Hans Zimmer's Man Of Steel

[Brónach 1,302]

The thing with music is that, being music, it works as music. If it doesn't even do that, if it doesn't have the basic musical characteristic of being music, then what is it? Proto-music? Pseudo-music? Some sort of experimental noise?

Although I don't believe for a second that Zimmer will be experimental here or do anything fresh. That isn't judging, by the way. That's prediction.

[Jay 37,368]

I will listen to the whole CD on spotify when it shows up there. But boy did the samples not impress me.

[KK 3,307]

The thing with music is that, being music, it works as music. If it doesn't even do that, if it doesn't have the basic musical characteristic of being music, then what is it? Proto-music? Pseudo-music? Some sort of experimental noise?

Although I don't believe for a second that Zimmer will be experimental here or do anything fresh. That isn't judging, by the way. That's prediction.

None of what I heard in the samples sound fresh. At the very least, Batman and Inception received unique sounds to some degree, but these samples just sound like modern Zimmer's droning with loud drums (playing his same, overused rhythmic meters).

[publicist 4,643]

But again, a huge percentage of this board will see it as their duty to buy, re-buy and listen ad infinitum to this only because it's attached to a loud blockbuster movie. Ach...

[Brónach 1,302]

Upon listening to the samples I don't think this will merit this amount of discussion at all. I like the Look to the Stars sample.

Anything awesome out there to talk about? I've lost complete track of whatever modern film scoring might be offering that's cool, outside some very few people I like (who I still don't follow consistently at all).

[Jay 37,368]

So what's more likely - that this score has a strong main theme that coincidentally didn't make it into any of the samples, or that this score has no strong main theme?

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Is it considered out of fashion these to write melodies? Is it crude. To write themes to represent people and places or ideas. To have rythm or flow in your music, or development and counterpoint, orchestral color?

Has Zimmer ever written a fully symphoic score with many themes and developement and resolution? With orchestral lushbess and beauty.

MOS just sounds loud.

[Brónach 1,302]

So what's more likely - that this score has a strong main theme that coincidentally didn't make it into any of the samples, or that this score has no strong main theme?

I think Mr. Room has passed on that.

[Quintus 5,399]

I need to hear it with a film.

Karol

Modern music makers' failure in a nutshell.

I need to listen to the samples, but what's the difference? Koray will say you can't judge the score based on samples, and when the first impression is solidified by the whole album, he'll say we aren't open-minded enough.

It's a failure if a film score has to be heard with the film it was written for?

And yes, you cannot judge a score based on samples, that'd be like judging an entire movie based on the trailer.

Trying to decide if you sound like a broken record with this or just all played out.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Is it considered out of fashion these to write melodies? Is it crude. To write themes to represent people and places or ideas. To have rythm or flow in your music, or development and counterpoint, orchestral color?

Has Zimmer ever written a fully symphoic score with many themes and developement and resolution? With orchestral lushbess and beauty.

MOS just sounds loud.

He has, just not recently.

And certainly not entirely by himself.

[Hook1991 10]

I will listen to the whole CD on spotify when it shows up there. But boy did the samples not impress me.

I second this... I will say the cover looks absolutely awesome though. Here's to hoping the score is as cool as the cover art.

[Delorean90 42]

There were things I liked in the samples (that I heard--many of them are down :/ ), and interestingly it is the quieter material that is standing out. "Look to the Stars," as Chaac pointed out, and the solo in "Krypton's Last" were both effective. "DNA" was the exception as far as louder material; for some reason I enjoyed that little figure he had going on.

I agree that the problem (as far as we can tell from 30-second samples) seems to be the continued lack of...not necessarily just themes even, but a sense of a nuanced approach to the thing. It still feels like so many dull blows to the head. It seems like Zimmer decides on the mood and color and then decides to apply those with thick brushes, and the result is severely diminishing returns.

All that said, I do suspect it'll be a similar case to the Batman films: I'll be able to roll with it more or less when I see the film, sometimes I may even enjoy it on some level, but every now and then I'll just find myself thinking, "Damn! That film could've been THAT MUCH MORE amazing with a more carefully crafted score."

Time will tell.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Um, the trailer is supposed to sell the whole movie. If after three trailers you don't want to see it, hey, it tried and failed, and you save your money. Perhaps badmouthing the film without seeing it first is illogical, but it's up to the buyer what he pays to see. Likewise, Hans Zimmer will not starve if the majority of JWFanners refuse to buy his album based on the samples.

