And I download previews clips occasionally, but it's just too hard to decide to buy a score from them.

[Henry B 50]

Occasionally I will download an MP3 or two. For example, I was talking to my friend about how "the Gladiator soundtrack sucks," and he said, "HUH?! Why don't you listen to it?" I told him I would download any "song" he chose. My friend recommended "The Battle." Sure enough, a synthesized rip-off of "Mars, the Bringer of War."

I almost always buy music and films, though. With the music, I'm a huge audiophile, can barely stand having something in lower quality than 192 kbps MP3, but 128 kbps is typical of Kazaa, Limewire, and such programs.

[Trent B 337]

The only movie I ever downloaded is Episode III....enough to tie me over until the offical DVD release this fall and once I get that the bootleg goes bye bye...

I always will buy a DVD....

As far as music goes, I only download full complete scores that I know will most likely not end up getting released...I always buy OST's. As others have stated though IF I can't find an original soundtrack to something then yes I will download it...

However IF the full complete scores I download do end up getting released ligitly then I'll buy them in a heart beat since I would perfer to have original physical discs than CD-R discs...

Just my $.02 worth..

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Only movie I've ever downloaded was FotR. And in piss-poor quality too. I saw it two times theatrically on its first run, a third time in a marathon showing, and I have both versions on DVD.

[King Mark 3,631]

Only music I download is clips of unreleased Williams music whenever they pop up .

K.M.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Occasionally, but it's pretty rare. If it's any kind of significant release or something I want to have for my "collection," I definitely purchase it.

Ray Barnsbury

[CYPHER 1]

I may have downloaded, like, about 5 audio tracks in my entire lifetime. I'm a pretty straight-and-narrow kinda guy, especially when it comes to the internet. Still, I will agree with richuk that many CDs are a bloody rip off. Then again, you just need to know where to look and a little hunting will throw up some great bargains.

CYPHER

PS - Drax, I love your Blues Bros. signature.

[orrakul 0]

It's still legal in Canada - but, no I don't download songs for free from the internet.

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

I think it's a greater sin to go without music that I want than to download it from P2P.

Result: Music is almost dead. Film will probably follow (with Stefancos running up front, holding stake and hammer in his hand).

Pish posh! I've downloaded a LOT of Jerry Goldsmith in the past year. While it might not be admirable, I don't think it's an insult, but a statement of appreciation. Through hearing more of his music, I'm able to appreciate his legacy more. While he probably didn't despise the figures he earned, I think he'd want to be remembered more for his music, not how much we have to pay for it.

Appreciation is what keeps music alive, not money. Artists are used to the starving thing, but poverty doesn't make their souls poor in creativity.

[A24 4,338]

I think it's a greater sin to go without music that I want than to download it from P2P.  

Result: Music is almost dead. Film will probably follow (with Stefancos running up front, holding stake and hammer in his hand).

Pish posh! I've downloaded a LOT of Jerry Goldsmith in the past year. While it might not be admirable, I don't think it's an insult, but a statement of appreciation. Through hearing more of his music, I'm able to appreciate his legacy more. While he probably didn't despise the figures he earned, I think he'd want to be remembered more for his music, not how much we have to pay for it.

Appreciation is what keeps music alive, not money. Artists are used to the starving thing, but poverty doesn't make their souls poor in creativity.

Am I hearing this correct? Artists should not be paid? You want artists to starve?! You think they will become better artists thanks to people who feel they need to show their appreciation by downloading everything for free? You think Williams or Goldsmith were starving when they wrote your favorite music?

It's a very big erroneous conception, a romantic fantasy, to think composers write their best things in the gutter. Artists also like to have bread on the table, some means of life, that ensures them to be able to continue that what they love doing the most, namely, their art.

An artist like Jerry Goldsmith is still is making money when he's dead (copyright doesn't die with them). This money goes now to the relatives he left behind. I'm sure that his wife and kids respect your appreciation, but they would respect you even more if you paid for it.

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Alex Cremers

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

It's a very big erroneous conception, a romantic fantasy, to think composers write their best things in the gutter.

Look at Lucas before Star Wars.

Why should the Goldsmiths respect my appreciation for Jerry's work only if I paid for it? What the hell are other artists' families supposed to do? Should the van Gogh family get pissed at me if I go to the library, take a color photocopy of Sunflowers, take it home, and hang it on my wall? Should they want my head on a platter if, by putting that on my wall, it inspires me to go out and do some good for the world out of the gratification it gives me?