But I'm not talking about buying a movie ticket or buying a CD, I'm talking about judging something without sufficient grounds to do so. If you saw three movie trailers and went "Nah I'll pass," there's nothing wrong with that. However, if you see the trailers for To The Wonder, for example, and then say, "This is trash it's just like all of Malick's other films" well then you're forming an illegitimate opinion.

I need to hear it with a film.

Karol

Modern music makers' failure in a nutshell.

I need to listen to the samples, but what's the difference? Koray will say you can't judge the score based on samples, and when the first impression is solidified by the whole album, he'll say we aren't open-minded enough.

It's a failure if a film score has to be heard with the film it was written for?

And yes, you cannot judge a score based on samples, that'd be like judging an entire movie based on the trailer.

Trying to decide if you sound like a broken record with this or just all played out.

I've discussed both of those matters before, yes, but isn't that really only reactionary to all the talk that just loops on this forum? Take note that I've never commented on the music of Man Of Steel in any qualitative form. I'm simply addressing people's inherent dismissal of something based on assumption and speculation.

[Brónach 1,302]

But I'm not talking about buying a movie ticket or buying a CD, I'm talking about judging something without sufficient grounds to do so. If you saw three movie trailers and went "Nah I'll pass," there's nothing wrong with that. However, if you see the trailers for To The Wonder, for example, and then say, "This is trash it's just like all of Malick's other films" well then you're forming an illegitimate opinion.

You'd be basing yourself in Malick's other films that you didn't like. Why would it be illegitimate? Granted someone might surprise you, but we aren't going with nothing here.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It's illegitimate because you haven't seen the film?

[Brónach 1,302]

No. The author element is still present.

Besides, I shouldn't need to see the film. I'm talking about music here.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The same principle applies. If you haven't heard the score, you cannot comment on its quality. It's quite simple.

[Wojo 2,453]

If you saw three movie trailers and went "Nah I'll pass," there's nothing wrong with that. However, if you see the trailers for To The Wonder, for example, and then say, "This is trash it's just like all of Malick's other films" well then you're forming an illegitimate opinion.

That's fair. I can't honestly say I've ever seen a Malick, but I wouldn't dismiss them as trash. I just don't think any of them interest me and I haven't gone out of my way to look for them.

[Brónach 1,302]

The same principle applies. If you haven't heard the score, you cannot comment on its quality. It's quite simple.

What if I'm not commenting on its actual quality but on what I think I can expect? It's like saying "oh that sucks" on a trailer. Cue someone saying "you can't know that!", I know I can't know that exactly, but I have my own taste and I have a rough idea if I'll probably like something or not, barring surprises.

I'll comment on its "quality" if I listen to it.

This just became a silly conversation.

[Red 75]

There's an atmospheric, alien quality to a lot of the samples that I kind of dig. It works with the emphasis on the Kryptonian stuff that the movie seems to have. As far as actual melodies go I couldn't really make out a single one, with the possible exception of the piano notes in "Sent Here for a Reason". Whatever was going on in "Goodbye My Son" sounded like it had some focus to it and the violin solo in "Krypton's Last" was pleasantly surprising. Unfortunately the action music leaves much to be desired. It seemed to be exceedingly loud just for the sake of being loud.

Overall it sounds better than I thought it would and I'm sure it will work in the film. Zimmer's scores are usually serviceable in that way.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Heard the samples.

Going to cry into a corner now.

[Jay 37,368]

The samples appear to have been removed from Amazon.com. Anyone know if they are available anywhere else?

[Trent B 337]

It would probably service better in a different movie but for a Superman movie? Good god...and A LOT of you said that Ottman did a bad job for Superman Returns...

[Jay 37,368]

So I got an advanced copy of this most controversial of scores and, well, what can I say... I both like and hate it. In most cases I enjoy Zimmer's work, as it usually offers up a fun listening experience, although, and I'll admit, it's not usually a refreshing one, but that's not a bad thing at all. MOS is not an exception, as the music seems to easily touch upon the surface of what the film might call for, which is to aurally coat it with some sentimentality and then fill it to brimming with the appropriate amounts of propulsive excitement and an edgy sense of sheer daringness. To this degree it succeeds very well, but the one thing that seems to be missing, however, is what makes the character of SUPERMAN so definable and that is something that truly screams heroism or just plain heroics.