If you didn't live in Europe, I'd say the RIAA's gotten to you, man.

Jerry wrote the music for people to enjoy, I enjoy it. If it's easier to buy on CD, I'll buy it. If it's easier to download, I'll download. I just want the gold.

[A24 4,338]

Look at Lucas before Star Wars.

What about him? And what does this have to do with "starving"? George Lucas wasn't starving before Star Wars, far from it. Look elsewhere to explain the difference in quality in his later work.

Why should the Goldsmiths respect my appreciation for Jerry's work only if I paid for it?

That's the way it works. His ouevre is a great part of the legacy that his family inherited. Like I said, appreciation is fine but what if I come to your house and steal all your money? Would it make you feel better if I left a note saying how great I think you are? "Yes, baker, I steal your bread but I truly appreciate its taste." That might sound like a compliment but he would appreciate it more if you liked his bread and paid for it. That's how it works. If you want things to keep working you have to pay for them. If John Williams didn't get paid for his scores he would not be making them. In order to feed his wife and kids, he would teach at some college and write twelve-tone music in his spare time.

 Should the van Gogh family get pissed at me if I go to the library, take a color photocopy of Sunflowers, take it home, and hang it on my wall?  

That's a bad example. Yes, it's perfectly legal to take a photograph of a painting and hang it on your wall. Nobody gets hurt.

Jerry wrote the music for people to enjoy, I enjoy it.

Another misconception, Jerry wrote the music so he could write music and make a living out of it.

If it's easier to buy on CD, I'll buy it.  If it's easier to download, I'll download.  I just want the gold.

In that case, you are the artist's doom. You steal his bread. And it's clear that you are looking for excuses so you won't have to feel bad about it. But all you are doing is taking advantage of the situation. You think, "let other people pay for it". You see something and you take it without thinking about the consequences. So be it, I'm just glad not everybody is like you.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[publicist 4,643]

With options like iTunes and download services like these, there really is no good reason to steal music

Well, good luck with iTunes Europe, then. Around 3% of my collection i can find in the store, apart from that...zilch!

I think most people here use eMule and the like

a) for all ghastly kinds of porn:)

B) rare music for which they would have to search really hard

Apart from that, i still think it's a viable (and good) method of showing mega-companies the finger. For instance, i have to pay 18€ for a score album like 'Cinderella Man'. If i take into account that i don't care for 80% of it's content, that's a bit stiff.

The industry just hasn't reacted accordingly (and no, i don't mean crying for law enforcement), iTunes, as usually, was a clever idea from The Apple. Not Universal, Sony, Bertelsmann. They thought they could milk the cow forever.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

(and no, i don't mean crying for law enforcement)

"The law is crazy!"

[Lurker 5]

Alex, don't you have Monsignor on CD? How did you get that?

Neil

[gkgyver 1,645]

Yes.

If I stumble over a rare CD that's not too high priced, I'll buy it.

If I can't find a (rare) CD, I'll download it.

I never download soundtracks that I could easily get in my preferred stores.

There's nothing like holding a brand new (mostly) soundtrack in your hands, but if you can't get it somewhere else, go and download it!

For me, that's not anywhere near "stealing", since I have no second option. It's not like "I don't want to pay, so I'll get it someplace else", THAT would be stealing.

[A24 4,338]

Alex, don't you have Monsignor on CD?  How did you get that?

Neil

It's a bootleg CD.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

no

[Lurker 5]

Alex, don't you have Monsignor on CD?  How did you get that?

Neil

It's a bootleg CD.

Did you pay for it? And if so, did Williams get any of that money?

Neil

[fommes 153]

For that matter, Alex, don't you have The Missouri Breaks, too? The legit CD?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Very ostute question Neil.

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

What about him? And what does this have to do with "starving"? George Lucas wasn't starving before Star Wars' date=' far from it. Look elsewhere to explain the difference in quality in his later work.[/quote']

No, I choose the starving artist theory. He wasn't starving, but he certainly wasn't reknowned like his buddy Steven Spielberg. I don't think AG saw the same kind of success as Jaws. Might've been a better movie, but it didn't make the impact. How many people hum Jaws as opposed to "At the Hop"?

Why should the Goldsmiths respect my appreciation for Jerry's work only if I paid for it?

That's the way it works. His ouevre is a great part of the legacy that his family inherited. Like I said' date=' appreciation is fine but what if I come to your house and steal all your money? Would it make you feel better if I left a note saying how great I think you are? "Yes, baker, I steal your bread but I truly appreciate its taste." That might sound like a compliment but he would appreciate it more if you liked his bread and paid for it. That's how it works. If you want things to keep working you have to pay for them. If John Williams didn't get paid for his scores he would not be making them. In order to feed his wife and kids, he would teach at some college and write twelve-tone music in his spare time. [/quote']

When you quit talking out of your @$$, I might respond. But that would mean you'd have to quit arguing and I don't think that's a concession you're willing to make.

Should the van Gogh family get pissed at me if I go to the library' date=' take a color photocopy of Sunflowers, take it home, and hang it on my wall? [/quote']

That's a bad example. Yes, it's perfectly legal to take a photograph of a painting and hang it on your wall. Nobody gets hurt.

No, but the van Gogh family's "right to earn money" is infringed upon. You're basically implying that I can copy van Gogh's work, but not Jerry's. Somehow I'm not affecting the van Gogh family, but I'm putting Goldsmith's family out on the street. Something's not adding up here, Alex.

Jerry wrote the music for people to enjoy' date=' I enjoy it.[/quote']

Another misconception, Jerry wrote the music so he could write music and make a living out of it.

Are you an artist at all? Wait, you don't need to be. Anybody can tell you that any composer writes music for people to enjoy or else nobody will listen. How many people do you know who listen to music they don't like, when they could listen to the stuff they do like?

If it's easier to buy on CD' date=' I'll buy it. If it's easier to download, I'll download. I just want the gold. [/quote']

In that case, you are the artist's doom. You steal his bread. And it's clear that you are looking for excuses so you won't have to feel bad about it. But all you are doing is taking advantage of the situation. You think, "let other people pay for it". You see something and you take it without thinking about the consequences.

Hey, Einstein. I don't see composers starving that don't get their scores released at all, do you? Yes, I am letting other people pay for it. They're called movie producers.

So be it, I'm just glad not everybody is like you.

Feelings mutual.

[A24 4,338]

If it bears the name of John Williams and it's officially not available, then I buy it. No, that's a lie, I even buy bootlegs of music that's officially released. That's the difference, Neil, fans buy everything. Are you suggesting that I should buy the legit CD of Monsignor? With pleasure, bring it on! I've been waiting for twenty years to buy Monsignor via the regular market. I can't help it if things are not available. Buying something that does not exist through regular sources does not hurt anybody. The bootleg market is a specialized, tres petite niche market. It's targeted towards fans who are willing to buy everything there is to buy from their favorite artists. This is not the same as the millions and millions illegal copies of existing CDs from Russia, Taiwan or Thailand, which I condemn even more fiercely than free downloading. Apples and oranges, Neil, two different atmospheres. You can't compare a fan's maniacal actions to the blatant refusal from millons of people to pay for music.

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Alex Cremers

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I dont feel guilty about owning scores that got OOP years before i became a William's collector (or even well before i was born)

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

If it bears the name of John Williams and it's officially not available, then I buy it.

Yes, but that money goes to the bootleggers, not the maestro himself, n'est-ce pas? What was all that you said about paying for music out of respect and appreciation? How do you think Williams and his family feel about you giving money they deserve to someone else?

That's the difference, Neil, fans buy everything. Are you suggesting that I should buy the legit CD of Monsignor? With pleasure, bring it on!

Caught red-handed.

Buying something that does not exist through regular sources does not hurt anybody.

Yes, because the composers never intended to get money from it and a middle man wrongly gets paid for it.

It's targeted towards fans who are willing to buy everything there is to buy from their favorite artists. This is not the same as the millions and millions illegal copies of existing CDs from Russia, Taiwan or Thailand, which I condemn even more fiercely than free downloading.

Oooh...you condemn something. I'm really scared!

Apples and oranges, Neil, two different atmospheres. You can't compare a fan's maniacal actions to the blatant refusal from millons of people to pay for music.

Downloading music for free might not be admirable, but at least I stand by what I say.