In most cases there will be the inevitable comparison to John Williams' iconic and definitively defining score to SUPERMAN and there is no way around that at all. I am trying not to do that, but, I'll admit, it is hard to separate from what Williams has accomplished because he dug in deep and far surpassed what the 1978 film needed and drove right into the heart and soul of the character and, thereby, created something that was as characteristic, if not more so, as the letter "S" on SUPERMAN'S chest. And I guess that this is what it comes down to; does Zimmer's music meet that same demand? No it doesn't. At least for me it misses the mark by a huge margin, as it just doesn't feel like what I'd imagine the soul of SUPPERMAN to feel like. It's doesn't make me know him or want to get to know him or to know the burden a character like him should feel or the hope that he'd give to us more normal folks and that is a real miss fire for me. But these are all things that I would also associate with his work on BATMAN, as he only shows us what we on screen and then punches it up a 100 notches or so.

As a musical listening experience, devoid of it being attached to the film, like BATMAN, it is one hell of a ride and for that I certainly enjoy the music. It just doesn't say SUPERMAN, but if you're looking for that, then you'll just need to go put Williams' scores, as they quite literally say that and much more.

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[filmmusic 1,829]

I just listened to the samples..

I think it's safe enough to talk eventually of a soundscape and not music..

[Jay 37,368]

Samples are back online here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPoyumkRv78

[gkgyver 1,645]

Sorry, but if the samples are any indication to the rest of the score, I'd say there is more listening pleasure in Dark Knight.

[filmmusic 1,829]

Does anyone know if he actually uses any live instruments of the symphony orchestra (i mean besides the drums?)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Who needs instruments when you have a computer?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Does anyone know if he actually uses any live instruments of the symphony orchestra (i mean besides the drums?)

I don't think someone would notice the difference.

[KK 3,307]

He'd just drown the orchestra recording with synth mock ups anyways.

[TownerFan 4,983]

From what I know, a score like Angels & Demons had only strings recorded live. All the rest is sampled or electronic.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Strange, as I find that a really decent score.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Perhaps because synths don't automatically mean something is bad? Zimmer used orchestra and electronics in Angels & Demons to represent science vs religion.

[Ollie 1,059]

Again, I can't believe anyone is surprised by what they are hearing.

Seriously.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm not. I just hoped Zimmer would do at least something relatively relatable for Superman, like, you know, use a trumpet once in a while.

Fuck!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Why does a trumpet represent Superman?

[Ollie 1,059]

I'll tell you what Superman needs.

He's gotta flavor and that flavor is cowbell!!!!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Why does a trumpet represent Superman?

Because Superman should have at least a slightly heroic touch, and low brass farts already represent anything, from Inception to Batman?

Fuck, why am I even talking to you anymore?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Why does a trumpet represent Superman?

Because Superman should have at least a slightly heroic touch, and low brass farts already represent anything, from Inception to Batman?

Fuck, why am I even talking to you anymore?

Good question. You insinuated that a trumpet is a necessary instrument for the Superman character. I simply asked why you thought so.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

There are good scores in this world Mr. BloodBoal and they are worth fighting for!

This might indeed not be one of them.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Why does a trumpet represent Superman?

If not a trumpet, at least something heroic. Nothing in any of those clips said to me... 'Superhero'.

The only thing I identify with Zimmer at the moment is either Inception-style 'durnnnn durnnnnn', or fairly pedestrian melodies in a power anthem style. I really want to see him break out of that and do something more colourful.

[filmmusic 1,829]

I think it would be great if the "Lion King Zimmer", had scored "Man of Steel"!

[KK 3,307]

I certainly would have been more interested to hear that. Modern Zimmer seems to be able to make any concept, whether it be a religious epic or the greatest superhero of all time, musically boring.

[Brónach 1,302]

The samples of the score have made me loose lose a bit of interest in the film.

[Jay 37,368]

Lose.

[gkgyver 1,645]

"Zimmer also didn't want to do "another really dark" superhero movie. "Everything's tinged with irony and sarcasm and bitterness and darkness these days," he said. But this Superman is something lighter, he said, "celebrating everything that was good and fine about America," such as small towns "where people don't lock their doors, neighbors get together, and families are families."

What a joke.

[Brónach 1,302]

Lose.

Right.