[A24 4,338]

Hey, Einstein. I don't see composers starving that don't get their scores released at all, do you? Yes, I am letting other people pay for it. They're called movie producers.

You fail to make a simple sum. If we all follow your example, there would be no more soundtracks for us to buy. For you see, what's the use of releasing CDs when no one is buying them? Geez, what is it that you don't understand about this? Or am I talking out of my a$! again? :roll:

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Alex Cremers

[Lurker 5]

Alex, you're being hypocritical here. No one ever said what they were downloading. You assumed it was material available legitimately on CD. I don't recall anyone saying what it was they were downloading, you just jumped the gun and felt like being the moral one, yet you buy bootleg CDs, which is incredibly foolish. Why should some jerk profit from an album that isn't available when you can download a boot for free?

Neil

[Trumpeteer 302]

Never have and never will.

[A24 4,338]

Why should the Goldsmiths respect my appreciation for Jerry's work only if I paid for it?

That's the way it works. His ouevre is a great part of the legacy that his family inherited. Like I said' date=' appreciation is fine but what if I come to your house and steal all your money? Would it make you feel better if I left a note saying how great I think you are? "Yes, baker, I steal your bread but I truly appreciate its taste." That might sound like a compliment but he would appreciate it more if you liked his bread and paid for it. That's how it works. If you want things to keep working you have to pay for them. If John Williams didn't get paid for his scores he would not be making them. In order to feed his wife and kids, he would teach at some college and write twelve-tone music in his spare time. [/quote']

When you quit talking out of your @$$, I might respond. But that would mean you'd have to quit arguing and I don't think that's a concession you're willing to make.

If this is all you have to say, I think you are ignoring the problem you're causing.

[A24 4,338]

Why should some jerk profit from an album that isn't available when you can download a boot for free?

Even better!

But I don't think this is really the issue here. I made my point clear that not paying for music is hurting the business. If it's answered with, "I let others pay for my music", or, "I don't pay for the picture of my Van Gogh painting either", then I'm inclined to believe we're not talking about boots.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

The issue here is you dug yourself into a hole, my friend. "No, no. Dig up, stupid!"

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Please Daniel, watch your language.

We can at least behave like civilised people.

[Lurker 5]

Some random Alexcremers quotes from this thread.

If you want things to keep working you have to pay for them. If John Williams didn't get paid for his scores he would not be making them.

You see something and you take it without thinking about the consequences. So be it, I'm just glad not everybody is like you.

If it bears the name of John Williams and it's officially not available, then I buy it. No, that's a lie, I even buy bootlegs of music that's officially released.

Buying something that does not exist through regular sources does not hurt anybody. The bootleg market is a specialized, tres petite niche market. It's targeted towards fans who are willing to buy everything there is to buy from their favorite artists.

You can't compare a fan's maniacal actions to the blatant refusal from millons of people to pay for music.

And just for fun, I'll point out that this thread was started with the statement, "Just interested as to how many, despite all the legal methods around, may still use Kazaa, eMule etc to illegally download music". You see Alex, you're willing to condemn everyone who has downloaded music illegally, when you have purchased bootleg material. That's even worse, since someone then is profitting. I would be thrilled if the downloads killed off the bootleggers. Would you object to that?

Perhaps this thread should expand and not limit itself to just downloading but should look at acquiring any music illegally which is the real heart of the matter. Obviously, you Alex would have to be lumped into that category, too. So please remember, when you point your finger at someone, three fingers point back at you.

Neil

[A24 4,338]

The issue here is you dug yourself into a hole, my friend.  "No, no.  Dig up, stupid!"

I'm not in a hole. Like I said, unlike you, I pay for my music. The few bootleg in my possesion did not hurt the composer. You, on the other hand, choose not to pay because, according to your own words, artists don't want money and they compose better when they starve (like it's their ultimate wish). That's your motivation for downloading free music. You thieve and you rob because you feel artists don't need to eat. All you care about is to selfishly "take the gold". You and the millions like you don't care (or don't realize) that it hurts the business, a business of which the artists are the most important part of. Don't think you're only hurting the suits. But if I try to point that out, you try to hold strong in your thievery behind cheap one-liners with words like pish posh, a$$ and stupid.

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Alex Cremers

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Very good Alex, now answer Neil's last post too.